Turkey In The Eu: Yes Or No? Debate on whether Turkeys entry petition in the EU should be acce

[johnsmith 0]

Turkey's entry in the EU has been postponed for the time being, and is said to be reconsidered in a few years time. As it is a matter that I consider of great importance, I would like to know what the opinion of most people here is on the subject.

 

There are many pros and cons to the issue.

 

Turkey is a large country of 72 million people and a demographical wonder for its size (with the media age being 28.1, see http://worldfacts.us/Turkey.htm). It is an economically developing country, and can contribute greatly to the European median age as well, provide a good solution for the ageing problem in Europe, and some even contest that it can also serve as an example of Christian- Muslim cooperation, that should help international relations worldwide. Not to mention that, as I said before, it WILL boost Europe's population by 72 million people.

 

On the other hand however, there are great, and justifiable fears and objections to such a case. First of all Turkey has a predominantly Muslim population, a fact which raises doubts about its ability to integrate in the EU; Muslim populations in Germany and other places are still showing problems of integration and adaptation to western legislation and norms (see https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183 for examples of Islamic populace- related problems). Plus Turkey has a tremendous deficit in human rights; throughout their conflict with the PKK an Kurdish insurgents, Turkish authorities have violated human rights many times, bombing, torturing, and killing with no discrimination (see https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/eca/turkey/turviolations.htm). Not to mention that the Turkish state still refuses to recognize grave violations of human rights such as the Armenian and Hellenic Genocide, and that Turkey STILL has troops in Northern Cyprus illegally.

 

Hoping to get some more opinions on the subject... what do you people think Europe should do?

[Hadi 0]

From when is Turkey considered as a part of Europe?Adding Turkey have negative effects more than positive ones. They have too many adults, so most of them are looking for a job. Europe can provide this source, so the Turkish people will take all the jobs in Europe and none will be left for Europe itself! Do you have a problem with Muslims?! They are human being just like any American, or European. First of all you said that having more Muslims in Europe, is a good thing because it will show the cooperation of Muslims and Christians, then you say it is a bad thing because Muslims are lower than something to be in Europe, they are not able to be integrated in Europe, but Christians can? Is that what you mean?Do you read what you write?I think Turkey will do anything to get integrated with Europe. So the illegal soldiers, and the Genocide of the Armenian, will be no problem for Turkey!

[johnsmith 0]

Friend,

I would really appreciate it if you read what I write more carefully, and avoided comments such as the ones you just posted.

I mentioned the pros and the cons; that is different opinions towards Turkey's entry. Some people consider that it is a good thing, some that it is bad; the same way, some people say that it would benefit Christian- Muslim relations, and others say that such a thing cannot happen because of recent experience of Muslim integration. Did you actually read the links???

Secondly I never said that Turkey is a part of Europe... I merely mentioned the fact that Turkeys entry is being seriously considered.

Thirdly, I have no problem with Muslims, and I really cannot grasp where exactly in my text you saw that.

Last but not least, the acceptance of the Genocide is STILL a BIG problem for Turkey. Do you know that they recently suspended their military ties with France because of genocide related legislation (see http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ for more details)???

I appreciate your added view on the subject (the one about Turkish adults adding to the problem of unemployment) but I would appreciate it even more if you actually read my post a few times before commenting back, especially in such a way.

Thanks.

[humanisfilth 0]

I used to smoke...loved it...and when I did I used to smoke Camel Lights. One day, while enjoying my afternoon puff, I young Armenian woman was suddenly on me like Oprah on a baked ham. "DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID TO MY PEOPLE??" 'Uhm, these cigarettes?' "NO! THE TURKS!!!" Needless to say, over the next 15 minutes, I got an unwanted history lesson designed to enlighten me as to the rich and turbulent history that is Turkey. I can tell you that young woman will never support Turkeys membership in the EU.

 

On the flip side, my wife and I used to be very close to a dear man who was a history college professor. He LOVED Turkey - the architecture, food, culture, people, EVERYTHING. He would go for a visit every single chance he had. He's recently deceased now (massive coronary on the way to teaching a class) but I did have the fortune to discuss this issue with him prior to his departure. I was surprised to find out that he too did not support their membership! Basically he thought it was too much too soon and they had some house cleaning to do first.

 

Personally, I think it's imperative that Turkey be given membership ASAP. It will go a LONG way towards reconciling the differences between our cultures and the present time and maybe help start the process of finding common grounds we can walk on. You're not going to get a much more balanced muslim point of view right now, from ANYWHERE, so I'm willing to overlook some rather nasty past history so perhaps we can have a bright future we can all look to.

 

Those are my 2 cents.

[Yacoby 0]

I don't really mind if Turkey is given EU membership, however I think it could be highly beneficial to western relations with other Muslim countries, as I don't think we are viewed in a very good light at present. That being said, they are probably quite a lot of downsides as well, and I am not too keen on their human rights record, although hopefully they will end up sorting it out soon.

[Hadi 0]

First of all Turkey has a predominantly Muslim population, a fact which raises doubts about its ability to integrate in the EU

If this Sentance is not your opinion than why did you post it? Just answer this simple question, why is there a ''doubt''. I didn't get the point here.

Thirdly, I have no problem with Muslims, and I really cannot grasp where exactly in my text you saw that.

Bro, I really said nothing bad accusing you that you hate muslims. I would never do that. It is not a crime disliking muslims. And why do I care?You can like and deslike who ever you want. I just wanted to ask why is there a ''doubt'', because I thought that it was you who said it (I never saw the links!) Just that and it also not a crime. I am asking with the spirit of friendship and knowledge this question, but not that I am mad to who said this. I rarely get mad. Everyone has feelings, so why angry, and is there something in life that worht it to get mad?!

[sweet_princess 0]

Why should Turkey not be allowed in the European Union?I'll tell you why. Beacuse the majority are Muslims, like me.They obviously still have hate towards the "unruthful" acts that osama etc have done to their poor place. They should know that all Muslims are not to blame and those who are indulgent in terrorism, they definately are futher away from Islam.

[Saint_Michael 3]

Again religion has nothing to do with Turkey entering the European Union. The reason Turkey won't be allowed is the fact that Europe has no border crossings meaning people can go as they please without being carded. Now with that little fact terrorists could walk around Europe without being thought of. Although they are doing that as we speak but those who look to obvious are being watched supposably.Of course their is economic reasons as well. I believe the Turkish currency is practically worthless everywhere else, in the exchange rate.also I believe they have an unstable job market, then of course their is the treatment of women, and turkey's barbaric laws as well. But Yacoby is right the Turkish citizens have no rights and think what would happen to tourists that break laws.So religion has nothing to do with this, people who think that are ignorant and those who say it is are ignorant as well.Now john your referring to the 1.5 million people that where killed now mind you that will be a back and forth argument till someone admits it either happen or their is no actual proof of it. So I don't think that will be a factor when the time comes again.

[FLaKes 0]

I think they should be allowed in the European Union, because it will definitely strengthen both sides, but it all depends on the people of the union and not external people like me. Whatever they did is in the past and they cannont change the past. By the way, the world facts page is really interesting, you can find anything about every country there.

[johnsmith 0]

If this Sentance is not your opinion than why did you post it? Just answer this simple question, why is there a ''doubt''. I didn't get the point here.

Um... ok. Read carefully. I said that the FACT that Turkey is predominantly MUSLIM can raise DOUBTS about its ability to integrate into a predominantly CHRISTIAN Europe. I think that you can pretty much tell why, examining the differences of each religion and how they have worked out so far.

You can like and deslike who ever you want. I just wanted to ask why is there a ''doubt'', because I thought that it was you who said it (I never saw the links!) Just that and it also not a crime. I am asking with the spirit of friendship and knowledge this question, but not that I am mad to who said this.

lol ok man. No offense taken .

Again religion has nothing to do with Turkey entering the European Union.

So, you think that the different religion does not pose any integration problems? Many would disagree with you... mainly German and British people... did you see the first link I posted? https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183

Now john your referring to the 1.5 million people that where killed now mind you that will be a back and forth argument till someone admits it either happen or their is no actual proof of it. So I don't think that will be a factor when the time comes again.

Firstly there is actual proof of it, I would suggest reading any expert book on the Armenian Genocide to see that there is abundance of evidence that the genocide took place, a very good one would be Peter Balakian's The Burning Tigris: The Armenian Genocide and America's Response (for info, http://www.amazon.com/Burning-Tigris-Armen/dp/0060198400). Do read either this, or other books. You'll see that the whole counter-argument thing comes mostly from Turkish think tanks that promote genocide denial in cooperation with the Turkish governments or governments who hate Armenia for their own reasons, such as Azerbaidjan (but we're evading the point here).

Secondly, if you think that the genocide won't be a problem to Turkey's entry, I'd suggest you checked out this article, about how Franco-Turkish military relations froze over a matter of genocide-related legislation (http://www.css.ethz.ch/en/services.html). Contrary to what you believe, it is a grave human rights issue that tells a lot about Turkeys stance towards human rights in general.

Whatever they did is in the past and they cannont change the past.

Truthful words indeed mr. Flakes, but at least they can admit to it. After all, it was a different government that did the killings. But why wont they?

You dont see Germany denying the Holocaust. You dont see Great Britain censoring magazines like BBC History when posting articles about killings in former British colonies. Why accept this attitude from Turkey?

[esasforum 0]

From when is Turkey considered as a part of Europe?Adding Turkey have negative effects more than positive ones.!!!

[Erdemir 0]

I am from Turkey and we Turks don't want to join the EU? By the way Turkey is not correct writing style for along time. Right one is TURKIYE. And Turkiye has no need to join the EU even Turkiye have unemployed people. Turkiye is the succesor of Ottomans or will be.Our presidents try to join the EU. But they will realize the truth that joining the EU will not be usefull for Turkiye.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Erdemir (see edit history)

[Janissary 0]

Greetings from Turkiye,

My opinion is EU politicians acting unfair to Turkey. They are hypocrite in my eyes. That's why as a Turk, I dont want to part of EU. Because of EU's attitude toward us, I believe joing EU means losing independence. When I was younger, this whole EU progress makes me excited but now Im just feeling disappointment. It's just a happy dream, Europeans will accept us as brothers & sisters.

---Anyway, these are just my thoughts and feelings---

 

 

 

Sorry if it's off topic but... I cant resist

 

About Kurds:

1st of all, I dont know what you see from there but there isnt a big problem among people. That's mostly politics. And about PKK... It's a terrorist organization that killed many civilians (Kurds-Turks-tourists-teachers-doctors-workers-kids etc).

 

and about so called Armenian genocide:

Turks accept many Armenians died, just like many Turks died. We can provide many documents (even foreign ones) that Ottoman goverment took measures to prevent deaths from both sides!

 

Abstract

Recognizes the Armenian revolutionary acts during world war I;

 

- The acts of Hincak and Dashnak party,

- Local support to Russian troops against Ottoman military,

- Local mutinies in big cities such as Van and Erzurum,

- Provocation on Armenian society in order to get support for local guerilla forces,

- Attacks on Ottoman reinforcement,

- Massacres of Muslim society,

 

Deploring the fact that curtain amount of Armenian population had to leave their homeland as a result of Ottoman relocation order,

 

- Armenians left their own properties,

- Future generations of Armenian nation was affected,

- The situation cause the division of the Armenian society,

- The situation caused mental damage on whole Armenian nation,

 

 

Recognizes the casualties of Armenian migrants during relocation as a fact,

 

- starvation and disease were one of the factors of causalities,

- the casualties were also got bigger by local civilian attack on Armenian migrant convoys,

 

 

Recognizes “the revenge” killings of Armenians on Muslim society after the relocation in South Eastern region such as Adana, Maras, Antep and Urfa,

 

- Those attacks were supported by Allied powers and cause serious damage on local society,

 

 

Recognizes the effort of Ottoman government to stop Armenian causalities and to support Armenians during relocation,

 

- Protection of The Armenian Convoys and The Punishments of Those Whom Attack The Convoys.

- Investigation of the people who disturbed Armenians during relocation

- Security of the Relocated Armenians,

- Determining The Debts of Relocated Armenians and Protection of Their Properties,

- Feeding of Armenian Families,

- Assistance for The Returning Armenians and Meeting Their Needs.

- The Exemption of Armenians from Taxes.

- The Courts of The People Who Committed Crimes During Relocation.

source

 

 

about Cyrups:

Turks living in the island are gratefull that Turkish army joined the conflict. Becasue local Turks believe if it werent the army, there would be no Turks left on the island.

 

----

By the way, you see. Even in a simple thread "Turkey should join EU or not" I had to defence myself from exaggerated accusitaitons. Therefore, I dont want to join EU, unless EU is ready to accept me as brother rather than barbaric Turk.

 

One last thing. Turkey is an European country. Why not? We compete in Eurovision, we compete in european league when it comes to WorldCup (football), our local teams compete in European cups. Whenever a classification made, Turkey put under the Europe collum. Becasue we are not Asian anymore!

 

***

This part is for Erdemir, I couldnt send him a PM so pardon me

 

Bence İngilizce'de Turkey denmesinin bir sakıncası yok. Sonu?ta eş anlamlı kelimeler olabilir. Tabii eğer bu durumu dalga malzemesi olarak kullanırlarsa ben de sert ?ıkarım ama ?oğu yabancı ?yle d?ş?nm?yor. Aynı bizim mısır ile Mısır'ın farkını bilmemiz gibi.

Bu arada bu yazıyı okursan konuya daha rahat hakim olursun:

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

Edited May 25, 2008 by Janissary (see edit history)

[Erdemir 0]

Thanks for your informative post, Janissary. I exactly agree with your ideas.

And I am happy that there is also someone doesn't want to join the EU.

And I read the article in your site and learnt about Turkey writing style.

Thanks...

Edited May 24, 2008 by Erdemir (see edit history)