What Is God? simple question, hard to answer

[truefusion 3]

Wicked isn't it?

Seems interesting. Good to keep in mind .
But what i got from your explanation is something gets predetermined, then the atoms go into action. How do things get predetermined? What creates this predetermination? These things can't predetermine themselves, can they? I know atoms have other, smaller atoms inside of them, but there has to be a limit, right?

[Dagoth Nereviar 0]

As Bill Bailey quotes on Part Troll (Or something similar) :"[some russian scientist] says that God is a human reflex.I feeling to create a shared being. Then again, I wouldn't trust what [Russian scientist's name] says, since he used to torment dogs for a living!"I feel this way too, that God is something we've made up, because we don't want to think that death is the end.

[Blacklaser 0]

But what i got from your explanation is something gets predetermined, then the atoms go into action. How do things get predetermined? What creates this predetermination? These things can't predetermine themselves, can they? I know atoms have other, smaller atoms inside of them, but there has to be a limit, right?

We won't know what predetermines them until we know what (and how it) caused the bigbang. Yes there seems to be a limit but we haven't found it yet, so far electrons (among with a very few others) are the only particles which scientists believe to be unsplitable.

I feel this way too, that God is something we've made up, because we don't want to think that death is the end.

That's what I think too.

[truefusion 3]

[...] because we don't want to think that death is the end.

Not everyone thinks like that. Some people try to - those that don't believe that there is a God - look for a way to make themselves live forever. What do they call it, "The search for the Fountain of Youth"?
So, thinking that we believe in a God cause we don't want an end is debatable.

But who'd want to live forever, in a world where wickedness is around the corner?

Question(s): how can people revive people by prayer? Or heal people by prayer?

[1]We won't know what predetermines them until we know what (and how it) caused the bigbang. [2]Yes there seems to be a limit but we haven't found it yet, so far electrons (among with a very few others) are the only particles which scientists believe to be unsplitable.

[1]First, there was nothing. Then, there was heat, then it became compressed to a point where it created a "Big Bang". We all know, we can't create something from nothing. And i think the chances of something like this happening by chance was 10 to the power of 120. Could have been more.[2]Who knows, maybe ten years from now, scientist might actually be able to split electrons, and whatnot. It'd be funny to find nothing inside them.
Edited June 17, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[Blacklaser 0]

[A] But who'd want to live forever, in a world where wickedness is around the corner?

 

Question(s): how can people revive people by prayer? Or heal people by prayer?

 

[C]Who knows, maybe ten years from now, scientist might actually be able to split electrons, and whatnot. It'd be funny to find nothing inside them.

 

[A] I agree, but then the survival instinct insead of us is very strong and I can understand how some poeple would want to live forever.

 

actually a recent brtish study with over 1ooo poeple showed that prayer only helped if the poeple being prayed for were actually aware of it, and in that case it's easily explained as a psychological effect.

 

[C]If you consider pure energy nothing, then there probably will be nothing in an electron. Once scientists understand better how energy transforms into matter it will be possible to better understand what happened at the big bang and how one can create something tangible from nothing non-tangible.

[truefusion 3]

[A] I agree, but then the survival instinct insead of us is very strong and I can understand how some poeple would want to live forever.

 

actually a recent brtish study with over 1ooo poeple showed that prayer only helped if the poeple being prayed for were actually aware of it, and in that case it's easily explained as a psychological effect.

 

[C]If you consider pure energy nothing, then there probably will be nothing in an electron. Once scientists understand better how energy transforms into matter it will be possible to better understand what happened at the big bang and how one can create something tangible from nothing non-tangible.

 

[A]Indeed. But, i was implying that not everyone who wants eternal life believes in God, or even thinks about a god.

 

Good to know. But, what about my other question?:

how can people revive people by prayer?

Can a dead person be aware of things? Also, there was another study, 8 patients. 4 of which were prayed for. They were all diagnosed with the same thing. All prayer was done in the background. None of the patients were aware of it. 4 patients were prayed for, the other 4 weren't. The 4 that were prayed for, came out of the hospital in better, healthier conditions then the ones that weren't prayed for. The interesting part is that they were all treated no differently, besides the fact that 4 of which were prayed for.

 

[C]Hopefully, they find something interesting before i die.

[Blacklaser 0]

Good to know. But, what about my other question?:

Can a dead person be aware of things? Also, there was another study, 8 patients. 4 of which were prayed for. They were all diagnosed with the same thing. All prayer was done in the background. None of the patients were aware of it. 4 patients were prayed for, the other 4 weren't. The 4 that were prayed for, came out of the hospital in better, healthier conditions then the ones that weren't prayed for. The interesting part is that they were all treated no differently, besides the fact that 4 of which were prayed for.

 

Nope dead persons can't be aware of things, as soon as the complex network brakes down awareness stops.

 

Study with eight (8) persons? pure coincidence

[truefusion 3]

[1]Nope dead persons can't be aware of things, as soon as the complex network brakes down awareness stops.

 

Study with eight (8) persons? [2]pure coincidence

 

[1]That's good to hear. That would mean if someone were to raise someone from the dead, by the means of prayer, that would contradict (underline by me):

actually a recent brtish study with over 1ooo poeple showed that prayer only helped if the poeple being prayed for were actually aware of it, and in that case it's easily explained as a psychological effect.

Although, the 8 patients test should have already contradicted it.

 

[2]It can be said to be "pure coincidence", and be left at that. But what if another study of the exact same thing would happen again, and the results were the same? Would it still be consider "pure coincidence"? How about if it happened a third time? Still a "pure coincidence"? Truly, i'm not aware of other instances, but now i want to look for more.

Edited June 19, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[Blacklaser 0]

You're right of course it would contradict that but guess why nobody has ever been raised from the dead... and no I don't believe that Jesus was raised form the dead, there is NO empiric proof anybody has ever been raised from the dead.

Edited June 19, 2006 by Blacklaser (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

You're right of course it would contradict that but guess why nobody has ever been raised from the dead... and no I don't believe that Jesus was raised form the dead, there is NO empiric proof anybody has ever been raised from the dead.

 

Don't worry, i wasn't going to mention Jesus's resurrection. But, now that you've mentioned it, how about Jesus's miracles? You know the one where he rose Lazarus from the dead, what do you think about that?

 

Also [link] (bold by me):

Branham's engagement with the supernatural included miracles. In 1948 God showed him a vision of a boy being raised from the dead. He related the details to his audiences and asked them to write those details down in the flyleaves of their bibles.

 

The vision was fulfilled two years later during a speaking trip to Helsinki, Finland in 1950 at the scene of a street accident near Kuopio, Finland. A boy on a bicycle had been struck by a car and had been killed. Branham's party had come upon the scene, and he then asked that the sheet covering the boy's body be removed, because he recognized the boy as the one he had seen in his vision. He then prayed over the child and the child was raised from the dead.

I guess there's "no empiric proof" of anyone being raised from the dead, cause it is well hidden; took me a while to find that. But, everything that is hidden shall become visible.

[D1SASTER OWNZ YOU 0]

well,it is hard to believe something that you have not seen before.but suprisingly,when you are in need,and when you pray,things just works out fine.<br>i believe that god is the creater of all.thanys about it:D

YEA what that guy said

[Blacklaser 0]

Don't worry, i wasn't going to mention Jesus's resurrection. But, now that you've mentioned it, how about Jesus's miracles? You know the one where he rose Lazarus from the dead, what do you think about that?

 

Also [link] (bold by me):

I guess there's "no empiric proof" of anyone being raised from the dead, cause it is well hidden; took me a while to find that. But, everything that is hidden shall become visible.

 

You want me to believe something from a book written about a guy more than 30 years after he lived about 2000 years ago, translated transcribed and retranslated, partly lost, found modified and still going? Also poeple have been known to think someone is dead when they really aren't (probably the case with that boy) and reports of poeple buried alive (which may well be the case with Lazarus if there is anything to that story at all which I don't think.) can be found througout history.

 

If you find me an exemple of a person clinically dead (no alpha and no beta brainwaves) for more than 7 days and resurrected afterwards with supervision of at least 3 independent scientists, I'll start considering it empirical proof of resurrection.

Edited June 19, 2006 by Blacklaser (see edit history)

[Madkat-Z 0]

I'm rather stuck on the issue really. God is something that you create in your own mind, not from some book or someone else opinion. For some people, God is many differnt beings, some God is a man, others a women. Its really a question to have a black and white anwser to it. My belief is God (Gods, Goddess, Cow, Donkey, whatever) just the human explination for things we can and cannot control.

[truefusion 3]

You want me to believe something from a book written about a guy more than 30 years after he lived about 2000 years ago, translated transcribed and retranslated, partly lost, found modified and still going?

The NIV Bible is one of the most accurately translated Bibles available. Many reliable scriptures were used for the making of such Bible. Footnotes and other information inform people of the varieties.

 

Also poeple have been known to think someone is dead when they really aren't (probably the case with that boy) and reports of poeple buried alive (which may well be the case with Lazarus if there is anything to that story at all which I don't think.) can be found througout history.

Good points. However, it can go either way, cause of uncertainty. Since we weren't there, we have to take other people's words for it.

 

If you find me an exemple of a person clinically dead (no alpha and no beta brainwaves) for more than 7 days and resurrected afterwards with supervision of at least 3 independent scientists, I'll start considering it empirical proof of resurrection.

Wow! But, must it be 3 scientists? Be not one scientist, and two other witnesses enough? Or is that one scientist is proned to error? If so, then wouldn't a minimum of 2 scientists be enough? Also, why more than 7 days? Is that, like, a procedure that is taken, just incase? Edited June 19, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[Blacklaser 0]

lol I think you shouldn't have any problems finding 3 scientists.... and yeah the 7 days is just in case, one never knows what near-but-not-quite dead phenomena science hasn't discovered yet.P.S.: reliable scriptures? I don't consider something written from a very subjective ponit-of-view reliable (such as the aposteles, they probably have the most subjective p.o.v. possible). To be reliable, something needs to be as objective as possible.

Edited June 20, 2006 by Blacklaser (see edit history)