Obes, Astral Projection, Esp Our discussion of the paranormal human experience

[Watermonkey 0]

Well it looks like our posts were inadvertently erased with the upgrade and I barely remember exactly how I was going to respond to your posts. If you happen to have saved your write-ups please post them, otherwise we'll just have to try and hammer it out. While you're posts were flattering enough to shut me up, I still think I had a couple things to say. For instance, while I'm leaning toward reincarnation, I am not completely vested since I have little if any evidence and lots of time to sort it out. It makes the most sense for me of all the alternatives. Regarding brick walls and jungle foliage, I think it's the texture... Something to do with the texture that makes it easier to blend in. Sorry I didn't save all that. I didn't realize it was an issue, maybe before they do major work like that in the future, they'd be well advised to warn us all a week in advance to save what's important to us.

Edited February 3, 2007 by Watermonkey (see edit history)

[Misanthrope 0]

I see the topic thread covers a number or paranormal subjects. For now, I'll just share a few of my some experiences I had with Astral Projection as a tot:I first experienced this phenomenon, not surprisingly, as a young child devoid of earthly cares. I remember dreams so vivid I can still recall them in a fair amount of detail today. During one, I floated and hovered near the ceiling of my bedroom, aware that I had somehow separated from my physical shell. I then proceeded to float out of the house and over the roof , and although it was night, it appeared to be daytime on the outside, and the sky was a vibrant, almost alive ? azure blue. Something about dreams that seems to accentuate colors, at least for me. Repeated projections also occurred during the dreamtime state. One involved a dream of standing under a particular tree in our backyard, which allowed me to fly. In these lucid dreams, all I had to do was stand under this tree, and up, up and away I went. Not so much flying but more like floating around. And again, although the projections/dreams happened at night, the imagery was of daytime.As a teenager, I once woke up in a cold sweat after realizing I had left my body. This time, everything appeared just as dark as the night actually was, which leads me to believe this was a real projection, however accidental. My body was sleeping in the basement, but I recall sitting on the couch of the main floor, looking at a blank TV set, and wondering what the heck I was doing there while everyone else was obviously sleeping ? myself included! Ah ? that?s when it dawned on me I was sitting there ? but not really. I realized that my body was downstairs, but "I" was sitting upstairs staring at a blank screen. Wait a minute! In an instant, I was back in my physical shell again. I shot up from the bed in a bit of a panic, heart palpitating and cold beads of sweat forming on my face. No ? it wasn?t a nightmare or panic attack. I had just been lucidly aware of projecting to another room of the house. What struck me was how as a teenager I reacted differently to this experience. It provoked more of a fearful pattern than it had as a tot.I can only imagine this sort of thing happens a lot more than what we actually remember. Perhaps that?s a good thing??.?

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Arrgghhh watermonkey, this is horrible, our posts have disappeared - we had an interesting discussion going. Did you read my answer to your post here? I didn't get to read your answer to my post, if any - net connections aren't exactly very reliable in my part of the world, so I'm sometimes out of touch for a week or so.

 

 

Anyway, I suppose all we can do is to continue this topic. Vbritton (and everyone else), Watermonkey and I were having a VERY interesting discussion (which has since vanished - an example of paranormal phenomena? just kidding) - anyway, it was about how a person's emotional and psychic emanation is as much an aspect of his/her visibility to others as the physical presence. For example, watermonkey cited examples in which he was able to make himself 'invisible' while walking through a room full of people. In Ninjutsu we actually learn to deaden nerve centers which are 'psychic transmitters' and to avoid 'transmitting our emotions'. As a matter of fact, this usually takes years of training to get 'right', so watermonkey is one of those rare people who's a 'natural'. My teachers would have really liked to meet him.

 

To cite an everyday example, sometimes if you're walking on the street you might find that you 'sense' someone looking at the back of your head and turn around - this is just such an example of you 'feeling' emotional/psychic emanations projected by someone else.

 

________________________________

As for an actual obe - well, the skeptics here might call it imagination, and I won't disagree, but I'll share my experience.

 

I often sit in meditation - this is not a meditation with any purpose in mind, it's just sitting with an empty mind. Indeed, in the east we believe that to sit in meditation with a purpose in mind is to defeat that very purpose.

 

Anyway, one day recently when I was sitting in meditation in this way, I seemed to separate from my body and float upwards. This was not at all controlled by me, and when I left my body I seemed to be made up of white light, without any real physical shape. And thoughts came to me, but time seemed to have slowed, so that even the thoughts were in slow motion. And I was sitting indoors in meditation, and when I left my body I floated straight up, through the roof, and continued to rise beyond the atmosphere, beyond the universe (which didn't appear to be 'vast' at all, but more like a shell) and then I approached and merged with a great light, and I sensed billions of entities within that light, yet they were all actually part of the whole, not separate, as I was not separate. And while I didn't lose my individuality, it receded in importance. And I was conscious of great happiness, fulfillment, a sense of coming home - no words can express the feeling, it was beyond words. And I spent a long, long time there - or rather, I spent a timeless period there; again 'there' 'time' was not what it seems here - but after an indeterminate period which nevertheless 'seemed' long, I knew that I had to return, that there were reasons for it (unrevealed) and I left the light and journeyed back to my body and opened my eyes.

 

Imagination? It's possible, indeed. Yet since this experience, the materialistic norms that most people go by have little hold on me. It's as if I was given a great gift, greater than any this world could offer, and it suffices.

[Watermonkey 0]

Arrgghhh watermonkey, this is horrible, our posts have disappeared - we had an interesting discussion going. Did you read my answer to your post here? I didn't get to read your answer to my post, if any - net connections aren't exactly very reliable in my part of the world, so I'm sometimes out of touch for a week or so.

Yes. I read your post, though I don't remember it now, and I was just formulating a response when the whole topic disappeared. Bummer. It was promising to be a good discussion. Now I'm kinda gun-shy if you know what I mean... I lost a lot of work and I hate when that happens. I just haven't been posting the same since.

 

Anyway, I suppose all we can do is to continue this topic. Vbritton (and everyone else), Watermonkey and I were having a VERY interesting discussion (which has since vanished - an example of paranormal phenomena? just kidding) - anyway, it was about how a person's emotional and psychic emanation is as much an aspect of his/her visibility to others as the physical presence. For example, watermonkey cited examples in which he was able to make himself 'invisible' while walking through a room full of people. In Ninjutsu we actually learn to deaden nerve centers which are 'psychic transmitters' and to avoid 'transmitting our emotions'. As a matter of fact, this usually takes years of training to get 'right', so watermonkey is one of those rare people who's a 'natural'. My teachers would have really liked to meet him.

It'd take an awful lot for me to get that ability back, but having done it, I could do it again I'm pretty sure. I've had other strange things happen too, out of the blue and I don't know if it was my mind playing tricks on me or what. Example: In Jr. High (about 8th or 9th grade) I had left the class room to donate to the urinal and when I walked in the class room I heard a voice call out to me as clear as a bell. It startled me so much I immediately froze and looked at the person whose voice I clearly heard but there was no response from that person or anyone else in the room at all. I went crimson and struggled to regain my composure as I finished the trek to my desk, completely in shock and wondering what to make of it all. Was it my imagination? Was I hearing voices in my head? Was I going crazy? I've never had that level of loud, clear, almost punishing and forceful voice invade my head since and to this day I don't know what to make of it. There are moments in one's life, extraordinary moments that define the path and beckon us toward greatness. I think the extraordinary things that happen to highlight our being happen to remind us of where we've been before life and what awaits in the after-life. The energy or spirit that animates us in this experience and existence can neither be created nor destroyed. It can be adjusted. It can be manipulated and molded, but neither can the essence of creation be destroyed nor created. It is this essence that fills the void without which "God" could not exist that fills our spirits and the spirit and "God" are mutually inclusive; without one there can not be the other. That's why I more than "lean" toward reincarnation. It's almost like the physical world in which we live is only a thin veil and occasionally we notice the veil has a small tear or something not quite right about it that causes us to pause and question it all. Our perceptions of the universe have enormous potential but we're constantly being told through the church, media, family -you name it, we're not to look there. Extra Sensory Perception is "of the Devil" or "witchcraft" and so society at large stays away. The "Master Slaves" of our little ball of mud don't stray away from such things though...

 

To cite an everyday example, sometimes if you're walking on the street you might find that you 'sense' someone looking at the back of your head and turn around - this is just such an example of you 'feeling' emotional/psychic emanations projected by someone else.

Is that the same thing animals sense when they sense "fear"? Is it why my hair stands up on end when I hear the wicked shriek of a wild cat at night?

________________________________

As for an actual obe - well, the skeptics here might call it imagination, and I won't disagree, but I'll share my experience.

 

I often sit in meditation - this is not a meditation with any purpose in mind, it's just sitting with an empty mind. Indeed, in the east we believe that to sit in meditation with a purpose in mind is to defeat that very purpose.

 

Anyway, one day recently when I was sitting in meditation in this way, I seemed to separate from my body and float upwards. This was not at all controlled by me, and when I left my body I seemed to be made up of white light, without any real physical shape. And thoughts came to me, but time seemed to have slowed, so that even the thoughts were in slow motion. And I was sitting indoors in meditation, and when I left my body I floated straight up, through the roof, and continued to rise beyond the atmosphere, beyond the universe (which didn't appear to be 'vast' at all, but more like a shell) and then I approached and merged with a great light, and I sensed billions of entities within that light, yet they were all actually part of the whole, not separate, as I was not separate. And while I didn't lose my individuality, it receded in importance. And I was conscious of great happiness, fulfillment, a sense of coming home - no words can express the feeling, it was beyond words. And I spent a long, long time there - or rather, I spent a timeless period there; again 'there' 'time' was not what it seems here - but after an indeterminate period which nevertheless 'seemed' long, I knew that I had to return, that there were reasons for it (unrevealed) and I left the light and journeyed back to my body and opened my eyes.

 

Imagination? It's possible, indeed. Yet since this experience, the materialistic norms that most people go by have little hold on me. It's as if I was given a great gift, greater than any this world could offer, and it suffices.

God, from the perspective of the unencumbered, may well appear as you've described. A gift of sight is a great gift indeed.

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Now I'm kinda gun-shy if you know what I mean... I lost a lot of work and I hate when that happens. I just haven't been posting the same since.

Heh, I know exactly what you mean. It was pretty nasty for me too, cause I put up a lot of posts and then my net connection cut out for a few days, and when it came back I found that all the posts I'd made earlier had vanished, arrgghhh (the electricity and the power often go down where I live, firstly because it's very rough country and subject to violent storms, but also because things like the net and electricity have reached this region only recently, hehe. Actually, if it didn't cut out my 'window on the world' I wouldn't mind it. Anyway, there are compensations, like leading a totally stress-free life, having great teachers to help you grow mentally, physically, spiritually - I really can't complain).

It'd take an awful lot for me to get that ability back, but having done it, I could do it again I'm pretty sure. I've had other strange things happen too, out of the blue and I don't know if it was my mind playing tricks on me or what. Example: In Jr. High (about 8th or 9th grade) I had left the class room to donate to the urinal and when I walked in the class room I heard a voice call out to me as clear as a bell. It startled me.... .......I've never had that level of loud, clear, almost punishing and forceful voice invade my head since and to this day I don't know what to make of it.

I think you could get that ability (to be 'invisible') back indeed, especially as you already have a 'feel' for it, if you know what I mean. It would be as easy as anything if you had someone else who could also do it to work with, or a good teacher - unfortunately, I doubt such things are easily available in the west.

As for your experience with the voice, it's fascinating. Really fascinating. What did the voice say - did it just call out your name, or did it say something, and was that something even english? I'm really curious.

I've had one or two experiences of the sort. In one, I was sleeping, and dreaming, and in my dream I was looking down at my body lying on the bed, and I also noticed that there was someone standing at the foot of my bed looking down at me. And I sort of floated down to my body, and as I 'merged' with my body, I opened my eyes (I really woke up), and there was really someone standing at the foot of my bed. And I sat up (I was wide awake now) and there was some moonlight streaming into the room, so I took a better look at the person (in such a situation I'm usually curious, not afraid). And it was a young woman, and she was very, very pale, and her eyes were gray, and she had a gray cloak on that covered her completely - a sort of hood was on her head, and only her face showed, and she had SUCH a sad expression on her face. And she didn't say anything, and I didn't speak either - we just looked at each other for a few minutes, and then she started to fade away - to vanish gradually. Suddenly I could see the outlines of the cupboard behind her through her, and she became less and less distinct, and finally disappeared. And I got up and put on the light and looked around. I wasn't afraid, but I also sensed (as I looked at her) that there was no reason to be afraid, that she meant me no harm. Anyway, that was one experience, it may have been a dream that somehow 'carried over' into the waking world, it may have been some shadow from another time and place, it may have been some entity, opinions are bound to differ. All I can say for a fact is that I was fully awake when I sat up in bed and looked at her, is all.

There are moments in one's life, extraordinary moments that define the path and beckon us toward greatness. I think the extraordinary things that happen to highlight our being happen to remind us of where we've been before life and what awaits in the after-life. The energy or spirit that animates us in this experience and existence can neither be created nor destroyed. It can be adjusted. It can be manipulated and molded, but neither can the essence of creation be destroyed nor created. It is this essence that fills the void without which "God" could not exist that fills our spirits and the spirit and "God" are mutually inclusive; without one there can not be the other. That's why I more than "lean" toward reincarnation. It's almost like the physical world in which we live is only a thin veil and occasionally we notice the veil has a small tear or something not quite right about it that causes us to pause and question it all. Our perceptions of the universe have enormous potential but we're constantly being told through the church, media, family -you name it, we're not to look there. Extra Sensory Perception is "of the Devil" or "witchcraft" and so society at large stays away. The "Master Slaves" of our little ball of mud don't stray away from such things though..

Some VERY profound thoughts here, watermonkey. You mention that church, media, family tell us we're not to question things. I could add science. I find human science limited, in it's way. It questions, it studies, yet to me it's questions and it's studies seem to follow limited paths - and our science rarely, if ever strays beyond those paths.

Perhaps after thousands of years our science might evolve to throw aside pre-set limitations and explore the cosmos not with human eyes, but with eyes not bound by human limitations. And then maybe, just maybe, true reality will be revealed.

I have one more experience to tell about - it was pretty close to time-travel, but I think I've held the floor long enough, so I'll let a few other's have their say and then add it in.

God, from the perspective of the unencumbered, may well appear as you've described. A gift of sight is a great gift indeed.

I've had some wonderful and very wise and very patient teachers, is all watermonkey. (considering I was always questioning them about EVERYTHING they were VERY patient indeed, believe me,
Edited February 18, 2007 by Yratorm, LightMage (see edit history)

[Watermonkey 0]

I was startled and shaken to the core not only for the voice which was clearly projected in to my head without physical sound, but the message as well. A girl, whom I had no feelings for and didn't really even like, said, in the clearest most penetrating almost painfully forceful voice I've ever "heard", "*my name*, I love you!" Naturally I was completely shocked and, when I heard the message, (it was still her voice as though she'd said this in the loudest non-yelling theater voice she could conjure right in front of the entire class room full of peers and the teacher was there too) my reaction would've been accompanied by the a giant sucking sound of every person in the class drawing in their breath at once. There was not only no reaction from anyone in the class, but I looked right at her and she had her head down writing something and didn't look up. That was 8th or 9th grade and I graduated with her and even saw her at my ten year reunion and there has never been any hint she actually ever felt this way toward me, but I won't deny what I experienced. I've never asked her either, for fear of looking like a fool, and what would compel her to tell me the truth anyway? It would've been pointless. It's just one of those experiences to chalk up in the "unexplained" category and go on looking for other paranormal experiences to explore.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Watermonkey (see edit history)

[FLaKes 0]

... Too bad those last post were gone, I really find them interesting. I myself have been trying some methods to achieve a lucid dream, well actually I have had them, but I would like to control them, but then I feel like I am having an OBE and I kind of wake myself up before it because it kind of makes me scared. I feel like I am traveling really fast and falling so I end up waking myself up. It feels really wierd because in those moments I am conscious and I am thinking but its really hard to get my body to wake up. It wont respond kind of like if it were asleep.