Is god worthy of worship (or 'Why I'm not a christian')

[iGuest 3]

truest of the true :idea:

[iGuest 3]

I would love to believe in something higher than us, But i cant.Maybe i think too logically! or im thick as a brick and cant see the truth

[iGuest 3]

try something lower just kidding, but animism is about being relations with all beings so we don't think like higher and lower beings, just different varieties

[iGuest 3]

But what do you think about all that stuff going on in the states about them trying to ban/hinder teaching of evolution and replace it with teaching "logical creation" or something along the lines saying that god created everything.I know that this is a flammable topic, so let's all respect eachothers' opinions.I didn't want to create a whole new topic because this is almost the same and just in case this post gets no response.

[iGuest 3]

from an Aboriginal world view both are incompatible with us but we don't want to ban anyone - everyone has their own way, that's what we think. Just don't push it on us. We don't push our way on others. We just try to protect it FROM others. Shouldn't need to though.

[iGuest 3]

But what do you think about all that stuff going on in the states about them trying to ban/hinder teaching of evolution and replace it with teaching "logical creation" or something along the lines saying that god created everything.

Ive never heard of that, is it true? I dont think so.

[iGuest 3]

But what do you think about all that stuff going on in the states about them trying to ban/hinder teaching of evolution and replace it with teaching "logical creation" or something along the lines saying that god created everything.

Ive never heard of that' date=' is it true? I dont think so.[/quote']

 

Well, yes, i've seen it on TV and read about it in the net.

They want to (and have here and there done it already) change the books to teach the children that god actually created life. How things went on from that, varies from book to book. Some say god just created the big bang and then cells etc. developed as they (scientists) say they did. Others claim that god created humans etc.

 

I hope someone on the forum closer to the topic (perhaps living in the states) can tell us more.

 

Personally, i disagree with that idea. I believe it goes against the basic idea of keeping the church apart from the government and so on.

[iGuest 3]

The US of A is a complex place when states can each have different jurisdictions over all kinds of things including from grade school teaching to the official languages of the state to capital punishment. Crossing those interstate borders sure must be interesting. Here's a good site about evolution/creation debate.

[iGuest 3]

I don't have a problem with Geancanah writing this, it is his opinion and I have told people mine before.... however, I believe that many of these issues can be cleared up, expecially those concerning hell and satan when you understand that hell is not a place of eternal torture ruled by the devil, however I am going to post a reply and rebuttal to all of this once I have written it up....in response to the idea of christians teaching in schools that God is the creator, though that is what I personally believe, I don't think that any explanations of creation should be taught, since it is still so widely debated, and teaching it in school is just forcing it on kids... I think this applies to every explanation for how we came to be.....( by that I mean that I don't think evolution should be taught either, for example i was told by Science teachers that evolution is fact not theory...yet it has never been indesputably proven, in fact I would say it hasn't been proven in any way) I want to explain creation to others and let them decide, not force it on them, if they don't want to know then I won't make them hear

[iGuest 3]

You're entitled to your opinion - ill argue the case against some of it now, but as you've written a long post i may have to come back to finish this.

the leading of which is the idea of a higher power is not probable in light of current scientific data.

Scientific data doesnt prove anything. It doesnt make Christ less probable... it offers an alternative, but equally likely theory. That is the scientific position, and science does not back up atheism.

The second of which is I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power.  

The state of the world reflects peoples choice not to follow the loving and merciful creator. When people dont choose love, they choose other things seen in the world now.

Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship.

That is probably because you have not 'found' the biblical God.

He is a very real friend to a lot of people, and if one day you do find him, then you will see why he is fit for worship.

This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible.  

Scientific facts dont disprove the bible, because 'facts' imply 'proof' but proof is impossible wheere alternatives exist, and alternatives are always present.

We are online, in a purely textual world, and people still have the audacity to complain about reading.

lol, so true

Speaking as a father, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm. Why? Simply because he is my creation.

I would say that even with hell's existance, God would not 'wish' to harm her either, God is defined in the bible as very loving. It is possible that God can Love someone while not allowing them to heaven.

why then would god condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith?

If you look at this slightly differently it becomes clear.

1) Hell is a lack of God, as it is diametrically opposed to heaven - which is God's home. Therefore, Hell is the opposite of the 'greatest thought magnified', as God cannot look upon sin.

I suspect you knew that...

2) Why does God allow some into heaven?

The bible says God looks at the heart - he allows in those who share his view, those who are God like in compassion and love and forgiveness etc....basically, those who are willing to do what he wants them too. Otherwise heaven would be full of all the same people we have on earth - it wouldnt be any different.

3) Therefore....those whose hearts arnt willing to do what God wants must go somewhere else.

God's love is illustrated by his willingness to inform us of the situation.

^that is not proof of truth, it is the biblical scenario with regards to hell, which is possible, if not proven here.

There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse eye for an eye. excessive.)

In Christianity the context of an eye for an eye causes it to say the complete opposite.

After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of fire and brimstone. How many of us would want a parent such as that? Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a god so cruel!

You are saying: 'Because he pitches those who disbelieve in him into fire, i will chose not to believe in him because i dont like that scenario'

If you dont believe in him, then the logic stops before 'he pitches those who disbelieve in him into fire' because 'he' doesnt exist.

If you dont think him worthy of worship, then you must have done 2 things 1) you must believe in him and 2) you are making the conscious choice to be thrown into a lake of fire, despite being given fair warning.

I.E. it becomes your choice, not Gods, as soon as you believe he exists, therefore God can only take the blame for giving you free will, which i am greatful for.

How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences?  

Free will means you are free to make your own choices - in everything. If you dont believe in the consequences, why fear them.

Unless you believe in fate, you cannot deny that you have free will - as you are able to make choices on things.

Therefore any argument on 'why do we have free will' is irrelevant, we have it and have to live with it, (unless you believe in fate). It doesnt add to the case of not worshipping God, at its heart it just states the obvious.

However, you dont have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesnt matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others.  

Some schools of thought suggest that people from a variety of religions do know Christ in different forms. I.E. someone who is really truely virtuous, and loving - may actually know Christ without thinking themselves Christian. I think it stems from where the bible often refers to God being Love.


I'll get to the rest later.

Ultimately, people find Christ in the form of a relationship and friendship. Books like the bible confirm and strengthen this faith, but rarely found it alone. I know i personally have seen Christ act in ways i can no longer doubt, but accept others have not yet.

[iGuest 3]

i now need to wonder if i should have mentioned that about 10 years ago, i was christian, had found god, and was saved.

[iGuest 3]

i now need to wonder if i should have mentioned that about 10 years ago, i was christian, had found god, and was saved.

Could i ask some questions?
1) what changed your mind?
2) if it was a subtle change of heart against God, has your disbelief of him grown rapidly since? if so, why?

I will say the following generally - i know nothing about your experiences, but this is a general summation from some people i've known. It is by no means the whole story - everyone has an individual life, and is subject to different experiences and understandings.

There are a lot of levels to being a Christian. Sometimes people slip, and choose to turn their backs on God, sometimes they were never fully saved in the first place. Other times people just keep going deeper, and live on the faith that leads them.

The church often talks of 3 conversions.

1) to Christ
2) to the Church
3) to your purpose

People who have christ and support the church, but dont follow his purpose are constantly choosing their own will over Christs - what God wants comes a poor second to them, and as a result, their lives dont change much.

Unless someone has reached the stage of living right on the edge of their own capabilities, and trust Christ to carry them further and stretch them ...then falling away isnt rare.

I personally believe that we are in a generation of people who are falling away from Christ, but that those who stick with Christ are, for the first time since the early church, truely alive spiritually.

I think that we now look back at the times when people were forced to go to church, and want to run from it - and this dynamic that quite rightly encourages people to make their own choice, is for the first time in a logn time, making people honest about what they personally think.

I hope, that while this continues, it will leave a core of christians who no longer are subject to the same criticisms as those who claim to be christian but arnt, and eventually, we will one day have the good reputation that the actiosn the bible encourages should deserve.

[iGuest 3]

i now need to wonder if i should have mentioned that about 10 years ago, i was christian, had found god, and was saved.

what do you mean when you say that you were saved? do you mean that you "accepted" Christ into your life and became saved?? could you pleas explain?

[iGuest 3]

I admit it, I don't want to and will not read all the posts you've made or will make...

 

 

So all I'm asking you is to keep the flames low.

We wouldn't like our members to create tensions on this forum... :!:

[iGuest 3]

lots and lots and lots of words here but they seem mostly OK with each otherjust want to note that words don't go too far with animist peopleswe believe personal experience of nature and the world is the best teacher of spiritual things