Various Religions, beliefs and conviction discussions of faith and opinions

[ATMcGuire 0]

hi everyone ...
i am a muslim living in australia. i have recently begun to explore and try to look for the confilct between Christianity and islam and i was a really suprised when i discover how much similarities between these two great religion.

but i could not understand the concept of Trinity. i ask several christian about it and it was shocking that most of them do not know what this concept means. they just believe it as a something which cannot be explained. however some people do asnwer my question. then, i get confused again when i saw the movie " the passion of the Christ", Juses was calling somebody at the bigenning of the movie " father ... father". logic would clash with that. was he calling himself? seems not.

them i said i should go to the Bible. i realised that it is not the word of Juses, so i tried to find Juses' words because if he is a god, he would not let people in a such confusing situation. what i discovered was: Juses never said anything about Trinity which is just an idea that was developed after Juses leave. He never said i am a son of god. He never said i has been sent for the entire world.

Christians also claim that Juses has been crucified for the sins of humans? can anyone explain to me which sins are forgiven?

thanks

I tried to read the main topic and could not make any sense of it so I will just reply to this...
How I understand the Trinity is that you can look at a human being as body, mind, and soul/spirit. And the trinity is a similar thing.. Jesus being the body and so on. Your body is a completly different than your mind in it function and can be uniquely identified by its functions. In the same way, the Trinity is comprised of three identities of God but that are each only one part of God. Other people around you can identify you by your body, but they could also identify you by listening to what you say... what is the content of your mind. In the same way I can identify the three different parts of God, even though they are all the same God. thats always clarified it for me, i guess.

your question about the passion of the christ. I do not believe that while Jesus was on earth he was all knowing. When He prayed to God, he was just as weak and uncertian as any other human. When he says Father he is praying to God in heaven.

And Jesus did say that he was the Son of God. He also said that He was sent of the sins of this world.

Which sins? All of them. Everything that separates flawed and sinful humans from a prefect God.

yeah.. so thank you.

[HoRuS 0]

Having a religion is a right. Nothing is right or wrong. No one should force a religion on anyone. And, in terms of BCE and BC, BC is not offensive to any religion or lack of one. I personally don't think the Common Era began at Jesus' death, but hey, its better then realating all my dates to the birth of a figure that only 1/3 of the world believes in as their "savior"

 

Good point

Why is it that everyone on this planet has to abide with the BC-stuff. We have no choice since the whole world is made to use it, in my opinion just another thing wich is forced upon us by religion. Ok it is kinda hard to determine the real date from when the Earth was created, but why not use the oldest calendar existing? The Egyptian/mayan calendar, wich was based upon the stars and planets, oh wait... maybe we arent allowed to use that one because otherwise they loose grip on us.

[ATMcGuire 0]

I'm an agnostic, leaning towards Athiesm.
What I've been wondering is how God created the universe. For someone to have created the universe, they would have to exist outside it, which is impossible because the universe contains absolutely everything.

I'm still looking for proof, so if someone can help me out it'd be greatly appreciated.

I think the trick there is all in the wording.

God one bright sunny morning decided it would be a good time to make time. and then he was thinking, 'I think a Universe sounds good right now, or at least what the humans I will make in it will know it as. ...Wait i didnt know that I was going to make humans, oh wait, I did know.. I have always known that.'

I hope God show me the equations for what He did--some fine day in the timeless heavens.

[CroSpartacus 0]

The reason of incomprehensibility is maybe due to the limitation of language. Our language is spoken in tenses. Past, present and future, hence we are crippled by lingustics to think in terms of a begining, now, and end. This is why there is a great difficulty of our limited intellect, to grasp the idea of a something that which has no begining. Especially of a something that has no end. One must dig deeper past that to find the answers.Our language is limited. But we have other limitations to overcome as well. What about our thought-process limitation which is related to our language limitation. Since we were not eternal but have a beginning and live with others, none of which does not have a beginning, how can the human mind comprehend what being eternal - meaning without beginning or end - really means? Everything we look at in this would points to the principle that everything that has a beginning has an end. The truth that God is eternal is not something we can possibly grasp or conclude from a study of the created world. To try to reason oneself to this conclusion cannot, therefore, come from anything we know of our experience or study in the natural world. To be the Eternal Creator of all that is means that the life of God is so unlike our own in a sense. God is not bound by time or space as He exists in His essence, since time is a measure of rotations of the Earth around the Sun and space is limited by being physical (even the 'His' language to express identity to God is inaccurate and so possibly misleading). God is not physical, but Spirit, and we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. The nature of God's being then is other than physical based. And spirit is not something that can be impirically witnessed or studied as our society is taught with the Scientific Method, for example. We so are caught in a conumdrum. How does a physical-based life form express an understanding about a spiritual-based life form when the physical based life form's understanding is so tied to this physical-based reality and language and ways of thinking that to even conceive of a different base for life is nearly impossible? It's impossible to comprehend at all what the Eternal God means without knowing the Eternal God, end of story.

[HoRuS 0]

I am speechless... Everything you wrote, CroSpartacus, is true.'God' exists inside as well as outside our reality of time and space for there It has no beginning nor an end, there is only now.I think the linguistic part of our brain have seperated us from our knowledge, wisdom and the ability to 'know' God. Of course, humans need linguages to communicate at this moment, but I think it would be a wise thing that society also teaches the children to use the non-linguistic part of our brain (the other 60-70% of our brains, wich aren't used) so next generations can be one step closer to what we are meant to be. When we are able to use our potential to the fullest, we as race shall also become eternal, thus understand the 'realm' wich lies beyond space and time.

[dangy 13 the runescape player 0]

I dont beleive in any god, or for that matter that anything exists.why, because nothing that has ever been seen or touched can be explained. How was everything created?Who or what did it and how were those created it goes on and on and on theres no point to the universe. I mean the universe couldnt of just appeared its just impossible just like life. We humans and the rest of the universe shouldn't be here. and if we werent then what would be here? would it be nothing? because nothing would have to like like something...and to what i was just talking about, if none of humanities theorys of how the universe was created makes sence. The big bang theory for instance. An atom so small u would need an electron microscope to see it( by the way the electron microscope is the most powerful in the world) The big bang theory states tha tone atom was there in the beginning and something happened that caused it to rupture thus creating a extremely huge explosion covering trillions of miles. Let me ask you something OK? how was that atom created? huh?!? nothing will ever make sense, the universe how life was created, anything!!!!oh and for those who belong to a religion, stop waisting your lives!!!! if god created everything then how was he created? It would make more sense if a artist was using a sketch pad and pencils( colored) lol to create everything .It's funner, wont cause war and u dontneed to go to a big **bottom** building and listen to a freak preech about god and his beleifs. "god" hah! id rather convert to satanism then to beleive in god (even though i dont beleive in the devil) it would be funner then sitting and listening to cospel music. If anyone has a problem with what im saying go to a mental institute because everything i' saying will touch you. It will make you think. People actually get payed to think like me, and i dont get payed!!!I have been thinking about it since i was 8 thats why i'm so independant of everyone, I dont kare. Now this will probably get me in trouble but u could just go around killing people it wouldnt matter! if u died maybe then you could find out wtf is going on!!!until then i'm just going to play runescape and guitar until i get richheres my email for those who want to talk bout this crap.missunderstood_alot@yahoo.com

[Thorned Rose 0]

I have died, and it's nothing like what any of the religions say it is (although I can't say that for sure as i don't know all the religions. Now, some religious people would say that's because you went to purgutory, or hell, or whatever but they can argue that till the cows come home but it won't change the facts. I died, it was nice, there were others there and I could 'see' everything which doesn't exactly fit with any of the ideas that common religions spout. dangy, it is really immature to say things like "id rather convert to satanism then to beleive in god". Are you saying that you would much rather be bad than good? I may disagree with religions in general but I do agree with many of the teachings, it's just a shame that so many religions ignore their own teachings about tolerance.

CroSpartacus and HoRuS, infinity and eternity is perfectly comprehendible. Unfortunately the way we are brought up is all about finites so we never really learnt to wrap our heads around much larger concepts.

Read some research in Quantum Physics and Mechanics. These sciences have by most peoples' standards , a lot of really wierd principles but makes for some very big eye openers on how the universe works. I will however admit that I sit in the 5-10% of people who's brains don't 'think' like everyone elses which does give me the advantage of understanding Quantum Physics and Mechanics easier than others, but I also know that thinking logically/laterally etc can be learned. Study Quantum Physics and Mechanics and you will most certainly learn how to think differently about the universe including infinity, eternity, time and space etc.

For a taste, think of time and relativity. Time is relative and arbitary. What one second might be to one person, is different to another and different to another moving at a great deal of speed. The faster you go, the more time slows down. Think of time as being like water. It can flow like a river or it can collect in a pool and stand still. If we are in a stationary boat on a fast moving river, the water moves past us and around us but if we start to move in the same direction as the water, it looks like the water isn't flowing as fast. If we were to turn around and go against the flow, it would seem like the water was flowing even faster. Now here's a kicker (and one I love), if we were to travel in the same direction as the water but even faster than the water is flowing, the water will look like it is flowing backwards! Quantum Physics and Mechanics has a lot of amazing principles like this analgogy. Once you understand ideas like these, it's no so hard to understand time, infinity and eternity.

I have to agree though that the Big Bang theory is flawed. Or perhaps I should say, incomplete. People will say that you can't get something from nothing and that is why the Big Bang Theory is crap however if you put Quantum Mechanics into play then nothing is something. Of course I could argue a lot of other ideas about why the Big Bang theory is perfectly feasible from a Quantum Mechanics point of view, but that would be a lot of writing so I would suggest you read them for yourself.

CroSpartacus, you say that God is not physical, but spiritual. Why are you disassociating spirit from body? I never understand why religions have this need to say that mind, physicality, spirit and soul are seperate. They cannot exist without each other. Another human idea that confounds me is the meaning of life. Why do religions insist that there is one? Why does there have to be one? Or are humans so insecure in themselves that they feel they must create a meaning even though their very existance is the meaning or rather the point. I hate to break it to you, but there is no meaning to life - Life is just life. The only point to it is to continue, learn, evolve and get better at continuing. Evolution of physical, mind, spirit and soul. Let go of your misconceptions, the preordained ideas that society and religions restrict us to and you will see he bigger picture. Now, I don't mean a free for all or anarchy. I'm a very moralistic person - as I said, the point is to learn and evolve and become better.

I keep saying, and I'll say it again - You do NOT need a religion to be a good person or go to 'heaven' or be fulfilled or find meaning in your life. You make your own meaning by how you live your life. Love life and live love, respect others and don't fear death. Death is one of the biggest lies that ever was. You do not 'die', your soul and spirit lives on, so does your body - it just breaks down into it's component parts and gives life to other things. When you start to see the bigger picture, you realise that religion is unneccessary and just another lie told.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Thorned Rose (see edit history)

[Poppy Lou 0]

You could go on discussing this subject forever and still have no real answers. It all comes down to faith in what you believe, not proof. We are just mere mortals and it's far too big for us to understand, it comes back to the age old question " if God made us, who made God?". You just have to trust that He is and will be forever.

There are a couple of things I think we should bear in mind. Firstly, remember that the bible was written by man, and as such is a powerful weapon in dictating how we ought to live our lives. There are many " instructions " contained in this book which have a powerful influence over relevant current day issues, for instance marriage between single sex couples. Who says it's wrong - God or man. Who Knows?

Another thing we just ought to live by what we believe in and not judge the beliefs of others. There's enough information around for people to make an informed choice. For me,I would never say there is not a God just in case there is.

[Thorned Rose 0]

As I said above, it's not too big to understand, you just have to expand your knowledge. There isn't enough information around to make an informed choice, otherwise people wouldn't be choosing religion to fulfill their insecurity. We hear more about putting our belief and faith in God and very little about putting our belief and faith in ourselves. How is that balanced and informed?

[truefusion 3]

Man, that's a lot of reading to go through! (Just had to say this).

We hear more about putting our belief and faith in God and very little about putting our belief and faith in ourselves.

Well, there's something that could be said about this, and probably more. When we put our belief and faith in God, we acknowledge His existence, and know with His help we can overcome evil. If you believe and have faith in yourself without doing the same to God first, then you may very well be promoting evil. God is the Light that shines in the darkness, and the Light that shines forever. With such a light guiding you, you will never stumble. If you believe in yourself and only yourself, you may stumble. Truly, truly, man cannot overcome sin alone. For such a reason is why you should place God first before all.
Referencing:
light = good, righteous, Holy Spirit
darkness = calamity
stumble = sin

[Aurex 0]

I believe that something is out there (you may include your ufo jokes here), but I do not believe or are a member of any specific religion. For me a religion is a tool used by governments to give order and morals to its people, just another tool for the powers that be...a tradition of based on lies to keep people from killing each other (example: The Catholic Church). Yet religion has been directly and indirectly responsible of more humans death than anything else. Beliving in your god because a miracle happened in your life or your mom told you to do so, or your elders tell you to follow in their foot steps, or you think there is a heaven or hell, it is your right and that is ok. Following your religion because it is your tradition or you need to be part of something it is ok, but if you kill or are ok with the killing of anyone based on their god or religion..well that is wrong. That is why I prefer believing in myself and not in some religion baked by some people hundreads of years ago, whom I have never met . But when the time comes and I am in mortal danger, I will probably pray for some god to help me out, no lies there, does this make me a hypocrite or just another fool who thinks there will be an answer from somewhere out there (include another ufo joke here)? Hey, I am human and will try anything to keep breathing.

[Thorned Rose 0]

When we put our belief and faith in God, we acknowledge His existence, and know with His help we can overcome evil. If you believe and have faith in yourself without doing the same to God first, then you may very well be promoting evil. God is the Light that shines in the darkness, and the Light that shines forever. With such a light guiding you, you will never stumble. If you believe in yourself and only yourself, you may stumble. Truly, truly, man cannot overcome sin alone. For such a reason is why you should place God first before all.

Sorry, truefusion but the idea of original sin is ridiculus. I used to be a devout Catholic and made more mistakes and screwups and wasn't living the best I could then than I am now. I have strict rules for how I live my life and hold myself to them. Not following a religion or worshipping God doesn't and hasn't made me weaker and I don't need religion or worship or prayer to keep me to my morals. I am not a sinner, I am not evil, I make mistakes but certainly not mistakes when it comes to my morals. By mistakes I mean I accidentally burn dinner sometimes, or fall over, or even back into someone driving - none of things make me evil or amoral or sinful - they make me human. On the other hand I have never killed, I am nice to people, I raise my children to value love and life etc which brings me to my motto: Love and Life - Love life and live love.My mum on the other hand and a number of other zealous Christians I know can be pretty damn awful people. Being religious hasn't made my mum or her friends better people - in fact it has made them worse. My mother's devotion to her church and God is at the expense of the well being of her family. She has no time for the people who need her most because she is spending so much time working for her church and worshipping God. I didn't live with her a lot of my life but so far my siblings that have lived with her have either ended up screwed up or are heading that way. Sorry, but I have seen very few examples of where religion and mindless worship have actually benefited greatly. All too often I see suffering, hurt, anger, intolerance, hypocrisy etc.
I am a walking example of the fact that you can lead a good and moral life without being religious.
Aurex, I agree totally. People should choose what they believe and have informed and balanced information from which to choose and decide upon.

Love and Life.

[truefusion 3]

Woe (!) to you who do not believe! Woe (!) to you 7 times and over! If you knew what was coming you'd be trying to save people like the rest of us! There are true followers.

 

@[Aurex]: Sadly i am for you, you believe we are all the same. Do not look at the ones that say they believe but in their hearts they dont! Those who truly believe will be saved, because they truly follow God's commands. Religion was not made by government, for it started before government ever existed. Sure, religion may have caused wars, but only in those that truly dont believe! But, we must look at the other wars caused by those who do not believe! They've killed many more, and for those who believed! You are indeed lucky mercy overpowers judgement! But, when the time of judgement comes, you may not want to be saved!

 

@[Thorned Rose]: I understand where you're going. But, when you've crashed someone from behind, did you ever repay them? Did you ever say you're sorry, and try to never do it again? Or did you just leave, like it never happened? As for these "christians" who stumble, do not look at them! Look at the ones who are truly Christians! You blame your mom for devoting herself to God. By the looks of it, you are underestimating God's power. If your mom ever prays to God, and asks for Him to help you, it shall happen! Cause by the looks of it, her faith keeps growing! It may not look like anything is happening by the works of God, cause it may seem like your work. But, indeed God always works! You do not thank Him for the food on your table? Without Him, there would be no food, to be placing on your table. You do not thank Him for giving you children? Without His work, you would not be able to make children. But, i'm sorry that you've taught your children to grow attached to life. For, when their lives end, what next? They'll wish they'd still be alive. But, God gives eternal life to those who want to be saved, and to those who truly believe! God has given you everything, and yet you still dont believe...

Edited April 11, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[JC05 0]

sorry, I can't agree. First of all, Jesus NEVER SINNED. He was perfect in every way. He was tempted, but never sinned. OK, I accept the fact you disprove Christians (in which I am), but I have a question: what if it is true? because if it is, your not lookin so good dude. how would you like to burn FOREVER! Never stops! Don't get me wrong, God isn't mean because he sends ppl to hell. He is loving, and he WANTS you to be with him. But since we sinned, we can't enter God's kingdom. Christianity is not a religion! It's a personal relationship. Dude, He loves you. I can't express it. I don't know you, but I would certainly want you in heaven! Its real! No joking, it's reality! You can't escape it. I know you probebly think this is silly. But think about this. "have you ever been wrong when you thought you were absolutely right?" I love you, whoever you are. I hope you come to thhis realization. nickmealey1@hotmail.com for any questions.

I agree totally with this dude here. I don't know who you are but I think you are on the right path. Except for the burning FOREVER. The burning forever translated from Greek I believe, And actually means UP, To completion. So you will burn, To the ground! It says that once every thing is burned up that the righteous will go out to trample on the ashes of the wicked. Which does not mean your going to go out and be like, Hey see this pile here? He was mean to me in the 7th grade. *stomp stomp*. It means we will see what the outcome of sin was. What happened to the wicked. One thing I do know is who will burn the longest, And that is Satin. I think that every one will be punished according to what they did here on here. So a serial killer will burn longer then someone who just lived their life but never excepted Christ. It really is unbelievable that Satin would go to all this trouble just so that when he is in the lake of fire he can look up at Christ, who will be saddest of every one. just to see him do sad and to be able to say, look at the ones I got. To every one that reads this, You do not want to be down there in the end. It is as real as you and me. Now just because I'm writing this, doesn't make me perfect. I do still sin, You can't help it. But Jesus can. He will forgive you if you ask for it. I can't make any body believe and I won't push my belief on any one. I just want every one to have the chance before its to late.

[HoRuS 0]

Woe (!) to you who do not believe! Woe (!) to you 7 times and over! If you knew what was coming you'd be trying to save people like the rest of us! There are true followers.

 

@[Aurex]: Sadly i am for you, you believe we are all the same. Do not look at the ones that say they believe but in their hearts they dont! Those who truly believe will be saved, because they truly follow God's commands. Religion was not made by government, for it started before government ever existed. Sure, religion may have caused wars, but only in those that truly dont believe! But, we must look at the other wars caused by those who do not believe! They've killed many more, and for those who believed! You are indeed lucky mercy overpowers judgement! But, when the time of judgement comes, you may not want to be saved!

 

@[Thorned Rose]: I understand where you're going. But, when you've crashed someone from behind, did you ever repay them? Did you ever say you're sorry, and try to never do it again? Or did you just leave, like it never happened? As for these "christians" who stumble, do not look at them! Look at the ones who are truly Christians! You blame your mom for devoting herself to God. By the looks of it, you are underestimating God's power. If your mom ever prays to God, and asks for Him to help you, it shall happen! Cause by the looks of it, her faith keeps growing! It may not look like anything is happening by the works of God, cause it may seem like your work. But, indeed God always works! You do not thank Him for the food on your table? Without Him, there would be no food, to be placing on your table. You do not thank Him for giving you children? Without His work, you would not be able to make children. But, i'm sorry that you've taught your children to grow attached to life. For, when their lives end, what next? They'll wish they'd still be alive. But, God gives eternal life to those who want to be saved, and to those who truly believe! God has given you everything, and yet you still dont believe...

 

Hmmmm if someone does not want to believe, don't Woe (!) them, it's their decision

How can you say religion wasn't made by the governments back then, were you there? lol

Those who killed Jesus, founded the Vatican and abused his teaching and wisdom for power. They incited crusades to convince and/or force other races to turn to 'their' God. They killed thousands of so called 'witches' and made them look evil, during the inquisition and still people kill for this 'God' oh and did I mention the head of Johan the Baptist, wich they still hold in their catacombs? The vatican was just an example, but every religion has worked (ruled) this way.

Oh and in every war, leader told their soldiers :'May God have mercy on you'.

 

No 'God' will decent from the skies to save us, the only ones who can save us are ourselves!

I really don't like that they use this to make people obey their laws. No one will go to hell for not listening or following their rules, wich is written and edited over and over again. Heck, Hell is just another made-up thing wich they use to control peoples, you really think a red kinda beast with a pointy tail, forked tongue and a bad breath is waiting under the soil on wich we walk for people who done bad things? Heh if I look at the 'Devil' this way, he reminds me of our 'beloved' worldleaders

Hell is just wat we make of our lives, nothing more, nothing less.

Edited April 11, 2006 by HoRuS (see edit history)