The Good Old Democracy Is it the best thing?

[adriantc 0]

I think the best thing that happened to this forum is The Vent, because every day you see or feel stuff that makes you angry and you have to share that to everyone. I think I am one of the most loyal members of The Vent... I wanted to tell you this before you will read the following...First of all I think I have opened someday a thread like this but I'm sure or in the mood to make a long search for it so, moderators, please excuse me if there is another post like this. Also if you happen to be from the so-called West (EU or USA) you'll probably won't understand much of what I am going to say just because you live in a different world. Hope you will read it all. So here we go...Today... it is for the billion time i've seen an old man begging for a penny. Of course this happens in every country but in my country, Romania is happens far to often. That old man I was talking about probably has worked his hole life and now he receives a very very small amount for money (my grandfather has worked in a factory where they melted steel to make tracks for trains and for 40 years of service he only gets 100$ a month). But in the same time, in some part of this city (capital of Romania) happens to be a a few 1000 giant million $ houses (i amoust cried when I saw them and thought that there are so many poor people in this country), built with stolen money, our money, my grandparents money.16 years ago (I was very litlte then) we got our so called freedom... the revolution... the communist regime that has ruled my country for over 50 years had fallen. Yes we've won the right to speak what we think, we have won the right to have all day TV, we've won the right to have internet and other very important rights. Democracy. Power of the people. Not True. Do I feel like I have the power? No. Our opinion only counts every 4 or 5 years for a month or two near the elections. Just as you put the stamp on that piece your paper you loose any power you had. Can I change them if I don't like how they rule this country. Of course not! Can I make laws... no you can't! Doesn't this mean that I don't have any power! And that is a good thing for them because if I had the power I'd shoot at least 10000 people today.Why would I say that? Because after you vote them (not as if you had a good and bad choice like the americans had with Al Gore...we only have a bad and a bad choice) the only thing they do is to go into the parlament and vote to increase their own salaries with OUR money or vote like they did last month to buy a 100 lamps each with a priced tag of 2000$ from OUR money. Not to mention the fact that the parliament is almoust everyday half empty (but still they vote like they were all there because one of them votes for 3) and if it isn't they sure are sleeping rather then talking about important stuff. So how couldn't you shoot them when they are wasting OUR money, the money that i'm sure could make a very big difference.Why this happens? Because even if the power in a democratic regime is slip, the people that have the power are united by the same wonderful thing called money. There is no-one that only thinks for the good of the nation, but they do think at the good of themselves and their family. This is democracy, this is why the people at the revolution died for. 16 years after their sacrifice this is what happens in a country that is due for integration in the UE in 2006 or 2007.On top of all that yesterday madam Rice has visited our country. Everywhere in the news you could read "the americans are coming!" because she came to sign a treaty for establishing 4 american military bases in Romania. We have waited for the americans since the end of The Second World War and now when they finally come they only do it so they can have outposts in Eastern Europe.Democracy is a good thing, but like world pace or the end of world hunger, it is only an utopia. Sadly most people, including the ones how rule us, think only for themselves and not for the good of others. With this kind of people democracy is as good as the old communist regime.

[no9t9 0]

You are not talking about democracy. Democracy is a good thing. The ideal democracy will have every person in the country vote on every subject. In the real world it works by representation. You vote for your representative to speak on your behalf in the governemnt.What you are talking about is CAPITALISM. This is all about accumulating private wealth. Ususally though, democracy is always associated with capitalism. But, there is a possibility to have a socialist democracy. It is having the socialist philosophy in a democratic country. In fact there are many parties in democratic societies with this philosphy. They are usually the left wing parties.Free health care, free education, etc. are all types of things that a socialist society can offer. In the united states, they offer free education but the free ones are crappy compared to the paid ones. In a socialist society the free schools are just as good, or at least comparible, to the paid schools.So it isn't democracy that is bad. Just capitalism.

[wariorpk 0]

You think that people in Europe and the United States do not understand this but we do. We have the same problems that you do. Our opinion only counts every few years just like yours. Our lawmaking body also spends money on themselves. You have to realize that it is nearly impossible for every citizen to vote on every issue. It would be nice but its not really going to happen. Corruption is in every country no political system lacks corruption and every political system is flawed but democracy is still the best thing anyone has thought of.

[brainless 0]

be happy with your newly gained capitalism and shut up ... just kidding :PI'm one of those Germans who had the luck to visit parliament quite a few times during the last years (I guess it's something like 4 or 5 times within the last 4 years) and you can learn some really interesting things: The debating in front of the cameras is almost completely staged; the real debate happens behind closed doors (so it's not surprising that the main hall is mostly empty and those who are there usually have better things to do than paying attention)......a democracy which is supposed to be "good" (whatever that means ... that's stuff for another thread) can, temporarily, a strictly hierarchical democracy, with one institution creating rules for the entire state and perhaps some institutions for smaller regions [here in Germany we have the federal government; the states; counties and communities; most of the power is shared between federal and state-governments].well, there's the problem: Many politicians make politics their job and lose contact to the real world. It's not hard to do so with a salary of about 10,000 Euros per month [that's about ten times as much as the average working person gets and about 40 times what is considered to be the poverty line].On the other side, there are people who actively participate in groups which aim for the common good, not for the good of a few - but as it happened, those who plan to create a grassroots democracy [i.e. a democracy in which the people rule and are not being ruled by a few] usually act on the edge of illegality. People who actively participated in such groups can, even though they were never in contact with police, be denied access to government jobs (such as teaching at public schools) :/We learn: Legality does not mean justice. Justice often equals illegality...

[Saint_Michael 3]

also you have to remember most of europe is still recovering fro mthe communist collaspe in 1989, believe its goign to take a long time for former communist countries to revocer from this, but only if people decide to stand up for it. but you have these terrorist who want power and keep everyone in fear. germany the center stone of the collapse of communism is almost back to its glory but needs to keeping on fighting even though the nazis are making sure that anyone trying to restore its former glory before them slows down to a halt, but times have change and so must people. 1500-1989's are the old ways this is new generation but people want to have the old ways stay intact.but one thing i do agree on is corruption i choose not to vote cuz it doesn't mean anything, everyone knows that bush rigged the election but no one wants to say anything or they be branded like a terrorist and make a big deal over it. or bush pays people off to be quiet.democracy was a dream at one time but now its just a word in boooks no one who has power wants it and they want to keep absolute rule over other people.but our world leaders should know that one day a revolution could come and change it forever, no one is immune to this so one day china, north korea and cuba will topple and once this is done communism will be truley dead. All the small contries that believe in this will fall quickly and thus be for the people and not for one person.

[adriantc 0]

In the West there are people who care not only for themselves, but for all. The worst thing is that we don't have someone to vote. Also corruption is so rooted into the system that it is almost impossible to eliminate in just a few years without taking extreme mesures. Of course corruption exists everywhere in the world, but in Romania it has been taken to the level of a national sport. The are people who made millions of dollars from the buying of state factories and buildings (as you know before '89 everthing belong to the state) for very small amounts of money by bribing the ones who were in charge of the contracts. If you need something from a public institution it am 99% sure that a bigger or small bribe will do the trick.

[ongnoai 0]

but one thing i do agree on is corruption i choose not to vote cuz it doesn't mean anything, everyone knows that bush rigged the election but no one wants to say anything or they be branded like a terrorist and make a big deal over it.  or bush pays people off to be quiet.

 

democracy was a dream at one time but now its just a word in boooks no one who has power wants it and they want to keep absolute rule over other people.

211582[/snapback]

Hi there, folks.

 

Some might remember what Ole' Winston Churchill said about democracy : "The worst of all systems, exception taken of all the others"

 

Now, I used to live until 17 in a "dictatorial democracy", meaning a dictature mocking up most ways of democracy. Believe it or not, it felt like having more elbow room than living today in a self-righteous, sanctimonious Western democracy.

 

Also, it feels a bit sour-tasting that bush is by far not the first one to doctor elections, if that can be proven at all. We know by now that JFK' father, Joe, contributed the decisive ballots for his son on having mafiosi touring the retirement homes in Michigan to bring old people in limousines to vote for the bright young man. And was that the first time it occured? Dunno.

 

What I'm sure of, though, is there are a lot of people who can't be fooled about the real taste of democracy. They just have got to stand their grounds, and keep insisting for the real *darned* thing to come. No more, no less. I hope that'll work in the long run. Otherwise, we're all as good as dead meat for politicians to play around with like mad hyenas would.

 

Cheers, folks

[Glockmeister 0]

Democracy is probably the best type of government we have thought of at the moment. As much as it may have it's bad points, most other governments are a hell of a lot more worse then democracy.If you really have any issue about your government, use your free speech. Join a political party, hold protests, talk to your representative, that sort of thing. Really, be involved with your government, rather then just sit and complain.

[Plenoptic 0]

You are not talking about democracy. Democracy is a good thing. The ideal democracy will have every person in the country vote on every subject. In the real world it works by representation. You vote for your representative to speak on your behalf in the governemnt.

The thing is democracy isn't what it should be. Sure we vote on what we believe in but do you see presidents that don't have a wife who's father owns a Heinz. In order to be a major part of the political system you have to have wealth and good stories. A lot of it is lies. Of course if it was free to run for president everyone would be president but you should be a smart person who would do well for our country. They should make new rules for running for president. Like you have to have 2000 people nominate you. I think it 1000 right now. Our voting system is good though and it gives the people what the majority of us want. I do think we need to change the way politics work a bit.

[boyCradle 0]

Democracy is good, but most of the time the people abuse their power to rule. The people rallies all the time, thinking it is their right to rally everyday. They shout and rally for their leaders to step down. My country is now planning to shift to a parliamentary system, the congressmen and senators are debating on the bill. But I guess, there would be not much difference unless the leader themeselves change. And the country people should as well have positive views on everything, because they blame the government for everything. They haven't really asked themselved what they have done to their country to boost the economy.

[xxbabygirlxx 0]

Yea why would i want my government system any other way..i dont want my government telling me what to do and i have like 0 say in the matter. I thikn the media plays a huge role in keeping our politians in line. I would never want to be like a society like china or something like that. Where they have 0 human rights..and limitations of their freedoms.

[morosophos 0]

Aristotle worried about this very thing. He rebuked democracy because he feared (or rather, knew) that the people would use their new power for selfish reasons and a corrupt redistribution of wealth. It really isn't to anyone's advantage when all candidates for election have only their own interests in mind, at which point there is no true difference between the candidates and you might as well vote at random.On capitalism... usually only a good idea if there is an unselfish people and not a great amount of poverty. So simply overthrowing a communist regime is not a good idea. You need more than that. And according to Marx, capitalism inevitably leads to socialism. Already in the United States, we are experiencing a growing rift between the rich and the poor. Then again, "western nations" are also becoming more socialist, so is this rift caused by socialism, or is socialism being caused by the rift? Perhaps the only way to discover the answer is observation as time progresses.

[adriantc 0]

morosophos I totaly agree with your thinking. I also think Marx is right... as I see it socialism is good, even communism is good (without the secret service, rationalization of food and with a free press... and more important without the cult of personality of the leaders). In other words I like 2 things from the communists:1. people where afraid of the long hand of the law; nowadays in my country you have to watch your back everytime you get outdoor2. the fact that there where no private property; I can't remember now, but there was a philosopher in the antiquity that said that private property is the root of all evilStill I cannot understand why there is nobody interested in the good of the people and not at the good of their own. Or maybe such people never get to power...

[anarchyboard88 0]

hahaha, democracy and good dont belong in the same sentence.. i think democracy (especially in the US) is a JOKE!. The ONLY time when people get some sort of say, is when a HUGE mass of peoples all contact or protest something, and the only reason they listen is because they dont want a national embarrassment on their hands. Ideal democracy has NO standing against IDEAL communism... sharing, equality amongst all, reaping what the nation sow'd.. that sounds way better than listening to a president and his league of idealists that never produce results rant on and on and on.. You may have escaped a corrupted communism which turned to dictatorship, but you entered a new dictatorship, its just masked with promises and ideas. Well i hope you find a better answer than my extra ranting... Pe@cE

[CroSpartacus 0]

Democracy always brings corruption. Politicians look for ways to find benefits for themselves and this is what brings scandals. I think that if a nation has a good leader it will progress, such as the Romans with Julius Caesar or the Prussians with Bismarck. The problem is that you can't find many good strong leaders.