God Cares For You ! So do not loose heart

[truefusion 3]

For this statement I would Like to say maybe where you are this doesnt happen a lot but in my experience most christians I have spoken too have actually reacted quite badly in response to stuff like this. Notice I always say in my experience because I dont wanna cause anyone to stumble in their christian walk. When I say statement like I for example If I said I dont think god exists. I am not saying in your life or that mine is real gospel Im talking bout what I believe in my life and circumstances. I know most people tend to say YOU CHRISTIANS ARE LIARS BECAUSE GOD DONT EXIST or something like that. Lets not get too technicall on the exact statement but just a rough idea. This kind of talk is something which is wrong. One should speak about what is personal to them and say In my Life I dont see GOD exisitng. But then if i told many a christian that they would tell me I am a fool. This might probably be the right thing to say to me according to the bible. seeing as it says something like he that says the is no GOD is a fool or something along those lines I cant remember the exact term or phrase but do we realise that that actually telling someone that they are a fool because they dont believe GOd exists only comes out as hostility when challenged. when someone says that you are a fool according to how I was raised thats an insult and it would only bring resentment from me. Yes different people will have different understanding of statements like that but when two religions are trying to have a discussion that probably should lead to better understand of one anothers views surley there are less confrontational ways of getting this done.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't like going around asking others for help; i prefer to be independent in this area, doing my own research and study. Seeking help is practically a last resort for me. So, yeah, it may be the case that since i haven't pretended to be an unbeliever to test the competence of another believer, that i have not run into a believer who has responded bluntly. Nevertheless, from what i have observed, whenever i see a believer acting in a way that unbelievers would without hesitation confront them for it, it was because what they were addressing was a statement from an unbeliever that included mockery, sarcasm and other things that could insult anyone.
Could you blame us for reacting a bit harsh to unbelievers when we are so used to receiving mockery and other forms of insults from those who are against our faith who have said some of the same things you have said? And don't forget the impression they give off that obviously shows that they believe we are fools. Some unbelievers are so emotional that in attempting to hold back their emotions, that the longer they speak, the harder it is for them to hold their patience. You can hear it in their voice and see it in their face how hard they are trying. It is good that they are trying, though, even if it was for that one instance.

But you say "in response to stuff like this." That just makes me wonder about the conversation that went on. But i don't think it is the case that you are worried about others losing faith. For to ask the question "why didn't God care for me when i needed Him the most?" or to bring up other concerns that has lead to your disbelief can have the same effect on others. But don't worry so much about people having their faith tested, especially with me. Believe it or not, i am one seeks out these kind of things; helps me keep "up to date"—though some may call this dangerous. But if people didn't have their faith tested, how could they tell how strong their faith is?

Saying "i don't see God in my life" is different than "God doesn't exist," for the former acknowledges God's existence while the other denies it completely. And the verse you are referring to is in the Psalms (Psalm 14:1). Yeah, i can see why that verse would be found to be insulting; however, that is one of the verses i found interest in and tried to figure out why it says such. But i took a different path in my study by disregarding the context temporarily. I have concluded that it is because there is enough evidence out there for His existence, and this fits the context of the verse. This, of course, made me wonder what is their evidence.

Reading Paul claim that unbelievers are without excuse since the evidence is within creation itself made me realize what and how i should formulate my arguments for God's existence. So as it stands, God's existence is proven through His works, be it in our own lives, through the lives of others, or the universe itself.

I believe the reason we are unbelievers is cause we trully mis understand the answers we have. because if we still understood the unswers the same way christians understood then I doubt we would have left the faith. Because to be honest I dont really know why God Loves Us. Is it because we are his children. lets assume I have this correct so far, But then here is where my problem or rather the seed of my disbelief then comes in. If he loves me because I am his child, then why am I going through the things I am say why would he let my kids all die in a car accident all at once. Yes maybe to you it might be a simple answer but to the one going through it the answer might be clouded by pain and anger and hopeless ness and that feeling of god deserting us. and telling me simply that its god pla wont cut it becuase I will wonder why GODs plan would be so horrible. Cause remember its not easy to change a christians heart. So for something to have an impact it must have been something major I shoud think.

I don't say it is God's plan, because i cannot prove it to be so. And unless God told you Himself, then there may be no reason to say so. But a lot of people tend to label things as "evil" when they really aren't. If it hurts, then they may call it evil, but pain itself isn't enough to call something wrong. All i know is that being protected from evil or harm isn't necessarily a promise declared by God. Sure, Proverbs and other Biblical books may mention that you may sleep well at night and have little to nothing to fear, but i feel these verses are misunderstood, for they are not stated as a promise. Rely on what Scripture says, not what people tell you—this is why i prefer to do my own research.
A lot of people wonder why there is a lot of evil in the world. But how obvious does it have to be for someone to realize the answer to such a question? It is because people tend to seek evil more than they do good. And when evil is committed, it is always apparent enough to where practically all good is forgotten. And the news doesn't help either; there is not a day that goes by where some evil act isn't broadcasted. People wonder why God doesn't put an end to all evil. As if it were impossible to obtain such an answer from Scripture.

I don't believe God cares about how everyone thinks of Him. You can't please everyone, and i wouldn't say that pleasing everyone is of top priority—especially since a lot of people wish for things that they shouldn't be wishing for. Nevertheless, it pleases God to provide for His creation, so long as it is within His will. We know that God gives everyone a chance to repent, but God also doesn't punish someone without them first committing an act worthy of punishment. You don't have to like this method of doing things, but whether or not we like it is irrelevant to His existence.

I do not know if the incident about all your children dying happened for real or if it is an example, but i will say this: While you (or whoever) might find this as insulting or something said out of ignorance or whatever, if you believed in God and knew that He existed, then there shouldn't be much to worry about. Yeah, if i lost a loved one it would hurt due to selfish reasons, but even i would be reminded that God exists.

There are many reasons why God loves us, but consider the following verse: John 16:27. Not saying that is the only reason why He loves us, but more of that the answer can most certainly be found in the Bible.

I will respond and say my situation was not a 3month situation but a situation that lasted almost 5 years. I prayed, fasted, did everything that is required of me and even had my whole church praying for me for 3 of the years and I think God's decision was A No seing as you suggested that god makes the final decision. Now I then ask myself why would God take me on a wild goose chase telling me if I believe and pray and do this and that according to the word, what i ASK I WILL RECEIVE. yet at the end f the day it come down to a yes or no on his part he may as well not have wasted my time and i knew from the start that GOD might still say No after all this. MAybe if he'd done it that way my faith would not have been shaken. To be frank my faith in GOD used to be unshakeble. and before you call me a liar because the truth is at the end of the day my faith proved to be shakeable let me just remind you that in life or rather an example would be a marriage you vow till death do us part and 10 years down the line you catch them in bed with another. you may forgive and move on and stick to the vows but if it carries on happening again anad again we all know that at one point we would say I was blind but now I think it times to say enough is enough. Which is the same with what happened in my christian walk. I got to a time where I thought this isnt what I signed up for. I know i didn't become a christian to get stuff from GOd. But Hey im only human and at times just once in my life I wanted god to step in and do something supernatural that he wasnt doing for every one else eg letting me wake up alive in the morning because every other non christian including me right now is getting that same privilage. I just wanted help cause I was at the lost point I could be and I just needed a helping hand but GOd just ignored me or said NO.

You didn't lose your faith at the end of those 5 years, you started losing faith at the beginning. It may be the case that it is hard to convince someone out of the faith completely, maybe even more so if they were believers for a long time, but it also depends on why they came to believe in the first place. But i am interested in knowing the exact verses you relied on that told you what exactly was required of you, though i can take a guess concerning the one about "ask, and you will receive."
Of course, God isn't just going to fulfill just any prayer. I do not know exactly what you prayed for, but i stating that God has the last say in things doesn't mean that He responded with a "no." When i first became a believer i had prayed for wisdom. Obviously, i wouldn't expect to have obtained wisdom over night, but i did hope that it would come pretty quick. However, i didn't receive something that i would call wisdom until after at least two years from asking. I don't remember asking more than once at that time, but i still ask for more today, though it may be the case that with more wisdom comes more grief.

I have asked for other things, too. I cannot say i have received them, let alone deserve to receive them, or that i should receive them. But for many of them, though i didn't request for evil things, i am glad that i have yet to receive many things that i have prayed for. And if i don't ever receive them, it doesn't matter in the end. Just like Paul has managed to be content in everything, i can manage too, for all we have to do is realize what really matters in this life. God comes first, everything else will fall into place.

[shadowx 0]

I bet if christians had that power there would be alot of people who by now would have been got rid off.

Well christians did have that power once, several hundred years ago, the time when they went around killing everyone. i think they forgot to write that down in the bible... how silly of them.

Christianity is an EVIL religion (*note, the term evil, when used by me is interchangeable with "morally corrupt and wrong, causing harm and/or distress").

i have been through this in the other thread. The pope is a nazi (ex member of the hitler youth, but i guess he said sorry so it's ok, either that or its ok because the jews killed jesus so the pope was just trying to set things right.. (Note, this is sarcasm. It is NOT right)), the christians probably have one of the highest body counts of all religions. You dont believe? Ok, we will kill you. Probably by drowning, but hanging in you are lucky, maybe stoning... (why are we at war with the east at the moment? Basically its a religious war, the extremists think non-believers should be killed etc.... This is just what the christians done but then again, its not in the bible so it didnt happen....)

Christians actively condemn non-believers and homosexuals to their hell, did your god give you this right? No, so shut the hell up!

The bible has missing books or gospels, these gospels tell how (i think) Jesus had a female partner and various other characters in this sweet little story werent what the church wanted, so they just missed those pages out of the finished bible. yeh, nice one. "Your holiness, we have some er...pages that dont quite match up, what should we do with them?" *Five minutes later the pope sits beside a roaring fire* "Much warmer! Guards, kill him. He knows too much".

The Davinci code... A story, a fictional story... So why did the church get so angry, did somebody touch a nerve? Awww itll be ok, too bad you cant just have him executed like the good ol days eh? Aww

Christianity is a joke. It really is. If your god is real then he would be ashamed of the shambles that christians, as a group, have created. I am sure there would be those of you who he is proud of, but the vast majority would be laughed at while standing at the pearly gates... "Oh, so you hate homosexuals eh? Well they too are my children, and anyone who hates my children cannot exist here..." *trapdoor flips open, idiot falls into flames*

[shadowx 0]

Mods: Still cant edit my posts, has there been a change to the forum, if so can we have an announcement or sticky please

While i wait for fools to bash me...

"God cares for you"

Apparently not if you are a woman, Cor.14:34-35:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law....
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Well *theres* a just and fair religion. Nice one god, hate all the women, i mean women after all gave us the original sin, dirty little b**** how dare they speak in church? Filthy harlots!

all i can say is WHAT THE **** Nice religion you got going there. Real smooth and fair

I knew that Christians hated women anyway (and as an institution the church does) There was recently uproar when the first female bishop (i think it was a bishop) was appointed here in the UK, the church didnt like a woman having power.... Oh and then there is the huge law about the pope being a man and the fact that he is passed over the top of the congregation that witness his appointment as the blood stained hand of god purely so that they can look up his gown and see that he in fact does have a pair of testicles... God forbid a woman ever gets into the vatican...

I assume most of my previous post can be explained away as neither side has much evidence for the blatant murder that christians have committed, however. This passage is written directly in your bible which is meant to represent the teachings of god. Therefore your god hates women (according to the person that wrote the passage and those that adhere to it) hence the church, and many christians are against the word of god. Personally if i were god i would be ashamed of my creations who murder, rape pillage and subjugate in my name.

I await some devotee to attempt to prove me wrong. And dont say "the bible was written by man and man has faults" because that's an excuse and you know it. It may well be written in error but then consider why so many christians adhere to it with blind stupidity. Then i will accept your argument. (essentially im giving you two options here, accept the bible is full of rubbish or accept that most christians are stupid fools. To be honest, any other reply is an excuse and dodging the facts.

I try not to bash christians but when im faced with utter foolishness i am infuriated such as now.

Let me just re-iterate... Christians as individuals are generally good people. But your religion is a sham and your church is build on blood stained pillars by the hands of nazis, murderers and paedophiles. It is a shame to tarnish you all, i would ask that you dont take it personally (well, most of you anyway) but instead look at your leaders and your religion. And look inside yourself.

[truefusion 3]

Disregarding the other unsupported statements you have made, i will nevertheless respond to the following:

The bible has missing books or gospels, these gospels tell how (i think) Jesus had a female partner and various other characters in this sweet little story werent what the church wanted, so they just missed those pages out of the finished bible. yeh, nice one. "Your holiness, we have some er...pages that dont quite match up, what should we do with them?" *Five minutes later the pope sits beside a roaring fire* "Much warmer! Guards, kill him. He knows too much".

The Bible is a collection of authoritative books, songs, letters, et cetera; it cannot, therefore, lack other writings. Seeing that you mention the Davinci Code shortly after, it may be safe to assume that this false belief of yours has been inspired by it.

The Davinci code... A story, a fictional story... So why did the church get so angry, did somebody touch a nerve?

The author of the book, Dan Brown, whether in his book or publicly, has stated that the research his work is based on is true. Fictional or not, to make such a statement makes your writing appear true to some extent, though it really isn't. Anyone who has read these other works, such as myself, know that they are merely Gnostic texts and can never represent the truth concerning Christianity.

"Oh, so you hate homosexuals eh? Well they too are my children, and anyone who hates my children cannot exist here..." *trapdoor flips open, idiot falls into flames*

God would never say that, given the Biblical definition of "God's child" and other things.

Well *theres* a just and fair religion. Nice one god, hate all the women, i mean women after all gave us the original sin, dirty little b**** how dare they speak in church? Filthy harlots!

Do you have anything to say other than a straw man for this? I really don't see how women not being allowed to speak in church means hating women. That is a bit far-fetched. But that is some intense words you have been using.

This passage is written directly in your bible which is meant to represent the teachings of god.

Actually, it is not a direct command from God. Rather, it is a tradition that is being passed down from the culture. If you must read Corinthians entirely to know this, then go ahead.

And dont say "the bible was written by man and man has faults" because that's an excuse and you know it.

I won't, and nothing you have brought up i haven't already heard elsewhere.

[Parubilla 0]

Well I just think everyone will have a day to die, It wasn?t the day for those people. When your time comes you will slip on your kitchen with a banana peel and die as simple as that. Or you will go to sleep and never wake up. The day will come no matter what, so that?s why you have to live your days to the fullest.

[shadowx 0]

I see....

Well, its a well known fact that many mainstream religions such as christianity, judaism and islam dislike women and put them down constantly. Chrstianity isnt alone here.

Why would women not be allowed to speak in church? *why*?

Why is it a woman that caused original sin?

Why is it that the women in the bible (from my admittedly limited knowledge of it) are minor parts, often badly represented?

Why is it that the pope MUST be a man? The one time a woman did get in there was uproar.

Why is it that women cannot be bishops etc... and when it does happen everyone goes mental about it?

And why is god a male? Surely if he was all powerful and what not he would have no gender for to have gender is really to suggest that he plays a part in sexual reproduction or is the child of said reproduction.

Now, the davinci code.... Simply because the church does not like it does not make it false. Likewise just because i like it does not make it truth. I cant be bothered to search google (guess im going to hell on the account of sloth as well now...) i will let that one rest. Also partly because i suspect i wont find any concrete evidence for my claims.

Actually, it is not a direct command from God. Rather, it is a tradition that is being passed down from the culture. If you must read Corinthians entirely to know this, then go ahead.

Exactly!! So why follow its word to the letter. I know you have the sense to research much of what is said in the bible, however, many other christians, including some in the two threads we have going at the moment, regard its word as law as though it was written by their god, this is foolishness as you yourself just stated, the bible is written by man and the dominant culture at the time. it is NOT a representation of the christian god and probably has no basis is truth either. But fools continue to adhere to its every word without questioning, without thinking.

Why?! Fear! (any religion where you need to fear your god is just ridiculous anyway)

God would never say that, given the Biblical definition of "God's child" and other things.

I am unaware of the biblical definition of which you speak, however my point was to show that if the christian god is real he would probably be most displeased with the hate that christianity spreads and contains and which its followers preach (not all, but most).

[shadowx 0]

Hold press, theres more:Deuteronomy 22: 13-21Basically states that if you were to take a wife, and she tells you she is a virgin, but then you think she isnt a virgin and you cant find any proof that she was when you married her she should be stoned to death in front of her fathers door.Nice one.Why not check if the man is a virgin too? Oh yes... Because men are better than women... Doi! *slaps head* im so silly...Again.. The bible preaches hate and inequality. Nice.(and i am aure someone will bring up some rubbish about the fact it doesnt say that but it does. Ive just read the passage in two different forms. If the man decides he doesnt like his wife, and she cant prove she was a virgin when they married then she should be slowly tortured to death via stoning. Real smooth, and yet if the man is wrong he gets a small fine. Real equal there.Basically the woman gets stoned to a painful death for lying about her virginity, but if the man lies about his wife he gets a fine.

[truefusion 3]

Well, its a well known fact that many mainstream religions such as christianity, judaism and islam dislike women and put them down constantly. Chrstianity isnt alone here.

I believe it is more along the lines that it is a fact that people say such a thing more than it is the case.

 

[1]Why would women not be allowed to speak in church? *why*?

 

[2]Why is it a woman that caused original sin?

 

[3]Why is it that the women in the bible (from my admittedly limited knowledge of it) are minor parts, often badly represented?

 

[4]Why is it that the pope MUST be a man? The one time a woman did get in there was uproar.

 

[5]Why is it that women cannot be bishops etc... and when it does happen everyone goes mental about it?

 

[6]And why is god a male? Surely if he was all powerful and what not he would have no gender for to have gender is really to suggest that he plays a part in sexual reproduction or is the child of said reproduction.

To digress for a moment, it is not surprising to see that a lot of your claims target the Catholic faith alone. I don't have anything against Catholics, but i do notice that unbelievers strike their ways more than other denominations.

 

[1] I have not figured out why, but it appears to be obvious that is a statement said from experience.

 

[2] Original sin is a topic all on its own. But Biblically, people are responsible for their own deeds (proof for this can be found in Deuteronomy, unless i'm mistaking it with Leviticus, and Ezekiel); the only time someone is responsible for the deeds of others is when they were the cause of the others' deeds. Therefore, in the case of Adam and Eve, since the devil was the one that caused it to happen, the devil is responsible for Adam and Eve's eating of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.

 

[3] I have read the majority of the Bible, and i do not know of any instance that has made women in general look bad that is part of the core of Christianity or Judaism.

 

[4] I do not know of any information in the Bible that talks about any pope. There is information that talks about priesthood, but not on a level of the pope.

 

[5] Biblically, Bishops were designated to be men—it is a position for men. The wife of a Bishop, or women in general, play a different role within the church. Women of such authority in the church were (are) supposed be a guiding light for the young(er) women. They are supposed to teach the young women self-control, how to be a good mother and wife, et cetera. Bishops or other men in authority were (are) to take care of managing the church. The letters to Timothy, and probably elsewhere, explain the requirements for being eligible for becoming a Bishop, or a man with authority within the church.

 

[6] There is no evidence within the Bible that suggests that God is a male. While He does have characteristics that fit only males, and while we may say "He" or "Him," Genesis nevertheless mentions that both men and women are made in God's image. This means the terms "man" and "woman" deal with something entirely different from the spirit. The only reason why anyone would claim that a spirit is a man or a woman is because the people who knew them knew them as such (as a man or a woman), due to their physical attributes; it is not because the spirit itself bears any traits that specify that it is male or female.

 

As a FYI: The word "Adam" is Hebrew for "man." It is not always rendered "man" for sake of clarity. The word "woman" is of similar source, the Biblical analogy being Genesis 2:23.

 

[1]Now, the davinci code.... Simply because the church does not like it does not make it false. Likewise just because i like it does not make it truth. I cant be bothered to search google (guess im going to hell on the account of sloth as well now...) i will let that one rest. Also partly because i suspect i wont find any concrete evidence for my claims.

 

[2]Exactly!! So why follow its word to the letter. I know you have the sense to research much of what is said in the bible, however, many other christians, including some in the two threads we have going at the moment, regard its word as law as though it was written by their god, this is foolishness as you yourself just stated, the bible is written by man and the dominant culture at the time. it is NOT a representation of the christian god and probably has no basis is truth either. But fools continue to adhere to its every word without questioning, without thinking.

 

Why?! Fear! (any religion where you need to fear your god is just ridiculous anyway)

 

 

[3]I am unaware of the biblical definition of which you speak, however my point was to show that if the christian god is real he would probably be most displeased with the hate that christianity spreads and contains and which its followers preach (not all, but most).

[1] Gnostic texts and similar sources contradict the core of the Abrahamic religions. For example, many Gnostic writings that claim to bear some ties with Christianity claim that there is more than one true God. I don't remember exactly which writing it was, but one of them even went as far as to say that Jehovah and Yahweh (or YHWH) represent two different gods. And i think it also said that Eden was a goddess that the other gods were fighting over.

 

You can also pretty much tell they are Gnostic writings due to their emphasis on "being one with wisdom" (they tried to link Jesus's statement in the Gospel of John of "being one with God" to this), their use of words like "Sophia," "Aion," and others, et cetera.

 

[2] I do not remember stating (or implying) that is a stupid act (especially from the part you are addressing). But do you think they would have gone out to find sources that try to explain these things if they didn't question or doubt something within the text? While the sources themselves may or may not already bear that assumption (as these sources could just be notes made publicly from other research), i don't believe the one that searches should be declared a blind follower. Likewise, also note that after much research, questioning things is less and less a thing to be worrying about. For i'm sure that even you after coming to a full understanding of certain things would accept other things that you haven't done much research on, from the same sources.

 

As mentioned, research can increase trust. The trust gained can be the reason for following anything. Many churches i've been to do not follow these traditions. The one church i've been to that at least followed the tradition of women covering their heads, there was nothing observable that insisted on it. In fact, not everyone in the crowd did it, and i saw no one complaining to them about it. Rather, they did it because they wanted to. Is it not the case that if you didn't want to do something, you would consider other options? So it is the case that they do these things because they want to, not because of fear.

 

[3] While it may be the case that those without faith that saves may be condemned, that is still not a reason to make it seem like practically almost every Christian is evil. But you can find the definition in the Gospel of John, chapter 1—if i'm not mistaken.

 

Hold press, theres more:

 

Deuteronomy 22: 13-21

 

Basically states that if you were to take a wife, and she tells you she is a virgin, but then you think she isnt a virgin and you cant find any proof that she was when you married her she should be stoned to death in front of her fathers door.

 

Nice one.

 

Why not check if the man is a virgin too? Oh yes... Because men are better than women... Doi! *slaps head* im so silly...

 

Again.. The bible preaches hate and inequality. Nice.

 

(and i am aure someone will bring up some rubbish about the fact it doesnt say that but it does. Ive just read the passage in two different forms. If the man decides he doesnt like his wife, and she cant prove she was a virgin when they married then she should be slowly tortured to death via stoning. Real smooth, and yet if the man is wrong he gets a small fine. Real equal there.

 

Basically the woman gets stoned to a painful death for lying about her virginity, but if the man lies about his wife he gets a fine.

Oh, joy, there's more.

 

How about reading further, say, up to verse 25? (I would say more, but i'm trying to refrain from sarcasm. Believe me, i am very tempted in saying something sarcastic. )

 

As a personal suggestion: Whenever you see a reference to Biblical verses in a (secular) source (that is in your favor), try to read ahead, or behind even. Not just verses, but chapters as well. It's helped me in debates.