Are Vegetarians Smarter? Post Your Opinion....

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

This was simply the way for humans to deal with each other.. in peace.

I think that we should let each one go their way.

 

However, I do maintain that a vegetarian has a RIGHT to be one, without society having a bias towards them, as seems to be the case sometimes.

 

Similarly, I see nothing wrong in someone eating meat if it keeps them healthy (it keeps me healthy). Let each one work out what way works best for them, and follow that way. Simple, isn't it? And the result of allowing each person their personal freedom is peace.

You coldly reject it - Do you then prefer to make war on humans (even verbally) to satisfy your dreams of peace with other species?

 

In that case, you should hardly complain when those humans whose habits you look down upon (because their habits are different) in turn attack you. No, I am not going to attack you here. But you have complained about the attacks of 'meat-eaters' - I merely hint to you why you get that bad a reaction.

 

As for your quote

Until he extends his circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. -Albert Schweitzer

May I point out that even Albert Schweitzer was only a man, and a quotation by any human is not necessarily a perfect pointer of the way one must walk, of the path to wisdom?

 

And if you must have a quotation, how about this quotation then, so much simpler and more direct than Schweitzer's:

Judge not and thou shalt not be judged.

It can apply as much as any quotation by Schweitzer, I think. Or do you not see where it applies? I say this not to attack you, but merely as a hint of other wisdoms.

[Kubi 0]

Lightmage - you are straying from the topic at hand. It's "Are Vegetarians Smarter", not "Am I completely rejecting your ideas and replying with quotes from other people". I'd prefer if this thread doesn't stray away again. I've already asked once, I won't say it again.

 

So, are vegetarians smarter? We've obviously got a lot of views here, but really, it's all mixed up.

We should be concerning ourselfs with "Am I a smarter human being for eating a vegan diet?" Not, "Is someone else less intellegent because they eat meat?" Which is where I still believe the contriversy is raised. EVERYONE wants to speak for the other person. And in the unusual case, someone speaks on behalf of themselves.

 

My theory in this is: Speak what you know, not what you think you know. Because someone of the opposite spectrum will know what you don't.

[Misanthrope 0]

Thanks for intervening with your ethical style of moderating, KuBi. I was starting to fear this thread had been permanently poisoned by all the petty attacks and such. Hopefully, this will be the last time you have to state the obvious.

But anyway, back to the topic at hand: I read recently that Australias Mensa society has more than its fair share of vegetarians among its ranks. I wish they would have would have given specific percentiles, as I always feel a lot better with concrete stastictics. But suffice it to say, Australias Mensa group is putting a lot of stock in the British University of South Hampton study cited at the start of this thread. For those unfamiliar with the term, Mensa is an international high-IQ group. To qualify for membership, you must score within the top 2% of an intelligence test (must be standardized, and you must be monitored during the test).

Australian Mensa CEO (also vegetarian) had these words to say about the British study:

It's only logical that smart people are more likely to spurn meat. Smart people consider all aspects of their life very, very carefully. People who think about the ethics of killing animals will naturally choose vegetarianism, and variations of that, more often.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I might site as an example that our own brilliant OpaQue is vegetarian which I just discovered from a similar thread someone started on this topic elsewhere. Think I might have to wander on over there and post a thought or two.

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

I think that to say that vegetarians are smarter is a massive generalization. And generalizations are dangerous. I have already pointed out early in the thread that in india, where a massive percentage of people are vegetarian, most people are no smarter and less intelligent than people anywhere else in the world. And that's 1 billion people there, as examples that whether one is vegetarian or not is largely irrelevant to the level of one's intelligence.Basically in experiments one must look for the 'control factor'. That is, one needs to check the effects of vegetarianism on intelligence (or vice versa) over a vast spectrum of people from all walks of life, before making any statement on the subject. And I believe that india provides that. True, there are some brilliant people in india, but there are also a far larger section of 'ordinary' people, and another section of 'unintelligent' people. Just as it is everywhere on the planet.There ARE moral, ethical and spiritual reasons for being vegetarian, and if a person cited those reasons, I would have to agree. However, to suggest that vegetarians are smarter (or that smarter people choose to be vegetarian) is a fallacy in view of the first paragraph of this post, in which I cite an entire country of vegetarians as an example.I think that one's intelligence is based more on one's genetics and one's thirst for knowledge than on most 'lifestyle' choices.

[Misanthrope 0]

All slugs are slimy, that is, unless they've baked under the hot sun beyond the point of recognition. On my, did I just make a sweeping generalization? To infer a way of speaking is dangerous (in this case, "generalizing") is in and of itself a mammoth generalization, and one worthy of thought-nazi status. But does that make the statement dangerous - I think no. Only if one chooses to be intimidated by grand words backed up by no science, substance or verifiable proof (as opposed to the scientifically sound vegetarian study). The thoughts in the above post have been repeated ad nauseum on this thread and therefore, serve no justifiable purpose (can you say, spam?). The poster takes issue with the premise of the thread, and has made it known over, and over, and over again. That will not stop me from continuing to muse on the subject, and I pray it doesn't intimidate other free-thinking members from doing the same.Another idea I've puttered around with is the impact socioeconomic factors may have on the results of this scientific study. And I think someone else on this thread may have eluded to the fact veg-heads tend to be higher on the general income bracket. So what came first, the higher income (or ability to earn it), or the proclivity toward vegetarianism? Now I'm confusing myself, as a good portion of veg-heads actually gravitate toward a minimalist, almost luddite philosophy -in essence shunning money, material goods and the associated "evils" of modern industrialization (factory farming, of course, taking high ranking on that evil pyramid).

Edited March 23, 2007 by Misanthrope (see edit history)

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Fascinating. I cannot make a statement on the higher-income-group study, as I am ignorant about that, but about the simplistic lifestyle misanthrope mentions, actually I myself tend to that sort of simple lifestyle. Basically what I feel is the less one 'demands' of the planet, the less damage one does.Essentially the problem seems to be that the planet has a massive population of humans, out of all proportion to other similar species, which basically is what gives rise to ruthless, brutal systems like 'factory-farming' - Basically industrialists are meeting the massive demand for food by the most efficient means, with no concern for ethics. Fortunately, human populations in most western countries are falling - however, governments usually react by importing people from some other country. Governments are so protective of massive industry, hmmm. I understand the financial concerns that cause them to protect industry at all costs, but sometimes wonder if a little more effort couldn't be put into searching for (and finding) a better way.Basically, I would say that a simpler lifestyle would be healthier all round - healthier for the planet, better for the environment, and FAR healthier for humans. Unfortunately, with the enormous concentration of humans in cities (and resulting demand for 'processed' foods, it seems far out of reach.

[Misanthrope 0]

A couple posts ago I mentioned what I had researched regarding Australian MENSA society's high percentage of vegetarians, but I can't find the stats anywhere. I'd like to know what the exact percentile actually is, and bet some of you would too. If anyone finds it somewhere, kindly post a follow up. Some links would be great too..

[Watermonkey 0]

I did a quick search on the subject matter at hand and found what I believe to be the crux of the argument:

Nutritionist Rosemary Stanton says a vegetarian diet can't enhance intelligence in itself, especially if people forgo the brain-building qualities of omega-3 fatty acids found in fish.
But like Kennett, she says people with high IQs are likely to be thinkers.

"And thinkers are probably going to realize the ethical and health related benefits of not eating meat,'' she says.

The whole article can be found here: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/nocookies I don't know if that's exactly what you were looking for...

Before getting all up in arms, I wish people would actually read. It states clearly that being a vegetarian doesn't make you smarter, is says that being smarter leads people more frequently to become vegetarians for ethical and health related reasons. Thinking people live their lives more carefully and are more likely to care for the environment and want to cause less pain and suffering to other creatures they share the planet with. So next time you've got a bead on your next year's supply of meat, make sure you're a good enough shot to kill the beast instantly, causing the least amount of pain possible. I'm serious when I say that. The unthinking person is more likely to go to the store and buy dyed, factory farmed, drugged up, tortured, unhealthy hamburger then go out with a hunting party once a year and actually work for it. There are many people in between like myself who make more careful choices when purchasing meat. I've gone to buffalo burger at Safeway and I'm on the hunt for a source of wild game meat now too. I know of a couple sources, but they're quite a ways away. It'd be worth the drive, though. My favorite is Elk, but I bet Moose is tasty too...

[Misanthrope 0]

That's a good link, and I thank you. But for the most part it reiterates what's been mentioned before in this thread. We already know vegetarians are a smart lot, but apparently scientific findings which encompassed all of Brittania leave some of us wanting for more proof. Thus my interest in Australian MENSA. What I'm looking for are specifics regarding what percentage of Australian MENSA members are actually vegetarian (or any MENSA group, for that matter). "More than than their fair share" doesn't do anything for me. I want numbers. If any of you stumble upon something to this end please post a follow up...

[Forbez 0]

Meat is brian food. Without it you can not get smarter. Before early man ate meat, they ate plants. Then discovered meat and look what we have become. Money grabbing meat eating maniacs.

[Misanthrope 0]

Yeah, it seems like I've read something about the Omega 3's in fish helping out with brain function . But you can get similar, brain-feeding fatty acids from things like flax oil and avoid that whole, nasty fish experience. Further, the "Lancet Folate Study" shows folic acid boosts memory and overall brain function, especially in old farts who've lost some of their cognitive ability. You can get folic acid in foods like oranges, lentils, broccoli and greens. So you see, it's really not necessary to feed on dead critters over some perceived grey matter enhancement. Heck, if it were, the results of the British South Hampton study would have turned out opposite statistics.

Many of the worlds greatest thinkers have practiced vegetarianism, including Albert Einstein, Leonardo Da Vinci, and Benjamin Franklin. As for me, I feel humbled to share in a lifestyle the greatest minds known to man have deemed worthy.

Still looking for some stats on that Australian MENSA thing. Chime in if you find something on them - or any MENSA group for that matter...