Is Outer Space The Future Of Mankind? the moon, mars, asteroids

[hansen 0]

Is space the solution to the troubels of mankind?Can we in space find the resources that we need to keep the growth going?Imagine that the billions in china and india over the next decades will want the same standart of living as we currently have in europe and north america.Is mars the solution to over population on earth, mars does present 3 times the land area of earth. Is mining he3 (for fusion energy) on the moon the solution to the polution free energy need on earth? 25gram he3 pr year would be sufficient to cover the energy needs of usa (the worlds larges co2 contributor)Are mining asteroids the solution to the need of platinium group metals?there are plenty of other topics that could be in this topic, I will wait with them until later.RegardsPeter

[sweet_princess 0]

I do believe that space can be the solution to many of our problems. But one problem is that man has not even made it to the moon yet! Theres just too much radiation! First we need to find other solutions before we start to consider space, although it is very interesting

[Plenoptic 0]

The problem with looking into space for the resources of mankind lies in the fact that it costs too much to get into space in the first place. Shuttles go up roughly once every month or two in the United States and each time they go up it costs billions of dollars. Space Shuttle Endeavor cost $1.7 billion alone to build and that does not count for labor cost and repairs which seem to be growing larger in number every time there is a launch. The current Space Shuttle Atlantis was just put off until January because of fuel tank issues. The cost for labor, construction, fuel, supplies, training, etc; costs a lot of money. Some new form of shuttle will have to be designed to carry a large amount of resources back but the cost will outweigh what is brought in by a large number. For this to be profitable, some form of mass production of space crafts that can carry large loads have to be built but they must be built efficiently, cheap, and with little labor. The automation of manufacturing can be helpful as it was for the automobile back when Henry Ford created the first parts line. As for life on a new planet, yes it's possible, same with a space station. The same problems apply to this situation though as well and the residents going to live in a new civilization will likely have to be taught how to adapt and at first will be specialists like those out in the International Space Station. As for the moment there are many plans for the advancement of exploration like the repairing of the Hubble Telescope and addition to new parts. The government is already having a hard time funding this, it may be a long time before we turn to the Earth's need from scientific discovery.

[hansen 0]

sweet-princess, do you say that mankind never has been on the moon?

I do not hope you belive in the conspiration-teories?
If you do, I will recomend you take a look at this site: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy.html

Now back to the other question, radiation.
Radiation protection will indeed be vital to anny prolonged stay at the moon, or annywere else in space.
on the moon, the easy way of protection will be to cover the initial bases with regolith. ˝meter regolith will cover for most radiation. and as the gravety on the moon only are 1/3 of that on earth it will not give anny problems with construction.
The lunar society surgest that the initial bases be set up in lavatubes, there it will be covered with massive rocks and only face radiation from the cave opening, and that are next to nothing if the base are placed at a distance. if done that way it will not pose anny troubel to build the exterior of the base in a thin sheet of plastic.

best regards
Peter

[hansen 0]

Plenoptic.Sure the space shuttel are expencive, even extremly expencive.The sad thing is that usa has made it allmost impossibel for american compagnies to engage in russian rocketry.a soyuz cost around 200mill dollars, the shuttel cost al most 2 billion, i know that the shuttel can launch a greath deal more in 1 shot than the soyuz. but 10 russian rocets can launch 2.5 times the weigth of 1 shuttel at the same cost.But as long as the american goverment does classiffer most space technology as state secrets.... it is going to be hard for american compagnies to participate in space development, as they cant find the resources to pay for shuttel launches.best regardsPeter

[Saint_Michael 3]

Yeah I have to agree with pleno that for space travel to possible several factors have to come into play:

1. Money

And I mean a series load of it like in the hundreds of trillions of dollars to fund this project which includes mass producing ship parts, developing a energy source that can pull off star trek speeds, and some sort of hull that can take small objection without puncturing a giant hole from a meteorite or something.

2. Space Ship

Now if we have this huge source of money covered the next problem is the ship, basically you would have to make the space ships be like the Enterprise from star trek. Not only does it have to be fast it has to be huge so people can move around and sleep comfortably and not be in such a tight space. As for speed thats a given we need to be able to hit the speed of light or close to it ( the speed of light is 669,600,000 MPH), and I believe the current space shuttle can only do about 25,000 MPH. So we already know that either a nuclear engine or something more powerful would need to built in order to sustain that kind of power, even if its small burst just to get the motion going. As for the hull of the ship it needs to about 1000x more better then the current hull system as it needs to be able with stand objects the size of softballs from putting a hole into the ship and collapsing it. Thus you would need the most advance weapon, tracking, monitoring system in the known universe to be able keep tabs on all the objects in space.

Like I said we would need to build a enterprise for that to be even possible.

3. Water/Food

We need food and water there is no doubt about that, and right now only the planet Earth has was we need to survive.

4. Time

Using this website to explain it, no human can live two hundred thousand years or if oyu read further down nine trillion years. So in order turn years into hours in space travel you need to pull off warp speed like speed to not have 360,000,000,000 generations (9 trillion number) of human bodies floating in space once they die. Lets not forget time is different in space as well, and if I remember correctly if you travel back and forth in a set number of years the actual age of the of the planet is double that. Not to sure how that works so if someone knows what I am referring to clear that situation up.


5. Human race

For this to work everyone has to stop the BS, but we all know peace on earth will never happen, and so in that conclusion after rereading these points I would think it would be impossible unless the hypothetical worm hole appears out of nowhere next to the planet earth traveling to outer space will only will happen to those who have deep pockets and the means to actually get out there and perform science experiments.

Although I saw an article a couple of days ago that the Voyager spacecrafts are now reaching the point were our solar system ends and the universe begins, and that took 30 years for those 2 tiny satellites to get there. Of course during that time no contact has ever been made, and so it leads to my final point.

6. Why Do it?

If we are the only living things in this universe why bother risking the dangers of this unknown universe? Although we have about 5 Billion years left on this planet give or take a catastrophic event The human race only chance of survive would be find a planet that is a exact duplicate of this planet, and out of the 200+ planets found so far none have come close to earth like yet. Early 20th century had high hopes for the future such as by the year 2000 we have flying cars and stuff like that but its 2007 and we haven't done anything to cure disease, hunger, global warming, and so us as a race now in a period of time that all it takes is someone to press a button and that would be it.

Could it be possible to leave this planet and travel the stars? Maybe will it happen in the generation-x life time, not likely. The 21st century children have to realize that we their parents and grandparents and great grandparents have done a lot of damage, and if the 21st century children cannot get past our mistakes it might never happen.

[ximo 0]

Yeah I have to agree with pleno that for space travel to possible several factors have to come into play:

 

1. Money

 

And I mean a series load of it like in the hundreds of trillions of dollars to fund this project which includes mass producing ship parts, developing a energy source that can pull off star trek speeds, and some sort of hull that can take small objection without puncturing a giant hole from a meteorite or something.

 

2. Space Ship

 

Now if we have this huge source of money covered the next problem is the ship, basically you would have to make the space ships be like the Enterprise from star trek. Not only does it have to be fast it has to be huge so people can move around and sleep comfortably and not be in such a tight space. As for speed thats a given we need to be able to hit the speed of light or close to it ( the speed of light is 669,600,000 MPH), and I believe the current space shuttle can only do about 25,000 MPH. So we already know that either a nuclear engine or something more powerful would need to built in order to sustain that kind of power, even if its small burst just to get the motion going. As for the hull of the ship it needs to about 1000x more better then the current hull system as it needs to be able with stand objects the size of softballs from putting a hole into the ship and collapsing it. Thus you would need the most advance weapon, tracking, monitoring system in the known universe to be able keep tabs on all the objects in space.

 

Like I said we would need to build a enterprise for that to be even possible.

 

3. Water/Food

 

We need food and water there is no doubt about that, and right now only the planet Earth has was we need to survive.

 

4. Time

 

Using this website to explain it, no human can live two hundred thousand years or if oyu read further down nine trillion years. So in order turn years into hours in space travel you need to pull off warp speed like speed to not have 360,000,000,000 generations (9 trillion number) of human bodies floating in space once they die. Lets not forget time is different in space as well, and if I remember correctly if you travel back and forth in a set number of years the actual age of the of the planet is double that. Not to sure how that works so if someone knows what I am referring to clear that situation up.

5. Human race

 

For this to work everyone has to stop the BS, but we all know peace on earth will never happen, and so in that conclusion after rereading these points I would think it would be impossible unless the hypothetical worm hole appears out of nowhere next to the planet earth traveling to outer space will only will happen to those who have deep pockets and the means to actually get out there and perform science experiments.

 

Although I saw an article a couple of days ago that the Voyager spacecrafts are now reaching the point were our solar system ends and the universe begins, and that took 30 years for those 2 tiny satellites to get there. Of course during that time no contact has ever been made, and so it leads to my final point.

 

6. Why Do it?

 

If we are the only living things in this universe why bother risking the dangers of this unknown universe? Although we have about 5 Billion years left on this planet give or take a catastrophic event The human race only chance of survive would be find a planet that is a exact duplicate of this planet, and out of the 200+ planets found so far none have come close to earth like yet. Early 20th century had high hopes for the future such as by the year 2000 we have flying cars and stuff like that but its 2007 and we haven't done anything to cure disease, hunger, global warming, and so us as a race now in a period of time that all it takes is someone to press a button and that would be it.

 

Could it be possible to leave this planet and travel the stars? Maybe will it happen in the generation-x life time, not likely. The 21st century children have to realize that we their parents and grandparents and great grandparents have done a lot of damage, and if the 21st century children cannot get past our mistakes it might never happen.

even though I beleve that we still have the right technology for a colony on the moon or something. In fact it is quite possible. we have the technology to do it. we are in Antarctica arn't we? we use domes etc for buildings and other typs of structures to shelter out the cold.

 

I You take a look at Star Trek for A Minute... The Hypospray: Remember that one?

Star Trek:

 

 

Real Life:

 

 

There are probably other things aswell.who Knows!

 

I think that NASA has a problem with priorities. if it's no NASA then it's the American Gouvernment or who ever gives them money. According to a Radio program that I listen to, Coast 2 Coast AM, an expert said that, by now, we could be on Mars and having Colonies on the Moon.

 

Remember that Space Elevator? back in the 60's it was a joke, but now it looks like reallity.

[Saint_Michael 3]

If you have ever watch the history channel they did an episode on real world technology based on star trek and star wars that have shown quite a few other tools.However, I would like to point out that their is a HUUGE difference between Antarctica and a moon colony? That difference is simple gravity and oxygen. Outer space lacks that and all it takes is a golf ball to create a very bad situation; however, I doubt they would have glass domes and junk like that but still an object going through outer space at like a few hundred thousand miles an hour is going to do some huge damage to something.

[suberatu 0]

If you have ever watch the history channel they did an episode on real world technology based on star trek and star wars that have shown quite a few other tools.

I've seen this show. I think it was called "How William Shatner Changed the World". Very interesting indeed.
Back on topic, as much as I personally would like for space travel to become a possiblity, I doubt that it will happen in my lifetime, or for many years after. Saint_Michael did a great job of listing many of the reasons why this is so. An Antarctic colony on the other hand can be done.

[hansen 0]

well Saint Michael you are rigth, there are no way anny one will be abel to find monny for inter stellar travel. not to say find anny type of technology that would be capabel of supporting such a travel.If you looked at the titel of this topic, you would have ssen that it said the moon, mars and asteroids. not stars and galaxies.To finance a lunar colony, using the shuttel as first choice of liftoff, it will take aprox 20-40 billion dollars including american build hardware.the same could be done using russian rockets and indian build hardware for 8-10 billion. perhaps much less as the russian rockets would be a lot cheaper if you buy them in bulk.you are rigth that oxygene and water are not easy to obtain in space, then again if you start processing rogolith on the moon it consist of 40% oxygen and you will find hydrogen as well (layered in the regolith from the solar wind) According to sattelite observations it should be possibel to find water/ice in deep polar craters on the oon and thus just mining it for a large water supply. the water would be an easy rocket fuel for initial further expantion in to space, in my senario near earth asteroids and mars.regardsPeter

[Sandokan 0]

A allready read these kind of things earlier.All I can say is that we will have to wait to get the answers :PI think if they can solve the problems that can prevent us from goinginto space there is a good chance it might happen ones!Greetzz

[minimcmonkey 0]

As much as I love the idea of mankind eventually existing mainly on another planet...But i dont think its practical.Just think, we have not yet discovered a planet that we can breath/live on, without life support...And also, if it takes so long to get to mars, or any other close planets, just think how long it would take to get to a planet so far away that it was undiscovered...The only practical way of moving mankind to another planet, would be to have a huge ship full of people, practically creating a new civilisation while travelling through space, many generations would grow and die, before they even saw a inhabitable planet, and when they got there, the new human race, would just slowwly develop - atlest, you'd have thought so....But the amount of fuel it would take to launch any kind of rocket or space craft, that far, while carrying that many people, would it be possible??But i think that space tourism will come along in the next century or two (hopefully while im still alive!) and that will slowly evolve into living on other planets....

[adriantc 0]

I think and hope that the future of menkind is outerspace. But I believe that is very hard to happen for 2 main reasons. First of all the technology isn't ready yet. Maybe NASA could risk a few astronauts, but for a viable way to sustains hundreds or thousands of people that is another story. Not to mention millions or billions... That kind of research takes time, time which I'm afraid we don't have. We all can see what we have done to the world and it can't take a lot more till it won't be able to sustain us... On the other hand there is the problem of competition, or to be more precise the lack of competition. A huge progress was done during the Cold War (I still don't believe we landed on the moon... but that isn't important nowadays since today we can go to the moon) so without some kind of competition research won't be fast enough. And once again, I'm afraid that can't be done without a war.

[thorne 0]

We definitely need to continue our research about space before we will be able to live off our planet, but right now there are more pressing areas for researcher's time and money, so it may not come for awhile. At the same time, however, we are multiplying to beyond what our planet can sustain, and we may soon deplete it of the things we need to live. As this occurs, researcher's shift may focus. Either we will need to find a way to make this planet continue to be hospitable, or we will need to find a way to make somewhere else that way and live there.Reading Orson Scott Card's Speaker for the Dead series offered interesting insight to what it may be like if we begin colonizing other planets. Of course it is only fiction, but it gets you thinking. In these books, different cultures went to different planets. I wonder how we as a species will change if we were to isolate ourselves in groups on different plants. Perhaps we would evolve into different species, which could create many issues if we decided to merge one day.At this point, there can only be speculation about a future in space, but it is still a fascinating subject to consider!

[kasm 0]

Is space the solution to the troubels of mankind?

No we will face problems more than here. Gravity, and carrying our Oxygen , water and food.

 

We went only to our satellite the moon. there are long way and need time and exceeded the speed to go to the next neighbor , Marc. It is not practical.

 

We know that human and our plants and animal can't survived without water, oxygen and food so we need to carry oxygen, water and food.. So to live in space we have to find planet that is a exact duplicate of our planet and as said the 200+ planets found so far none have come close to earth. So even though will find that similar planet it need 100 or more of year to travel there .

...Is mars the solution to over population on earth,..

If we decide to go to Marc it will take 10-15 years but we need to carry our oxygen, water and food.

 

If we decide to live in the moon because of affordable travel time, we need to carry our Oxygen, water and food . So better to live in earth's deserts or or at pole in snow than living there.

 

Can we in space find the resources that we need to keep the growth going?

No it is better to put the effort and money here to discover more resources or new technologies.

 

If we used these trillions of money and the huge research time and effort in developing resources in our planet , it will be better.

 

It is better to use these budgets and manpower and human minds to discover more resources or new technologies: to deal with diseases, hunger, global warming,

 

We have to find cost effective methods to convert water to water suitable to human and then planting the desert.

 

- we have to use natural sources of energy effectively and less cost than now as Solar , hydrol and wind energy.

 

-We have to think how to increase the food products.

 

- to planting deserts

 

- we have to use and increase sea food.

 

- to produce cars that less consume fuel and less transmit carbon dioxide.

- to think about renewed the consumed energy.

Imagine that the billions in china and india over the next decades will want the same standart of living as we currently have in europe and north america

A Don't worry. Malthus one day was pessimistic but human survived for more than he predicted. The Reverend Dr Thomas Robert Malthus who lived from 13 February 1766 to 23 December 1834). has expressed views on population growth and noted the potential for populations to increase rapidly. He said that the population grow if unchecked in geometric rate rate (i.e. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc.), whereas the food-supply grows at an arithmetic rate (i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.).. So he predict a biog problem and suggested that only natural causes (such as accidents and old age), misery (war, plague, and above all famine) disasters. . But the crises didn't happened . or sometimes happened for a while.. [see Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to know about Mathus and his ideas]at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthus ]

 

Moreover The space shuttle are extremely expensive. And you will not enjoy that European or American living as you said and you expose them to known and unknown risks. .