A Look At Atheism

[Aniki 0]

Religious terms are so flexible, they often have many definitions. 'Atheism' is no exception. Following are a few of the definitions I've found:#1: "Absence of belief in god" This is referred to as 'weak Atheism.' Babies can be called weak Atheists because they don't know of the concept of god.#2: "Belief that god does not exist" This is referred to as 'strong Atheism.'#3: "Absence of belief in a deity" Using this definition, everyone is an Atheist. Christians can even be Atheists simply because they lack a belief in the thousands of deities that are not their own.#4: "Belief that a deity does not exist" A stronger form of #3.Atheists are one of the most hated minorities in the US. Some of you may not believe this, but it's absolutely true. There are actually Atheists who hide their belief, or lack of it, because revealing it may turn their entire world upside down. The thought that Atheists are immoral hedonists who do whatever they please is a popular one, unfortunately. Some christians believe morals come from god.Morals actually come from the Ethic of Reciprocity, or the 'Golden Rule'. Treat others as you wish to be treated. You don't walk around punching people in the face because you know you don't want people to randomly punch you in the face. There are immoral Atheists out there, but there are immoral people everywhere, no matter the belief system. Every religion has a few jackasses, that's just the way the world works.

[Vue 0]

Ah nice post. x) (However, my head's in "debate" mode!)

 

#3: "Absence of belief in a deity" Using this definition, everyone is an Atheist. Christians can even be Atheists simply because they lack a belief in the thousands of deities that are not their own.

What is a deity? A deity is a "god or goddess", a "divine state" or "somebody or something resembling god". (Quotes used to reference dictionary meaning - Encarta Dictionary Tools.)

 

I agree with #3 entirely except for

Using this definition, everyone is an Atheist.

.

 

I myself believe in God. Therefore there is no absence of belief in a deity in me. And therefore I am not an Atheist with the definition of number 3. So therefore, if I can be seen as not an Atheist with the definition of number 3, then not everyone can be seen as an Atheist with the definition of number 3, that is,

"Absence of belief in a deity"

.

 

Boy, I hope I didn't get it wrong. x)

[Aniki 0]

Ah nice post. x) (However, my head's in "debate" mode!)

 

What is a deity? A deity is a "god or goddess", a "divine state" or "somebody or something resembling god". (Quotes used to reference dictionary meaning - Encarta Dictionary Tools.)

 

I agree with #3 entirely except for .

 

I myself believe in God. Therefore there is no absence of belief in a deity in me. And therefore I am not an Atheist with the definition of number 3. So therefore, if I can be seen as not an Atheist with the definition of number 3, then not everyone can be seen as an Atheist with the definition of number 3, that is, .

 

Boy, I hope I didn't get it wrong. x)

Do you believe in Odin, Thor, Loki, Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades? Do you believe that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva all exist? What about the Zoroastrian god, Ahura Mazda? The Eckankar's Sugmad? The Roma Del? The Inuit Sedna? If you do not believe in at least one of these, then you have an "absence of belief in a deity."

[Arkane 0]

I think there is a lot of emphasis on a when aniki says "absence of belief in A deity" What I think he is saying is not a specific deity but if you don't believe in all deities then you are an atheist because you don't believe in that deity.

[mitchellmckain 0]

From discussions with many atheists, however, I believe we should add a fifth definition that more accurately characterizes most atheists.#5 Someone one with very definite ideas about what the word "God" refers to and a belief that this "God" does not exist. This is clearly reflected in the many arguments I have had with atheists about what God is, as nonsensical as it seems that atheists should have such definite ideas about what God is when they do not believe God exists. I have in fact found that atheists are as denominational as theists depending on what exactly they beleive "God" refers to despite the fact that they believe that He does exist.Many atheists are quite reactionary, repudiating something they now understand is wrong. Many theists (myself included) are in fact no different and they are also reacting against something they now understand is wrong. We must not be confused by the limitations of words, and especially the limited slogans by which we communicate with each other. Despite apparent contradictions it is not neccessarily true that almost everyone must be wrong for any to be right. It is all to likely that we are mostly wrong about most things but slowly figuring things out and therefore right in our limited discoveries.That said, I actually believe that atheists, in accordance with Scott Peck's stages of spiritual development are at a higher "spiritual level" than some members of organized religions. I think that they are correct in their decision, that what they believe God is, does not exist. And I think that by that realization they have made one step closer to the truth. For some people this realization is essential for their spiritual and mental development, for I think that their ideas of God are actually holding them back, depressing their spirit, life and creativity, and untill they scrap these ideas they will never make any progress towards a happier life, a greater consciousness, and a higher truth.I believe that a belief in God and the presence of God in the lives of men is not universally of benefit to all human beings. In fact, I believe that this is why Adam and Eve lost their personal relationship with God, not because God was punishing them for their disobedience but because their refusal to be responsible for their own actions made God's presence in their lives do more harm than good. Therefore I say leave the atheists to the hands of God in which they reside for only God knows what each of us needs, and only God can attend to them.I believe that the Bible is the word of God, but I think that this means that it is exactly what He wishes it to say, and if people interpret it differently it is because He wishes it so. God destroyed the tower of Babel and confused the languages of men, despite the wars that would result from this, because the hope of mankind lies not in uniformity and control but in diversity and freedom. It is the diversity of our ideas and understandings of the world that makes us strong and beautiful, so let us rejoice in that diversity which reflects the incredible diversity of the rest of life on this planet and the incredible and beautiful diversity of objects in the heavens above us.

Edited April 18, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[Arkane 0]

I honestly liked your post until the last two paragraphs. It is weird how you seemed to make a complete U-turn on what you were saying. Now I have no prejudice against any single religion but I am against religion as a whole. It seems to be a crutch people fall onto whenever they don't know what to do. Also the majority of people I know only believe religion causes good. For example, if someone narrowly avoids a car accident they would say "Oh thank God!" But if the same person were to run into a ditch moments later they would say "Oh what bad luck!" BTW what religion are you, in the beginning I assumed you were an atheist but with that last paragraph you really threw me off hehe.

[mitchellmckain 0]

I honestly liked your post until the last two paragraphs. It is weird how you seemed to make a complete U-turn on what you were saying. Now I have no prejudice against any single religion but I am against religion as a whole. It seems to be a crutch people fall onto whenever they don't know what to do. Also the majority of people I know only believe religion causes good. For example, if someone narrowly avoids a car accident they would say "Oh thank God!" But if the same person were to run into a ditch moments later they would say "Oh what bad luck!"
BTW what religion are you, in the beginning I assumed you were an atheist but with that last paragraph you really threw me off hehe.

I guess I should have started with where I was coming from but if you check you will find that a large portion of the threads here in the religions section were started by me and so I figured that it was pretty obvious where I was coming from. Perhaps you should start all over and read it from the top.

I honestly liked your OP but your last post leaves a lot to be desired. It is weird how you seemed to make a complete U-turn in your attitude. Your OP was so objective and now you are showing a different side. Now I have no prejudice against any single philosophy, but I am against intolerance as a whole. Even the atheistic kind seems to be a crutch people fall onto whenever they confront a way of thinking they do not understand. Also the majority of atheists I know are just honest rational people, but they do tend to see things through a filter. For example, if one narrowly avoids a car accident they would say "Oh what good luck!" But if the same person were to run into a ditch moments later they would blame God and religion for it.

I am a Christian of course BUT I am also a physicist and a philosopher of metaphysics. Scott Peck is or was a clinical psychiatrist who wrote a series of very popular books starting with "The Road Less Traveled", where he shares some of the things he discovered about people and their psychological/spiritual development. His stages of spiritual development was a theory he developed to explain why when people made breakthrough in treatment it often involved either a break from religion or a break through to religion. Scott Peck became a Christian himself, but I am not sure if he finds the spiel of any particular denomination any more appealing than I do (probably less so than I do).

Anyway I am sorry that the mention of the Bible and its contents are so painful and offensive to you, but you can either be a closing off person or an opening person (lit. ref. to the "Santaroga Barrier" by Frank Herbert). In other words, I am sure you can safely surround yourself with like minded people, or you can participate in the challenge of understanding people different from yourself. The internet, especially a forum like this, is a great opportunity for the latter. One of the great challenges for many atheists in particular is to understand that Christianity is expressed in individuals with a great deal of diversity.
Edited April 19, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[Aniki 0]

I guess I should have started with where I was coming from but if you check you will find that a large portion of the threads here in the religions section were started by me and so I figured that it was pretty obvious where I was coming from. Perhaps you should start all over and read it from the top.
I honestly liked your OP but your last post leaves a lot to be desired. It is weird how you seemed to make a complete U-turn in your attitude. Your OP was so objective and now you are showing a different side. Now I have no prejudice against any single philosophy, but I am against intolerance as a whole. Even the atheistic kind seems to be a crutch people fall onto whenever they confront a way of thinking they do not understand. Also the majority of atheists I know are just honest rational people, but they do tend to see things through a filter. For example, if one narrowly avoids a car accident they would say "Oh what good luck!" But if the same person were to run into a ditch moments later they would blame God and religion for it.

I am a Christian of course BUT I am also a physicist and a philosopher of metaphysics. Scott Peck is or was a clinical psychiatrist who wrote a series of very popular books starting with "The Road Less Traveled", where he shares some of the things he discovered about people and their psychological/spiritual development. His stages of spiritual development was a theory he developed to explain why when people made breakthrough in treatment it often involved either a break from religion or a break through to religion. Scott Peck became a Christian himself, but I am not sure if he finds the spiel of any particular denomination any more appealing than I do (probably less so than I do).

Anyway I am sorry that the mention of the Bible and its contents are so painful and offensive to you, but you can either be a closing off person or an opening person (lit. ref. to the "Santaroga Barrier" by Frank Herbert). In other words, I am sure you can safely surround yourself with like minded people, or you can participate in the challenge of understanding people different from yourself. The internet, especially a forum like this, is a great opportunity for the latter. One of the great challenges for many atheists in particular is to understand that Christianity is expressed in individuals with a great deal of diversity.

First off, I'd like to say that no matter what you say about the Tower of Babel story, I absolutely refuse to believe that the "perfect" christian god invented an absolutely weird and insane language like English.

Then I'd like to say that if you've ever really met an Atheist who blames god for his problems, I'd ask that you slap him for me, maybe he'll snap out of it. I myself blame religion for what religion has done. Since christians slaughtered millions of people in the crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, and other acts of intolerance, they are to blame... not god, since he doesn't exist. Blaming religion is blaming the idea and concept of god and the affect it has on people. How exactly does a concept cause you to run into a ditch, though? You can't blame religion for everything.

I'm against all organized religion, myself. I hope someday in the future parents will teach their children about religion in general and encourage them to seek out more information. At a certain age when they are deemed responsible, they should be allowed to build their own belief system and worship as they please (within limits).

As for the bible (I know you were talking to Arkane, but oh well), I just couldn't read it. I get extremely drowsy and I can't get past all the "and it was good" parts due to the large amounts of jokes I find running through my head. However, I hope to read it someday in order to understand the christian perspective and appreciate some aspect of the religion, though it is the religion I most dislike out of every other imaginable... even Satanists are more desirable to me than a christian. Which is understandable, since Anton seemed to make an awesome religion and just slap the name Satan on it for kicks. Good man.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

Do you believe in Odin, Thor, Loki, Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades? Do you believe that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva all exist? What about the Zoroastrian god, Ahura Mazda? The Eckankar's Sugmad? The Roma Del? The Inuit Sedna? If you do not believe in at least one of these, then you have an "absence of belief in a deity."

Aniki, its an error is to state that deity=polytheistic gods and that new deity cannot be invented.
Deity is any Divine God, Monotheistic or Polytheistic. Jesus is a Deity, as much as Odin or the ones you listed.

I absolutely refuse to believe that the "perfect" christian god invented an absolutely weird and insane language like English.

Its not wired or insane and who said God made it? ROFLMAO.
Modern English dude has its roots in Middle and Old English that are Proto-Indo European languages.

I myself blame religion for what religion has done. Since christians slaughtered millions of people in the crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, and other acts of intolerance, they are to blame...

Religion nor Christians are responsible for those acts--individual people are.

worship as they please (within limits).

Limitation of worship is failure to worship at all if its set for social reasons.

Satanists are more desirable to me than a christian.

So a ideology that teaches hate and malice is better thane one of love and kindness? Dude your out there, no offense.
Edited April 19, 2007 by SilverFox (see edit history)

[Killer008r 0]

Grr i thought we were done with this whole atheist thing on Xisto... Grr there was that post on religion and I said stuff to you about how it's kind of redundant...and then show'd you my essay that i wrote. GRR... lol I'll post it again ... And apparently the people who used to belive in the god Apallo (The Trojans) formed Romans (Christianaty) so back in history if it's just "Nonsence" now There once was a belief in multiple gods and that formed into "Christianity" how? No one really knows, and most will probaly say that this Trojan-to-Roman thing is a lie.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Killer008r (see edit history)

[Arkane 0]

So a ideology that teaches hate and malice is better thane one of love and kindness? Dude your out there, no offense.

I have to disagree with you on what you consider Satanism. Now, I'm not a Satanist or anything like that but I honestly think its the same thing as worshipping any other god. Let’s see, what’s a good example I can make... A country is in civil war, let’s say North America, now let’s say one person goes for the south and one for the north, is there anything really different in what is going on here? They are both fighting for their rights as Christians and Satanists are both backing different "gods". Just because your religion teaches that Satan is evil does not mean that THEY believe he is. Edited April 19, 2007 by Arkane (see edit history)

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

Interesting point Arkane, I have never looked at it in that way. As a Christian I feel that I can never condone or sanction Satanism, however I do see your point, very good point.

Edited April 19, 2007 by SilverFox (see edit history)

[mitchellmckain 0]

Grr i thought we were done with this whole atheist thing on Xisto... Grr there was that post on religion and I said stuff to you about how it's kind of redundant...and then show'd you my essay that i wrote. GRR... lol I'll post it again ... And apparently the people who used to belive in the god Apallo (The Trojans) formed Romans (Christianaty) so back in history if it's just "Nonsence" now There once was a belief in multiple gods and that formed into "Christianity" how? No one really knows, and most will probaly say that this Trojan-to-Roman thing is a lie.

Hmmmmm.....?????? Does anyone understand what this guy is trying to say?

[foolakadugie 0]

Aniki, its an error is to state that deity=polytheistic gods and that new deity cannot be invented.
Deity is any Divine God, Monotheistic or Polytheistic. Jesus is a Deity, as much as Odin or the ones you listed.
Its not wired or insane and who said God made it? ROFLMAO.

Modern English dude has its roots in Middle and Old English that are Proto-Indo European languages.

Religion nor Christians are responsible for those acts--individual people are.
Limitation of worship is failure to worship at all if its set for social reasons.
So a ideology that teaches hate and malice is better thane one of love and kindness? Dude your out there, no offense.

Often christians and even others assume that satanists are hateful/violent/immoral/etc (the list goes on), but many of these asumptions are based on myths.
Movies and literature and other things have misrepresented what many satanists are. People seem to think that they go around killing animals for rituals, when
in reality this is very much against to satanist beliefs (only ok if it is being used for food or if you are being attacked by the animal). The satanists that I
know/met/spoken with are all quite the opposite of malicious and hateful. These people have decent morals and have always treated me and others with
respect and kindness. There are different types of satanists"and those different groups can have dramatically different beliefs. The concept of Satan actually
existed before Christianity, thus, not all "satanists" are directly rejecting the Christians and their god. So I don't see why a satanist is any more threatening to
a Christian as a person of any different belief.

I think everyone has the right to believe what they want and I am generally accepting of most religions. There are good people from many different backgrounds,
cultures and religions. I have met plenty of hateful people who consider themselves Christian, but that doesn't mean that christians are hateful. Religions don't
make bad people. Good people are good people.

[Vue 0]

Do you believe in Odin, Thor, Loki, Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades? Do you believe that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva all exist? What about the Zoroastrian god, Ahura Mazda? The Eckankar's Sugmad? The Roma Del? The Inuit Sedna? If you do not believe in at least one of these, then you have an "absence of belief in a deity."

Ah damn this is giving me too much shock. =[

 

Well, no. I don't believe in all of them. Or any of those you listed. Is God not a deity?

 

After all, definition number 3 says a deity, not all deities.