Science Or Spirituality

[mahesh2k 0]

@Krishnadeep1

 

 

@mahesh2k: could you give evidence for love in your heart? could you give evidence to pain? could you give evidence to feelings deep within you?could you even give evidence and a complete reason for your existence?

You're asking for evidence of emotions ? And what are you trying to suggest when you say complete reason for existence ?

 

if science has a way for mankind to be happy under all circumstances and can give a reason for consciousness, howcome it hasn't put it out yet? whoever said spirituality doesn't have evidence? do people like you have the patience to check it out?

Because people oppose those who prefer skepticism. It's easy to believe in fantasy stories of spirituality than accepting science and it's exploration. And just because of there is limitations in science, doesn't mean spirituality is right.

 

Oh, now spirituality requires patience ? Hmm, and what results have you got so far after that ?

 

 

have you ever had the seriousness to ponder deeply at what things really are? word salad is science. how many people read scientific journals? hardly few!

Just the opposite, word salad is spirituality. You're using internet and looking for hosting cause of science and not cause of spirituality. Their ignorance on not to read or question science journals. More people follow religion and are spiritual but not reading science journal is "appeal to popularity" fallacy.

 

and your point about why spiritualists need internet, etc. doesn't make sense because spirituality, by it's definition, is the science of the SPIRIT...if you think that consciousness is product of brain activity, if you believe what DeCartes said about " I think ,therefore I am!"

and you fail to give proof for spirit. so where is the science in it if it fails to give empirical evidence for spirit. and What gives me power ? certainly not those fantasy energies suggested by spiritualists.

 

could you give a practical, lay man term sense answer to what would be the end of consciousness?would you consciously be able to put an end or destroy consciousness? because according to your theories of evolution, everything is pointless, mindless existence that goes on between two points of time.

Playing with consciousness won't let spiritual people escape from the fact that there is no way to prove "spirit". and i didn't get your attempt of finding out what is at the end of consciousness.

 

Is it ? creating meaning of existence out of each others fantasies is definitely not what you call consciousness or do you ? in that way, are you implying that lack of scientific findings makes spirituality and consciousness theories of yours right ?

 

 

 

every human on this planet is driven by two basic desires: to avoid pain and to gain happiness/joy/peace. show me but one single person who WANTS pain with all his life.

this is Assumption in spirituality. Humans all care for survival and multiplying. in this process we have formed culture that forced us to maintain peace and avoid pain.

 

Are you ignorant ? there are plenty of such people(psychopaths,criminals) who love pain, bloodshed in life. your ignorance to see such people around don't make your point any way worth to consider.

 

 

people like you who use words like skepticism, word salad, spiritual fantasies, escapism,etc. are simply finding within themselves that they have no real ground on which to prove their accusations. what is escapism? why do i need to learn to live the way you do? would you willingly live the life of a rapist, a drugs dealer or a murderer?

 

I guess now so far you failed to give proof for spirit on which your spirituality is based. and now you think i'm accusing ? fair enough.

 

Being skeptical is any way related to being rapist or murderer ? i don't think your example here makes sense.

 

 

i hope you would not! there is a way of living that is on a universal scale of good and bad. science cannot show people why to live, it can only show how. that is a very applaudable part of it.similarly, there are universal truths that are rooted and your belief in them or your skepticism aren't simply going to change them.

Agree, psychology and anthropologists can point out error in way of living but can't dictate terms on which humans should live.

 

Exactly. And all i feel is instead of forcing we should discuss as discussion is more beneficial to remove blind beliefs and to acquire more knowledge. Be it from any side.

 

 

 

truth be told, science cannot mend broken hearts and desperate souls. you will know when life hits you hard and slaps you on the face every single moment of your life, asking you for an explanation of it's existence.

 

Lol. this is going philosophical way now.

 

Even if i got into situation like this, i don';t fill myself with any fantasy stories and bookish ideas of spirituality. But that';s just me.

 

 

THE question: give me a reason for human existence that makes sense and silences that bad boy who keeps slapping your face and asking you about it. if you think there's no reason and so on, well guess what, you're the escapist dear scientist! cheers and peace.

Reason of human existence is different for every human. as some can't interpret the events around them and they fill it with pseudo theories of spirituality. and any attempt of proving those fantasy stories simply makes them escape at the end by questioning science,if not then still where is the proof of spirit to begin with ? Guess, who is escapist now ? Edited September 3, 2009 by mahesh2k (see edit history)

[krishnadeep1 0]

since the mods have "warned" me to leave this forum, i wanna give u my email id: krishnadeep@live.com just write me ur questions n i will be happy to keep discussin stuff. by the way, i'm here coz my friend told me to check it out. i've got enough monies to buy hosting from good companies and not crappy servers like xisto which're down 75% anywayz! about the reason for existence, let's talk more. i'll write u as much as u want. i'm not afraid of scientists and skeptics coz i'm an engineer for crying out loud. i DO science. k? write me and we'll discuss. i've got a feeling we'll be good friends. thanx. cheers!

 

 

 

@Krishnadeep1

 

 

 

 

You're asking for evidence of emotions ? And what are you trying to suggest when you say complete reason for existence ?

 

 

 

Because people oppose those who prefer skepticism. It's easy to believe in fantasy stories of spirituality than accepting science and it's exploration. And just because of there is limitations in science, doesn't mean spirituality is right.

 

Oh, now spirituality requires patience ? Hmm, and what results have you got so far after that ?

 

 

 

 

Just the opposite, word salad is spirituality. You're using internet and looking for hosting cause of science and not cause of spirituality. Their ignorance on not to read or question science journals. More people follow religion and are spiritual but not reading science journal is "appeal to popularity" fallacy.

 

 

 

and you fail to give proof for spirit. so where is the science in it if it fails to give empirical evidence for spirit. and What gives me power ? certainly not those fantasy energies suggested by spiritualists.

 

 

 

Playing with consciousness won't let spiritual people escape from the fact that there is no way to prove "spirit". and i didn't get your attempt of finding out what is at the end of consciousness.

 

Is it ? creating meaning of existence out of each others fantasies is definitely not what you call consciousness or do you ? in that way, are you implying that lack of scientific findings makes spirituality and consciousness theories of yours right ?

 

 

 

 

 

this is Assumption in spirituality. Humans all care for survival and multiplying. in this process we have formed culture that forced us to maintain peace and avoid pain.

 

Are you ignorant ? there are plenty of such people(psychopaths,criminals) who love pain, bloodshed in life. your ignorance to see such people around don't make your point any way worth to consider.

 

 

 

 

I guess now so far you failed to give proof for spirit on which your spirituality is based. and now you think i'm accusing ? fair enough.

 

Being skeptical is any way related to being rapist or murderer ? i don't think your example here makes sense.

 

 

 

 

Agree, psychology and anthropologists can point out error in way of living but can't dictate terms on which humans should live.

 

Exactly. And all i feel is instead of forcing we should discuss as discussion is more beneficial to remove blind beliefs and to acquire more knowledge. Be it from any side.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. this is going philosophical way now.

 

Even if i got into situation like this, i don';t fill myself with any fantasy stories and bookish ideas of spirituality. But that';s just me.

 

 

 

 

Reason of human existence is different for every human. as some can't interpret the events around them and they fill it with pseudo theories of spirituality. and any attempt of proving those fantasy stories simply makes them escape at the end by questioning science,if not then still where is the proof of spirit to begin with ? Guess, who is escapist now ?

[mahesh2k 0]

since the mods have "warned" me to leave this forum, i wanna give u my email id: krishnadeep@live.com just write me ur questions n i will be happy to keep discussin stuff. by the way, i'm here coz my friend told me to check it out. i've got enough monies to buy hosting from good companies and not crappy servers like xisto which're down 75% anywayz! about the reason for existence, let's talk more. i'll write u as much as u want. i'm not afraid of scientists and skeptics coz i'm an engineer for crying out loud. i DO science. k? write me and we'll discuss. i've got a feeling we'll be good friends. thanx. cheers!

Sorry to hear that you're leaving Xisto. I don't know what went wrong from your or mods side. If it is possible then i would like to see you back on forums.


I'll be in touch with you via email. :-)

[truefusion 3]

There are lot of differences if you're talking about creationism. Many of creationist push religious concepts in order to argue with evolution. This simply isn't going to work that way.

Hmm? I thought we were only considering the scientific part of each. When you look at each, you see that what is considered proof for one, it can in turn be proof for the other. Therefore, unless only one can fit within the evidence, then there is no difference between the two.

 

Oh, now that if people starts to accept evolution, It goes into minority? and creationists are the one who use science to penetrate pseudo-holy concepts into schools. Finding gaps in science to push claims in holy books, spirituality won't make sense. It never made earlier nor it will make now. and debating people for the sake of preaching religion(that's what creationists do) is one such part i think people enjoy to suppress skepticism.

By making statements that make all Creationists and believers appear like the ones you are against, you place minority into majority. Just because one person does something, you cannot in turn declare that you can pretty much conclude the same with all. That is why it is fallacious to say that Christianity accepts the theory of evolution—Christianity will never be in such a position; only those who do not fully accept Genesis would ever consider the theory of evolution. Therefore do not equate minority with majority.

 

is it ? what you call science ? isn't finding answers, skepticism part of science ? or you think humans survived earlier without this ? If you think so, then hats off to your this conclusion.

The term "science" to me is merely a replacement for the word "study." You do not need skepticism to study something. If skepticism played a huge role in our lives, i really doubt we would get anywhere in life. People every day walk in faith—and it doesn't have to be concerning some kind of religion. People go to work believing they'll make it back home while still having the same job. People go to sleep believing they'll wake up to see the next day. If it weren't for faith, we would be too concerned about the "what ifs" of life. And guess what one of the causes of faith is? One of the causes is evidence—though this may come off as odd to you.

 

I guess carol travis gave beautiful explanation in her book . When people are convinced with what they call non-materialistic world they start rejecting reality(materialistic world). any argument in this is simply meant for taking down difference in opinion and as carol says, it won't make any difference to spiritualist people.

The foolish belief would have indeed been the belief that material things could ever fully satisfy. The wants and desires for material gain, are these not what cause most trouble? Indeed, the better path seems obvious, and it's not on the side of materialism.

 

It is not misconception. Until and unless you can give me successful case in this i won't buy your claims for this. There are tons of claims made in this from many religions, spiritual cults like theiuba and their attempt to call it misconception never worked.

The burden of proof may actually be on your side. Since when does science actively seek to end belief in a spiritual realm? In fact, science can't really touch these matters, therefore any argument for or against may be futile. Nevertheless, the Big Bang theory does imply a Creator. For even if you were to consider constant imploding and exploding, you would eventually end up with nothing, as matter should decrease after each implosion and explosion. Therefore showing that this universe could not have always existed—and you should know what that means.

 

Exactly. Hypothetical concepts in spirituality which is without proof makes no sense in reality. For example, there is no proof of spirit to begin with. And any attempt to defending spirituality is useless if one can't give empirical evidence for spirit. So what's the point in mixing it then ?

In a purely materialistic world there cannot exist free will, as matter would always be above the mind. However, if freewill, then mind is over matter. That is, our consciousness is not something observable under a microscope, therefore leading to the conclusion that our conscious is metaphysical in nature, hence spirit. Therefore to separate spiritualism from science is to exclude a part of reality from science—you would be taking away from science.

 

Again, i found this as word play and not a provable way to understand hybridization of science and spirituality. If spirituality is that obvious then point of denial fades away, we shouldn't be discussing it at first place.

Skepticism is as helpful as much as it deceives. Even if spiritualism could be proven without a doubt, there will always be one who exists that doubts. Therefore this imbalance comes not from reality but within the self.

 

Not completely but i agree to this point that it is hard to be "wholly" skeptical. Thanks for pointing this out. I mean in order to hypothesize some theories in science, skepticism could turn off thinking process and may restrict some thoughts. But at the end, to make it work it needs to have "empirical evidence". Denying "empirical evidence" & suppressing skepticism is ignorance, and we know ignorance is bliss.

And, yet, skepticism is a tool for willful ignorance and ignorance is but a pain to those who want to know.

[BordaForx 0]

Darwinism or God? Evolution or Creationism? This has been a hot topic of debate since Charles Darwin's ideas and views were introduced. Fortunately, with the advancement of technology and a better understanding of science, scientists have been able to disprove Darwin's rudimentary positions and have been able to expand on Darwinism.

 

I would like to first start off by stating that Darwinism is not evolution. Darwinism is a label attached by Creationists to make evolution seem dogmatic. Evolution has been studied for the past century and countless experiments have proven it to be a fact. What exactly is evolution? It states that the genetic structure of an organism is able to evolve to form a new organism. A Creationist would argue that it would be ludicrous and preposterous to even suggest that humans evolved from monkeys! However, that is not the case. That is not what evolution is about! Evolution is about adapting and evolving to the environment. For example, leopards in South America and Africa have subtle differences because when the South American continent split from Africa, the differences between the two continents caused these leopards to adapt to their environment!

 

Consider the case of a human being. Our appendix is usually considered by many to be absolutely useless nowadays. Say a couple produce a child with a deformity -- the child is born without an appendix. And the child without an appendix spreads those genes. Eventually, in the future (millions of years?) humans will not have an appendix! That's what evolution is about! It's about a simple deformity that aids in the adaptation to the current environment.

 

In fact, evolution does not conflict with the Bible at all! Therefore, you can believe in evolution and still be a Chrisitan. This is just one of many examples to prove that science and religion actually go hand-in-hand when understood to it's fullest extent. If we ever do fully comprehend science and religion (unlikely?), the war between science and religion will dissolve. Let's pray for that.

[namelesss 0]

 

Consider the case of a human being. Our appendix is usually considered by many to be absolutely useless nowadays.

The first thing one asks is why would there be a useless organ, here, at the top of the evolutionary heap? How did it get by the censors? Doesn't the theory of 'evolution' apply to all life?


Actually, it has been recently found that the appendix is a vital participant in our immune system. It was considered useless because we were incapable of perceiving (until now) it's function.

Who knows what they'll find tomorrow? Water on the (was "usually considered by many to be" a desert) moon?