The Gospel The Only Means of Salvation is Jesus Christ

[KansukeKojima 0]

Hello Xisto,

 

I wish to share the Gospel with you in this post, and if anyone is willing we can discuss what you have read here after. I tell you now that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and without Him you will die in your sins and you will be condemned - the full measure of the wrath of God will be poured out upon you for your sin. I post this knowing full well that many of you will not like what I have to say, but I am saying it anyways because the gospel has amazing power to change the hearts of men and bring salvation. Please realize that I do not speak about these things to gloat over you or to condemn you for the sake of condemning you. I am warning you about your fate if you do not trust Christ for salvation. It is my prayer that you will heed my warning and become a believer.

 

First, I will share my testimony with you. I grew up in an okay home and went to Church. By the age of about 10 years old, we had stopped going to church. I believed there was a God, but I really knew nothing of Him. I had not been told the Gospel, I was not aware of the true riches that lay in the scriptures and the glory of the Son of God. A few years down the road, my family began going to church again, and at an evangelical conference and I believe this is where God started to lead me down the path where I became a Christian. I do not know exactly at what point in my life my conversion occurred, but my faith is in Christ for salvation, I am repentant of sin and wish to live for Him. He is my Lord, and my God. I have become a new creation in Christ, my faith is in Him for my salvation. He is my God, and it is my desire to be His servant. I have seen a change in my life and I am studying the scriptures, and I desire to grow in my faith more. Before I had become a Christian, my heart was full of rage and discontent. I was not (and still remain not) a popular guy at school, and I was teased, etc. I was full of hatred for these people who had done things to me. As well, my stepfather was a massive thorn in my side. I actually had day-dreamed about killing him before. My heart was utterly wicked and I was full of sin. Since then, God has convicted me of the sinful way in which I thought and lived my life. He broke my heart over my sin and I have repented and began to live my life as a Christian with my hope in Jesus Christ for my salvation. Without Him, I would be lost and on the last day I would stand in front of God and be condemned for my sin. Christ took my sin upon Himself on the Cross.

 

I wish to speak to you about the nature of God. The God of scripture is a just, righteous, and loving God. There is a common argument against the Gospel and it goes like this: "If God is an all loving God, then why can't He just forget about our sin?". I would submit to you a demonstration of what justice is:

You walk in the door to your house and you see a man standing over your entire family with a bloodied knife. He has just murdered your whole family. He bolts out of the back door to your house and you chase after him, and tackle him to the ground. You bind him, and call the police - they come an arrest Him. On the day that he stand before the judge the judge says:

"I am a very loving judge, and so I will not hold the crimes you have committed against you. You are free."

You would cry out against the injustice that this judge has performed. You would mail representatives of government, you would send letters to the president. You would be utterly outraged and say that there is a judge on the bench who is more vile and wicked than the criminals he is judging.

 

The justice of God demands satisfaction. It demands that He punishes sin. However, He is still loving because He allows us a way to escape this justice. He poured out the full cup of His wrath on His own Son, Jesus Christ, so that we may have life. Christ took that cup of wrath and drank every drop so that we may be saved. He bore my sins on the cross so that I may have eternal life.

 

Now, I also wish to say to you that you are a wicked and evil person. I know that you are because I am like you. There are things in your life that you will never reveal to another living soul and if they were revealed you would be utterly ashamed of yourself. There are hateful, malicious thoughts that you have even thought against your friends! I know this because I am like you. All of us have committed sinful and utterly depraved acts. I know this because I am like you, and I have sinned. The bible says that none of us are righteous or good:

Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say: "There is no one who is righteous,

Rom 3:11 no one who is wise or who worships God.

Rom 3:12 All have turned away from God; they have all gone wrong; no one does what is right, not even one.

Rom 3:13 Their words are full of deadly deceit; wicked lies roll off their tongues, and dangerous threats, like snake's poison, from their lips;

Rom 3:14 their speech is filled with bitter curses.

Rom 3:15 They are quick to hurt and kill;

Rom 3:16 they leave ruin and destruction wherever they go.

Now I know that some will say, "but I have lived a good life". I tell you that no man has ever lived a good life except Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Everything we do is stained by sin because we are a walking contradiction. We are living this life completely depraved and our desires are 100% contradictory to what we have been created for. Everything we do, therefore, is entirely sinful because we are rebelling against God by not fulfilling our purpose.

 

So, we have this problem. We are utterly sinful, and God is completely just. It is fitting that in His justice we are punished for our sin and condemned. However, God is a loving God. So the problem is: "How can God justify man and still remain just?" He cannot just look over our sins:

Pro 17:15 Condemning the innocent or letting the wicked go---both are hateful to the LORD.

If He lets us go and simply forgets about our sin He is doing something that He hates.

 

The next thing I want to speak about is the man named Jesus Christ. We know that He claimed to be God:

Joh 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father; that is all we need."

Joh 14:9 Jesus answered, "For a long time I have been with you all; yet you do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. Why, then, do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Joh 14:10 Do you not believe, Philip, that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I have spoken to you," Jesus said to his disciples, "do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does his own work.

Joh 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. If not, believe because of the things I do.

There are three possibilities regarding the person of Jesus Christ:

1) He was a madman. If someone were to stand in the street and claimed that they were the Son of God, they would be considered outright crazy.

2) He was a liar. This would mean that He made up a bunch of stuff about being the Son of God.

 

Now, with these two possibilities lays a problem. We all know that Jesus Christ was a good man. He healed many people, He ate with sinners showing love to them by doing so. So we can all agree that Jesus was a good man (even by human standards). Now, here is the problem, if you are to say that Christ is a liar, then there is a problem with your logic. It is agreed that He was a good man, but liars are not good men, and neither are madmen. This leaves us with possibility three:

 

3) Jesus really was who He claimed to be: the Son of God. Everything that He said was true and He died for our sins on the cross. In Him was both divine and human nature.

 

Jesus Christ was crucified on a cross so that we may be saved. You ask, "How does that accomplish anything?". Jesus bore sin and took the wrath of God upon himself during that time he was crucified. Instead of us being punished for our sins, God poured out his wrath on his own Son, whom He sent to accomplish this. You ask, "How can one man pay for the sins of all?!". Jesus Christ is worth far more than every man put together who has ever existed - He IS God. If you totaled the value of everything that has and will exist in this universe it would not come close to anywhere near His worth.

 

This problem that was expressed before Has a solution. A just God must condemn wickedness. It is a requirement of His justice. However, God is a loving God, so He sent His own Son to die for us. He took our sin upon himself and was slaughtered under the wrath of God. This act, this unmatchable loving act, was done to satisfy the wrath of God which we deserved for our wickedness. The price was payed for us, and if you trust in Christ's sacrifice for salvation you will be saved. Christ was lifted up on a Cross and died for our sins, whoever believes in Him and puts their faith in His sacrifice shall be saved.

 

Joh 3:14 As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up,

Joh 3:15 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

The Gospel does not end there, however. After Christ had been crucified, He was resurrected on the third day after His death. He triumphed over death. This proves that He has the authority to lay down His life and take it back up again.

 

Joh 10:17 "The Father loves me because I am willing to give up my life, in order that I may receive it back again.

Joh 10:18 No one takes my life away from me. I give it up of my own free will. I have the right to give it up, and I have the right to take it back. This is what my Father has commanded me to do."

This proves that He truly is God and that He was worthy to die for our sins. His resurrection proves that He does have the authority to take his life back up again. In the same way, our sin can be nailed to the cross with Christ and the wrath of God be satisfied. In the same manner, we shall be raised to life again with Christ who Has triumphed over death and become new creations in Him as a result of the saving work which He did.

 

Act 3:19 Therefore, repent and turn to him to have your sins blotted out,

Repent (turn away from sins) and believe in the Gospel and the power of Jesus sacrifice for salvation. Begin to live your life for God. Believe in the Gospel and you will be saved. Trust in His sacrifice and that He took God's wrath upon Himself so that you could be saved.

 

I highly recommend and encourage that you read/watch these:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_&version=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searcamp;version=31;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searcamp;version=31;

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

Again, please post here if you wish to discuss this.

Edited July 22, 2009 by KansukeKojima (see edit history)

[RedAlert 0]

i have a hard time seeing the thought process behind an omnipotent being killing his son so he doesn't have to abide by rules of justice (which is an oxymoron - omnipotent beings are, by definition, unrestrained by things like justice)

[KansukeKojima 0]

i have a hard time seeing the thought process behind an omnipotent being killing his son so he doesn't have to abide by rules of justice (which is an oxymoron - omnipotent beings are, by definition, unrestrained by things like justice)

I am sorry I did not see this reply sooner.

 

The justice by which God abides in is not a force which is separate from Him and one which He has to submit to. It is part of Him. He IS just. By killing His own Son He is abiding by His own justice, His own nature. He would not "allow" Himself to justify us without the price for our sin being payed. It is in His nature to deal with sin. He is not restrained by justice, rather, it is part of His nature. An omnipotent being would be unrestrained by an outside force, but justice is part of His nature. We all act consistently with our nature, correct? We are not omniscient, it is not part of our nature, so therefore we cannot know all things. We act consistently within our nature, God acts consistently within His.

[RedAlert 0]

you don't seem to get it. He is basically "OK guys, because my son died NOW I can break my own rules." It makes absolutely no sense.If justice is really god's nature, then he has disobeyed his nature. You use circular logic when you say that it's OK for God to break his nature because God said this was a nature-breaking event. Why did god need to kill his son? Because he needed a price to be payed for sin. Why did he need a price to be paid for a sin? Because he said so. If he can just arbitrarily decided what counts, why did it have to be a horrible murder of a human being? Because he needed a price...It goes on and on.

[truefusion 3]

If justice is really god's nature, then he has disobeyed his nature. You use circular logic when you say that it's OK for God to break his nature because God said this was a nature-breaking event. Why did god need to kill his son? Because he needed a price to be payed for sin. Why did he need a price to be paid for a sin? Because he said so. If he can just arbitrarily decided what counts, why did it have to be a horrible murder of a human being? Because he needed a price...
It goes on and on.

Wouldn't the reason, in this case, why it goes on and on is because you would keep asking the same question over and over again even though it was already answered?

[anwiii 17]

you're going to hell

you don't seem to get it. He is basically "OK guys, because my son died NOW I can break my own rules." It makes absolutely no sense.
If justice is really god's nature, then he has disobeyed his nature. You use circular logic when you say that it's OK for God to break his nature because God said this was a nature-breaking event. Why did god need to kill his son? Because he needed a price to be payed for sin. Why did he need a price to be paid for a sin? Because he said so. If he can just arbitrarily decided what counts, why did it have to be a horrible murder of a human being? Because he needed a price...

It goes on and on.

you actually compared the bible and the word of god to a man made court of law? now i've heard it all haha i can appreciate your long winded post about something you don't fully understand your own self, but why all the assumptions about god? this is not heaven on earth. to truely know your god, if there is one, is to experience your life with him in his heaven. earth is not heaven. believe....maybe...but live like it is heaven or hell or or live afraid...being a god fearing person on earth? a story to scare small children. we are adults now. let's get real.

true, we are all sinners. nobody is perfect. god didn't intend for us to be nor did he create us this way just to ask forgiveness. what a lousy excuse for christian to wipe their slate clean. what he DID intend is for us to make our own moral choices and wether we are judged will be determined in the after life. until then, our choices will be our lifetime judgement and it is up to us...not god or believing in god, to make our wrongs, right.

i hear how god saved this person and that person. heck. their whole life is about god. they didn't do a darn thing to live their life. it was god living it for them. that's all a bunch of b.s. and so is your take on comparing natural law to unatural laws.

btw- if i saw someone standing over my family with a bloddy knife knowing he just killed them, when i catch up to him, i wouldn't be holding him down, i would be turturing him slowly until he died a painfull death...and guess what...i'm not afraid what god has planned for me if i do that. eye for an eye...there is no turning the other cheeck. i already admit i am a sinner. let the perfect god turn that cheeck rather than expect me to play the role of perfection. after i kill the s.ob, i will knowingly smile that he will have a chance to redeem himself in another life...as will i.

as i hope you already know, life doesn't stop at gods pearly gates. we live many lifetimes...many becasue we are not perfect and it takes that many lifetimes to achieve perfection.

now if there is indeed a god, he is inside us all as we live life through him...so let our self conscious be the judge as god will always be talking through it....

maybe some people actually NEED to be born again because they have such a messed up life. for the rest of us, i smile knowing i don't need to be....or preach something that nobody fully understands or capable of fully understanding. to each their own. rest assured, god wont be striking anyone down anytime soon. i applaud those that go with god. there is a lot to learn from him and the words spoken in the bible. but just like Xisto's rules, it's all just pure common sense to me and i won't be reading the bible anytime soon as it was preached to me til i was 15 years old. let me tell ya...i've heard enough

Hello Xisto,

[RedAlert 0]

Wouldn't the reason, in this case, why it goes on and on is because you would keep asking the same question over and over again even though it was already answered?

you're right, how could I be so naive! You aren't using circular logic, I'm asking circular questions! Makes perfect sense, just like how the jews did 9/11 and how noah chilled with dinosaurs.

[KansukeKojima 0]

you don't seem to get it. He is basically "OK guys, because my son died NOW I can break my own rules." It makes absolutely no sense.

Incorrect.

He is not breaking His own rules. By punishing sin through placing it on Christ He is fulfilling His justice, not breaking his own rules. He would be breaking His own rules if He simply ignored sin and did not punish it.

 

Read again what I said:

So, we have this problem. We are utterly sinful, and God is completely just. It is fitting that in His justice we are punished for our sin and condemned. However, God is a loving God. So the problem is: "How can God justify man and still remain just?" He cannot just look over our sins:

 

Pro 17:15 Condemning the innocent or letting the wicked go---both are hateful to the LORD.

If He lets us go and simply forgets about our sin He is doing something that He hates.

 

He is not circumventing His justice or breaking His own rules, He is abiding in His own justice by still punishing sin. By placing our sin on His Son, He can justify men and still be a just God.

 

If justice is really god's nature, then he has disobeyed his nature. You use circular logic when you say that it's OK for God to break his nature because God said this was a nature-breaking event.

Why did god need to kill his son? Because he needed a price to be payed for sin. Why did he need a price to be paid for a sin? Because he said so. If he can just arbitrarily decided what counts, why did it have to be a horrible murder of a human being? Because he needed a price...

 

It goes on and on.

How exactly did God trespass His nature by doing what He did? Justice was still satisfied. And, now, I already explained how He was not "breaking His own rules".

 

God did not need to kill His son. The price would have still been payed for sin whether or not Christ died - only it would have ended with our condemnation, instead. Out of love for us He decided to do this so that we do not have to suffer condemnation.

 

Now, you mention God arbitrarily deciding what is able to redeem us. So? By definition, since He is the highest authority, wouldn't everything He does be arbitrary? It has to be by definition. If this is how He decided it will work, then that is how it will work - no matter how arbitrary it is (which it has to be). This does not mean what God has decided is arbitrary in the sense that it is chaotic and randomly decided. It is a reflection of His holiness, justice, and righteousness. His laws and decrees, and the things He has decided and done are all in harmonious perfection. They do not contradict each other and they are perfectly consistent.

 

The reason God purposed that Christ die on a cross and bear our sin for us is so that He may demonstrate His love. Think about it. Christ died for sinners. It is possible that some might die for a good man, or a friend of theirs, but someone dying for a complete sinner? Someone who is utterly opposed to the things of God? That is a demonstration of the utmost love.

 

you actually compared the bible and the word of god to a man made court of law? now i've heard it all haha i can appreciate your long winded post about something you don't fully understand your own self, but why all the assumptions about god? this is not heaven on earth. to truely know your god, if there is one, is to experience your life with him in his heaven. earth is not heaven. believe....maybe...but live like it is heaven or hell or or live afraid...being a god fearing person on earth? a story to scare small children. we are adults now. let's get real.

So, I can't use an analogy?

 

Second of all, scripture does use the idea of God making judgments on people. This is very much like a "court of law". Only, the law isn't man made. I don't see the problem with me using that as well or making an analogy as such.

 

true, we are all sinners. nobody is perfect. god didn't intend for us to be nor did he create us this way just to ask forgiveness. what a lousy excuse for christian to wipe their slate clean. what he DID intend is for us to make our own moral choices and wether we are judged will be determined in the after life. until then, our choices will be our lifetime judgement and it is up to us...not god or believing in god, to make our wrongs, right.

 

i hear how god saved this person and that person. heck. their whole life is about god. they didn't do a darn thing to live their life. it was god living it for them. that's all a bunch of b.s. and so is your take on comparing natural law to unatural laws.

So how good a person we are determines if we are saved or not? I tell you that there is NOTHING we can do to be acceptable in God's sight. It is said in scripture that our greatest works are like filthy rags. In other words, they are worthless to save us. It isn't an excuse for to wipe our slates clean, it's the only hope we have to not be condemned.

 

as i hope you already know, life doesn't stop at gods pearly gates. we live many lifetimes...many becasue we are not perfect and it takes that many lifetimes to achieve perfection.

 

now if there is indeed a god, he is inside us all as we live life through him...so let our self conscious be the judge as god will always be talking through it....

If I "already [knew]" this and believed it, I wouldn't be a Christian. You hold a belief system which is not falsifiable so I cannot particularly refute it. However, what I will say is that we only have one life, and it is steeped in imperfection. If you do not repent of sin trust Christ for salvation, you will be lost. You will not get many chances to achieve perfection, it is unattainable.
Edited September 17, 2009 by KansukeKojima (see edit history)

[anwiii 17]

sure you can compare courts of law since you insist they are one and the same. i just have never heard it put that way and probably never will again unless you continue ito insist they are wortyh comparrision and...ummm....let's be a little frogg....a LITTLE bit the same. because what you are actually saying is that all eforceable unatural laws are christian ways. if i were a christian, i would be offended by your analogy. knowing the only laws i need to abide by are god's laws and no one person shall have the right to judge. if i wasn't a christian, i would smile knowing someone is trying really hard to try and make a point that will never work. so go ahead and make your anaolgy. you have every right to believe what you do.we are nothing if not flithy rags, huh? and you really believe this. so i now have my long awaited question answered and i didn't even have to ask where god fearing came from when your hopes is not to be condemned. i have agreed we are probably all sinners according toi the moral code of the bible, but what makes you think we are born sinners?to be a follower of god or a follower of anything else for that matter, you have to know what you are following, true? not just partly following or understanding partly....but fully understanding or it would be unwise to follow. so why do born agains seem to claim to know it all and understand fully? even when this is not heaven on earth. we can follwer after we pass on. we can see those gates of the lord and decide then if we need to be forgiven. those gates aren't here yet. what's the rush. why play god and try to follow perfection unless it IS an easy out for the sinners to ask for forgivenes in the hopes one is not condemened.many believe what you say and preach(i doubt the analogy about the courts though) and i also think this forum is good practice when decide to get on your bycycle and knock on peoples doors at 9am. what i don't understand...is if you already give in on not knowing everything about god and our purpose here on earth, then how does it make you look following such a theory. preaching is sometimes said that it should be a way of life/ why, if god is already inside us all nd in some forms we all should know it. are the ones preaching blessed with foresight or is it possibly just another excuse like the dog who god spoke through giving a certain human being the right to murder innocent human beings.just by preaching you are judging and assuming that god is not withinside us all and certain people need help. not trusting in god his own self that he will show himself after we pass on each lifetime to be judge by only him. who is giving you the right. the bible....because let's get real. god didn't kill his son and the books weren't written by god and not all people claimed that god was speaking through them when writting their books...and does it even say anywhere in the bible that no more books need be added?back in the day when there was no religions....it would be easy to convice people that they had a purpose through a god. heck. ones life now makes sense if it didn't make sense before. now, with so many religions, gods word gets confusing and confused by those who feel that THEY have the right to preach because THEY wont make it any less confusing. back in the day, it wasn't so and easier to believe in any religion that god may be a part of.i mean really...let's discuss this...because if it's every christians duty to preach the word of god. what exaclty is the word of god. is it only the words in the bible or do the lucky ones really have god speaking through them and can preach about things that aren't even written. the reason why i think your analogy was ridiculous was becasue if the bible is god's word, and god's word is the law, then we should all be in jail. it doesn't work like that thank god....and maybe gives you some more time to save people with a better analogy that actually works.you know it's really easy to say that if it's in the bible, it must be true. it's also easy to say that because there is a belief, one has to preach it and spread the word. the problem arises when so many people have so many beliefs. have you ever heard of humility. there is a lot to be said for NOT preaching....preaching insiuates pride to too much pride is even against god's ways....but just knowing ones self and living that life for ones self is enough to inspire others lead by example...without the pride. be humble.born agains take preaching to an extreme and anything to an extreme has bad balance to it. it may work when judement day arrives, but does nothing in particular to the every day reality we call the life we have to lead until we take our last breath. there is a life to be understood. but also, dfood to be kept on the tables and bills to be paid. born agains obviously believe they are followers of god...but once they start preaching they are not followers anymore. they are trying to be leaders. it defeats the purpose now to even be considered a follower. and all preaching is is a sales pitch. it is nothing more than a phone call at dinner time with someone trying to sell me life insurance right before i hang up.. nowhere in the bible does it say to annoy people by preaching...therefore one should preach without annoying people or don't preach at all. there is a lot to be said for the unwritten words in the bible as well because one can draw many conclusions to it and justifications....that is unless....the bible doesn't hold all the information one needs to preach. evidently it doesn't since there are many religions. so...which is the right religion and who has the right to preach about the right religion without confusing the human race any further with assuptions and a belief only supported by a book written by man.

[RedAlert 0]

Now, you mention God arbitrarily deciding what is able to redeem us. So? By definition, since He is the highest authority, wouldn't everything He does be arbitrary? It has to be by definition. If this is how He decided it will work, then that is how it will work - no matter how arbitrary it is (which it has to be). This does not mean what God has decided is arbitrary in the sense that it is chaotic and randomly decided. It is a reflection of His holiness, justice, and righteousness. His laws and decrees, and the things He has decided and done are all in harmonious perfection. They do not contradict each other and they are perfectly consistent.

Alright then, so you admit it? You say god could have done ANYTHING and it would have redeemed us, as long as he said it did. So there was no need for a human sacrifice.

The reason God purposed that Christ die on a cross and bear our sin for us is so that He may demonstrate His love. Think about it. Christ died for sinners. It is possible that some might die for a good man, or a friend of theirs, but someone dying for a complete sinner? Someone who is utterly opposed to the things of God? That is a demonstration of the utmost love.

No, it is an utmost act of arrogance. I don't want a god to sacrifice someone for my sins, especially when this apparent god prefers it to more peaceful alternatives, despite his "holiness, justice, and righteousness".

[anwiii 17]

this is the sole reason, i wont ever listen to another interpretation of the bible again. there are so many. it's reidiculous for one to think they know the correct interpretation. i too don't need anyone dying for my sins ans my sins are my own and nobody elses. i will also never dear a higher power because i don't believe that's how energy works or was creted to be used as punishments and damnations. what kinds sicko would want to believe in a god like that. they are out there and most of them are born agains who take interpreting the bible more literal than it was intended. at least the whole bible.

this is not to say the bible has useless information. it has very usefull information...but like any other book, you take the words with a grain of salt and interpret it the way it most makes sense to YOU....and disregard the rest that has nothing to do ith any word of god....or higher power.

i remember one time in my life i didn't believe anything the bible had to say. then i realized it wasn't the bible. it was how i was taught going to church for 10 years of my life including bible school. it was the interpretations that was tarnishing the bible. society has become confused and irritated...not because pf the bible, but because of the born agains who think they have the knowledge to preach and the churches or enforce their own laws that have nothing to do with the bible...but possibly maybe on a lower level. these churces try to directly dictate the meaning behind the bible and with each church, there is a following. almost cult like for there to be so many offsets of the word of god that is clearly written in the bible.

i still refuse to read it as there will always be a bad taste in my mouth with all the sinners who think they can preach. they do an injustice in this world and they are so ignorant, they don't realize that the bible can speak for itself.

now i say "cult like" because this is how people want to convince others to take their "belief" with high priority. someone who is truely religious with sacred beliefs, will have no cause to preach it, but teach by example. spread the word not through their voice but through their own actions. problem is, there are so many hypocrits, that it is hard to teach one through actions. they use words to hide the fact that they themselves have a hard time living a way of life that is rightous. so they use words....because they are hypocrits. so my question is....would anyone with even a little common sense want to follow a hypocrit?

the #1 things that people do wrong in a religious point of view is not ask for forgiveness from their own sins. isn't learning from mistakes and bettering your life indirectly asking for that forgiveness knowing that they were sinners in the past and want to correct their ways? isn't that the same as asking for it? the only difference is, they do it by actions....not words....ACTIONS....NOT WORDS. words are for the hypocrits, remember? what good are words if someone keeps making the same mistakes realizing all he/she has to do is ask for forgiveness and pray for it.

so WAKE UP you born agains and truely know inside your own self what is right and wrong. preaching through words and without actions can be sinfull as you are leading others on a path that is not true. they are so quick to take this responsibility not realizing the true consequence and the confusion it causes. so in my own eyes, come judgment day, god will be asking YOU why you lead people astray from him because you couldn't fullfill your own responsibility through action.

now i personally am not religious....so when i talk about god, i talk about him as if i did believe in him. in fact, i really don't know what to believe in or if there is just one god or higher power. i would think there isn't....and more than one who all connect down to us on some forms and levels...everyone. that's why i hate hearing the preaching when it's already inside us all. the preaching just gets too tiring to follow when other people start making up their own rules to follow.

so here it is in a nutshull. screw the bible and screw the churches. everyone already has something inside them to live a faithfull life of basic morals and values. screw how you were even raised and brought up if you are an adult now and can think for your own self without having someone preach to you to justify life and the living and create meaning in your life where otherwise there wouldn't be. that's insecurity talking and your own inability to think for yourself and to know ones self without being insecure.

it's funny how the ones who are most likely to be converted are those with an abudance of insecurity....like i said....almost cult like.

I don't want a god to sacrifice someone for my sins, especially when this apparent god prefers it to more peaceful alternatives, despite his "holiness, justice, and righteousness".

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since our resident fundie seems to be AWOL, I recently found this funny bible quirk!

Taken from the king james translation:

John 13:36 - Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.John 16:5 - But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

You can't make this stuff up! Anyone who actually believes some omnipotent being wrote this book is severely misguided.

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EXODUS 21:17: and again in LEVITICUS 21:9 And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

EXODUS 21:20-21: And if a man beats his servant or his maidservant with a rod(and he or she)remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he (or she) is his property.


EXODUS 22:19 and also in LEVITICUS 20:15-16 Whoever lies with a beast shall surely be put to death.


EXODUS 31:15 Whoever does ANY work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


LEVITICUS 20:10 The adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.


LEVITICUS 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a womanthey shall surely be put to death.


LEVITICUS 20:27 A man or a woman who is a mediumshall surely be put to death.


LEVITICUS 24:16 And whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him.


LEVITICUS 25:45-46 Moreover you may buy the children of strangersand they shall become your property. And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves.


LEVITICUS 26:29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters


LEVITICUS 27:5 Your valuation of a (human) male shall be twenty shekels, and for a female ten shekels.


NUMBERS 15:32-36 they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath dayThen the Lord said to Moses, The man must surely be put to deathSo as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.


NUMBERS 31:15-18 And Moses said to them: Have you kept all the women alive?Now therefore kill every male among the little ones; and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls

Notice from jlhaslip:

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