Immigration : Debate On Immigration By Senate Allow illegal immigrants to work toward legal status

[PsyberMind 0]

From CNN:

The Senate opened a debate on immigration Wednesday, with Majority Leader Bill Frist saying he will oppose a controversial proposal to allow illegal immigrants to work toward legal status. How to handle immigration and the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. has become a hot-button issue in the run-up to this year's elections.

Heres my take on it.. First of all, I question Senator Harkin when he said:

From Learfield Communications/Radio Iowa:

Harkin says it's an earned program of legalization that allows the illegal immigrants to earn their way by working, paying a fine and learning English. Harkin says there are 11 to 12 million illegal aliens in the country, many of whom are already contributing to the nation's prosperity. He says they're filling jobs that in most cases go unfilled, and they're not going away.

What I see here, is a United States Senator saying that "Oh Well, We dont care if they've been here for years illegally.. we're just going to turn our backs on that little detail and make them legal." What are they thinking? Immigrant workers taking jobs that others wont take? Well we would take them if the illegal immigrants weren't gobbling them all up!

I dont want to get too much into this in THIS post.. I would like to open it up first.
Edited December 4, 2006 by OpaQue (see edit history)

[Tyssen 0]

Immigrant workers taking jobs that others wont take? Well we would take them if the illegal immigrants weren't gobbling them all up!

You'd think so but in a lot of cases, locals aren't prepared to do the type of work that immigrants (legal or otherwise) seem to pick up. As for making illegals legal, maybe it's actually cheaper for the government? I don't know anything about how your system works, I'm just posing a possibility.

[truefusion 3]

What I see here, is a United States Senator saying that "Oh Well, We dont care if they've been here for years illegally.. we're just going to turn our backs on that little detail and make them legal." What are they thinking? Immigrant workers taking jobs that others wont take? Well we would take them if the illegal immigrants weren't gobbling them all up!

Yea, they're gobbling them up, cause they're not filled! Where were these other people, legal citizens, when these jobs became available? Apparently, nowhere. These immigrants came here to earn a living. How does that happen? By getting hired.

[Mich 0]

Yea, they're gobbling them up, cause they're not filled! Where were these other people, legal citizens, when these jobs became available? Apparently, nowhere. These immigrants came here to earn a living. How does that happen? By getting hired.

 

Well, it is not all that simple. Maybe the people were there looking for the jobs, but the organization hired some employment agency to do their hiring for them. Then this employment agency is working for the purpose of finding jobs for illegals. This is what happened in Michigan. A tribe of Indians in Acme, MI, bought a large hotel complex. They didn't have the knowledge to hire the employees they needed, so they contracted an employment agency to do it for them. Unfortunately, this agency had a pool of illegals to draw from and they hired them on to work for the hotel. They were eventually found out, but look at the jobs that legal citizens could have been hired for if this agency had been on the up and up. Jobs are hard to find on your own. I went through a legitimate employment agency years ago myself. So don't be too quick to condemn the legals that "weren't around". Another thing you need to take into consideration is that these illegals are most of the time working and living as a group. This way they can gobble up all the minimum wage part-time jobs, combine their resources and survive. So many employers are going to this format to save having to pay benefits. People cannot survive in today's economy in these sorts of jobs. My goodness, it takes two full-time incomes at least just to buy a house.

 

Now as to the Senator's solution. Bah, Humbug. If they are in this country illegally, they need to be sent back where they came from.

[Tyssen 0]

If they are in this country illegally, they need to be sent back where they came from.

That was the point I was trying to make: what if the cost of tracking down, rounding up, detaining, processing and deporting these people is more expensive than letting them stay and making them pay taxes?

[Kim 0]

But isn't of America the land of promise for years now? Weren't your ancestors immigrants? How were they different from these immigrants? Why not incorporate them into the melting pot that is America and make it harder for them to leave?

[semeticsister 0]

I happen to be an immigrant. Me an dmy family immigrated here when I was three years old, and we were honest hard-working people. And about the thing PsyberMind said about immigrants "gobbling up" our jobs, that is just plain STUPID. It's not like some Mexican waits in a parking lot, ambushes some guy and literally takes his job. That's not how it works. Some lazy fat American elitist snob is probably thinking that mopping up vomit is "beneath his dignity" so what do you think companies like walmart and target are going to do? Of course they're going to hire illegal immigrants! (or legal immigrants for that matter)And I totally agree with what Kim said about our ancestors being immigrants and America being just one big melting pot. If it weren't for immigrants, America would just be some bland and boring country. And as for Mich saying that illegal immigrants need to be sent back to where they came from, that is the epitome of American mentality. Face it, the culture and appeal of America is built on illegality and vice. Would Las Vegas be so tempting if their were no casinos and prostitutes? Back in the 1920's during Prohibition, were there not people in speakeasies brewing illegal alcohol?Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-American or anything. I'm proud to be a citizen of this country and I am glad that I escaped from the anti-semetism of the USSR at the tender age of 3. But sometimes, Americans can just be downright ignorant.

[PsyberMind 0]

Some lazy fat American elitist snob is probably thinking that mopping up vomit is "beneath his dignity" so what do you think companies like walmart and target are going to do? Of course they're going to hire illegal immigrants! (or legal immigrants for that matter)

But typically that isnt the case. Employers hire immigrant workers simply because they will work for any compensation rate. Because employers are too cheap to pay people what they are worth. Instead, they pay someone peanuts to mop up a floor when a qualified janitor, who is worth at least 6 bucks an hour, is just too expensive. And I'm not talking about coroporate jobs. I'm talking about labor based jobs.. Fields, meat processing plants, etc.. companies like that hire migrant workers because TYPICALLY.. not always.. they can get away with paying them under the minimum wage, when someone who WANTS to work, who is legal, but KNOWS how much they should be paid, is shunned away because it costs the employer too much

I mean, I'm all for immigration reform, but to simply turn our backs on people who have been here for years illegally and just issue them a green card like they did nothing wrong? I dont think thats the best course of action

[trace-uk 0]

I think its weird that people form the USA, UK, canada, and australia have to go through allt hese check to immigrate to each of these countries. I mean, they've all got the same culture and genetically most of the populations in the countries are very similar, they all speak english (hell the UK invented the english language). And they are all very, very, very close allies.Anyone else agree? Shoudln't there be an open borders policy like there is in the EU? I can go to live in france or spain NOW without any green card (and that's a different culture and language) but I can't go to australia or canada without a greencard????Also, all of these countries have really good economies.

[wariorpk 0]

I am all for legal immigration but illegal immigration is wrong and should be cracked down on. If you come to this country without filling out the proper forms and what not the government does not know that you are here. You do not have to pay taxes and if citizens have to pay taxes to live here people who are not citizens should as well. People can just come right over the boarder and cause harm to our country. If you have nothing to hide whats wrong with comming here legally?

[truefusion 3]

My family are all immigrants. They all work for a living. They all left cause their countries were too harsh. They sought a better living, and found it. And for those "illegal" immigrants that "dont have to pay taxes", you try finding a job, that isnt "under the table", and NOT pay taxes! You guys havent walked in our shoes for a mile. Yet, you guys call yourselves "citizens" just cause you were borned here. Bah! This country is runned on immigration, since it first became a country. For the same reason immigrants come here!

 

Another thing you need to take into consideration is that these illegals are most of the time working and living as a group. This way they can gobble up all the minimum wage part-time jobs, combine their resources and survive.

Have you ever thought about the fact that, maybe, we're working and living together as a group is cause we have no other choice? Apparently, many people dont want us here. So, it would seem LOGICAL to live and work in areas where we are actually wanted.

 

"First come, first served", isnt that how it goes? Some people consider themselves too good to be doing all the dirty work. While the immigrants, are just glad to even have such a job! Better than what most of them had back where they lived. Dont hate the person just cause they got the job first.

 

And whose to say all immigrants didnt work to get here? Florida has a wet-foot dry-foot policy. If you're caught out at sea, you are to return back to your country. If you touch land, you're allowed to stay. Mind you, there are many coast guards. These coast guards do many things to prevent the immigrants from coming in.

Edited March 30, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[Tyssen 0]

Face it, the culture and appeal of America is built on illegality and vice. Would Las Vegas be so tempting if their were no casinos and prostitutes? Back in the 1920s during Prohibition, were there not people in speakeasies brewing illegal alcohol?

That's a stupid argument. "Oh, let's not be worried about crime because it's been going on for ages." That's like saying that all African-Americans shouldn't be allowed in white public places cos that's the way it used to be.

but I can't go to australia or canada without a greencard????

You don't need a greencard for Australia. You have to apply to immigrate and you need to meet a certain set of criteria, but it's not a greencard system like the US has.
And no, it's not just English-speaking countries that operate that way. Ever been to Asia or Central/South America? Lots of countries require visas just to visit, let alone immigrate. The only reason why there's an open border policy within the EU is because Europe wants to be a trading entity to rival the US, China etc. Having free borders facilitates the importing/exporting of goods, so I think it's more to do with economics than any social aspect.

[brandice 0]

Harkin says it's an earned program of legalization that allows the illegal immigrants to earn their way by working, paying a fine and learning English. Harkin says there are 11 to 12 million illegal aliens in the country, many of whom are already contributing to the nation's prosperity. He says they're filling jobs that in most cases go unfilled, and they're not going away.

I agree with this stance. I agree that many of the immigrants are doing jobs that would otherwise go unfilled. Seriously, think about this. It's horrible but there aren't a lot of people rushing out to pick fruit or do day labor type jobs.

Making them work towards being citizens will change the structure of things, for sure. And what the republicans who are trying to build a fence and turn people away who have been here for years and years do not realize in all of this is that (I learned this on a news program the other night) these immigrants generally lean toward the right in politcal issues! More people to vote republican (yikes) but now that this is happening, I think that things are going to change. This situation works out bad for republicans any way that it goes.

[Mich 0]

My family are all immigrants. They all work for a living. They all left cause their countries were too harsh. They sought a better living, and found it.

Another thing you need to take into consideration is that these illegals are most of the time working and living as a group. This way they can gobble up all the minimum wage part-time jobs, combine their resources and survive.

Have you ever thought about the fact that, maybe, we're working and living together as a group is cause we have no other choice? Apparently, many people dont want us here. So, it would seem LOGICAL to live and work in areas where we are actually wanted.

I referred to "illegals" if you look closely. Are you saying you came to this country illegally? My family, although long ago, came here as immigrants also. As did all of us other than Native American Indians. My problem is with people who don't go through the proper procedures to live and work here.

 

And as for Mich saying that illegal immigrants need to be sent back to where they came from, that is the epitome of American mentality. Face it, the culture and appeal of America is built on illegality and vice. Would Las Vegas be so tempting if their were no casinos and prostitutes? Back in the 1920's during Prohibition, were there not people in speakeasies brewing illegal alcohol?

What does this have to do with coming into this country illegally? You say your family immigrated to this country, as I have stated, so did mine. But, if I am to assume your family did it legally, this is my point. I have absolutely nothing against immigrants as you seem to have interpreted. It is illegals that I have a problem with. When one does something seriously illegal in this country, they are punished. I say the punishment for entering this country illegally should be deportation.

 

As to your comments about illegality and vice being "the culture and appeal of America": My, my, what a low opinion of our country you have. This country was not founded on these principals, for heaven's sake. If this is your opinion of America, then why are you so proud to be one? Try reading the Declaration of Independence and the Constitutiion. These are the principals on which this country is founded. These are the principals which should make you proud to be an American.

[truefusion 3]

I referred to "illegals" if you look closely. Are you saying you came to this country illegally? My family, although long ago, came here as immigrants also. As did all of us other than Native American Indians. My problem is with people who don't go through the proper procedures to live and work here.

And you're saying we all got here legally? So, overpowering the Native Americans is legal, eh?
And as for these procedures, you mean like searching and applying for a job? Making an effort to get out of bed everyday, do your stuff, and go off to work? Supporting their families when need be? And many other stuff, we ALL do?
Edited March 31, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)