How To Convince Atheists Of God's Existence

[grnjd 0]

you can't convince anyone of God's existance. If they don't believe in god, then its fine with me, everyone is free to do their own thing?

[WindAndWater 0]

I started writing a very long, and somewhat painful rebuttal, but then I realized that it said the entire thing over and over again. It refutes the presented arguments by breaking them down into two catagories:1) Arguments that can be given a counter-example2) Arguments where the interpretation of the text is streached, illogical, or less persuasive than another interpretation.If you really feel the need to see my rebuttal, I can finish it and PM it to you.To Joshua:1) The second law of thermodynamics talks about energy, not life. There are still plausable explinations about the creation of the Big Bang involving preexisting energy.2) You said that God created sex to only be within the confines of marriage. Assuming that you agree that humanity at one point didn't have a social structure that supported marriage, how does that work? If you're a proponant of creationism, and the garden of eden then you can sidestep this question, but not otherwise.3) Testicles are outside of the body cavity because they need a lower temperature than 98.6F for sperm production.4) Any time you translate a work the meaning gets shifted at least subtly, because cultural constructs and idiom s don't match up one to one between languages. Also, since humans are fallible, isn't it reasonable to expect some monk copying manuscripts somewhere to make a few mistakes, and to have those mistakes be propagated?

Edited April 25, 2006 by WindAndWater (see edit history)

[loyal 0]

WindAndWater, don't finish just send

[PIPER-4-HIRE 0]

War is not the cause from religion. What about hitler? What about communism in russia? What about atomic bomb? This are just some examples which are not part of religion. Religions like Christianity preach forgiveness. Where is the war in that? Islam says you should never attack except in self defence. Where is the war in that? Buddhism says peace and no harm to living things. Where is the harm in that?

Hitler Slaughtered millions of jews because he thought the were a lesser race/religion...

What about the wars in the middle east? Or how bout America VS. Muslims? The Crusades? and the list goes on...

If you stand by your god thats fine by me however dont say that religion doesnt cause problems in society, because it does.

*EDIT*
i am not sayin that eastern religions cause war(except for jihad/terrorist...but thats different), it is western religion that is corrupt.

Buddism/Taoism/Confucism are ways of life, they do not worship Creator Gods as westerners do

P.S. The Atomic Bomb didnt start a war *EDIT*
Edited April 25, 2006 by PIPER-4-HIRE (see edit history)

[BooZker 0]

This is such a dumb post. This is why i'm NOT religious and will never be a christian for sure. Don't convince anyone because you never will be able to. How about this i'll convert all christians to be satanic. It never will happen so just stop with this B/S about getting others to believe in your religion.

[truefusion 3]

This is such a dumb post. This is why i'm NOT religious and will never be a christian for sure. Don't convince anyone because you never will be able to. How about this i'll convert all christians to be satanic. It never will happen so just stop with this B/S about getting others to believe in your religion.

If you havent noticed, it's "How to...". Not, "You should believe, cause...". There's a difference. Also, it's not that hard to convince someone that God exists. The hard part is having them follow one's religion.

[hr=noshade]

Hitler Slaughtered millions of jews because he thought the were a lesser race/religion...

This doesnt really relate to religion. Unless, Hilter mentioned that he was ordered by some supreme being to do so. It's more of a thing that affected religion, not was a part of religion. Get what i'm saying? It was all because of one dude's opinion, and he took advantage of the people. Since, it was basically a time of depression.

What about the wars in the middle east? Or how bout America VS. Muslims? The Crusades? and the list goes on...

Sorry that i cant comment on this, since i lack knowledge in the area.

dont say that religion doesnt cause problems in society, because it does.

Society used to be runned by religion. Until more and more people started rebuking religion. That's where things got worse. Now, whenever someone mentions something about religion, they get rebuked. Unless, it agrees with their views.[/hr]
Edited April 29, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[Joshua 0]

I started writing a very long, and somewhat painful rebuttal, but then I realized that it said the entire thing over and over again. It refutes the presented arguments by breaking them down into two catagories:1) Arguments that can be given a counter-example
2) Arguments where the interpretation of the text is streached, illogical, or less persuasive than another interpretation.

If you really feel the need to see my rebuttal, I can finish it and PM it to you.

To Joshua:
1) The second law of thermodynamics talks about energy, not life. There are still plausable explinations about the creation of the Big Bang involving preexisting energy.
2) You said that God created sex to only be within the confines of marriage. Assuming that you agree that humanity at one point didn't have a social structure that supported marriage, how does that work? If you're a proponant of creationism, and the garden of eden then you can sidestep this question, but not otherwise.
3) Testicles are outside of the body cavity because they need a lower temperature than 98.6F for sperm production.
4) Any time you translate a work the meaning gets shifted at least subtly, because cultural constructs and idiom s don't match up one to one between languages. Also, since humans are fallible, isn't it reasonable to expect some monk copying manuscripts somewhere to make a few mistakes, and to have those mistakes be propagated?

1) And what would those explanations be? Have you ever read Hugh Ross' "The Fingerprint of God"? I don't agree with all his conclusions concerning evolution but he presents a very good explanation of how theories like the Steady State Model and the Hesitation Theory have been so debunked as to cause more and more scientists to desert them.

2) True, but it is compatible with creationism, and natural law shows things held common by consciences regardless of culture and our environment serve to differentiate us from lesser species which feel no such inclinations.

4) Humans are fallible but that does not block the possibility of an infallible God overcoming such weaknesses if He could also create all that now is. Our weaknesses do not determine the strength of God. Ultimately this is an important enough subject that to make assumptions concerning the most essential matters of our existence, God's existence, and our eternity are too vital to simply be guessed at or assumed on ill-done research. As Plato said:

"The life which is unexamined is not worth living."

Ultimately our conclusions of the Bible's reliability or lack thereof should be evaluated objectively based on our evaluation of its reliability and validity through the same tests used to examine other historical documents. I mentioned already internal evidence, external evidence, and bibliographical evidence as applied in "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Is the text consistent? Does it make errors in reasoning? Do the witnesses contradict themselves or each other? Does it seem they seek more to glorify themselves or to tell the truth? Do they admit their faults or seek to hide them? Does archeological evidence support or debunk the location/geneological facts provided?

[DogEater008 0]

i believe religons where once created to run socieity because they were lacked with the knownledge that we have now. They did not know what made the earth. For example, they thought everything was made of four elements which are; fire, earth, wind, and water if i didn't make any mistake. This just show how people used their enviorment to explain things that they did not know and unable to reach the truth. Religon might also help one to become a better person, when as time passes by, religon evolved into something more scary. For example, (i don't mean to offend anyone but this is just my thoughts) musslum were taught that if they are willing to die for their believe, then when they die, there will be a place higher than heave reserved for them. I don't know about you people, but to me, i think his is a way people in higher rank manipulate other people to do things. I'm not saying that reglion are bad, but it gets worse when people are so serious about the exisitance of a more superior being that is illogical. They trys to convert other into believing their god does exist and if you don't beleive in it, then you will go to hell. They also tried to argue about things that can be backed up with evidences. I once had a debate with a friend of mine, and he was a christain. He directly insulted me by saying i'm so GOD DAMN CLOSE MINDED for not believing in god. That just made me pissed even know. He is the one that is unwilling to except something that have at least some evidence existed, but instead he refused to and called me close minded. To me, about god exisitance is way out of my mine. For most subject, i might have a 100 percents certain, but for this , the answer is very obivous. Superior being(s) doesn't exist.I'm sorry if i offended any of you, but that is what i believed in. There are no point of making this kind of debate topic because it's either one way or the other. This is not like debate over abortion or legallize illegal immigration. This is a subject that either you believe in or not. There is no way to prove that god does exist because as far as i know, no one EVER MADE CONTACT WITH HIM or HER. Even if some might, you cannot take their words as facts.

[Joshua 0]

Hitler Slaughtered millions of jews because he thought the were a lesser race/religion...
What about the wars in the middle east? Or how bout America VS. Muslims? The Crusades? and the list goes on...

If you stand by your god thats fine by me however dont say that religion doesnt cause problems in society, because it does.

*EDIT*
i am not sayin that eastern religions cause war(except for jihad/terrorist...but thats different), it is western religion that is corrupt.

Buddism/Taoism/Confucism are ways of life, they do not worship Creator Gods as westerners do

P.S. The Atomic Bomb didnt start a war *EDIT*

Hitler murdered Christians as well as Jews. Read down this list, how many of these are Christians I don't know. But as you'll see many times it refers to them simply as "Christian name unknown"

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

There is a group called "The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous" started by Rabbi Harold Schulweis. Here is an excerpt from a Jewish site here:

https://www.vbs.org/sites/default/files/uploaded_documents/tech_flyer_4.15.15_final.pdf?p=724

With me it began in the 60s. I have met Gentiles, Christian men and women, flesh and blood beings from all walks of life and from every country occupied or intimidated by the Nazis who risks life, limb, wealth of their families to hide and protect and save members of our people. Christian rescuers of another faith who hid our kin in closets, attics, sewers, pigsties, garbage bins, baking stoves, and holes in the ground. Christian people, those Begin called "goyim" who falsified passports and baptismal certificates with full awareness that apprehension meant incarceration or death.
Their names, their exploits are buried in anonymity, at best in footnotes. Our ignorance is costly and not part of Jewish memory. They know that amnesia is costly. Why along with the names of Hydrich and Himmler and Klaus Barbie should they not know the names of Jo Kleiman, Jan and Miep Geis and Victor Kugler, Elizabeth Voskuyl, Kralen. Those are names of Christians who kept Anne Frank and her family and the others hidden in the attic for two and a half years.

For more info from a Jewish perspective on Christian rescuers:

http://www.chambon.org/righteous_conduct_en.htm

The same Catholic Church which organized the Crusades also killed many Christians through the middle ages. Look up the anabaptists, donatists, hutterites, mennonites, and paulicians.

As for your eastern religions, did you know Christians are constantly killed and imprisoned every day by Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and others in countries like India, Iran, and Egypt?

[truefusion 3]

DogEater008, you have not offended me, but i would like to mention something. It is impossible to prove that God never existed. Unless someone can make something out of nothing, there is no reason to believe that God never existed. Just cause we cant make something out of nothing, doesnt mean it hasnt happend. Remember an old question, "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"? Well, for me, when logic kicks in, the chicken came first, because it takes the chicken to lay the egg. But, then the question arises, who made the chicken? And if you believe, that the egg came first. Then a question still arises, who put the egg there? But, the thing about the egg, who was there to keep the egg warm? Thinking that the egg came first means more questions need to be answered.

But,

you cannot take their words as facts.

Same can be said for every other non-fiction book.

[sylenzednuke 0]

Well, okay so I didn't bother reading majority of the posts above and this point may have been mentioned a lot of times before but one thing is for sure, don't ever utter a word about God in front of an atheist, okay you can utter it but don't point that sentence to him/her as this really pisses atheists like me.I see so many people, around me, daily wishing me "god bless you" and stuff and it really irritates. Okay they might not be actually trying to convert me or something and some might not even know that I am an atheist but that doesn't matter. I don't believe in the "intelligent design" theory and yeah I have no proof of my own that God doesn't exist but I do want to believe that he is just a imaginery character or a imaginery freind of the person who actually started this religion thing back when people didn't even knew languages. They didn't know so much and communities were just like created and no one even looked as human as we do look now and yeah sex and everything was not known till then as reproduction became known to humans much later, then if religion contains things about sex and stuff then I am forced to believe that it has been amended thousands of times.For physical proofs, there are many and it would prove that all religions are true, okay I agree, but then why do we have fights? Okay you might say that it was because of some fanatics but hey what would you do if I say that : THE RELIGION OF *You're religion here.* IS FAKE, SUCKS AND IS OF NO SENSE.Obviously this would boil your head like hell, now call me a fanatic? O_oI am telling you we Atheists get irritated a lot when people speak in this manner to us.So we currently are having this festival known as Naratri and with dancing, we worship Goddess Amba during the 9 days. And as always I didn't want to attend any sort of a thing in that festival and sitting on my PC the whole day would be far better for me. So 2 days ago, the Pooja (process of worship) was to be conducted by my family, me, my mom and my dad. I hesitated a little in joining in it first but then I agreed but I was in no mood. I wasn't even half ready till then time, we had to leave and I was pretty y'know rude kinda guy with the public there as I didn't like the atmosphere at all. And one lady told me that why didn't I bring my friends as this festival is pretty popular amongst the youth but not my friends as half of them are atheists and others are weak atheists. SO I said that I myself didn't want to come for this thing then how can you expect me to bring in my friends in it? The next day I mean yesterday, she told my mom to get me to some BABA (spiritual psychologist) as she suspected that the DEVIL has taken over my mind and now I am really pissed with her and will leave no chance to insult her.

[83perish 0]

Don't try to convince atheists of the existance of one (or many) God(s), don't try to convince mono- or polytheists of the nonexistance of God(s), you'll just end up pissing off somebody.
You can't convince anybody that what he or she believes in is wrong unless he or she has already started doubting it. No matter how good the evidence for one side is, the only thing you'll do is make the other side angry by telling them that they're wrong. Why do you think so many wars have been focused on religion? I don't remember who said it or what exactly he said, but there was a quote I heard that is something like "If you want to make someone angry, tell him that his belief system is wrong."

Now from reading this response do you think that I'm religious? That I agree that atheism is wrong? I'm not religious at all, I just know what makes people angry, and this is a very good example of that.

yes, dont even try, 1 - it is not polite, 2 - hundreds of years ago conquistadord were doing that, killing.
i consider myself as radical atheist, since i dont belive, but KNOW there is no god(if you belive there is no god you are not troo atheist), you dont even have base to start convincing me, but what you can do is tell others why you belive god exists, thou they may laugh at you. no offence ment to anyone by this post. ty.

[Brian Gillingham 0]

yes, dont even try, 1 - it is not polite, 2 - hundreds of years ago conquistadord were doing that, killing.

i consider myself as radical atheist, since i dont belive, but KNOW there is no god(if you belive there is no god you are not troo atheist), you dont even have base to start convincing me, but what you can do is tell others why you belive god exists, thou they may laugh at you. no offence ment to anyone by this post. ty.

 

Agnostics believe that there is a God, but don't adhere to doctrines. They just believe that something almighty is out there. The difference is that Athiests don't believe in God whatsoever.

 

I agree with the last few posts - I think that even though people have freedom of speech, speech would all be better if it were limited to facts. Sure, it may be more boring speech, but at least it is factual. I am pretty sure that things were pretty boring on the planet Vulcan (Star Trek reference).

 

Anyway, I have engaged christians and jewish people about their religion. I am curious what makes the believer's mind work like that - because they always seem to have these huge gaps of "faith" and contradiction. I have never once been convinced of anything about God by a christian or jewish friend of mine. I would talk to some Asians, Arabs and Eskimo about their beliefs if I knew any here in Pennsylvania, but that is what forums are really good for - talking with your extended neighborhood.

 

The bottom line for me is : you won't ever convince me of God's supposed existence because I live in a world that is based on reality. My mind does not need to have a "god" character to help explain what I can't understand. There were many things that I didn't understand during my first year of college, but that all changed; I accept that there are just some things that I may never understand - but that certainly is not a reason to say that God did it.

[spy_charly 0]

mmm do you really need to convince them? things happen in order to convince you is something i have learnt.... when you talk to people about god's existance they get angry with no reason... i mean you are not saying bad words or something you are just sharing you opinion.... what's more do not talk everytime about that as i told people get angry when you always talk .... i must confess it is sometimes tiring hearing people that tells you always the same.... BUT why do not hearing to them or you in your case, well it might be due to when someone just wants to express his point of view about something to religious people think they are making a war or something.... so if they want us to understand, first understand we are all people and have likes and dislikes and you should know what are the best ocations to talk about god's options for our lifes and also when is the best time to admit our mistakes and not every morning when we are hurrying for work or school...

[pixieloo 0]

In the end, it's not what we say that'll convince someone that Jesus died for him/her so that he/she can go to heaven. We plant the seeds, but the flower might not bloom yet. Another person might have to water it. But in the end, God allows that flower to grow by using the Holy Spirit.