"what Do You, Personally, Believe?" Irrespective of religion, what do you believe is true?

[Vixen_Poetic 0]

Within the broad topic of spirituality and religeon, and without mentioning what religeon you espouse, what do you, in the depth of your heart believe is true?Please keep all discussion friendly... or at least courteous.To kick it off: I believe that God does not lie. Exact words can be mucked up in translations but God, being good, does not tell a falsehood.

[abminara 0]

It's complicated.I am now seventeen years old. My father died when I was seven, my father died of cancer. sadly, I do not even remember him. At the time I lived in Armenia with 2 sets of grandparents. Weird things happened at the time: stuff was falling off the cabinets almost hitting me, once a huge bucket of boiling soup spilled on my leg and gave me really bad burns, marks of which I still bear. Sometimes a cassette player started on its own and played my fathers' favorite song, sstopped at the end and started again. My grandparets, being superstitious, thought, that my father was calling me "up" and went to the church with me and christionized me. Without asking me anything. Though, I would not tell them much at the age of seven, I guess. Anyway. Since then I had a feeling inside that this is not what I need. Even though the weird (quite scary now, as I think about it) stuff stopped really soon, I do not think, there is any possibility that my fathers' death and these events were connected in any possible metaphysical way. Anyway. I do not believe in God. I am not agnostic, I do not believe that there is any superior power that is kinda everywhere and governs us. I believe that the Universe is extremely rational all by itself and does not need a push to continue its life and cellestrial evolution. All I believe in is that humans, that is, us, are capable of making too much up in order to gain power initially, and then the people just followed the first believers due to the crowd instinct.Sorry, if I offended anyone. If you wish to go deeper in the discussion, please reply, I will be more than willing to answer.

[KansukeKojima 0]

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. He is my God. Therefore I believe and follow His Word. So if you wish to know what I believe, look at a Bible.

[abminara 0]

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. He is my God. Therefore I believe and follow His Word. So if you wish to know what I believe, look at a Bible.

But wasn't the bible written by man? It even has some articles that should have never been in it (like the last one predicting the apocalypse) - then how do you know that all the rest are there because of His will?

[KansukeKojima 0]

But wasn't the bible written by man? It even has some articles that should have never been in it (like the last one predicting the apocalypse) - then how do you know that all the rest are there because of His will?

It was written by many men yes. However, it is completely inspired by God. As far as falsly placed articles go (in this cas you suggested the book of Revelation), I ask you one question. "As the Written Word of God, would he not want it to be completely true, acurate, and perfect?"

I highly doubt that the bible has any false documents in it, as it is basically Gods love letter to us. Because of His will, all it contains must be true.

[truefusion 3]

I believe in God and what He has revealed. I believe the Abrahamic religion is the most consistent with life when compared to other religions. I believe everything has a reason for its existence—whether or not we know about it yet. I believe it is perfectly logical to believe in God. I believe in the Messiah, Jesus, and his resurrection. I'd continue, but i can't mention everything i believe in all in one go.

It even has some articles that should have never been in it (like the last one predicting the apocalypse)

Could you elaborate on why it shouldn't have been included? The Book of Revelation (a.k.a. the Revelations of John) goes into deep description on what the Book of Daniel mentions concerning the Last Day, so if the Book of Revelation shouldn't have been, then so shouldn't have the Book of Daniel—but they both exist. Is it because it talks about an ending with judgment? Is it because you believe it preaches falsehood? I can't think of any objective reason why it shouldn't be included.

[abminara 0]

I guess, I have not clarified it enough. I watched a documental a few weeks ago on the Discovery Channel, and it said that scientists have examined the chapters of the bible and found out that the Book of Revelations was written a few centuries later than the others. And John, the author, was not actualy the John we know, but rather a prisoner that was set on an inhabitant island by emperor Caesar. If you put the name of Julius Caesar into the roman numerals you get a few numbers that end up adding up to 616, and the mistaken number 666 is actually untrue - the book of revelation in its original does not speak of 666, it says 616, but the middle digit was hard to read, I guess. It describes not the Last Day, but the Last Battle. And the description of it is the description of one of the vast valleys near Israel. Of course, you may believe whatever you want but the paragraph above is backed up by scientific data. I'll try to find the name of thet film.

[Revan 0]

I've already gone at it with truefusion before in an entirely friendly way, but here I go again. There is no god. We are organisms evolved from a single celled protozoa that was synthesized through basic macromolecules. The big bang just happened, there was no creator, it just was. Just as you believe your creator just was. Everyday more and more is explained through science, refuting evolution is becoming less and less reasonable. If the bible cannot explain to me why the creator just was, then it cannot contradict my beliefs of the being bang just being. Humans are the handiwork of evolution, and after 3.8 billion years we are finally intelligent enough to understand that.There is no right and wrong, black and white. Only gray. Reality is entirely subjective. Nothing is ever certain because people have their own interpretations of everything. Take the OJ Simpson trial, ten people were taken and asked what happened and ten partially or dramatically different stories were produced. I believe humans are by nature good, and want what is right for everyone. I think that it is in everyones best interests to better ourselves.

[truefusion 3]

I guess, I have not clarified it enough. I watched a documental a few weeks ago on the Discovery Channel, and it said that scientists have examined the chapters of the bible and found out that the Book of Revelations was written a few centuries later than the others. And John, the author, was not actualy the John we know, but rather a prisoner that was set on an inhabitant island by emperor Caesar. If you put the name of Julius Caesar into the roman numerals you get a few numbers that end up adding up to 616, and the mistaken number 666 is actually untrue - the book of revelation in its original does not speak of 666, it says 616, but the middle digit was hard to read, I guess. It describes not the Last Day, but the Last Battle. And the description of it is the description of one of the vast valleys near Israel.

 

Of course, you may believe whatever you want but the paragraph above is backed up by scientific data. I'll try to find the name of thet film.

No need to find the name of the film, i've heard about this plenty of times (I think it was even mentioned on the BBC website, too). I have been skeptical for the following reasons:

How does one know that the manuscript that reads 616 is the original, when there is only one that reads 616 surrounded by many 666 manuscripts? That is, i have seen no objective reasoning on why to conclude that the one that reads 616 is the original.

Caesar existed during the time of Jesus, so that would mean that if this John existed a few centuries afterwards, this John lived for a few centuries along with Caesar.

It assumes that John had a grudge against Caesar for placing John on the island; that is, they assume Caesar is the beast.

Early church "fathers" were talking about this book near the middle of the 2nd century and on ward (Book_of_Revelation#Early_views). Meaning, if we were to count a few centuries back, that would mark John before 100 B.C., making the book of Revelation written before "the others."

I have not seen how they came up with a numerical translation of Caesar's name nor the reasoning behind it.

(There are other reasons for my doubt, but i can't remember them...) The only scientific data i see that can come from this is the way they dated the manuscript. I say, leave Science for non-religious things, and leave Theology to religious things. And although the book of Revelation mentions a "last battle," it also goes into deep description on how judgment will occur, the signs that come from it, where the Jews and Gentiles will be placed, who will get tossed in the "lake of fire" (a.k.a "the second death"), etc.—some of which can also be found in the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament, where Caesar was non-existent.

[verdant 0]

my personal belifes run along the lines of taoism. it was mentioned in the first post not to espouse a preticular religion, but the beilifes of taoism are very difficult to explane without interjecting the word 'tao', which according to the tao te ching is a word lao tsu used to describe the indescribable. for all i know the word 'tao' could have been someting he made up on the spot...my belifes however, returning to the topic of discusion here, are mostaly without dogma and tend to sound like the advice of someone who upholds holistic practice. i dont belive, well i wont say belive, but i dont worry about offending a god or gods, i dont worry too much about demons (although i have had friends who have been attacked by them). for the most part i worry about doing what is healthy for my mind and body. keeping this in balance with a amature effort to be ethical i tend to arrive at something that is like taoism explained through christianity. this is mostaly due to the fact that i was brought up a christian, and as the bible says "train up a boy according to the way for him and he will not turn away from it." so i've foun that through all the meditation and spiritual experiences i've had, at my base level of understanding my ideas on things revert to being in terms of spritual beings used in christianity. i notice that my mantra use, marrow breathing, and other obscure taoist practices are greatly strengthend when i allow my mind to use the imagery of angels, archangels, the holy spirit and an a soveren, almighty god.the intresting thing i've noticed about all this led me to make a theory, and i belive that this theory holds the summation of my belifes. the theory is that our lives, our ways of thinking, and our desires like buddha said are the cause of our suffering and bar us from enlightenment. and in this way i've noticed that the self-created prison our minds our in is like a pyramid. looking at all the religions of the world, christianty, hinduism, paganism, taoism, satanism, ect. i notice many things incommon especialy in the words and experiences of their highest sages and prophets. like a pyramid, the higher one raises ones mind the more one ends up at the top of this pyramid. and at the top is a core concept, a form of imagery, a zenith! that is open to interpitation by he person experiencing this height. in the east certain buddhas we're said to have reached enlightenment through different senses, taste, smell, sight and hearing. in the west we have people experinceing unity with god, and in india there are gurus who practice yoga, which means unity with the divine and are doing miricles that are on the same level as jesus.the vast majority of peoples minds are operating on a very low level, as if they were asleep, and looking at the worlds religions, almost all of them have instructions for spiritual development and evolution if not some way to become a vesel for the will of a divine being. the reason i chose to follow the offering of taoism is because in my oppinion taoism is very versitile, and because of its lack of any major dogma, one is able to find peacable understanding of those who do strictly adhere to specific dogmas.

[Vixen_Poetic 0]

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. He is my God. Therefore I believe and follow His Word. So if you wish to know what I believe, look at a Bible.

Kansuke, I am familiar with the contents of that book, but that wasn't the question. Out of your study and your experiences what do you believe? What concept or thought or feeling has lodged in your heart as a ringing truth of this world or the next?

Here's another of mine: God loves us and expresses that love as a father does. This means that as a father he respects our free agency (and everybody's free agency) our ability to make our own choices is one thing He won't infringe on, but as a father He is always there for advice and help but we need to go to Him to get it. Is He omnipotent? Yes, but He chooses to not excersize that power in ways that will interfere with our choices, or our right to choose. Is He omniprescient? Yes, He is aware of all that happens, to lie to Him is futile and a reflection of our own choice to try to lie to ourselves. How about omnipresent? No, He doesn't need to be. Being omnipotent and omniprescient obliviates a need for omnipresence.

It's complicated.
I am now seventeen years old. My father died when I was seven, my father died of cancer. sadly, I do not even remember him. At the time I lived in Armenia with 2 sets of grandparents. Weird things happened at the time: stuff was falling off the cabinets almost hitting me, once a huge bucket of boiling soup spilled on my leg and gave me really bad burns, marks of which I still bear. Sometimes a cassette player started on its own and played my fathers' favorite song, sstopped at the end and started again. My grandparets, being superstitious, thought, that my father was calling me "up" and went to the church with me and christionized me. Without asking me anything. Though, I would not tell them much at the age of seven, I guess. Anyway. Since then I had a feeling inside that this is not what I need. Even though the weird (quite scary now, as I think about it) stuff stopped really soon, I do not think, there is any possibility that my fathers' death and these events were connected in any possible metaphysical way. Anyway. I do not believe in God. I am not agnostic, I do not believe that there is any superior power that is kinda everywhere and governs us. I believe that the Universe is extremely rational all by itself and does not need a push to continue its life and cellestrial evolution. All I believe in is that humans, that is, us, are capable of making too much up in order to gain power initially, and then the people just followed the first believers due to the crowd instinct.

Sorry, if I offended anyone. If you wish to go deeper in the discussion, please reply, I will be more than willing to answer.

I am sorry for your loss, old though it is I am sure you still miss him, miss everything he should have been for you. I am sorry that well meaning family pushed on you a religeon you were not ready to understand. I have heard prayer described as pleading with thunderstorms and I understand the perception even though I don't feel the same.

The need to be accepted is a powerful force and explains many wierd things but not everything.

my personal belifes run along the lines of taoism. it was mentioned in the first post not to espouse a preticular religion, but the beilifes of taoism are very difficult to explane without interjecting the word 'tao', which according to the tao te ching is a word lao tsu used to describe the indescribable. for all i know the word 'tao' could have been someting he made up on the spot...
my belifes however, returning to the topic of discusion here, are mostaly without dogma and tend to sound like the advice of someone who upholds holistic practice. i dont belive, well i wont say belive, but i dont worry about offending a god or gods, i dont worry too much about demons (although i have had friends who have been attacked by them). for the most part i worry about doing what is healthy for my mind and body. keeping this in balance with a amature effort to be ethical i tend to arrive at something that is like taoism explained through christianity. this is mostaly due to the fact that i was brought up a christian, and as the bible says "train up a boy according to the way for him and he will not turn away from it." so i've foun that through all the meditation and spiritual experiences i've had, at my base level of understanding my ideas on things revert to being in terms of spritual beings used in christianity. i notice that my mantra use, marrow breathing, and other obscure taoist practices are greatly strengthend when i allow my mind to use the imagery of angels, archangels, the holy spirit and an a soveren, almighty god.

the intresting thing i've noticed about all this led me to make a theory, and i belive that this theory holds the summation of my belifes. the theory is that our lives, our ways of thinking, and our desires like buddha said are the cause of our suffering and bar us from enlightenment. and in this way i've noticed that the self-created prison our minds our in is like a pyramid. looking at all the religions of the world, christianty, hinduism, paganism, taoism, satanism, ect. i notice many things incommon especialy in the words and experiences of their highest sages and prophets. like a pyramid, the higher one raises ones mind the more one ends up at the top of this pyramid. and at the top is a core concept, a form of imagery, a zenith! that is open to interpitation by he person experiencing this height. in the east certain buddhas we're said to have reached enlightenment through different senses, taste, smell, sight and hearing. in the west we have people experinceing unity with god, and in india there are gurus who practice yoga, which means unity with the divine and are doing miricles that are on the same level as jesus.

the vast majority of peoples minds are operating on a very low level, as if they were asleep, and looking at the worlds religions, almost all of them have instructions for spiritual development and evolution if not some way to become a vesel for the will of a divine being. the reason i chose to follow the offering of taoism is because in my oppinion taoism is very versitile, and because of its lack of any major dogma, one is able to find peacable understanding of those who do strictly adhere to specific dogmas.

Interestingly the most whole, creative and genuine people I know are ones who have a religeon but have kept an open mind about holistic health and other fringe practices. The first teacher my autistic son had was one such person. She was not young and had fractured the bones in her foot into a lot of little pieces. It looked like extensive and iffy surgery to fix it. She asked for, and was given, a preisthood blessing and when they x-rayed her foot just prior to the surgery all the little pieces had realigned making the surgery much easier and success much more assured. Her doctor still doubted it would ever properly heal, she was around 50 years old, but she knew better. The next summer while school was out she spent her time off working on her energy flows or energy healing or something like that, I never quite understood what she meant, and at her next annual appointment she floored her doctor with a completely well foot.

[KansukeKojima 0]

Kansuke, I am familiar with the contents of that book, but that wasn't the question. Out of your study and your experiences what do you believe? What concept or thought or feeling has lodged in your heart as a ringing truth of this world or the next?

 

Here's another of mine: God loves us and expresses that love as a father does. This means that as a father he respects our free agency (and everybody's free agency) our ability to make our own choices is one thing He won't infringe on, but as a father He is always there for advice and help but we need to go to Him to get it. Is He omnipotent? Yes, but He chooses to not excersize that power in ways that will interfere with our choices, or our right to choose. Is He omniprescient? Yes, He is aware of all that happens, to lie to Him is futile and a reflection of our own choice to try to lie to ourselves. How about omnipresent? No, He doesn't need to be. Being omnipotent and omniprescient obliviates a need for omnipresence.

Very well... I will attempt to give a brief list of the huge number of things I believe.

 

[1] I believe in the concept, and existence of the Holy Trinity. The Son is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Father is not the Son or The Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. If you could not understand that, below is a diagram:

[2] I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. It was not written by God, however, it was written by man through the direct inspiration of God. It reveals all that God wills us to know about him, though (much like the trinity concept above) we could never understand much of it.

 

[3] I believe that Christianity (in its true form (non-denominational, not catholic, not protestant, simply: believing what God has given us in His Holy Word, and serving Him) is the only true religion. Consider this if you desire evidence: Christianity is the only religion in the world where salvation is not earned through what we do. It is a free gift from God. We are saved by what He did. It completely escapes the borders of human imagination, where the thought of earning salvation, would easily be concieved due to human pride, etc.

 

[4] I believe God created the universe, planets, earth, and the life on it. As well, earth has been especially designed to support life.

 

[5] I believe the only way to salvation (or some sort of paradise, as you may not agree on what heaven, etc. is) is the free gift from Christ. On a similar note, I believe that Heaven is only a container. Not a permanent place for the saved. I do believe in eternal life, but I do not believe we will reside in Heaven for an eternity. There is no evidence in the bible to support that we will reside in Heaven as it is described, for an eternity, so it must be somewhere else. Some have suggested that it is a new earth.

 

[6] I do not believe the rapture will occur. I feel there is not enough evidence to support it. But if it does happen, yay! If it doesn't happen, yay! Really it does not matter to me. In the end, the result is the same.

 

Well there you go...

[truefusion 3]

How about omnipresent? No, He doesn't need to be. Being omnipotent and omniprescient obliviates a need for omnipresence.

There is a reason for Him to have omnipresence: Given certain verses (Matthew 3:16; Luke 3:22; John 14:23; 1 Corinthians 6:19), one can come to the conclusion that omnipresence is required in order to be capable of dwelling within hundreds of people. True, omnipresence isn't really needed for knowing things.

[Vixen_Poetic 0]

Very nicely expressed, Kansuke, thank you.

 

There is a reason for Him to have omnipresence: Given certain verses (Matthew 3:16; Luke 3:22; John 14:23; 1 Corinthians 6:19), one can come to the conclusion that omnipresence is required in order to be capable of dwelling within hundreds of people. True, omnipresence isn't really needed for knowing things.

Firstly, Truefusion, the first of those verses says something very different than omnipresence. Matthew 3:16-17 specificly lays out that there are three personages acting there in that moment, Christ the Son, the Spirit of God and The Father. Christ being there physically, having just been baptized, sees the Spirit of God "descending like a dove, and lighting upon him" and then the Father speaks from the heavens with the famous line, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And then your second reference, Luke 3:22, backs this up with another accounting of the same event also placing three personages at this critical moment. That this incident is given an accounting of twice and with the same important details says that this is not a mistranslation but a true accounting of events. Remember my first post? "God does not lie." God does not pull a fast one to deliberately leave people with a false impression.

 

Now, John 14:23. You seem to be refering to the last line where he says,

...and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

A bit ambiguous and patently impossible for him to do for every one who believes if he is not omnipresent which is why 1 John 3:24 becomes important to clarify this.

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Spirit that is refered to can be omnipresent, but The Father Himself is not, if he were there would be no reason for the Spirit, the Holy Ghost, to be doing a job that The Father could do. For some clarification check out Acts 2:2-4.

 

Now, I'm tired so I'm done for now. In the meantime you might want to recheck your 1 Corinthians 6:19 reference and look around for references to the Holy Ghost and the Creation.

[KansukeKojima 0]

Ok, Vixen_Poetic. You and truefusion are arguing two different points... at least how I see it.

If truefusion is talking about God being omnipresent, then truefusion is indeed correct. For example, take a look at the trinity Diagram I have posted. Since the Spirit (which is in every believer at one time) is God, then God is omnipresent.

As it would appear that Vixen_Poetic is reffering to the Father alone, regardless of the Holy Spirit, and the Son, then techinically Vixen_Poetic is correct...


So really you're both correct (a far as I can see)...

But on another note: Just because he does not need to be omnipresent, doesn't mean he couldn't be. Remember God only chose to reveal so much to us. So He (God the father) may as well be omnipresent as not...

Oh: I just found this on https://gotquestions.org/

God is omnipresent, meaning He is ever-present, everywhere; this does not mean that God is everything (Psalm 139:7-13; Jeremiah 23:23). (https://www.gotquestions.org/attributes-God.html)

Take a look at said verses... they may reveal more...