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mandla

Speaking In Tongues

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i have been a Christian for years but now that Im grown up Ive come to question some of the things we do as Christians. I know that religions differ so bear with me if your religion does not speak in tongues. The bible mentions things about getting filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. but my questions whether the tongues are real or not and how come they all sounds so different and you feel under pressure at church to speak in tongues. I just wanna know if this is something that churches do just to create their own identity. Does anyone know more about tongues and stuff. I would appreciate some open minded answers unlike the other religions that will accuse me of being demonic or evil or satan filled just because I dared to ask lol

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i have been a Christian for years but now that Im grown up Ive come to question some of the things we do as Christians. I know that religions differ so bear with me if your religion does not speak in tongues.
The bible mentions things about getting filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. but my questions whether the tongues are real or not and how come they all sounds so different and you feel under pressure at church to speak in tongues. I just wanna know if this is something that churches do just to create their own identity. Does anyone know more about tongues and stuff. I would appreciate some open minded answers unlike the other religions that will accuse me of being demonic or evil or satan filled just because I dared to ask lol


Hi mandla,

The Greek word used for "tongues" in the New Testament is the normal Greek word for "language." In Acts 2, this is exactly what happened. Jesus was crucified, rose again, and ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to his Apostles in order to enable them to spread the gospel. They needed to speak the various languages of the people so that the gospel could be spread to the Gentiles. It was God's miraculous way of doing so. I would highly recommend reading Acts 1 and 2 to get the whole context and understand what "tongues" is.

Historically, the Corinthian people (people who lived in Corinth) were known to participate in what is called "ecstasy" (not the drug). There would be a lot of drinking and debauchery, orgies, babbling, convulsing, etc... a complete frenzy. All of this was to somehow come in contact with the "divine," and the pagans called it "ecstasy". When the gospel was spread to those regions, some of the Corinthian people began to mix their ideas with Christianity. That is why the Apostle Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14 (I recommend reading this as well). Acts 2 is about the true gift of tongues (languages), while 1 Corinthians 14 is about the counterfeit tongue (babbling) that came about from mixing pagan ideas with Christianity. If you read 1 Corinthians 14, the Greek word used for "tongue" (singular) always refers to the "ecstasy gibberish" that the pagans spoke. The Greek word used for "tongues" (plural) always refers to the true gift of tongues which is simply another language used to edify other people so that the gospel may be spread and believers may be encouraged (because it was miraculously in their own language).

As for your question about whether or not churches do it to "create their own identity"... I'm not sure. I know that the Pentecostal church really pushes it because they believe that speaking in tongues (ie: what they think is a 'heavenly language', and not an actual language) is an outward sign that shows that you are baptized with the Holy Spirit. They believe that being baptized with the Holy Spirit comes later after salvation (not with it). But what I really think that's going on is that they get the lights just right, the music just right, and then they conjure up an emotion to get people in 'ecstasy' thinking that they have a 'spiritual experience.' I speak from experience on the whole issue... I used to go to a Pentecostal church and be into that stuff. But after actually reading my bible and studying, and I read that church is about worshipping the true God and not gratifying the flesh. In other words.... I don't go there to please myself and "get into" worship. I go there to worship God by really THINKING about what Christ did for me and singing praises to Him where my heart "accompanies" the words (Ephesians 5:19). This is done by thinking and not acting on pure emotion. Emotion isn't bad... it just shouldn't be out of control without any thought involved. I know what Christ did for me and I want to think about that and praise God during church worship... he took the punishment that I deserved for my sins, and I am eternally grateful!

I hope that clarifies the issue!

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Wow. Thats all I can say right now. I have heard all these explanations and accusations but today. Today - You made a very open and seemiingly true and non complicated answer. I have never seen such wisdom as you have show today when you answered this question and I trully appreciate it. I just wish there were more people like you in life to explain faith and chrisitianity it would probably be so much easier to believe and be a christian (or any other religion. It makes perfect sense when you say Tongues were meant to be like the spirit taking control of you mouth and say you only ever speak English you are around people from France you open your mouth to preach and out can the gospel in fluent french and that way the french will understand the word you are preaching and hence be saved. This is a so much more practical answer to the Tongues thing and I think I have gained more understanding because of this post then my whole life going to church and never trully understanding what Tongues really were or what they were menat to achieve. Thank you for the post and your patience in explaining this.You rock :)

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Your very welcome mandla!

 

May I ask, and I really do not mean to be unnecessarily offensive in any way, how long have you attended the church that you are at now? In Hosea 4:6, it states, "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge." The prophet Ezekiel says this:

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 'Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock.' (Ezekiel 34).

In many places in scripture, leaders of God's people are compared to "shepherds" and the people are compared to the "flock." It is very important to go to a church that is very careful to teach scripture. Many people in the church today are very ignorant (not in a mean way, but that they really don't know) about what the bible says because many leaders in the churches don't teach them (or they themselves do not know). God does not take this very lightly (as you can see in Ezekiel 34). Maybe talk to the pastor in your church and ask him some of the questions that you have been thinking about. You asked a question online, here in this forum, and that is a great thing to do, but it's good to go to a church where you feel comfortable talking to a trustworthy pastor or elder about questions that you have. Know what I mean?

 

I just wish there were more people like you in life to explain faith and chrisitianity it would probably be so much easier to believe and be a christian (or any other religion.

Well.... I would have to say that Christianity isn't easy to believe (apart from God's grace):

19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed (John 3)

The "Light" that John is speaking of is Jesus. Wayyyyyy back in the Old Testament, the prophet Isaiah had a vision and he saw God in all His glory in the temple. He became very frightened and exclaimed: "'Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts.'" Isaiah saw and understood his own sinfulness, and how he is unworthy of being in the presence of a Holy God. Before I became a Christian, I had a hard time with the idea that I was sinful. I thought that I was good. But in Isaiah 64:6, it states that all of our righteousness are as "filthy rags." So by coming in the light of God's word, it exposed who I really was... a sinner... but it wasn't until I saw who I was and understood who God was did I become a Christian. Even though it is hard to accept "criticism" about myself, it helped me to understand the truth that God is a good God and that the Father sent his son, Jesus (fully God and fully man) to take the punishment that I deserve for my sins. Jesus bore the full weight of God's wrath (Isaiah 53) in my place. And so I trust in that, and not in my so-called "goodness," and repented and turned from my sins. Who else could pay for my sins? As the Apostle Peter says to Jesus: "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68)

 

I went to church my ENTIRE LIFE, and NEVER understood that until a little over 3 years ago. Can you believe that?! I was always told that "Jesus died on the cross for my sins" but I really had no idea WHY he had to die, and what really happened on the cross. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I used to go to a church where I would hear preaching week after week, and yet nobody REALLY explained the bible to me. It's partially my fault too... I didn't really read it much. But now I'm going to an awesome church where our pastor really cares for his "flock" and takes the time to answer questions that we have. I hope that you will have that too!

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In my church there are a lot of people that speak in tongues and I always question about the real mean of these manifestations. Is this truth? or this is only a trick and the people only trying to imitate to the other people. My grandmother is a great christian and she have never spoke in tongues. She said me that the Lord doesn?t bless her with this gift. So I never speak in tongues but there are a lot of brothers that speak in tongues everyday in their orations.Maybe there are a lot of misteries in all the world and we only can require to the faith. This is the answer for this misterie.

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What ever, the simple answer that i would say is , For it is Written in the Bible, Speaking in Tongues is of the Holy Spirit. One who is anointed by the spirit alone can do so. And i tell you and every one that do not ever criticize that. I have seen many people even my own friends criticizing that, it is really very harmful and dangerous if some one criticize another who speaks in tongues. For it is clearly written in the Bible that "He who speaketh a word against the Son of man it shall be forgiven for him, but He who speaketh a word against the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven not only in this world but also in the world to come". This is self explanatory that why one should not talk anything against some one who speaks in tongue, it simply means that the same is speaking against the Holy Ghost. And the Bible clearly records how bad the impact is . The Son is or Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who died for us on the Cross , who shed his innocent blood for our sins, the Bible says if some one speaks against such a great person itself then it will be forgiven for him. But when Jesus left the earth, He said my Spirit i give it to you which is the Holy Spirit and just think How importance is given to the Holy Spirit saying that if some one speaks against the Spirit it shall not be forgiven forever. So take this as a caution and never ever even attempt to speak against the Holy Ghost and tell all your friends too. Have a Blessed Life.

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i have been a Christian for years but now that Im grown up Ive come to question some of the things we do as Christians. I know that religions differ so bear with me if your religion does not speak in tongues.
The bible mentions things about getting filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. but my questions whether the tongues are real or not and how come they all sounds so different and you feel under pressure at church to speak in tongues. I just wanna know if this is something that churches do just to create their own identity. Does anyone know more about tongues and stuff. I would appreciate some open minded answers unlike the other religions that will accuse me of being demonic or evil or satan filled just because I dared to ask lol


If you're supposed to speak tongues by first being filled with the Holy Spirit, I don't see why they should pressure you to. After all, it's something that takes time to happen. And if you don't, I wouldn't worry about it.

(This is why I have problems with churches. It seems churches are more demanding than Jesus himself! But that's my little rant.)

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For me its been a while since i went to church I dont know what to believe anymore. I havce been through a lot and God hasnt trully been by my side to be honest. Please dont tell me about the footsteps in the sand, it is a beautiful poem but in my life it doesnt apply because \i know for a fact that \god dont care about me or rather maybe \im not a part of his family so he does not need to do me any favours. I also have a question if its okay with you that i stray slightly from the original topic about tongues but what does the holy spirit have to do with the falling down when prayed for. i know the bible says about being slain in the spirit but tell me its like a game a wave thats swept across churches. its not always been the case. it was like one period it was the in thing now its all faded. Some churches still do it but its not that vast now like before. Was this a phrase in christianity or was the falling down backwards thing a big exagerration.

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What ever, the simple answer that i would say is , For it is Written in the Bible, Speaking in Tongues is of the Holy Spirit. One who is anointed by the spirit alone can do so. And i tell you and every one that do not ever criticize that.

Why should one not criticize what is ridiculous? Actually, a better question is why do people think that religious practices are above criticism in general? Nothing should be above criticism, that is the hallmark of dictatorships. If people think something is wrong, or that something should be changed then those people should be heard, whether you agree with them or not. This is the only way to avoid dogma, which should be avoided at all costs.

I understand that this conflicts with your religious views, and that is because you prescribe to a dictatorial system. Like I said, suppressing criticism is dictatorial, and believing that the words of god are inerrant makes god a dictator. Whether or not you like this has no bearing on the truth, but of course prescribing to a belief in an inerrant dictator leaves little room (or concern) for truth.

But what is truth, lets talk about that for a while. Before we define truth we need to understand the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. Something that is objective exists independent of any person or animal or, more generally, any consciousness. Conversely, something that is subjective depends on the existence of a person, animal, or, in general, a conscious entity. Let me restate that, objective reality does not depend on the existence of a conscious entity, while subjective existence depends on the existence of the same. You might think that anything that you can detect with your five senses qualifies as objective reality, but this is not always the case. In fact, you cannot trust your own senses to tell you what actually exists in objective reality and what does not, this is because your senses are nothing but neural impulses interpreted by your brain, and they can be tricked. An example of this is the effect of hallucinogenic or psychedelic drugs, but there are many others. You might ask how we determine what is objectively true and what is not if we cannot even trust our five senses, and the strict, literal, answer to that is that we don't. HOWEVER, we can increase the probability that what we are sensing actually exists by the mutual experience of the thing in question. That is, the more people that can share in and thus independently confirm the experience of the object the higher the probability that the object actually exists. So if you see a chair, and can feel a chair with your hands, and can smell the wood of that chair, there is a reasonable probability that that chair actually exists, but you still cannot say FOR CERTAIN that it does, because you could be hallucinating those experiences. If you then invite a friend to observe the chair, and they agree with your perception of that chair, then you have just increased the probability that the chair exists because it would unlikely that both of you are having a similar hallucination at the same time. If you then invite the entire town over and they all agree with you then it is all but certain that the chair exists, but even now, even if everyone in the world agrees, there is still room for doubt... consider a matrix-esque scenario for example.

So what is the meaning of all of that, you might ask. Well, philosophy is all well and good but to do ANYTHING in life you have to make some assumptions, and one of those assumptions that we make is that subjective experiences of things that are confirmed by others are considered to be objectively true. It is important to understand that we must make this assumption to learn ANYTHING about the nature of our own existence, but it is ONLY an assumption, it is not necessarily true.

So let me take this understanding of the difference between objective and subjective and tie it back to the nature of truth. Just like objective and subjective experience there is also objective and subjective truth. Objective truth is that which is true regardless of the presence or absence of conscious entities while subjective truth is only true in the context of a conscious entity. An example of objective truth is the chair from the last example (remember, we are assuming it exists, despite the existence of the possibility that it does not.), while an example of subjective truth would be your feelings toward another individual. Your feelings toward, say, your mother, only exist in the context of your conscious mind. If you died, the feelings you have toward your mother would no longer exist, because you no longer exist. Here you can see the dependent relationship between your existence and the existence of your thoughts, this dependence is what makes thoughts and feelings subjective truths, they are only true to you, they only exist because you do.

Speaking in tongues is a subjective truth. Not the action itself, but the motivation and the mental state that one must be in to partake in this ritual only exists in the brains of those who do so, the experience is only true for them, it is not objectively true. This is the nature of all such experiences, they are true to the people having them alone, and are the result of nothing brain chemistry.

What I am saying, if you haven't really been following me, is that speaking in tongues (when not consciously faked, which I suspect it often is) is akin to a hallucination, there is nothing more to it, there is no mystical power involved, it is horseshit.

I have seen many people even my own friends criticizing that, it is really very harmful and dangerous if some one criticize another who speaks in tongues.

No, what is harmful and dangerous is giving up control of your own mental faculties to the point that you would be subject to these subconscious hallucinations. It is like smoking peyote, only the hallucination is brought on by exciting chemicals that already exist in the brain (through delusions of grandeur, physical excitement and stimulation, and the release of adrenaline) instead of by introducing them from outside sources.

For it is clearly written in the Bible that "He who speaketh a word against the Son of man it shall be forgiven for him, but He who speaketh a word against the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven not only in this world but also in the world to come".

It is also clearly written in the bible that you cannot beat your slaves to death, but if they get up after a day or two after the beating then you are okay.... oh you ignore that part of your holy book, just like the bishops at the first council of Nicea in the year 325 AD who decided which gospels would be put into the bible and which would be discarded and forever forgotten. Such freedom your god gives you, to choose which divinely inspired writings to pay attention to and which to ignore.

The Son is or Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who died for us on the Cross

Let me tell you a little something about the son. The son (henceforth referred to as the "sun"), dies on the cross and is later resurrected. Easter marks the date of the resurrection, while christmas marks the date of the suns birth. I am sure you know all that, but let me tell you the rest of the story. Lets start with christmas, which is a couple days after the winter solstice. If you don't know, the winter solstice is the shortest day of the year, for the prior 6 months (since the summer solstice, the longest day of the year) the days become shorter and shorter, with the sun spending less and less time visible in the sky each day. In the northern hemisphere the sunset moves further and further south each day starting from the summer solstice until it sets at its furthest southern point on the date of winter solstice december 22nd, directly beneath the southern cross constellation. The movement of the sunset on the horizon pauses here for a period of three days. After the realization of the shortest day of the year and the metaphorical death of the sun we witness its glorious rebirth on december 25th when the sunset appears to move one degree further north on the horizon, signifying the lengthening of days and the coming of spring. This event, the rebirth of the sun on the 25th, is marked by the brightest star in the sky, Sirius (also known as the star in the east), which is directly aligned with the "Three Kings" of the Orions Belt constellation to point to the exact location of the sunrise on the horizon.

One more time: The sun dies on the cross (the southern cross constellation), and is resurrected after three days. The birth of the sun is marked by the star in the east (Sirius), which is followed by the three kings (of the orions belt constellation) to the exact location (on the horizon) of the birth of the sun.

This is a remarkable coincidence.... if you are wholly ignorant of the history of religious tradition. In fact, these astronomical signs are directly responsible for the myths of several dozen different religions throughout ancient history, most notably is that of the egyptian god Horus and the Zoroastrian god Mithra, who share almost the EXACT SAME myth of birth, crucifixion, and resurrection as Jesus Christ.

So take this as a caution and never ever even attempt to speak against the Holy Ghost and tell all your friends too. Have a Blessed Life.


The holy ghost is not real, the idea is ridiculous and should rightfully be subject to ridicule.

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There are several gifts of the Spirit, see 1 Corinthians chapter 12.

 

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal .

 

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom ;

 

to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

 

to another faith by the same Spirit ;

 

to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 

to another the working of miracles ;

 

to another prophecy ;

 

to another discerning of spirits ;

 

to another divers kinds of tongues ;

 

to another the interpretation of tongues:

 

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will . For the body is one, and has many members,

Edited by Sheffield (see edit history)

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For me its been a while since i went to church I dont know what to believe anymore. I havce been through a lot and God hasnt trully been by my side to be honest. Please dont tell me about the footsteps in the sand, it is a beautiful poem but in my life it doesnt apply because \i know for a fact that \god dont care about me or rather maybe \im not a part of his family so he does not need to do me any favours.
I also have a question if its okay with you that i stray slightly from the original topic about tongues but what does the holy spirit have to do with the falling down when prayed for. i know the bible says about being slain in the spirit but tell me its like a game a wave thats swept across churches. its not always been the case. it was like one period it was the in thing now its all faded. Some churches still do it but its not that vast now like before. Was this a phrase in christianity or was the falling down backwards thing a big exagerration.


That was the Toronto Blessing and I believe it was false.

I have also experienced hardship in my life and although I couldn't see it at the time, God brought me through it wonderfully, but it is only with hindsight that I can see this. The two ocassins when this happened were when I strayed from the Lord and was disobedient, I suffered for my sin and I tried everything in my power but to no avail, then one day I got down on my knees and cried out in agony, "Not my will Lord, but thy will be done" and I surrendered myself to him completely to do with whatever he wanted.

I got up and I was filled with a sense of peace and after that where people had been against me, I started to get letters from my solicitor with little bits of good news for a change and eventually everything worked out in a way I could never have done it. But I had to give myself over to him unreservedly and that was hard and apart from one other time, for which I have paid the penalty and rightly so, I have always tried to be obedient to his word.

I wish you well my friend.
Edited by Sheffield (see edit history)

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Hello,I am by no means a religion expert, or anything of that sort. However, I have come to know the true meaning of speaking in tongues. And in fact, the way most churches treat it, it is indeed just a pressure. Just a pressure, but what happened at Pentacost was real. And Christ said, the Spirit is not just for the apostles, it is for all those who believe on Christ's name. Though we must figure out what kind of spirit it is. One thing to note is that when the Spirit came down, speaking in tongues was not the only thing. There was prophecying. There was reminding of what Christ had said. There was receiving power. And true baptist of the Spirit embodies all these. For a long time I spoke in tongues, just like everyone at my church, and I had the Spirit with me. But apparently I did not have the Spirit *in* me. I did not know it was the Holy Spirit, it was the Spirit which leads to a holy life, life without sin. It was the spirit which was to lead to perfection in Christ. But yes, tongues are definitely a manifestation of the Spirit. But not evidence thereof. A lot more is required to be convinced that the Spirit is there.

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