My Confusion About Dead/non-existence

[Kubi 0]

I've been thinking to myself about this for quite a while now. And finally I'm giving up on trying to figure it out for myself.Death. Being dead. Not existing the the human realm.I keep trying to imagine if the human race never existed, if I never existed, where would "I" be. As a conscience being it's impossible for me to imagine "me" not existing. This is one of the only reasons I believe in an after-life. If we died, and were wiped from the face of this..universe, where would our conscience be? It's so hard for me to explain this, bear with me here. If you understand what I'm trying to say you just made this a whole lot easier.I see it impossible to just die and have no conscience anywhere. Hell, heaven, space, an endless void. SOMEWHERE! If you even understand what I'm trying to say, is there anyone that agrees with me? Please don't jump right to the heaven and hell act. Sure that's where some people believe you go. But what about an Avalon? And when I say Avalon, I mean some sort of mythical place. You know, that you see in those fiction books. No, I don't read many. But maybe there is one? Join me in my crazy fantasies and crazy places. Just think, a place where anything is possible, flying without wings, teleportation, whatever, you name it. Anything we've discussed here in the inventions forum. We talk about a teleportation device, but what if we could do it with our minds?Ok I kinda got side tracked. But I don't believe in non-existence! Sorry if I completely lost some of you, I promise, I'm not crazy. Yet. If I keep thinking about this I will be .

[OpaQue 15]

I will try my best to give you my thoughts by my MIND (brain) and not something from my conscience being.

 

"conscience being" is above the level of your mind. And Above this "conscience" is your soul which is the absolute truth. (talking spiritually)

 

LEVELS (my views by the information which I have got through books and my trips*)

 

Your SOUL (unaffected by anything, has no character or anything associated with it.)

 

-> Your "conscience" (where things like KARMA, past, present and time comes in picture)

 

---> Your Mind. (the most un-controllable thing you might have ever come across - which defines your physical plane)

 

-----> Your Senses. (Eyes, Nose, Ears, Mouth, Skin)

 

Some people refer your MIND as one of your senses. Which I put at the top of the basic senses because it has the power to control the others. As well as to get easily exploited by yourself.

 

I keep trying to imagine if the human race never existed, if I never existed, where would "I" be.

You would be wandering in the ASTRAL plane. Or the plane of conscience. This plane can be said to be the one where you float around when you are dreaming. :-)

 

As a conscience being it's impossible for me to imagine "me" not existing.

True, because of your mind. Your mind is bound to the materialistic world.

This is one of the only reasons I believe in an after-life. If we died, and were wiped from the face of this..universe, where would our conscience be? It's so hard for me to explain this, bear with me here. If you understand what I'm trying to say you just made this a whole lot easier.

I know what you are saying. But the only source which gave me answers very near to my experience and understanding was spirituality. I can speak in its terms but it would again mean we are talking about something which is outside the domain of our MIND. I hope, you get what I mean to say. Its like saying, "An artificial intelligence program finally realizes its true identity. It is just a program made up of 0 and 1."

 

 

I see it impossible to just die and have no conscience anywhere.

You are right.

 

Hell, heaven, space, an endless void. SOMEWHERE! If you even understand what I'm trying to say, is there anyone that agrees with me? Please don't jump right to the heaven and hell act. Sure that's where some people believe you go. But what about an Avalon? And when I say Avalon, I mean some sort of mythical place. You know, that you see in those fiction books. No, I don't read many. But maybe there is one? Join me in my crazy fantasies and crazy places. Just think, a place where anything is possible, flying without wings, teleportation, whatever, you name it. Anything we've discussed here in the inventions forum. We talk about a teleportation device, but what if we could do it with our minds?

When you speak of conscience, its defined to be extremely minute, in-destructible, ever existent etc. Which means, its different from your physical existence. When you die, its your body that dies. Your memory, your senses are all defined by your brains. But the thing which puts life in it is your "conscience". I am glad you have an understanding of this and may be felt this. You might have a voice ringing in your head trying to pull you to some type of a different reality.. But your mind counteracting and refusing its voice. :-) Happens everywhere..

 

"conscience" is not bound my material plane. As far as my understanding goes, its just a thought. Following one thing at a time. For "conscience", Time frankly cannot be a parameter. If it was in a tortoise, its time frame of life and death is 200 yrs. Whereas for a human, its about 80-100 years. Besides, according to the science of PRANAYAM, it says your life is calculated on the basis of the no. of breaths you take. It makes sense if you compare the chart of "Breaths per minute" of different animals and their life span. (You will have to do lots of researching to confirm the points I have put forth). Understanding this gives you an idea of theory of relativity. :-)

 

Why did I compare TIME with LIFE & Death?

If you believe that your CONSCIENCE never dies. Then conscience belonging to every living Species will be ACTIVE every single time. Consider the FRACTION of a second, where every one of the living being is ALIVE. Every being is defining time in a way it can perceive it.

 

Considering that you are no longer bound to PHYSICAL PLANE (or materialistic plane), Yes, it is ok to say you can do anything. Because, the Physical plane is bound by the rules of CAUSE AND EFFECT - ACTION/REACTION. Or in Hinduism, its said as "KARMA".

 

I do not know much about heaven and hell. But I feel the life we are living is HELL. For some it might be HEAVEN. I personally do not count it as heaven or hell because then I m taking my present condition for granted. Its called a suffering for a reason according to BUDDHISM. It has deep meaning to it. Just imagine the life you are living at the moment, bound by the emotions of your closed ones, responsibilities towards your health, your wealth and your family..

 

Life is what we make it and its how we define good or bad. Your mind and nothing else has defined GOOD and BAD. You define Right and Wrong. Your conscience being does not know whats good or bad. its more like neutral. Because you were happy (at a higher level) you felt sad (when you climbed down in your emotional level). If you understand that EVERYTHING in this world is finally defined by you and you are the reason for perceiving the world the way it is now. You will understand the ROOT cause of all suffering is "ego". How do I define EGO ? One might say I have no EgO. Did you ever think, Your Name itself is the starting point of ego. When you say, "I am", your ego meter has begun. "I am this.. I did that, I want this. " etc. Not many people have got my point regarding this. But for a FREE life, one must know that the root of all suffering is Ego.

 

I have noticed, in any person THREE factors usually act as constants.

 

1. HEALTH (his physical and mental health)

2. WEALTH (his assets, his living style.. etc)

3. FAMILY (his friends, relationships, family ..)

 

If one goes up, the other two suffer. :-) Putting it in a simple way..

 

Anyways, What you are talking about is Spirituality. Which is a vast ocean of knowledge and a whole new dimension of life. I enjoy listening to views of people and their beliefs. I don't mind when people call me crazy, psychotic or anything. Sitting in a group, If 5 people call me with names, its again upto me.. to laugh it off and take it as a joke. Or get emotional and blame myself.. :-)

 

Thanks for the topic which allowed me to contribute my 2 cents.. :-)

[truefusion 3]

Kubi, i'm sure many, if not most, people have gone through similar questions that you have stated; i know i have. It is hard or impossible to imagine a place where nothing exists. It makes me think up an I.D. theory that God made it that way so people may seek Him; so that people may ask, "Is anyone out there?"

 

The universe, as we know it, probably isn't "infinite." Indeed, how could it expand and contract if it was infinite? I for one don't believe it is infinite. I believe more in "layers," where there is something beyond the "layer" that we call "the universe." But this may confuse things more.

[hr=noshade] [/hr]

But the thing which puts life in it is your "conscience".

By the use of words, in this sense, you make one's "conscience" turn out to be their spirit, which agrees with some of the things you've mentioned and makes more sense out of things. But that causes some definitional and relational problems in the following:

And Above this "conscience" is your soul which is the absolute truth. (talking spiritually)

Your SOUL (unaffected by anything, has no character or anything associated with it.)

 

-> Your "conscience" (where things like KARMA, past, present and time comes in picture)

As far as my understanding goes, its just a thought.

Your memory, your senses are all defined by your brains.

The soul isn't supposed to be greater than the spirit, for the spirit is supposed to be the one in control of the soul. Although many claim that the soul and spirit are the same things, some religions explain both differently (usually the soul being feelings or emotions) or at least in a way that makes it look like two different things. Although the spirit has control over the soul, the soul can affect the spirit in a good or bad way. Depending on how "spiritual" a person is will determine how the soul affects the spirit.

 

The soul, when it is one with the mind, is affected by things. It is affected by what it is attached to and by what the spirit allows it to attach itself to.

 

If the conscience is just a thought, then it can be forgotten. If it can be forgotten, then it is not something that can last forever.

[hr=noshade] [/hr]

Every being is defining time in a way it can perceive it.

This statement is hard to claim as true, for other beings are probably not even aware of such a thing as "time." To make this statement you would have to be mindful of what every other being is mindful of—in my opinion, not (humanly) possible. And what about God (if you believe in Him), the One said to be the Creator of time?

[hr=noshade] [/hr]

As for Heaven and hell, you would have to consider certain things; for example, how things came into existence and why they came into existence; this may be a whole other topic within itself.

 

As for an "Avalon," that would be part of the asking of: "Why did these things come into existence?" In order for an Avalon to exist, it may have to be given as an "award." Or things would just exist into an Avalon to start with, without us having to go through any troubles.

[OpaQue 15]

I have studied only two books till date which guide you into Spirituality. Buddhism and Hinduism.. I have just tried my best to refer things from those.

I cannot prove or show whatever I have said.

In my above post, by Spirit or by Soul, I mean its one and the same.

CONSCIENCE is something between SOUL and BODY (my understanding - can be wrong - please correct me if I am.)

We cannot say, THIS IS A BAD SOUL or BAD SPIRIT. The soul is something which I regard as the absolute. Its has no properties or has nothing to do with the material world.

The soul isn't supposed to be greater than the spirit, for the spirit is supposed to be the one in control of the soul. Although many claim that the soul and spirit are the same things, some religions explain both differently (usually the soul being feelings or emotions) or at least in a way that makes it look like two different things. Although the spirit has control over the soul, the soul can affect the spirit in a good or bad way. Depending on how "spiritual" a person is will determine how the soul affects the spirit.

You say "SPIRIT" and "SOUL" different.
You referring CONSCIENCE as SPIRIT. If I put it in this way, what you say makes sense :-)


1.]-->Your SOUL (unaffected by anything, has no character or anything associated with it.)
2.]---> Your "conscience" (where things like KARMA, past, present and time comes in picture)
3.]-----> Your Mind. (the most un-controllable thing you might have ever come across - which defines your physical plane)
4.]-------> Your Senses. (Eyes, Nose, Ears, Mouth, Skin)

[Unstoppable 0]

Hmm. Interesting. You all seem to seperate the mind and body. Dualisticly speaking everything you guys say is in some way correct. I even see subdivisions of the thing I call the 'mind'. If i continue along your road, I must say i don't really agree with that. I think the mind is one, and conscience and soul are merely parts or specific area's, if you catch my drift. So, when we die, our mindsoulconscience is a package, not seperable things.But basicly i'm not a dualist. Or let's say, not completly.Let me explain:we interact with an envirment through the use of our senses, which are all physical functions. One could perhaps see the body a container for the mind. A car, and the mind a driver. Now when we see it like that, we must conclude that our mind is completly entwined with the body, since the imput is all the same. But still we can think things that aren't anywhere around - i'm talking about the abstract thinking, not the imagination, which usually deals with thing already seen. I'm talking about things like math and such. If we can do that, there must be another imput for the mind. But it's not exterior. It has an internal source. Imo the mind is a source of it's own. That is why we are sentient and have things like a conscience and stuff. To answer wether it would go somewhere when the body dies, is another thing. I believe that since the mind is the thing who filters the sensoric imputs, the signal received from the outside, we partly create our own reality. Because the mind selects a part from the external signals, and 'completes the picture' by adding from it's own (as being a source) - this is every interpretation, memory, visual selection etc. etc.Therefore it could possibly be that when we die, thus when the external imput is gone, the mind therefore only takes info from it's own. It's creates a complete, own reality, without any other external imputs. We, as still living, don't detect other 'minds' since we only interact with objects who can be percepted by our body. The mind however, is not part of such an object.This is in short my idea about the whole mind and matter thing.

[OpaQue 15]

Therefore it could possibly be that when we die, thus when the external imput is gone, the mind therefore only takes info from it's own. It's creates a complete, own reality, without any other external imputs.

If you die, how can the mind survive ? Now you are referring not referring to your mind but something ELSE (which is "you" and not your mind/brain). You can call this conscience, soul, spirit .. (different people gave it different names - I do not consider myself to have the knowledge to talk about this entity in detail)

[galexcd 0]

This topic used to always confuse me. The thought of non-existence. It was the scariest thing in the world and if you are interested in this topic, I suggest that you take a moment and read my post. The thought of dead always made me uneasy, and I felt just as you do KuBi.

I keep trying to imagine if the human race never existed, if I never existed, where would "I" be. As a conscience being it's impossible for me to imagine "me" not existing. This is one of the only reasons I believe in an after-life. If we died, and were wiped from the face of this..universe, where would our conscience be? It's so hard for me to explain this, bear with me here. If you understand what I'm trying to say you just made this a whole lot easier.

I used to think of the exact same thing, if the human race didn't exist what the hell would I feel and think? I thought it was impossible to not have an afterlife either. I used to spend hours in my bed just thinking what it could possibly feel like to start dying. I felt that it was probably similar to sleeping, and if thats true, you can always just wake yourself up, but a few years ago I realized a possibility.

I don't know if any of you users have ever gotten up fast enough that you get dizzy and black-out, but that happens to me all the time. Usually not bad, just enough to really annoy me But one morning I got up and all i could sense was me getting really dizzy. Before I knew it, I was falling. For about half of the fall I knew I was falling but I didn't even care. It was the strangest feeling in the world. I was detached from the world and I didn't even care what was happening until I completely lost consciousness (only for about a second). Once I hit the floor I started to wake up and I realized what had happened, and also realized that in my fall I tore up my side on a metal drawer. I didn't even notice that while falling that I had landed on the corner of the drawer.

Now I'm not saying I'm a genius at death or anything, but I can't imagine dying being much different. The lack of blood to your brain will slowly make it shut down and eventually feel the exact way I was feeling. Just slowly not knowing, not caring. I do believe in God, and an afterlife, but If I am wrong in my beliefs this is what I think death would be like. The thought of not existing just got a whole lot easier for me.

[whale_shark 0]

I've been thinking to myself about this for quite a while now. And finally I'm giving up on trying to figure it out for myself.
Death. Being dead. Not existing the the human realm.

I keep trying to imagine if the human race never existed, if I never existed, where would "I" be. As a conscience being it's impossible for me to imagine "me" not existing. This is one of the only reasons I believe in an after-life. If we died, and were wiped from the face of this..universe, where would our conscience be? It's so hard for me to explain this, bear with me here. If you understand what I'm trying to say you just made this a whole lot easier.

I see it impossible to just die and have no conscience anywhere. Hell, heaven, space, an endless void. SOMEWHERE! If you even understand what I'm trying to say, is there anyone that agrees with me? Please don't jump right to the heaven and hell act. Sure that's where some people believe you go. But what about an Avalon? And when I say Avalon, I mean some sort of mythical place. You know, that you see in those fiction books. No, I don't read many. But maybe there is one? Join me in my crazy fantasies and crazy places. Just think, a place where anything is possible, flying without wings, teleportation, whatever, you name it. Anything we've discussed here in the inventions forum. We talk about a teleportation device, but what if we could do it with our minds?

Ok I kinda got side tracked. But I don't believe in non-existence! Sorry if I completely lost some of you, I promise, I'm not crazy. Yet. If I keep thinking about this I will be :XD:.

No one can say for sure what happens when we day, but somethings in your post is wrong.to me it seems that you think you or human race are important part of universe or even this world. well that is totally wrong universe and this world would continue to exist and function even if we weren't here(and for our planet that would be even better). think of humans as some kind of animals that have a little more developed brain and from that their conscience comes. but when your brain dies your conscience goes away(just like animals).it is not something like spirit it is just chemistry and physics in the brain which can be on simpler or more complicated and the prove of that is that different species of animals have different intelligence and even within one species there are differences like in humans.some animals can be thought to communicate on the level of the 3 year old child. if there was something more then level of brain development why would someone be more intelligent than the other.why wouldn't we all be the same and in the end why we develop intelligence(and everything that comes with it) as we grow.

[Kubi 0]

but when your brain dies your conscience goes away(just like animals).

So without giving a second thought you're ok with thinking that once we're dead, we know longer exist. Anywhere. Anyplace. Anyhow. We're dead, we're dead, we have no conscience. Basically that's what you think? I can't even begin to grasp the thought of that, I believe we HAVE to exist SOMEWHERE, whether it be our body, or spirit, in the form of a ghost or reincarnation. I really don't care how, I just feel like I NEED to have some sort of conscientiousness. Even if it's not heaven or hell.

[Watermonkey 0]

I suppose I'll toss a couple cents into this discussion just to add some depth and meaning and, hopefully, some clarity. But first, to Whale, I found your post difficult to read due to terrible grammar and punctuation and just general sloppy, lazy writing. If you wish to communicate, you might consider spending more time to make yourself better understood. I think the gist of your point is we're without a future in the universe once the light of life is extinguished. Is that right? Atheists believe this, I think. From where I sit, you're wrong. Also, you appear to think the universe wouldn't miss a speck like you or me or even the entire human race. Again, you're wrong. The universe contains a given amount of energy, and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That which animates our human bodies is made of energy. Without each and every one of us, even you, even Shree (just kidding, Shree), the universe would be incomplete and that just isn't possible.

 

There are two aspects that make up our meager existence: The physical and the Spiritual. The connection between the Spirit and the Mind and body is a cord that resembles an umbilical cord but isn't usually seen. Many people have described the out of body experience (O.B.E.) to mean the conscienceness or spiritual self is able to actually travel in a real and physical way while the body is resting or unconscience. The return journey, often ending with a jarring impact, is made possible by this ethereal connection, this tether between the body and the spirit. When the body expires, the tether, which, presumably, is energy-based, separates from the physical realm and the the spirit is released from the physical, earthly, hell (Shree's word) that has been its captor for those long long years of slavery to be free once again in its own alternate plane of existence (heaven? hell?). I believe that what we do while on this plane echoes eternally as we'll suffer or benefit from the karma we've built for ourselves in the next life(s). If a person kills another without cause or commits suicide without pain, he'll spend a thousand years in the depths of slavery to redeem his spirit. Committing any of the "deadly sins" will cause you to slide backwards in your quest to "get it right" and will only add more time to your sentence in this material world. Freedom is something we all should strive for and we can experience it, if for the briefest of moments, during a state of total relaxation when we're able to shrug off the material, the pain, the weight, and glide toward the heavens, soar with the gulls and eagles... This is the point of all the blood, sweat, and tears. To finally be done with it all. It's a difficult, often lonely, often dirty and discouraging road we each must travel to reach the common destination: eternal freedom, but travel it we must. Keep your physical bodies clean and pure so you can travel far each time you're here for the spirit carries with it no easily accessible memory of the life you've lived before and we must re-learn it all again from square one every time we're thrust into this cold dark world of suffering, hatred, violence, slavery, beauty, wonder, pleasure, and pain. But remember, if it's material, it's only temporary. Only your spirit will continue on forever, and forever is a long time.

 

Just one man's reality. Shaken, not stirred.

[robcozzens 0]

This is a very deep topic and you made some good points. I think you really hit on something when you mentioned believing in an after-life because you can't imagine not existing. Personally I think that is a big reason most people so easily believe in an after-life.It is very difficult to think of ourselves as just a product of our brains. We feel like we must be eternal. It doesn't make sense that we would stop existing. As you mentioned, where would our consciousness go?But where does our consciousness go when we are asleep (and not dreaming)? Where was our consciousness before we were born?I believe that our brain / mind / consciousness are the result of evolution. According to Jeff Hawkins, the main goal of our mind is to predict the future (the very near future). We can visualize ourselves in the future because it is useful for our survival and reproduction. There would be no benefit to visualizing ourselves no longer existing and so we can't do it.Admittedly that is a very simplified explanation.

[keego 0]

I've been thinking to myself about this for quite a while now. And finally I'm giving up on trying to figure it out for myself.
Death. Being dead. Not existing the the human realm.

I keep trying to imagine if the human race never existed, if I never existed, where would "I" be. As a conscience being it's impossible for me to imagine "me" not existing. This is one of the only reasons I believe in an after-life. If we died, and were wiped from the face of this..universe, where would our conscience be? It's so hard for me to explain this, bear with me here. If you understand what I'm trying to say you just made this a whole lot easier.

I see it impossible to just die and have no conscience anywhere. Hell, heaven, space, an endless void. SOMEWHERE! If you even understand what I'm trying to say, is there anyone that agrees with me? Please don't jump right to the heaven and hell act. Sure that's where some people believe you go. But what about an Avalon? And when I say Avalon, I mean some sort of mythical place. You know, that you see in those fiction books. No, I don't read many. But maybe there is one? Join me in my crazy fantasies and crazy places. Just think, a place where anything is possible, flying without wings, teleportation, whatever, you name it. Anything we've discussed here in the inventions forum. We talk about a teleportation device, but what if we could do it with our minds?

Ok I kinda got side tracked. But I don't believe in non-existence! Sorry if I completely lost some of you, I promise, I'm not crazy. Yet. If I keep thinking about this I will be .

OMG i didnt know this page existed i wrote a shorter version of my feelings towards this on a different page.

Finally someone believes and thinks what i think, oh and some of you here say that there is no use in picturing us not existing so we dont.
Well for me its another case, you say that where was our conscience before birth, well do you ever just stand around one day
and a event happens or even small things like someone comes ring your door bell but you've felt like you've seen it all before?

Its like hey havent i pictured this person ringing my door bell right at this time looking exactly the same as he or she is right infront of me?

well i have and i never figured out where i see those visions. is it my dream? mayb my past lfe? maybe the life before birth was exactly the life im living but i just live it over and over again? I guess in this world you never know, things are fascinating.
Sometimes the things i vision has a bad ending. for some reason when it happens the ending is good though, so by that sometimes i think in this life do i get to see what happened so i can avoid the mistakes i done in the past?

sounds wierd? Well these things really happen to me,im not saying that Im can see the future or have any powers, jst sometimes i see a situation that i think i have seen before because i always know what will happen next.

So how is it that we wont exist when we die, or we didnt exist before birth? I guess i just can't believe it because so much things happen to me that causes me to not believe it.

I hope someone out there knows how i feel, i guess i just really want to express it .. it fustrates me keeping it inside.

[Sica-GURU 0]

this is the reason why most of the people believe in after-death...Yes it is possible but it's not a sure thing.But thing about things that make no sense and accept a no-after-death-life...If we're not existing there will be no problem to existing (mean - remaining nothing ) after death...If we're becoming "nothing" after death is not such a cruel thing...I mean what life after death you hope to be?! a better one?is possible to be no life after death, thing about a PC-program ...he was not there until a PC-programmer started to build it up...and bring it to "live"the program could as well "die" any time the programmer wants, and there's no life after death for the program it can be rebuild ed but it will be the same ? I guess not...so the same thing with us... either we're sent to recycle bin, updated or deleted we're happy to exist and ask about our intelligent living bins future )

[OpaQue 15]

I feel, All animals are happier than many humans and Trees enjoy a perpetual state of bliss. So don't worry about afterlife, you will be blissful regardless. You really have nothing to lose except friends and family.