Jesus Christ: A Real Person Or A Psychedelic Mushroom?

[yordan 10]

yordan are you trying to imply that Jesus' was

No, I was just telling that saying "this guy did not exist because what people saw was impossible" is a false paradox. This is not really impossible, so this does not prove that this guy did not exist.Maybe he really existed and we must find a kind of explanation of what he did, or maybe he did not exist, but the non-existence is not proven by such kind of argument.

[dangerdan 0]

Ah, I see the point your making about the false paradox. You say "This is not really impossible, so this does not prove that this guy did not exist." but by the very same logic it is inconcluvsive proof either way. The fact the miracles he 'performed' in your view are 'possible' does not confirm that the event (s) happened or that Jesus' exists.Ultimately, it was over 2000 years ago now, so I do not think we will ever get a definitive answer to this, unless of course he comes again as is prophecized.

[yordan 10]

Even if he comes again, you cannot be sure that he is himself. Exactly as I am back to this topic but I could be somebody else.

[dangerdan 0]

A very good point yordan (if that is you ). The "second coming" would be no more proof of the biblically referenced Jesus than the Bible account in itself.It appears to me there are potentially two issues being discussed here.Firstly, as the title says, whether or not Jesus was a real person. And secondly, what connection, if any, the Christian church has to psychedelic mushrooms or other substances.Indigenous peoples all over the world use shamanic rituals, often involve psychedelics, to transcend this world into the spirit world and view, what are in my opinion mere hallucinations, what could be interpreted as miracles.

[yordan 10]

It's a miracle only if the people who did not use the mushrooms feel the effect of a given phenomenum.If a guy needs mushrooms in order to walk on water, and if I see him while I'm in a normal state, it's a paranormal situation.While I am sleeping, if I see something strange, it could be simply an effect of my own dreams.

[dangerdan 0]

The point is that the affected only THINKS they are walking on water, they may even see it. But to an outsider not high on mushrooms it would definitely not appear that he was walking on water at all!

[yordan 10]

You know, I started joking on a very serious subject. The mean subject is indeed a matter of faith. I just started discussing on some detail points, on false ways of trying to demonstrate things, with arguments interleaving which, from a pure logics point of view, were false.From a logical point of view, if a sentence says "this is always verified", simply finding on example where it's not verified is enough for demonstrating that this sentence is false.However, the opposite is not so easy. If a sentence says "this is sometimes not verified", finding an example where it's verified does not prove that the sentence is false.That's all, and I started looping about that kind of arguments, which deeply have nothing to do with the main subject of this post. That's why I would like to apologize for own pollution of this topic.RegardsYordan

[dangerdan 0]

No need for apologies yordan! You just gave this topic an epistemological slant!

 

Epistemology is the study of knowledge and truth and in particular how we can say for sure that anything is true.

 

There are essentially two types of knowledge according to epistemology a priori and a posteriori.

 

A posteriori is knowledge that is known by experience. Example our knowledge and assertion that the sun will rise tomorrow is rooted in the empirical evidence that it has done on every day that has preceeded it.

 

A priori is knowledge that is known independently of experience and is therefore said to be more 'reliable'.

 

The key issue here is that any concept of Jesus or belief in him is only based on empiricism that says he exists and would therefore be a posteriori knowledge. It is the extent to which you trust this type of knowledge that determines faith. (I just about have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow...)

[iGuest 3]

Either wayJesus Christ: A Real Person Or A Psychedelic Mushroom?

Personally I abhor religion.They all take the same basic principles and fight over whose version is better.

Also, personally, I don't believe Jesus ever existed. But I do believe in what Jesus stands for. Not Christianity, but just being a good person. Karma.

Chances are that all divine interactions were drug or psychosis-induced, but who's to say what you experience on a substance isn't real. Perhaps there are other planes of existence, unbeknownst to us, with the current state of our brains inhibiting our perception of them. Perhaps, with the right chemical state, a door IS opened in one's mind that allows normally imperceptible things to become perceptible.

Who knows, but this Jesus character -- who may have been a figment of someone's imagination -- at least had his heart in the right place...

It's whoever relayed his message to the world that screwed it up.

-reply by Pothedd

[iGuest 3]

this is supid, sure there is evidence but that doesnt mean that jesus or  God exist. Evil demons possesing people, failed God(book) may have pictures but we have evidence that jesus acctually walked. They have the wrap thing they wraped Jesus in when he was dead, coming back from the dead maybe bizzar but God and Jesus has the power beyond man's imagination. Pictures and painting cant explain what happened in the past nor can words from a book(the bible as well, I don't know how man started but its beyond us) u may believe what u want.

 

[iGuest 3]

I am a believer...  and a former psychedelic junkie...  I had many, many experiences that led me to pursue Christ...  I believe without question, he is who he says he is... And more importantly, that we are who he says we are... Just like him through simple belief.  He represents the God-designed Life that is available to all

I also have questioned the importance of entheogens in this dance called life...  the funny thing about the mushroom (and many fungii based halucinogens) is that I believe they point directly to the cross...  that out of decay (death) something rises up anew, and creates such a Life giving experience... oddly similar to the death and resurrection of Jesus... 

I believe all of creation, once properly and objectively observed, points to the finished work of the cross.  But I am most thankful that the Spirit of Christ that is given to us through belief confirms who we really are so we don't have to endlessly debate the subject.

 

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

-reply by grooveministries

[iGuest 3]

It's too bad that there can't be any real discussion on this matter. Because it's a very interesting topic.Because they say that for someone that walked on water, healed the sick and raised the dead including being resurrected, how could this person not be captured in secular history? Baffling??And could not the resurrection that was spoken of possibly be reincarnation???? BLASPHEMY I know, however...While I do claim to be a Christian, not of the conventional sort that you might find, but a Sabbatarian type. It is an interesting topic.Because it's possible that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil may have well been the Mushroom. Ever done LSD? Ever heard someone say that it's like being propelled into a different plane of existence? What it lends itself to is that if the Mushroom is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, then the recognition of the Spiritual plane above would be the knowledge of Good and this world below would be the knowledge of Evil? Or visa versa??But if you've ever read the Enki Sumerian Tablets on YouTube or E.W. Bullinger's "The Witness of the Stars" then the prophecy of the stars is all about Christ.Maybe two of the most important books you'll ever read!So I'm going to say that yeah He was probably real because of the prophecy of the stars.But the more interesting thing is the mushroom and if it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?That's the real issue. Because I do believe that people have adequately demonstrated that Astro-projection is possible. And if that's the case...Then David Wilcock becomes a very interesting character doesn't he?I don't want to destroy anyone's faith in Christ, but the subject of the mushroom should be taken seriously.Don't they say that rejection of something you don't know anything about is the highest form of ignorance?And that the only thing that can keep a man in everlasting ignorance is contentment prior to investigation?