Linux N00b Needs Your Help !

[cyph3r 0]

Heya guys,Ok well since my website forum problem was solved, here i m back again to learn new stuff and be a pain in the neck again to all you folks with the bunch of questions :DWell lets get started :I use a windows XP os as of now, and i have worked on a MAC quiet a few times so i am well versed with it. But now i want to learn the Linux Os, no not for the fun sake of it but since i am doing my Bachelors in IT i would need to know how to operate on linux for future prospects. Well i am totally new to linux as in i havent touched a Linux os in my life and its like a new toy i would be playiing with for a while to learn, so would request all your folks to please bare with me :DTo start off i have tried to make my self clear by points :1) Which version should i use ? i know there are like 30 - 40 versions out there, but what do u suggest i use. I have a pre made thought, its Suse. but i would like to know sum silent features of this compared to any good version u give me. I dont mind learning how hard it is, but i want to learn it for my future life work. So please suggest some version that would hold on for 5-6 years at the first position in everyones good books.2) In SuSE, i came accross suse linux by novell ? i was confused about the difference the latest is 10 beta 2 if i am not wrong. but please update me with the info and it would be nice if you guide me to the download link and documentation of SuSE and all possible links u feel would help be get the knowledge i would need to get from a n00b to an advanced user. i m ready to put in my effort.3) I want to make this a dual OS, because i "need" windows atleast till i get the hang of it, to browse, ask questions and stuff. So heres my status as of now:c:/ , d:/ , e:/ , f:/ ---> all 18.6 GB and i use c:\ for my OS ONLY so i guess i can install win and linux on c:\ with no problems ? how do i go about it nd what seps should i take first hand. Do i partition c:\ into 2 more parts or windows or linux does it for me ? Which one do i install first, windows or linux.4) A small definition or a few lines on why the professionals prefer linux to windows.Hope i get these answers without anyone screeming at me lol. but i would take interest and learn, that much i can tell. I am doing this the hard way ( askin on forums and getting answers not so instantly ) so please bare with me if i get annoying sometimes with loads of questions. Most of you folks take out time from your busy schedule and come here to have fun and to post, My apologies to the people i would be troubling with my load of questions. I hope to learn Linux and hope to learn it from you folks :Dthankx in advanceCheers.

[yordan 10]

Lot of questions, let's try to answer them. I will try a logical order, which is not the natural 1-2-3 order.

 

Question 2 :

I would startup with Mandrake, not with Suze !

 

Question 1 :

Of course, this is my own opinion, but I'm not sure that Suze ist the best choice as first trial for a beginner.

Of course, a lot of people have different opinions, so read some posts around here to see the different opinions.

I think you should startup with Mandrake.

 

Question 3 : Dual boot.

If you have free space on your disks, Mandrake will install everything by itself, and make a dual-boot on your system. This means, when you power-on your PC, you will have the choice between Linux and Windows. moreover, you will be able to change the default (if you prefer Linux or Windows).

Download the free distro from mandrake, burn the CD's (I hope you know how to burn a bootable CD with Nero if you have a bootable iso image).

Then boot from the first CD.

The install program will see if you have free space on your system (which means non-partitionned space).

Unfortunately you have no free space. You will have to remove one of the partition, I suggest your F: partiton. Prior to that, of course, you have copied all your data from your F: disk to your E: disk !

You first ask Mandrake (or a Windows tool like Partition magic) to remove your F: partition. Then you will ask Mandrake to install Linux, standard install, on the free space left on your disk. Most of the default answers are OK, accept them for all the questions.

Remember you may restart your install from scratch as many times as you want, everytime you think your install is not correct, you may restart it. Only when you will start writing down Linux programs, you will have to stop re-installing.

 

Question 4 : Why Linux ?

The questions is not why Linux instead of Microsoft Windows.

The difference is between single-user systems and multi-user systems.

Single-user system are now rather often Intel Pc's. Microsoft has a quasi-monopole on that field. You like or you don't like it, but such is life. If you buy a personal computer in a supermarket today, you will probably obtain it with windows. So you will not really chose Windows, you will get it automatically.

On the other hand, multi-user systems (like the huge accounting or payroll printing machines) are nowadays mostly Unix systems. AIX on IBM unix systems, HP-UX on HP Unix systems, SUN-OS on Sun systems, etc...

So, smart people have to learn how to speak Unix language.

 

And, of course, Linux is a Unix operating system. Not so different from the other ones. And if you need to buy a professional system for profession use with a lot of users, most probably the cheapest solution is a Linux solution.

 

So, learning Linux is a rich idea. And if you already have a PC with 18 gigs free, learning Linux on your own system costs nothing. Moreover, having installed it will help you understanding the bindings between hardware and software. This binding is the part which is ignored by pure Linux (or Unix) people because only at installation time it's important, but it could be useful for you to learn how it works.

 

Hope this helped.

 

Yordan

 

 

Notice from m^e:

DON'T use the NOTE tag to pin-up notes in your posts. That tag is meant to be used SOLELY for ADMINISTRATIVE PURPOSES.

Edited August 25, 2005 by microscopic^earthling (see edit history)

[qwijibow 0]

Question1:
I strongly disagree with yordan.

Mandrake and SUSE are *newbie* distros.
They hide the *REAL* linux behind auto configureation wizzards, and graphical interfaces.

Great if your a newbie, but a pain for those who want to learn hard core Linux.

I would recomend Gentoo or slackware.
Gentoo is all about editing config scripts manually, and compiling all our own software from source code.
All of gentoo's scripts are well documented. so, for example, if you want to edit your network config script, full instructions on how to do so are in the config script itself.
so you learn how to edit, as you edit, without having to look for a 3rd party how-to.

One down side to gentoo, is compiling an entire linux distro on old hardware can take all day.

If you have a slow cpu, go or slackware.
Slackware is similar to gentoo, except that all the program packages are pre-compiled.

===================================================================

Question 2: I've never used SuSE.

===================================================================

Question 3:

c:/ , d:/ , e:/ , f:/

this is all meaning less.
Lets talk Primary Master's Secondry Slaves, and partiton numbers.

Any Linux Distro will allow you to setup a dual boot.
Most, including gentoo do it as part of the main installation.

It makes things much easyer if you have an empty disk to install linux to, or if you dont mind formating windows and staring again.
otherwise, you will need to shrink your windows partiton to make space for linux first.

But on thing you must pay attenting to... NEVER INSTALL WINDOWS AFTER LINUX !
when a linux installation detects windows, linux sets up a dual boot.

When windows detects a linux installation, it somtimes demands that you format linux first.
The windows installer demands that the windows partiton be in a certain place, the first partiton, and MBR... this is a load of rubbish, windows will work nomatter what partiton you run it on. Im cutrrently installing windows to partiton 5.

============================================================

Question 4:

1) Open Source ! You dont like somthing... Reprogram it !

2) Open Source ! the system is completely open, if somthing ever goes wrong, it NEVER EVER requires a format and re-install !

3) Securety.. MS windows has 1 line of securety, The firewall.
and one line of damage limitation, the virus scanner.

Linux has the firewalls, Stong user [privilage access rights, SE-Linux, GR-Securety, CHROOT JAILS, GateKeeper, TripWire, NIDS.

When all securety is in place, a hacker has 1 hell of a job owning the machine....

Lets Say they make it though the firewall...

then thers is NIDS (network intrusion detection system) watching the network traffic.
if you send a known virus, or known exploit shell code, you are blocked at the firewall level.

lets say you get through that, and send exploit code to a vulnrable server....
things like GRSecurety, SELinux, and GateKeeper are watching the server.
of the server does anything its not supposed to, like send the syscall fork() (used in many server exploits) then the call is blocked.

and even if you compromise the server, you are only running with access rights "nobondy"
you dont even have right access to anywhere except /tmp/ and you only have read access to the files that that srver owns, and uses on a daily basis.

you then need to somhow gain access rights.. hopefully root.

THEN you have to escape the chroot jail, to aaccess the real root directory tree...

OHH, and i forgot to mention, that by default, most newish distros like gentoo 2005 use randomising stack protection inthe compiler..

so its almost impossable to overflow even unchecked buffers.

Linux has so many securety features that windows just cant even dream of its un-real...

Then of-cource there is FreeBSD, which is slightly more secure than linux.

then if you want to go insane... there is OpenBSD, which boasts only 1 securety hole in the last 10 years...

[srbecker 0]

I'm not a linux hacker and haven't tried all the flavors of linux. However, I do research on a cluster running debian linux and have installed redhat and debian on my own machines. You ask why is linux preferred? Of course, it's not always preferred, and can cost time and money if you must retrain people to use it. But it has many advantages. For ME, the advantages are:1) First, for a user, it is really easy to use the KDE and Gnome desktops. They run just like windows. Browsing the web, writing email, writing documents and such is as simple as in Windows and you get great free programs that are often included in the installation package. Being a system administrator is a different story, however.2) For data management, the unix and shell interfaces are great. They're also great for remote access to other machines. You can run an ssh session with x-windows immediately after installing, while you can not do this on windows without buying a program.As for open source, this has two implications. You can tweak the programs yourself, which is often touted as an advantage. However, if you don't know what you're doing, this is useless. But, the second advantage is that other people already tweaked the programs, and you can download their versions. For someone like me, a good linux user but not qualified to be a system admin, linux is pretty easy. But I find myself wasting time whenever I try to act as a system admin.For versions, debian is very popular because of its package system. If you want a program like firefox, you download the firefox package and debian will automatically download/update other packages that firefox depends upon. Redhat's RPM system won't do this. I would suggest starting with popular flavors of linux because you will find more support for them; i.e. try Redhat. You said you're willing to spend time learning the system, so don't be scared away by a flavor like Debian just because it's not quite as user-friendly as Redhat or other flavors.Of course, I'm writing this from my windows partition because I can't get my linux partition to load my video driver and hence the resolution is stuck at 800x600 or lower. That's because I am my own system administrator, which is a bad, bad idea.Oh, for "newbie" distros that hide things: I see that as an advantage, since you can chose to use the graphical interfaces OR the command line tools. It's not as if they take the command line tools away from you. And I believe that your local book store will have books on Redhat, but probably not on Gentoo. Internet documentation won't teach you the fundamentals.

[jipman 0]

That's why Fedora is easier in usage, it has yum which updates everything easily. Also, it has a lot of support so fixing problems should be easier. And better not use noob-distros, you'll pick up linux'ing quite fast and then you find yourself using some crappy beginners distro.

[cyph3r 0]

ok, Well first of before i start anything i just realised that, even tho there would be many version names of linux comming my way i would be choosing one. I wish i could choose all at one go but i need to learn serious linux'ing from scratch. No offence to the folks that help me by giving names of distros but i would appriciate their help alot.

 

Ok, so till now, i have sumed up these version in the posts till now:

 

Mandrake

FreeBSD

OpenBSD

Gentoo

slackware

debian

Fedora

 

EDIT : I checked this site out --> HERE, and it gave me all versions of linux, new and old. This was the page hit rank:

 

Rank Distribution Hits

1 Ubuntu 2670

2 Mandriva 1604

3 Fedora 1320

4 SUSE 1220

5 MEPIS 1200

 

Does this mean that higher the hits on a page, stable and secure and advanced is the linux version ?

 

 

ok, now in all the posts i saw, in this one post i would like to clear out one of my questions for good ! Which Version Of LINUX ?? This one line that hit me real hard was this :

Mandrake and SUSE are *newbie* distros.

They hide the *REAL* linux behind auto configureation wizzards, and graphical interfaces.

Great if your a newbie, but a pain for those who want to learn hard core Linux.

Guys, i need to learn hardcore linux, and even if that means i have to start with an advanced version, i WILL do it. I want to. So could u guys suggest a "non-newbie" distro lol. sounds weird, but i need a distro that would work for me, cause since i am just at college and having my last lear on. After i get out of here i need to get into the corporate world with the knowledge of linux an Admin or a system analysist needs.

 

Hope the "Which Version of Linux" Trauma ends soon cause if i find 2-3 people agreeing on 1 distro thats advanced, secure, and better in all ways, i would go for it, learning other distros like SuSE can come later when i am done learning the real stuff. dont u think ?

 

Now comming to the point of dual installation. I have windows on c:\ and i f'got to mention that i AM ready to give up my present windows installation. So can i install linux on a 18.6 GB partition ? as in

 

10GB ---> Windows XP

8.6GB---> Linux

Can this be done ? And yes i got the point of installing windows first and Linux after that so it creates a dual boot easily. I realise how annoying windows gets when it comes to dual boot ups. The reason y i am just stuck with this 1 drive is that the rest all drives are almost full with 1 gb max remaining in them. so i have the option of only my c:\ drive to install both OS. Do i need to "RE-Partition" the c:\ again ? or just plain install a new windows installation and pop the linux cd in and start with the linux installation selecting the same drive for dual boot.

 

Many, frustrating questions and i am annoying u all as hell sorry again.

 

EDIT 2 : what is "KDE and Gnome desktops" , Just curious.

 

Cheers.

[xboxrulz1405241485 0]

dhandesh, that list only shows the hits per day. It doesn't mean which one is better.You should start out with Ubuntu (or Kubuntu if u like KDE better) or Suse. Note, 10.0 is in beta, the current stable version is 9.3 which is also available for download.I recommend SuSE because it's easy. It's great for both newbs and experienced users. I can always choose to use command line setup or graphical setup and configuration whenever I want.SuSE is not only for newbs.xboxrulz

[xboxrulz1405241485 0]

KDE: It is a free desktop that is written in C and uses the QToolkit for the front-end. It has a great iCandy feel. It is easy to use too! https://www.kde.org/

GNOME: It was planned to replace KDE because of licensing issues which are now resolved. It is like KDE but it uses the GTK as the front-end. https://www.gnome.org/

I use KDE.

There's no "best" desktop, you have to choose yourself.

Also, sorry for the double post.

xboxrulz

[abhiram 0]

Guys, i need to learn hardcore linux, and even if that means i have to start with an advanced version, i WILL do it. I want to. So could u guys suggest a "non-newbie" distro lol.

Good to see that you are enthusiastic about learning something new. Very few people are really interested to take the plunge into learning a new OS with the intent of being competent in it.

But, since this is the first time you are using Linux, you better go with Mandriva. It is definitely easier for the newb but it isn't exactly as easy as Windows . It doesn't exactly hold your hand and show you around the place. Mandriva has a huge following and it has drivers for most of the major companies. So, the minute you install it, you've atleast got a GUI (use KDE or GNOME ... they are the easiest... I won't say the best), and your windows partition is detected, your network is detected and you can play songs. That's just about all it will do, which is actually quite a lot if you compare it with slackware or gentoo.

I haven't used SuSE, but from what I've heard it should be easier than Mandriva.

Get a good book on Unix/Linux commands and start learning how to use the console. Installing a program is a very big thing for a newbie.... I know, I've been there. Learn about the different configuration files that the distro uses. With Mandriva, you can learn the basics about Linux in about a couple of weeks.

The reason I'm telling you not to go directly to slackware or gentoo is because, both of them require considerable amount of experience with Linux. I haven't used Gentoo (but plan to use it pretty soon), but Slackware isn't easy if you are going to do it for the first time. You have to set up the partitions, specify a swap partition and then install using a Text-based install and finally, when the installation is done, it throws a black screen with the words 'Welcome to Darkstar, Login:' at you . From there, your on your own.... you've got to configure the display drivers, the audio drivers, the network interface, set up the windows partitions to be accessible to all users ... blah blah blah.

If you are a complete newb to Linux, I doubt you'll be able to deal with this.

To sum it up, use Mandriva until you get a feel of Linux. Once you get the feeling that it's not giving you enough freedom, just chuck it out and go for Slackware. Once you've conquered that, you can scale Gentoo.

On a side note, about your question about KDE and GNOME...

You've got many window managers for Linux... it's not like Windows where you've only got one kind of arrangement for the start button and the way the menus and icons show up. You've got KDE,GNOME, FVWM, BLACKBOX, FLUXBOX, WINDOWMAKER, ENLIGHTENMENT ....

You better use KDE or GNOME, because they are easier and the most popular ... but some people (myself included) don't use them because they take up more resources than the other managers.

[qwijibow 0]

KDE is the most popular desktop.

Its similar to windows, in the way that its goals are to make everything integrated.

 

For example, Windows has the porgram explorer.

Explorer does eerythign in one, it can show pictures, it shows PDF's it browsers the internet, it rowses the hard disk, any maybe even does a few more things.

 

KDE aims to be integrated like this.

 

Gnome is the opposite, it aims to be modular.

each program performs one task, and is specialised for that one task only.

 

Also GNOME is very lean, Zero bloat. Loads and runs faster than KDE.

 

get screen shots at https://www.kde.org/, and https://www.gnome.org/.

 

its about personal pe#referance, you can easily install them both and switch between them whenever you like.

 

There are many other desktops available, like for example Enlightenment.org Which is perhaps the most inovitive desktop. And IceWM.org which is a minimalist distro.... LIGHTNING fast, but minus eye candy, and other conviniences.

 

ABOUT dual booting.....

You have 2 options.. resize the windows partiton, shrinking it by a few gig, then running the linux install.

 

OR format the drive, install windows, but when it asks where to install windows to, go into partiton options, delete the origonal partiton, and create a new partiton, what doesnt ake up the whole disk, then install to that partiton. THEN install linux.

 

In both cases, dureing the linux install, pick the empty *un-partitoned" space to install linux to.

 

I know it sounds complicated, but its really very easy.

 

for re-sizing the windows partiton, you ave 2 options, either use a tool like partiton magic (not free) Or find a friend with a bootable knoppix CD. (Knoppix is a live cd linux distro, it givesa full working linux desktop from a bootable cd, without having to install to hard drive)

 

knoppix has a porgram called qt-parted. this can resize windows partitons.

 

I know this is probably swamping you with data.

 

Perhaps the best advice i can give, is backup your data, download the distro of your choice.

(im still recomending slackware or gentoo IF you want to take the fast route crash course without too much hand holding)

 

and just dive in.

 

no matter how much info we give you, you WILL make mistakes.. its how we learn.

 

In fact, i would say breaking things is the best way to learn !!

 

You break somthing, spend 15 minutes reading about how it works, and how to configure it.

spend 5 minutes trial and erroring your way though the config.. then by the end, your an expert in that small area of linux.

 

Go forth, and make mistakes...

 

and remember... No matter how bad you break somthing, nothing ever ever requires a re-install,, even if linux wont boot, there is a faster way to fix it than re-install, although a re-install is easyest, it wont teach you about what went wrong.

 

(ohh, unless you acciently format the root partiton, then you need ot re-install.. lol)

[cyph3r 0]

Hmm ok now i get what KDE and GNOME mean, thanks for clearning up my doubts m8's.

 

(im still recomending slackware or gentoo IF you want to take the fast route crash course without too much hand holding)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now getting back to " WHich Linux " I guess i have short listed 3 versions as of now again:

 

Mardriva

Gentoo

Slackware

 

Any more versions would help me make a final decision. Ok, well I agree to what qwijibow said about " you dunt learn unless you break something and then fix it yourself " totally goes with my situation now. But could i go into being a "serious" Linux Dude. What i mean is that i would get into linux, because windows ( no offence ) is trying to be a pain in my @**, err. I mean hearing stuff from somany people about security issues and ease of use by a user, Linux HAS to be good for a reason. I want Windows to stay a secondary option in my life in future, call it an aim or call it a decision

 

Get a good book on Unix/Linux commands and start learning how to use the console. Installing a program is a very big thing for a newbie.... I know, I've been there.

Thankx for that tip abhiram bro, I got some docs on Linux commands, ( believe me i have NO idea of what these commands mean ) i just went through them once and m sending them to get it printed for future refrence. I asked a buddy of mine to get books of Linux commands from the library, but there are so many, its just hard to find the right one, Its like u need to learn sumthing in particular, but this is the hard way to go to it i guess. I dont know anyone here who has knowledge of Linux other than my college Admin who seems to be a snob Anyways, leme see how many books i get my hands on, Its Linux study time for me now

 

(ohh, unless you acciently format the root partiton, then you need ot re-install.. lol)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your r scaring me. As per my windows knowledge, FORMAT means removal of the total system. So whats the root partition here. I hope its the primary one. and no ! lol i aint gona format the primary or root, infact it would be nice if u guys tell me some " DO NOT USE" codes when am pretty good to go with Linux.

 

Cheers

And thankx again for all ur help.

[cyph3r 0]

Are these versions of linux trustable ? I mean since i am totally new i have this weird question abot linux distributions. There are so many out there. And most you folks here use linux since like 2-3 or more years rite ? so which one is the most reliable version ? or let me rephrase that. Are the versions that i sumed up in the last post going to stay in the linux scene for a long time ? A name i have been hearing since like 4-5 years is the Mandrake ( correct my spelling please ) Will any version i woud choose stop its development and die off in 3-4 years?Cheers

[abhiram 0]

So whats the root partition here. I hope its the primary one.

What is usually done is people make 3 partitions for Linux. i.e. divide your unpartitioned space into 3 divisions:

1. Root Partition
2. Home partition
3. Swap partition

The root partition is the partition on which you install the system files and all the important files which can be accessed (read manipulated) only by the 'root' or 'super-user'.

The home partition is the partition on which you have the folders which contain all the files and folders of all the users.

The swap partition is required for use as virtual memory if I'm not mistaken and it is used as somewhere between 128mb-1024mb.. .it's up to you... I didn't see too much of a difference with a larger swap partition.

Actually home and root partition can be used on the same partition. It won't make any difference at all... but if for some reason, as qwijibow said, if root partition gets messed up, you lose all your files.

But since you are starting out, I guess it won't hurt to put them in the same partition... that's what I did. Gives you more space.

Are these versions of linux trustable ? I mean since i am totally new i have this weird question abot linux distributions. There are so many out there. And most you folks here use linux since like 2-3 or more years rite ?
A name i have been hearing since like 4-5 years is the Mandrake ( correct my spelling please ) Will any version i woud choose stop its development and die off in 3-4 years?

Well... I've been using Linux for the past one year.

Don't worry... these are very popular and stable (trustable as well) versions of Linux.

Slackware is one of the most stable versions of Linux and was first introduced in 1991.

Mandriva (Mandrake+Connectiva merger last year) was and is and will be one of the most popular distros because of it's ease of use.

Not much idea about Gentoo, but from what I know, people have been using that for years as well. It's a super-optimised distro which is custom tuned to your computer in every way making it run like ... whooosh!!!

Hope this helps you out .

[cyph3r 0]

ok so let me just get this fixed :

 

1) I pop in the windows xp cd and install a new version by formatting from the cd itself ( like i always do ).

 

2) after the installation is done on c: i can pop in the Linux cds that i would d'load and continue with the installation on c: its self ? If yes, then the root would be c: i assume and the home partition would have to be manually selected ?

 

3) after the the Linux installation and last reboot, i would be supplied with dual boot options ? and both Os would work fine !

 

any mistake in the above ? I know thats a little too vague, but since i havent see a linux installation i wouldent know the basics and parameters. ok well i'll get on to that later, as of now, the partition question is : would i get to choose root and home in the linux installation itself ? root, yes obvious , but what about home ?

 

 

And about the Right version for me .. err lol now thats a hard choice sheesh. I would compare between:

 

Mandriva

Gentoo

 

so if you guys would now help me choose one out of the 2, that would help, cause i have been going through the posts again and again like a million times now, and i could come up with 2 versions as of now.

 

Thankx for all the help and hopefully i would get an option by tommorow and would start d'loading the selected distro tommorow right away

 

cheers and thankx

[xboxrulz1405241485 0]

If I were u, I'll take Mandriva because it's easier. There's a downside of Mandriva, if you want to update KDE or GNOME you MUST be part of the subscription club.I still recommend SuSE.xboxrulz