Does God Exist?

[MeanorDljato 0]

to claim that god exist because we believe in him is perhaps praising the human mind a little too much... but maybe you mean that we can only understand or see god if we try to. if we are sure that good is nowhere then when we look at the world we will not see god anywhere. if we believe in him we might see everything as the result of his act of creation.i think that there are no good proofs for god, but some things can make you wonder. who created this or has it always been? are we the same after death as we were before we were born?these are only words and in themselves they explain nothing. let go of all thought and feel the presence of god.

[OpaQue 15]

to claim that god exist because we believe in him is perhaps praising the human mind a little too much... but maybe you mean that we can only understand or see god if we try to. if we are sure that good is nowhere then when we look at the world we will not see god anywhere. if we believe in him we might see everything as the result of his act of creation.i think that there are no good proofs for god, but some things can make you wonder. who created this or has it always been? are we the same after death as we were before we were born?
these are only words and in themselves they explain nothing. let go of all thought and feel the presence of god.

Right said, you don't have to even name it. Just feel your conscience. Close your eyes and imagine that you just died. You have no connection whatsoever with the world. Your role in this world is over and nothing binds you to your name. Feel every responsibility, every relationship, every expectation, every schedule, simply Everything Detached by yourself and let your mind free. Concentrate at the center of your eye brow and don't wander in thoughts but just the inner peace and your presence. Wait.. 15 mins are not yet over. .... (after 15 mins).. Feel the new You. :-)

-Shree

[Sohaib1405241555 0]

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qur’an 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.

[hoopa 0]

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qurâan 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.

I don't know anything about the Quran, but if this is true then that is pretty impressive before you put a god into the context of that sort of knowledge.

Not wanting to pick on your religion, but I think some of your logic needs expanding to make it a little more water tight.

So, some of my questions are: (some of these might be obvious, I just know nothing about the Quran):
How you know this knowledge was first stated 1400 years ago?
Has the Quran changed in the last 1400 years?
Do you know who wrote the Quran?
How can you prove God was the source of that information?

An interesting article I just read on wikipedia. I'm not going to put wikipedia as a reference,as I have no idea who put this content in, but Im guessing they know more than I do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism

Cheers,
Hoopa

[OpaQue 15]

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.

Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qurâan 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.

Islam says "Our Quran has everything mentioned right from evolution to the date today".

Hinduism says "Our Vedas have scientific knowledge about everything n everything".

Bible also says how it has bought the world in existence.

 

-> So ?? .... <-

 

Spiritual masters have great thinking levels because of their years of meditation / spiritual practice. You cannot compare their intelligence. Each one of them has known "God" or realized "God" or felt "God" and have told us everything about God to the best possible extent they could. God is an experience.. just like swimming. I can teach you the moves, but you will understand and know swimming only when you follow and do it yourself.

 

Everyone says God is everywhere and inside everyone. Why?? How many of us have actually tried to search GOD within yourself. How much of you actually know yourself? When we learn to see ourselves deeply, we will be able to understand God the way it was written about in the mystic literatures (Quran, Bible etc. ) Until then, we will just keep arguing about its literal meaning like fools (or illiterate kids). :-)

 

Only then we can imagine why a great person like Jesus never complained about those who hurt him. How could one be soooo humble and modest? How many of us actually understand him? What do you think Jesus would had said when a person told him about other religions like Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism?

[tudor 0]

God may not be provable through mathematical formulae or properties of physics, but we live in an era where the evidence of an Intelligent Designer is all around us. Just look through the Hubble Telescope and peer to the edge of the massive cosmos. View the monitor of an electron-scanning microscope and delve into the intricate world of a microscopic cell. Try to comprehend the massive library of complex information inherent in the digital code that turns a fertilized egg into a human being. Study principles of quantum mechanics and investigate the world of extra-dimensionality. Review the nature of your conscience, subconscious, standards of morality, and thoughts of religion. Then, try to reconcile all of these realities with a basic theory of randomness and chaos.Based on what we know today, I truly believe that atheism (not believing in any kind of god) is a much bigger "leap of faith" than theism (believing that some kind of god exists).I asked my friend, “Have you really thought about some of the evidences for God? Or, are you presupposing a purely naturalistic world, and closing your eyes to some of the possible evidence? If I propose some observational evidence, are you even open to examining it?”My friend asked me to go on. So, here’s my attempt at some basic scientific observations that point to God: -causation. God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe and all that's in it. (The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted in everything that we see.) -order. God provides the best explanation for abstract notions such as numbers, mathematical formulae, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. (The alternative theory is that the chaotic first elements ordered themselves into complex information systems.) -design. God provides the best explanation for the absolute complexity inherent in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems. (The alternative theory is that random chance engineered apparent design.) -encoded Instructions. God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. (The alternative theory is that complex code, such as binary code running computers, can pop into existence without any kind of programming, testing and debugging process.) -irreducible Complexity. God provides the best explanation for fully functioning biological organisms, systems, and subsystems that couldn’t come about through gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary levels. (The alternative theory is that biological systems took huge, unseen leaps from simple to complex without any guided process or forward-looking instructions.) -duality. God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind). (The alternative theory is monism -- only matter exists and the human brain only appears to have a separate subconscious ability.) -morality. God provides the best explanation for the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. (The alternative theory is that unguided materialistic processes evolve higher human consciousness.)

[Sohaib1405241555 0]

@ Hoopa.thanks for your appriciation man...actually my english is not good nor I have got excellent communication skills to express what I know effectively.well... I am not a scholer but the question you posed are quite simple to answer.here I'll give you brief answers but I can refer you to some pages where you will get answers of all your questions.your first question was how we know that this knowledge was first stated in Quran.well if it is copied from some other source then that source has to be present.since there is no such source present, we have to believe in it.if we dont believe in it by saying that there must be some other source present somewhere then we will making ourselves fool.But here I would like to tell you that according to our belief, Quran is not the first reveletion from GOD.Prophet Muhammad(may peace be upon him) was not the only messenger of GOD but he was the last messenger of GOD.More than one lac twenty four thousands messengers has been sent by GOD.similerly Quran is not the only book from GOD.so maybe those fact has been previously reveled by GOD but even that is not present in any book.you asked in your second question that whether the Quran has changed or not in the last 1400 hundred years.Quran is the only relegious scripture on the face of earth which has not been changed.it is as pure as it was 1400 years ago.the reason is that Quran is not only in papers but it is in the hearts.it is the only book which is been learnt by millions of people without a single mistake.regarding your third question that who wrote the Quran, Quran is actually God's words reveled to Prophet Muhammad.The Qur’an was not revealed at one time. It was revealed over a period of 23 years in stages part by part.Im not sure but I think Umer Farooq, a companion of prophet Muhammad(PBUH) gave it a book shape.regarding your fourth question, if u saw my above reply I've already given answer of this question that no human being could write this 1400 years ago.there are many other things which proves that Quran is the word of GOD like if u read Quran you will find that it has been written in a very unique style.it has extremly unique style and is very different from other relegious scriptures.another thing which proves that it is a word of God and prophet didn't copy it from some other source is that prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) h was an illiterate and Qur’an testified in Surah Ankabut, Ch. No. 29, Verse No. 48, that those was not able to recite any book before this book was revealed, nor was thou able to transcribe it before this.

[hoopa 0]

Tudor: I must have missed something, as you seem to have failed to explain how there is any proof that anything was created by god. In just about every one of your statements, you've managed to state "god is the best explanation for...". You've listed the alternative scientific explanation, but nothing to back up exactly what "god did".

 

Best is only a relative term. Let's assume that god is the best explanation, that doesn't necessarily make it the correct explanation. If all of those scientific theories turned out to be completely true, then I'd be as surprised as you. It is the scientific process that is the important thing in uncovering what is fact, and if that fact is god then the scientific process will eventually resolve to that conclusion.

 

Sohaib: Thanks for your reply, and after doing a bit more reading about the Quran , I've become more impressed in the organisation of the Quran. There was a date around 650 AD where there was a consciouse decision to standardise the Quran. I still have to question the logic of your argument, as I think that you need to take a more objective view of things (i.e. try and step back from your religion for a few moments. I will try to show a few example of what I mean.

 

 

your first question was how we know that this knowledge was first stated in Quran.well if it is copied from some other source then that source has to be present.since there is no such source present, we have to believe in it.if we dont believe in it by saying that there must be some other source present somewhere then we will making ourselves fool.But here I would like to tell you that according to our belief, Quran is not the first reveletion from GOD.Prophet Muhammad(may peace be upon him) was not the only messenger of GOD but he was the last messenger of GOD.More than one lac twenty four thousands messengers has been sent by GOD.similerly Quran is not the only book from GOD.so maybe those fact has been previously reveled by GOD but even that is not present in any book.

a) As I put in my last post, Heliocentrism has been around for quite a while. It did not take me long to find a example that pre-dated 1400 years (about 9 BC). As you say, there may have been other recordings that pre-date Muhammad, but without evidence of that then you are not able to state that the Quran was the first to state the earth was not the center of the world.

 

 

Quran is the only relegious scripture on the face of earth which has not been changed.it is as pure as it was 1400 years ago.the reason is that Quran is not only in papers but it is in the hearts.it is the only book which is been learnt by millions of people without a single mistake.

b.) My only info on this one is from wikipedia, so I'm open to more proof if you have it. I think it is true that the Quran has not changed for 1400 years. I think it is wrong that the Quran has never changed. In order for the Quran to be standardised 1400 years ago, this means that there had to be at least 2 versions of the Quran sometime before that, and it appears that any previous incarnations have not survived the test of time. I looks like the standardisation was to bring the variations of the Quran back into line with the original Quran. So, I have no proof that those other version existed and cannot progress this argument any further. I do not question anyones faith, but I know that humans are not perfect, and quite regularly make mistakes. No proof of the originality of a document can ever be trusted based solely on the word of a human. I'm not a trusting person. I cannot prove that the big bang is real, so I can only trust people know what they are talking about. Likewise, I cannot prove that God talked to Muhammad, so I can only trust that this is correct. One will be shown to be the truth, but only with proof can that be done.

No guarantee on the info, but the source was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran

 

another thing which proves that it is a word of God and prophet didn't copy it from some other source is that prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) h was an illiterate and Qurâan testified in Surah Ankabut, Ch. No. 29, Verse No. 48, that those was not able to recite any book before this book was revealed, nor was thou able to transcribe it before this.

c) I think this means no-one was shown to have known this before they wrote the Quran? I think we covered this one in part a (i.e. there are sources pre-dating the Quran). Another interesting point is that the death of Muhammad is stated to be 632. The standardisation of the Quran was stated to be in about 650 (after Muhammad's death). I do not want to go too far into this as I understand that Muhammad is a sensative topic, but keep in mind that perhaps Muhammad has never actually seen the current version of the Quran (if it is actually different from pre 600 AD.

 

It is not my aim to disprove anything (I can disprove a lot of things), but the important thing is to provide solid objective proof. Until proof arises, then all we really have are theories (big bang, religion etc). If god is the answer, then we should remain open to that as a possibility. Science is not the answer, it is only way of discovering that answer, and that we should all be aware of the distinct possibility that we could all be totally wrong

 

Cheers,

Hoopa

[skedad 0]

I just wrote a post on "Does Science Answer our Questions" only a few moments ago. And I kept the respect given to the post. But this is a different post and this will be a different response. I am a Christian, and I am proud of my spiritual beliefs. I find it unfortunate for those that do not have a belief to follow. I do not go around judging others, but I also don't do enough to spread the word. I follow God, but I am still a human being walking this earth, so I am STILL IMPERFECT, and I like it like that.I do believe that God exists, but this post will never have the answers that everyone is looking for. This is not an excuse, but it is fact that if you want to know more on the life of Jesus and the existence of God, you don't go to Xisto, you go to church to find out for yourselves.But I led a life without God and it was really truly I time that I didn't know myself. I am trying to keep this post fairly simple and a bit general not to step on toes, and that is sad to think sometimes that beliefs can't always be placed on any text media without criticisms... so this is my short and sweet answer then. I just want to leave with this thought, don't bash what you don't understand... and also, there are many people who will like to give you the answers that you will be looking for. Have fun with the posts here, but it is best to keep open minds in this one!- skedad -

[OpaQue 15]

I just wrote a post on "Does Science Answer our Questions" only a few moments ago. And I kept the respect given to the post. But this is a different post and this will be a different response.
I am a Christian, and I am proud of my spiritual beliefs. I find it unfortunate for those that do not have a belief to follow. I do not go around judging others, but I also don't do enough to spread the word. I follow God, but I am still a human being walking this earth, so I am STILL IMPERFECT, and I like it like that.

I do believe that God exists, but this post will never have the answers that everyone is looking for. This is not an excuse, but it is fact that if you want to know more on the life of Jesus and the existence of God, you don't go to Xisto, you go to church to find out for yourselves.

But I led a life without God and it was really truly I time that I didn't know myself. I am trying to keep this post fairly simple and a bit general not to step on toes, and that is sad to think sometimes that beliefs can't always be placed on any text media without criticisms... so this is my short and sweet answer then.

I just want to leave with this thought, don't bash what you don't understand... and also, there are many people who will like to give you the answers that you will be looking for. Have fun with the posts here, but it is best to keep open minds in this one!

- skedad -

I agree, its more of experiencing than reading, writing or understanding.

[yordan 10]

I would say that the initial question is a bad question. I think nobody here can answer the question "does god exist".The real question, and each one of us can answer it, is "do you believe in God ?". And of course, once the answer is "yes", the second step must be "do you think that this god is unique ?".Some religions have several gods (one of war, one for love, one for rain, etc..)Some other religions think that God is a unique being, although you might name Him in several ways (Yahve, Jehovah, Vishnou), he il all by himself, auto-sufficient. And of course he has te be allmighty, being everywhere at the same moment, albe to ear each of us but we should not disturb him too often for neglectible questions.I don't know why Science is systematically opposed to religion. Maybe because science is unable to prove existence or non-existence of any Divinity. Being unable to prove the non-existence of God does not prove that he exists. This simply proves that they belong to separate existence plans.

[Shane Sonnier 0]

I do belive in god because if u read the bible it was stated that they would have a major diease and that is hiv and the wars that he said would is happing and people dying everyday sometimes he dosent answer my prayers but somedays he does and he bleesed me with two wonderful chirlden that i love and they love me.But i think one this world will end as was predicted in the bible hope not in my lifetime.

[Zeno1405241556 0]

In this post, I will not offer anything towards the existence of God, nor towards the opposite case.

However, it should be noted that many of the arguments used in this topic are prime examples of circular reasoning.

 

You can not use theology or any books of theology (i.e., Bible, Qur'an, etc.) to prove the existence of God. Theology presupposes the existence of God. How can you have a branch of reasoning devoted to the study of God if there isn't one? You can't; therefore, God must exist in order for theology to be useful and true. That being said, it should be clear why theology can not be used in proofs for God's existence -- if you were to use theology, obviously you'd of already had to prove God exists, or assumed it. Any series of deductions based on even a single assumption is completely unreliable.

 

Some may also want to quip Anselm's ontological arguement for the existance of God. He describes there are being two possible cases:

God doesn't exist and He is only imaginary

God exists and He is also imaginary (that is, that He is in our imagination as well as His real existence)

Anselm goes on to define God as a "being than which nothing greater can be conceived". That is, that there is nothing better or even thinkable than God. So the question is thus: which is greater of the two former cases? (For sake of clarity, consider the imaginary case as A, imaginary alone, and the case of the actuality as A+B, imaginary and actual. A + B is obviously greater in value than A.) Basic deduction would lead you to say that God existing both actually and mentally is greater, which is true.

 

But this is not a proof of God's existence. Rather, this is a logical trap -- another circular arguement. This proof of God's existence presupposes that God exists. If God didn't exist, the definition of what God is would not apply and we would never have gotten stuck in this trap. The reason this is an invalid arguement is that you can never enter it. The two arguements chase each others' tails in a circle, with no end, and no beginning.

If we were to jump into this arguement simply because it works, we could jump into all sorts of lies. Consider:

Why should we drive on the right side of the road?

Because that is the law. And the law is the law.

But people also drive on the left side of the roads, because that is the law where they are from. An argument with the basic structure of "A is A because A is A" should be laughed and scorned at, not taken to heart in one of life's most perennial questions.

 

Moving on to personal case studies, that is, personal experiences, these are also unreliable. Sensation and perception can not be relied on. The stove didn't seem hot before you put your hand on it. And the straw doesn't really bend when it's submerged underwater. There isn't really toast burning, you're just in deeeeeeeeep trouble. Things don't really shrink when you walk away from them. Hot peppers aren't actually hot. Sensation can be distorted by thousands of every day things.

While it is true that sensation is used in scientific discovery, it is used alongside of tools. If there were a scientific way to prove the existence of God, I would be all for it. Saying; however, that you can sense or feel God's [insert random chosen adjective here] or presence is completely ridiculous. Can you also feel the number I have in my head? Or see what colour my aura is? Probably not. And don't ever bring the word "feel" into a rational argument.

 

The best way I have seen to prove the existence of God is Aquinas' theory of medieval synthesis [The most famous quote of this is "since therefore grace does not destroy nature, but perfects it." Here, grace is theology, and nature is philosophy. Aquinas reasoned that philosophy could not aquire divine knowledge -- and it's true. Or at least I've yet to encounter any perfect arguements for the divine. To compensate for philosophy's ineptness, Aquinas reasoned that we must also apply theology, or take Divine Revelation by faith, in order to learn of the divine. Problem : you can not use theology as a way to argue the existence of God!!

In respect to the other proofs offered by Aquinas (namely, from the first article of the first question), from what I have read of his Summa (only the first question -- it's dull stuff and insanely long. That one page is 1/10 of one of the questions. Aquinas compiled 99 questions plus two appendices, basically questions, into the Summa Theologiae) they seem to be mostly cop-outs. For example, the arguement of efficient cause states that something had to cause the existence of things. That must be God. There's a bit of a jump there, considering nothing ties the required spark of existence to God besides folklore (though those who believe in God have no trouble believing that there is nothing that sparked His existence), and, furthermore, it assigns a role to God before proving that He exists. In the end, we are to infer that God exists because he does a plethora of things like that. Again, a circular argument.

 

In short:

No more Bible. No more Qur'an. No more stories of internal experiences. They aren't reliable.

And besides, you don't read the Bible or the Qur'an. They simply no longer exist, especially the Bible. There have been so many alterations of the original text that there is no way to tell what the original said. For example, the Bible says, on homosexuality, that if man does unto man as man does unto women it's a horrible sin. The original text was ambigious. A more accurate translation could have been "if man do unto people as man do unto person" (i.e., orgy). And anyone who can quip the King James Bible as the Word of God has got the be kidding. The Bible wasn't written in English. I do not know much about the Qur'an, but I assume there are those who would quote English translations (and transliterations, due to errors) as Divine Word.

Unless you can find a manuscript, you most likely are not reading His words. Are you familiar with telephone tag?

Use cold hard reason and facts.

 

 

And on the subject of proving that something does not exist, how do you do that if science and reason have thus far proved unsuccessful?

Do we agree that something either exists or doesn't, or is there a shared quality defining things that neither exist nor not exist?

Surely, in disproving the existance of something, you are proving that it doesn't exist.

[mikesoft 0]

I personally don't believe in God, but I think it's a good thing that many people believe in something. I do believe that thinking positively will get your positive things for your life. Same goes for negative thoughts.So that's what I see good about religion, you're thinking good positive stuff, which in the end will bring you good things to your life. Plus, you believe in a God that is somehow protecting you and that you can pray for stuff you want. If you have a sick child or relative, you pray to God and have faith that your loved one will get better. While there might not be a "God" taking care of your loved one, I'm certain that your prayers to "God" will translate into positive thoughts and therefore good things, like your loved one getting better, and when a lot of people do the same, that's a lot of positive thinking.Why don't I believe in God? maybe because I need to see things before I believe it, I'm a man of facts, I don't believe the earth was created in seven days, I believe in evolution, that makes the most sense, again, for me, a man of facts.How would religion explain the bad things happening to the world if God only wants good things to us? Oh yeah, that's why they invented the devil too. It's all a well-made story put together in ancient times. But don't get me wrong, if you believe in God (and you should) then it's ok. For you, God exists and you're happy. For me, God doesn't exists and I'm happy too.

[Haydn 0]

God existed. look at the places around u... Look at the universe...look at the world's nature... do u tink it all happened cz of BIG BANG??GOD DID IT!!Enaf proof d.