Vietnam/iraq Some care to enlighten me on the difference?

[sheepdog 10]

During the entire war with Iraq, there has been a tremendous outpouring of support for our troops. There are groups that organize letter drives, packages, and I even saw a bit on TV the other day about a Music company that is sending guitars over the the boys. Almost every car you see has a "Support Our Troops" ribbon on it. Seems as though every community has it's own little project going to show support for our military. And when a fighting man or woman finally gets to come home, the whole town seems to turn out, with fanfare, bands, news media, the whole ball of wax. They are given a real hero's welcome. And of course, I do believe they deserve it. Now lets go back a few years. The boys that came home from Vietnam were treated like dirt. They were often practicly smuggled back into the country at night. When it was discovered that some boys were comming in, the crowds showed up and spit on them and called them baby killers. My very own S. O. came home and when he went to the unemployment office to try to get back to work, the *BLEEP* working there looked at his military record and had the nerve to tell him, "Well, when Al Capone has an opening, we'll let you know." These boys fought and died and did their job and did what their government asked of them. Why were they treated like criminals and the Iraq troops are all considered hero's????? I really feel bad for the Vietnam vets. And now they are listening to all the fanfare the troops are getting now, that has got to hurt.

[etycto 0]

for one thing the iraq soldiers are not considered "hero's" to most really the biggest reson that these people give them these big welcomes was because they disaprove the war and they're happy that they're not wasting their lives over there for a useless war.the vitenamese war is a diferent thing that war where faught has america's little way of sticking it to the comunists. also during that that time was the "hipee times"(don't if i splled it right) where half the americans where "peace lovers" so of course they would be less welcomed during that time. i bet if the vietnamese war was faught during this time they also woulde've been more welcome.

[Saint_Michael 3]

I would say maybe 2 years into the war thats when people started comparing Iraq with Vietname, and whats sad that they are almost compatible, except for the number of solders killed and POW/MIA's. Heck the draft has been talk about so many times they might as well reinstate it and send millions of American's over to conquer that stupid desert. I did my thing over and I got out alive, although messed up mentally, and it is obvious that nothing has changed either from the Iraqi government or the Iraqi people. Of course what it all comes down to is power, money and oil; compare that to Vietnam and it was all about beating the communist Russia. Which sadly they won that war thanks to the big disadvantage we had in the jungles of Vietnam and the fact we couldn't save most of the troops who died their because of the lack of medical technology and other stuff. Of course the biggest difference between these two wars was support and ever you read your history book you will know why we got more support or the some support for this war then Vietnam war.

[Mermaid711 0]

Well, when I first saw the TITLE of this topic, I thought it was another one of those bleeding heart liberals trying to end the war in Iraq. But I decided to read the topic anyways and found that your topic wasn't quite so.You actually bring up an interesting point.While yes, the boys now are treated much better then they were a long time ago (I'm just going by what I am hearing, I wasn't alive back then) They are still being unfairly treated. When you have psycopaths like Cindy Sheanne running around, telling them that all of their blood, sweat, and tears were for nothing, what do you call that?However, had Vietnam not occoured, who's to say that the troops today would not have been treated like that? Don't we all learn from our past?But I do aplaud your S. O. (Excuze me for not knowing what that is) because war is hard, and painfull. I clap for every serviceman, who has ever faught, because I know what it is like, not only on the soldier, but on the fanilies left behind as well.When I was in the 3rd grade, my dad was deployed. Everything was crazy. There were times when they had communications blackouts and we didn't know weather my dad would be comming home or not.GO USA!!!!!

[TikiPrincess 0]

I think that people realized that the Vietnam vets shouldn't have been treated so horribly. People began to see the psychological effects of war. In WWII, servicemen came home "shell-shocked," but it wasn't talked about and they either learned how to repress those feelings in the rigid and conformist society of the 50s and 60s or disappeared from view, either quietly reposing or shoved out forcefully. Only after Vietnam and Korea did psychologists coin the term "Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder" and see that it was a pressing problem. I'm sure that there were probably cases dating back to the American Revolution, if not further. However, I also think that as humanity progresses further and further from our roots as a hunter-gatherer society, the implications of war become much more pronounced than before. Before the Industrial Revolution, the preservation of life was foremost in everyone's mind, the survival instinct. Most people lived off the land and killed for their food. It was an acceptable part of life. Now, meat comes pre-packaged at the market, hardly resembling the animal it was in life. Death, murder, and killing are something relegated to criminals and heroes, not normal people. But that's what soldiers are trained to do. And it's sometimes hard to reconcile yourself to that fact. Of course, there's also the heightened sense of surrealism when bombs go off a few feet from where you were standing just 10 minutes ago... and where your buddies were still standing.Most people also realize that our soldiers aren't the ones responsible for the war. They're just doing what they're told. In fact, there are probably a few soldiers over in Iraq that have the same questions that our protesters do. They don't know why they're there or what they're supposed to do or how to do it. Some of the more adamant protesters are mothers who lived through Vietnam and may have experienced the painful loss of a loved one or the more painful return of a man completely changed by his experience. And these women don't want to see that happen to their sons or daughters. I don't think, though, that the Vietnam vets would begrudge the returning soldiers a warm welcome. I doubt that they would want soldiers coming home from Iraq experiencing the same reception they had when they came home from Vietnam. Yeah, there might be a bit of jealousy, but I think they would rather see this than reliving the hate and shame and prejudice they received. People don't want another Vietnam, either during the war or the aftermath.

[whiskers_w 0]

During the entire war with Iraq, there has been a tremendous outpouring of support for our troops. There are groups that organize letter drives, packages, and I even saw a bit on TV the other day about a Music company that is sending guitars over the the boys. Almost every car you see has a "Support Our Troops" ribbon on it. Seems as though every community has it's own little project going to show support for our military. And when a fighting man or woman finally gets to come home, the whole town seems to turn out, with fanfare, bands, news media, the whole ball of wax. They are given a real hero's welcome. And of course, I do believe they deserve it.

 

Now lets go back a few years. The boys that came home from Vietnam were treated like dirt. They were often practicly smuggled back into the country at night. When it was discovered that some boys were coming in, the crowds showed up and spit on them and called them baby killers. My very own S. O. came home and when he went to the unemployment office to try to get back to work, the *BLEEP* working there looked at his military record and had the nerve to tell him, "Well, when Al Capone has an opening, we'll let you know."

 

These boys fought and died and did their job and did what their government asked of them. Why were they treated like criminals and the Iraq troops are all considered hero's????? I really feel bad for the Vietnam vets. And now they are listening to all the fanfare the troops are getting now, that has got to hurt.

Now, son, let me remind you of one thing that may help you understand the difference between Vietnam and Iraq. When we were involved in Vietnam, the war dragged on against the will of the people for so long the public was totally frustrated. When the troops returned, people were merely glad to see the end of the conflict, and literally FORGOT to offer the returning troops their thanks, in part because the government had persisted in keeping the troops over there AGAINST the will of the people. This caused frustration, and in their frustration, the people overlooked the troops. This was an unfortunate consequence of bad policy.

 

The lesson to be learned from this is to force the government to abandon bad policy early. Part of this responsibility rests with the troops themselves. They must be honest with themselves and their families about their mission and performance. We all recognize that they are ALL ORDERED to go over there to fight for their country. They are ordered to carry out the mission policy makers have carved out for them. Even though they are there under ORDERS, they have to make sure that the mission stays intact. They have to be responsible to report deviations from that mission, and side missions that they observe being implemented that appear to conflict with the original mission. They must, therefore keep their families and superiors informed. They have to be patriotic to the original stated mission, and staunchly vigilant against deviations, by pointing out to superiors and families alike that the mission is being undermined by such actions. They have to be patriotic on two fronts, which is usually easier said than done, but vital to any successful mission. Especially over the long term.

 

It's only mutiny when the orders are legitimate. In fact, as has been so often demonstrated, troops have a duty to disobey illegal orders. This is something that helps eliminate frustration with the mission by the folks back home. If soldiers are involved in illegal torture and other unjust and / or criminal acts that make a mockery of the values they are supposed to be fighting to protect, they have no reason to expect hero's welcomes. Heroes display courage under fire and courage on the battle field. Courage is courage. Of course, its usually difficult to summon up courage, which is why the military and the nation rewards it with honor. However, there is also courage in the face of courts martial, courage to say no to illegal deviations from American values or deviations from the stated mission. It is a soldier's duty to question orders that in his mind are incompatible with either his values or the stated mission. Courageous soldiers force their superiors to stay within the mission, and cowardly soldiers just go along blindly. Victory erases cowardice for a while. But when victory is short-lived, cowardice is long lived...

 

Hopefully our troops in Iraq can summon up the courage to expedite the will of the people, and return home as heroes. I look forward to that day. Don't you?

[sheepdog 10]

Well, I am glad you decided to read it afterall, I may be a lot of things, but a bleeding heart liberal is not on the list!

It would be nice to think that we may of learned from our past mistakes and for that reason we are now showing more support for the boys comming home. I'm just not convinced that humans have improved that much since the 60's & 70's. I sure haven't seen much in the way of any other improvements.

But there have been disenters for every war ever fought, and the likes of lunatics like Cindy Sheanne have made the same arguments and the same protests at every turn. Lets not forget Hanoi Jane Fonda, who's actions and stupidity cause the beating deaths of more than one soldier. While Sheanne may be working her mouth overtime, at least the only one she is hurting is herself.

I don't think that being indifferent to to length of the war, or just not caring that they were back would cause protestors to harrass homecoming soldiers and call them baby killers. Thre is a major difference in "forgetting" they are comming back and being there to spit in their faces when they did come home. The honesty of our troops will play out for years to come, There are the prison scandals and the masicures that occure and captivate the media, but we all know that in any given population not everyone is going to play fair, there are always those that will do wroung, but it is not right to judge all by the actions of a few, as was done with the Vietnam vets.

I don't think, though, that the Vietnam vets would begrudge the returning soldiers a warm welcome.

Oh, I don't think so either. I'm sure they are bigger and better than that, and they know how badly they were treated and would never want to see any other soldier treated that way. It's just got to be really hard on their own emotions to see the tremendous amount of support that they never got.

[garbage 0]

Im not sure on what the differences are but regardless, the president chose to go to war, and as always there will always be a group that supports as well as a group that will not support.Thats life and thats the way we are as people.Think about it, will there ever be peace in the world. No. Im pretty sure of that. Will every one ever be supported of war. No. thats for sure.so regardless of what war it is it will always be the same people will call it a useless war, but what can you do.As a soldier all you do is devote yourself to your country regardless of what the country decides to do.No has been forced to do this. there hasn't been a draft in so long. so people who join the military know that they will more than likely have to face issues that they may not ageree with but they will still have to go along with them.So the biggest diffrence between Vietnam an dno is that alot of t he soldiers then were forced to war due to draft. so that is a big difference. there alone.

[sheepdog 10]

Think about it, will there ever be peace in the world. No. Im pretty sure of that. Will every one ever be supported of war. No. thats for sure.

Sad though it may be, I suspect you are right, I doubt there will ever be any form of long lasting peace. Way too many people way too eager to force their own personal beliefs down the throats of others.

So the biggest diffrence between Vietnam an dno is that alot of t he soldiers then were forced to war due to draft. so that is a big difference. there alone.

So, you would think since they were forced to go that the public would of been MORE sympathetic to the poor returning soldiers. After all, they didn't want to go over there and do all those horrible things they were acused of.

[kasm 0]

During the entire war with Iraq, there has been a tremendous outpouring of support for our troops.

.......

 

The boys that came home from Vietnam were treated like dirt. .....

 

These boys fought and died and did their job and did what their government asked of them. Why were they treated like criminals and the Iraq troops are all considered hero's????? I really feel bad for the Vietnam vets.

1. We have in Australia the same situation to the soldiers returned from Vietnam. They were treated badly . They are still complaining and fighting for recognition.

 

2. In general, when people compare Vietnam and Iraq they know there are difference but there are common factors:

- It is difficult to decide to withdraw or to continue

- Soldiers aren't the ones responsible for the war. They are victims They're just doing what they're told.

- Solders didn't feel that they are really fight for their country as the case of WW2

 

3. In both wars were support at the beginning and were given a real hero's welcome to returned solider es. But by the time this support was decreasing. and they would be less welcomed.

 

4. It is inconsistent to demonstrate against the war then to hero's welcome the returned troops as hero's. Even people respect the troops and valued their sacrifices but they looking to them as a victim of the government policy. They considered the official award by the army or upgraded them is enough to them.

[garbage 0]

That sucks that the Australian soldiers have to go thru the same thing and esp[ecially because most of them where forced into it. and they should be recoginzed for that but peoples issues with governments cloud over the good stuff.. all to just try to point out a political issue and statement..But regardless of the situations I will always respect and acknowledge those who have faught in wars. im sure its not an easy thing to go thru.. and they deserve it.