Are Vegetarians Smarter? Post Your Opinion....

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Vbritton, you didn't have to point that out, I got the idea of what Kubi was saying

 

 

Actually, since we got attacking each other on the thread (unlike our early posts), it occurred to me that the logical thing for me to do would be to just go back and read through the thread again. And I've just done that, and I noticed how absolutely polite and friendly you were answering my posts, right from the beginning - and I must admit I'm quite ashamed for attacking you in any way (including my latest posts). I'll cease at once.

 

I must admit that I was actually very happy that you'd come to the forum while I read the earlier parts of your thread (and when I saw your list of interests many of which actually correspond to mine, incidentally).

 

So I sincerely (and publicly) apologize. I know that the things that have been said can't be unsaid, but I ask you to be gracious and forgiving. I agree, the personal remarks and some particularly irritating things I said were not at all called for. Please let's forget the last few posts (if you can), because if you'd like to know my real opinion of you, I think you're a very intelligent person, and I think you have a LOT to contribute here - I would love to see posts on ALL of your interests.

 

I'm sorry that we have to disagree on this topic of vegetarianism, but it's just that living among people with such life-spans and youth has made ME quite a fanatic for their way of life, I think, especially when they took something like ten years off my age, for which I can only be grateful.

But I won't say any more on the subject. To be honest, I would rather cede this subject to you, and see you post on all your interests on the forum than continue my stupid attacks on a person I consider brilliantly intelligent and whom I really like.

 

I don't know how I got to attacking you, but it's something that I didn't really want, and sincerely regret. It's also something that reading your wonderful, polite posts earlier in the thread has made me very ashamed of. There will be no more attacks from me.

[Misanthrope 0]

I don't know how I got to attacking you, but it's something that I didn't really want, and sincerely regret. It's also something that reading your wonderful, polite posts earlier in the thread has made me very ashamed of.

 

Wow. KuBi mentioned you can tell a lot about a person by the way he posts, and what you've just done in front of the whole wide world demonstrates your excellent quality. That took a lot of courage, and I thank you for your kind sentiments.

 

As for me, I'm far from perfect. In fact, many of the posters on this thread have the intellectual edge on me (and they're not veggy heads). But I've never been one to hold a grudge of any sort, especially something so insignificant in the grand scheme of things. So yes, I'm cool with forgetting "things" said and moving forward. I have a very short memory anyway.

 

I'm sorry that we have to disagree on this topic of vegetarianism, but it's just that living among people with such life-spans and youth has made ME quite a fanatic for their way of life, I think, especially when they took something like ten years off my age, for which I can only be grateful.

Don't be sorry. If we all agreed on everything it would make for a very boring forum. I think a topic detailing the mountain dwellers secrets of youth would be quite.......fascinating.

 

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Some Reflections on This Thread:

 

I was thinking of other ways I might have titled this thread in a way less threatening to some readers. "High IQ Linked to Vegetarianisim: Post your comments," came to mind. But then I started searching other forums on other sites that dared to tackle this topic, I found the responses from posters were quite similar to those on this thread. In other words, they were still threatened despite the unprovoking nature of the title. The mere word, "vegetarian" was enough to get them going:

http://www.aol.com//

 

So, I've come to the conclusion it doesn?t matter how this topic is presented to the general public. Many will react defensively regardless.

 

I asked my meat-eating sister about this phenomenon, to get a better handle on the psychology of it. She said it bothers her when I mention vegetarianism because she doesn?t like to think too hard about meat, or where it comes from. It makes her feel guilty.

 

This struck a chord with me. In most of civilized society, people buy their meat from the grocery store. The carcass is injected with red dye to hide the decay, it is neatly packaged in saran wrap, and my sister never has to think about how it went from being a living, breathing animal to a slab of flesh on her plate. She never has to think about the tortured existence that cow, pig, goat or chicken endured on a factory farm before suffering a horrible death. She never asks herself, do I really need to keep doing this? No, she never thinks about these things until I mention vegetarianism ? and she?d rather I not.

Edited January 24, 2007 by vbritton (see edit history)

[Unregistered 012 0]

I dont think it really matters if you eat meat or eat vegetables etc. Why would that depend on how smart you are? but its possible i guess.

[Watermonkey 0]

I asked my meat-eating sister about this phenomenon, to get a better handle on the psychology of it. She said it bothers her when I mention vegetarianism because she doesnt like to think too hard about meat, or where it comes from. It makes her feel guilty.

 

This struck a chord with me. In most of civilized society, people buy their meat from the grocery store. The carcass is injected with red dye to hide the decay, it is neatly packaged in saran wrap, and my sister never has to think about how it went from being a living, breathing animal to a slab of flesh on her plate. She never has to think about the tortured existence that cow, pig, goat or chicken endured on a factory farm before suffering a horrible death. She never asks herself, do I really need to keep doing this? No, she never thinks about these things until I mention vegetarianism and shed rather I not.

 

I remember talking to my sister about something similar and she told me she'd rather not have to think about how the meat in the grocery store got to be there. Many (most?) people intentionally pull blinds over their eyes to keep them from seeing the real world because the real world is so full of pain, suffering, and misery. It's this activity that perpetuates that condition. Politicians take advantage of this blissful ignorance by enacting more and more Orwellian laws and one of these days, a critical mass of people are going to wake up and find there's chains around their ankles and wrists and wonder how they got there. Many people will admit to you, when pressed, they "really don't want to know" what's really going on in the world, they're just trying to stay happy wearing their rose-colored glasses watching their little worlds go by in a haze.

[Misanthrope 0]

Many people will admit to you, when pressed, they "really don't want to know" what's really going on in the world, they're just trying to stay happy wearing their rose-colored glasses watching their little worlds go by in a haze.

Watermonkey, I see Im not the only one on this forum to have noticed the rose-colored glasses phenomenon that seems so prevalent in society today. It almost appears a sort of survival mechanism some people use to avoid falling into depression and despair. These may be the same folks whod rather pop happy pills than face reality. That is, life is not a bowl of cherries and sometimes you have to face whats ugly in life to appreciate whats beautiful.

a critical mass of people are going to wake up and find there's chains around their ankles and wrists and wonder how they got there.

Yeah, reminds me of allegory of the frog brought to a slow boil in a pot of water. By the time he realizes hes being boiled alive its too late. And that kind of reminds me of a book I just finished, titled, French Women for All Seasons by Mirelille Guiliano, which is a sequel to her popular, French Women Dont Get Fat.
The French generally have a more intimate relationship with their food than Americans, and a healthier one in my opinion. The author, being French, has a decidedly French attitude toward food (go figure) accept where meat is concerned! Here, she retells a story of a childhood memory involving frogs. Apparently, a family acquaintance would deliver frog legs every Sunday, which her mother would then sauté for dinner. Somehow, her father always managed to avoid giving in to her childhood curiosity, and never explained how the frog legs came to be severed from the frog, or what happened to the slimy little guys afterwards. To this day, she is happily ignorant of the process, and has no desire to delve any deeper. As long as someone else is responsible for murdering the frogs, all is well, and she can continue to devour them relatively guilt-free.

Not to say I dont immensely enjoy and respect this authors work. I think shes using basic common sense to remind us of what weve lost in our relationship with food. For many of us, eating has become nothing more than a chore to get over with it so we can move on to the next task. Nothing exemplafies this more than the hurried commuter driving to work with a cell phone in one hand and a hamburger in the other. The author is to be commended for teaching us how to put the ritual and joy back in our meal-time habits. I only wish shed take off those rose-colored glasses and take a real look at where her meat comes from.

If I were to point out one thing Ive noticed in Vegetarians, its their willingness to confront the harsh realities and seek out wiser alternatives. If one suspects theres something amiss in ones food supply, shouldnt these issues be explored further? Perhaps its this ability to face the sometimes uncomfortable reality that leads to heightened awareness and intelligence.

[Kubi 0]

I may be going to far here, but oh well. I'll say it anyways. We concern ourselfs with how animals are treated, saying it's absolutely disquisting and what not. PETA is one big contributer to this. What makes the way we treat animals, any better then the way we treat our enemies? We're over in Iraq, HUNTING DOWN the talliban, and those guys. I don't read up on the war to much, I don't like it. If we acted like the super power we want people to think we are, we'd go over there, and in a week, exterminate an entire colony with little casualties on our side. Yet, we've been there for YEARS, slowly killing off our own troops. What makes the mindless slaughter of our own men, and other 3rd world countries different from animals?Well, there's one big difference I suppose, we're supposed to eat animals...Hopefully we're not eating them..*yuck*.It seems I'm going to be one of the first to take a stand here and say it;We're HUMAN. We're meant to eat meat. I will not stop eating meat. If you believe in a god, and a god who put this entire world together in 7 days, then you should have no problem eating from the lords bounty. Animals are there for a reason. To be eating. Not to sit there, live there lives, die, and rot in the ground.

[jlhaslip 4]

We're HUMAN. We're meant to eat meat.

As in "we are CAPABLE of eating meat" ??? Humans are omniverous (sp?) We'll eat anything.

... If you believe in a god ... then you should have no problem eating from the lords bounty.

How did this become God's fault? Fruits, beans and vegetarian foodstuffs are also the "Lord's bounty".

Animals are there for a reason. To be eating. Not to sit there, live there lives, die, and rot in the ground.

And Humankind's purpose is to fill the role of being responsible for maintaining order in the food chain? Animals fit into the Planetary Ecology in many ways, some create waste which are food stuff for others, some are food stuff for others to create waste. Round and round the cycle goes until Humankind throws the system off-balance. Because Mankind is at the top of the Foodchain doesn't mean we should control it or alter it to the point where the production of our food is adversely affecting the Regions of the world that produce it. ( Toxic waste ie: fertilizers)

The Agricultural Revolution began a long time ago and lead to Man leading a stationary lifestyle, (meaning non-nomadic), which eventually leads into the Industrial Revolution and onwards to where we are today. Global pollution, Global Warming , Global Inequalities in Lifestyles creating adversarial positions between cultures and sub-groups. (war and Conflicts)

I am not vegetarian, and I'm sure not in the group of smartest people on the Planet, but I watch what I eat for several reasons, Health being one, and I also buy local product where ever possible. The amount of fuel and energy spent on shipping Beef around the world is insane. New Zealand Beef purchased locally for less than the Local Beef? How do they do that? It can't be good business practice to allow massive amunts of fuel to be consumed that way, and it surely can't be good for the health of the Planet.

Even I am smart enugh to notice that.

[Kubi 0]

Never said it was gods fault? Did I? Humans are capable of eating meat, yes. It seems to be an important part of our diet...I'm not saying eat till you can't eat any more, till you're 500 pounds over weight and moving around by a forklift. That's just disquising. You can eat healthy, while eating meat. You can eat VERY healthy while eating meat, along with vegetables.Me, personally, I noticed no difference between meat make locally, and meat harvested from some, luxurious farm, thousands of miles away....Meat is meat.

[Misanthrope 0]

I may be going to far here, but oh well. I'll say it anyways.What makes the mindless slaughter of our own men, and other 3rd world countries different from animals?

I dont think youve gone too far at all, but I'm afraid we must respectfully agree to disagree. The argument comparing mans treatment of fellow men as opposed to animal is a very common one to justify the continued slaughter of innocent creatures. Following this line of reasoning, however, can lead one to irrational conclusions.
Yes, mans inhumanity to man is as old as time, and goes without question. But should we stop caring about animals because governments carry out atrocities against other nations, and in many instances, their own people? Should we become callous toward the plight of animals tortured in factory farms because our government is killing off our own troops in Iraq? Why should caring for the plight of humans preclude our concern for other animals we share this planet with or vice versa? Some would argue that man will not find peace until the slaughter of innoncents stops:

For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. PythagorasWhile we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?" George Bernard Shaw

Well, there's one big difference I suppose, we're supposed to eat animals...Hopefully we're not eating them..*yuck*.

Cannibalism is well documented in all cultures, and all ages. Perhaps were supposed to eat people.

We're HUMAN. We're meant to eat meat. I will not stop eating meat. If you believe in a god, and a god who put this entire world together in 7 days, then you should have no problem eating from the lords bounty.

Per my previous argument, the fact that humans have practiced cannibalism doesnt justify continued practice of this horrible act. Nor does it justify eating other animals.
Why would believing in a god force me to eat meat? There are just as many quotes from the bible to support vegetarianism as otherwise. People pick and choose what they want from the bible to support their personal predisposition.

Animals are there for a reason. To be eating.

Who are we to judge why animals are here. They have their own purpose. They feel pain, they feel joy, they love the warm sun on their backs like we do. And...they SUFFER like we do. They are other nations, caught in the wheel of life like we are. The fact they may be weaker or dumber does not give us the right to harm them. Why are we here, for that matter? If one believes the biblical idea that man is the earths caretaker, then Id say were doing a pretty lousy job.

Not to sit there, live there lives, die, and rot in the ground

We all end up rotting in the ground eventually. Its how we get there thats important.

[jcreuter 0]

i dont believe that, alot of my teachers (mainly science and math) say im in the top 95 persentile of the school and i eat alot of meat and other non veggie foods.

[Misanthrope 0]

i dont believe that, alot of my teachers (mainly science and math) say im in the top 95 persentile of the school and i eat alot of meat and other non veggie foods.

I'm sure your teachers are absolutely right. I've looked at some of your posts, and you have a wide variety of interests for someone so young. I wish I were good at Science and Math, but that side of my brain doesn't seem to work very well. Just keep in mind, the results of the vegetarian study are only a generalization, and exceptions to the rule seem to be popping up all over the place - especially on this thread! Thanks for your input.

[Watermonkey 0]

I may be going to far here, but oh well. I'll say it anyways. We concern ourselfs with how animals are treated, saying it's absolutely disquisting and what not. PETA is one big contributer to this. What makes the way we treat animals, any better then the way we treat our enemies? We're over in Iraq, HUNTING DOWN the talliban, and those guys. I don't read up on the war to much, I don't like it. If we acted like the super power we want people to think we are, we'd go over there, and in a week, exterminate an entire colony with little casualties on our side. Yet, we've been there for YEARS, slowly killing off our own troops. What makes the mindless slaughter of our own men, and other 3rd world countries different from animals?

There's really not much we can do regarding the horrifying situation in the middle east that the west has seen fit to stir up. Animal cruelty, on the other hand, is something each of us can change through education, alteration, example, and proclamation.

Educate yourself by going to PETA's website and watching videos of just what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

Alter your own lifestyle to fit what you could see yourself do to the animals you eat. Are you a hunter? Would you be capable of shooting an elk or deer or whatever, dressing it out, slicing and dicing, packaging, and freezing it? I know I couldn't, but at least I can choose how the animals I eat are killed by buying products that are organic from small independent local farms that use sustainable farming methods and that allow their livestock to have free range through the course of their short lives. These are small steps we can all take that would end many abuses, disease, and other negative aspects to the industry. Factory farming methods are what caused Mad Cow disease to threaten us all.

Lead by example and others will follow.

Take every opportunity to spread the message that livestock and veggies are both far superior when grown using sustainable non-chemical methods and harvested with the least environmental impact possible. It's good for you and it's good for the future generations as well as the planet as a whole.

Well, there's one big difference I suppose, we're supposed to eat animals...Hopefully we're not eating them..*yuck*.

The jury's still out on that one. Our teeth contain remnants of meat-eating ways like incisors and canines but they also contain the tools necessary to process grains and veggies. It can be argued that just because we can doesn't mean we should. We've been endowed with large brains so we can make informed decisions concerning the animals we've been given custody over according to the bible. Perhaps our meat-eating equipment should be treated as though in a glass vial that has the words "Use only in case of emergency" printed on it. There's no nutrition in the omnivore's diet that can't be obtained in the strictly vegetarian's diet.

It seems I'm going to be one of the first to take a stand here and say it;
We're HUMAN. We're meant to eat meat. I will not stop eating meat. If you believe in a god, and a god who put this entire world together in 7 days, then you should have no problem eating from the lords bounty. Animals are there for a reason. To be eating. Not to sit there, live there lives, die, and rot in the ground.

By that logic, I'd say that humans, too, are there to be eaten. There are simply too many of them who sit there, live their lives, die and rot in the ground. What a waste! They should all be corralled and sent through the chute. We could call the product Soylent Green and some corporation like Monsanto could market it to us as a necessary supplement while being vague about the ingredients. Hmmmmm.... I could swear someone already did that in a movie somewhere...
Edited February 27, 2007 by Watermonkey (see edit history)

[Misanthrope 0]

Are you a hunter? Would you be capable of shooting an elk or deer or whatever, dressing it out, slicing and dicing, packaging, and freezing it? I know I couldn't, but at least I can choose how the animals I eat are killed by buying products that are organic from small independent local farms that use sustainable farming methods and that allow their livestock to have free range through the course of their short lives.

Watermonkey - as per usual, your comments hit straight to the heart while retaining a certain eloquence I haven't seen for awhile, and I really appreciate your feedback on this provocative thread I started . I always contend that if more people had to go out and actually kill an animal with their own two hands, there would be a lot less meat-eating going on. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. But hey - if you have to eat it, at least know your source. Heck, even Safeway is carrying organic, grass fed Buffalo meat these days. Trader Joe's carries a wide variety of products from sources OTHER than factory farms.
Times...they are a changing. Let's hope for the better of all beings.

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

I think that we should let each one go their way.However, I do maintain that a vegetarian has a RIGHT to be one, without society having a bias towards them, as seems to be the case sometimes. Similarly, I see nothing wrong in someone eating meat if it keeps them healthy (it keeps me healthy). Let each one work out what way works best for them, and follow that way. Simple, isn't it? And the result of allowing each person their personal freedom is peace.

[Misanthrope 0]

How convenient to speak of freedom before those whose very freedom we would deny for a taste of their flesh. The "do as thou wilt," flower power mantra of the 60's certainly sounds good on paper. But then reality sets in, and as those rose-colored glasses slowly stain with the blood of innocents, the blind man becomes more blind than he was before he put them on.

Until he extends his circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. -Albert Schweitzer

Even "do as thou wilt" was prefaced with, "and it harm none."