sukhi

Mr. Universe from India ?? IMPOSSIBLE !!

]

yes it is true he has earned this in some category for junior or weight but he has !

I would like you to post where i said i did not believe in carbon dating and where i said that drawings prove the existence of a written character. Me stating that radioactive carbon dating does not prove the existence of Ashoka does not imply that i don't believe in carbon dating.

 

So you say that the Christian missionaries who all the time were trying to make all Indian great people mythology would accept the existence of Ashoka when they found ample proof for the same ? I don think so. Christian cult people never ever will belive anything that is not 110% sure. Ashoka is proven by all scientific methods one being radiocarbon dating.

 

God does not have to come down to earth to make it a better place. If He had to come down because there is no other way, wouldn't that mean He is less than Himself? Why does an all-powerful God require to come down in order to save? The arrival of Jesus and the crucifixion of Jesus is merely God being consistent with what He had declared in the past. God does not fail to save, nor does He choose to save everyone. Saving a person does not imply a better world.

 

By the same logic that why God who is so powerful wouldnt come down himself then why does the SAME POWERFUL God need a broker ( messiah /prophet ) on his behalf to come down ? you cant apply 2 different logics to same God. are you understanding logic ?

 

 

Hindusim has more precise dates than Biblical date based on astrnomical and moon date not just a obscure date which begins with a non -existing person Jesus. Astrnomy was btw invented in India. We have much more depth in dates than simple tribal solar calenders. Go and study Indian Astronomy and dates of all Rama , Krishna clearly mentioned in the scriptures.

you are mistaken my freind because you have not read anything other than the Bible. Hindu Scriptures detailing God's human form birth are in depth written in the their biographies and also these places exist in India.

 

Sai baba did many miracles and he changed lives of lakhs of people and hence he is on par with Jesus. the system of miracle is considered a deception now. So saying Jesus did miracles and hence he is divine etc makes him more look like the brand of miracle - workers who are increasingly being terms fakesters.

 

Sorry All your arguments are illogical and full of lies. I am not interested in debating with a liar and a cultist. It is just a waste of time debating logic to an illogical guy.

Will you please attempt to figure out what B.C .and A.D. (''Before Christ'' and ''After Christ'') mean in relation to the calendar.

 

Thank you.

 

From Wiki :

 

Anno Domini (abbreviated as AD or A.D., sometimes found in the irregular form Anno Domine) and Before Christ (abbreviated as BC or B.C.) are designations used to label years in the Julian and Gregorian calendars.

 

they are used in Julian and Gregorian calendars. Christian Sources again. Same is with Krishna who has existed around 5100 BP acording to Hindu Calender so still we are on same plank : Both exists but no archealogical proof from this argument that you gave of B.C and A.D.

 

Sorry they found out that BC and AD are not reliable in the scientific and historical community and hence read below :

 

From Wiki :

 

Before Present (BP) years is a time scale used in archaeology, geology, and other scientific disciplines to specify when events in the past occurred. Because the ''present'' time changes, standard practice is to use 1 January 1950 as the arbitrary origin of the age scale. For example, 1500 BP means 1500 years before 1950, that is, in the year 450 AD.

 

We use this scale now as it is more scientific. Doesnt prove Jesus Existed historically in fact your arguments are further weaking the existence of Jesus.

 

So do you accept that Krishna Existed ?

Not a chance. Krishna no more existed that the man in the Moon.

Thanks Sheffield. I wanted you to post this. My argument rests there . Jesus Doesnt exist. Figure out how

You cannot be serious, unless you are telling me Krishna is the Hindu name for Jesus. In which case you need to worship Jesus who was real.

No I am not saying Krishna is Jesus. I am saying do you agree that Krishna Existed ?

We all are thinking the same manner .we all hate corruption ,terrorism and all this stuff. we all hate when the farmers suicide.we all have a fever boiling.it is already late and have to work.Patience ,will power, unity, interactions on a large scale all this is needed.All those cultural differences, old grudges have to be forgotten.I think war is to be broken in the nation by the people before someone else again invades. YOung minds arestill not ruined and are yet not so evil we have to use them before the evil destructs them.

Yes totally true. But we have to get out of our comfort homes and do the work. The evil want us to keep cribbing and do nothing as the saying goes : the only think evil needs to triumph is that the good do nothing. We have to get out of our homes , help needy people , do protests against corruption , spread awareness, donate money to organisations who work and not just want to be in AC rooms with the money that is given to them.

You want archaeological proof!
Christianity is the teaching of Jesus. No Jesus, no Christianity. You want proof of Him, what can't speak can't lie

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

I dont want to read all the crap that you have posted. It is just to confuse people.
My question is simple : Do you agree that Krishna Existed if Jesus exists only in the domain of Literature of the believers ?

Please dont quote me sites ..I can quote you more that he doesnt exist .. so answer my question first Did Krishna exist .. If your answer is No then Jesus also did not exist.

From Wikipedia :

 

The Universe is very large and possibly infinite in volume; the observable matter is spread over a space at least 92 billion light years across.^[17] For comparison, the diameter of a typicalgalaxy is only 30,000 light-years, and the typical distance between two neighboring galaxies is only 3 million light-years.^[18] As an example, our Milky Way Galaxy is roughly 100,000 light years in diameter,^[19] and our nearest sister galaxy, the Andromeda Galaxy, is located roughly 2.5 million light years away.^[20] There are probably more than 100 billion (10¹¹)galaxies in the observable universe.^[21] Typical galaxies range from dwarfs with as few as ten million^[22] (10⁷) stars up to giants with one trillion^[23] (10¹²) stars, all orbiting the galaxy's center of mass. Thus, a very rough estimate from these numbers would suggest there are around one sextillion (10²¹) stars in the observable universe; though a 2003 study by Australian National University astronomers resulted in a figure of 70 sextillion (7 x 10²²)^[24].

now from the last line the no of stars are (7 x 10²²) and hence the probablity of life existing only on earth is inverse of it which would be around 10^-22 which is a very very low number. Going by this mathematical logic , clearly we have a probablity of life existing only on earth very very verryyyyyy small. why does one want to think that only on earth life exists ?? what special status does earth have it merits life only on earth ??

@Anwii : Nice poem .. it's ryhming is good and even though it is on the negative tone of reality ... it makes for good reading because of the nice rythming and rythmic paragraphs !

Mr. Goenka gives a revolutionary speech where he discusses what is needed to achieve humanity's highest potential.

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

He also mentions of Ashoka the Great which shows how world leaders should be.

 

Truly Inspiring.

And you though the Church has been a very benevolent and peaceful ( that is what God wants all to be ) is ?

 

Read here for the entire story :

 

http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Inquisition.html

The darkest chapters in the history of human civilisation has been charted out by this evil regime called Church.

Whatever you think about Jesus this thread is still about Him.

yo seem to be a freind of Truefusion and have come to pressurise people by repeating the lie again and again and then people will think that a lie is a true.
There is no proof of Christ existing historically. Period. Do you agree to this or not ? I have given enough arguments for it and all know it is true. We are living in the age of reason and your methods of trying to say Christ existed is laughable. So do you agree that if Jesus existed then Krishna existed by the same yardstick of logic that you say : literary sources ? Yes or No i want . I dont want you to do the typical christian way of finding corners and never speaking logic and giving correct answers.

btw your statement of addressing him as Him made your cover open. You are a blind christian cult guy. Sorry to say this but that is true.

Jesus is a good saint i still agree and from the start i have said the same .. but unless archaelogical proof is found ... he is as good as a legend as Krishna or Greek Gods !

This thread is about JESUS.

It is not about Jesus It is about whether Jesus existed Historically. It has been proven by comparative studies ( as the persons who belive Jesus existed and do not belive that other great people from other societies existed) , archaelogical evidence ( none ) : It is proven that Jesus did not exist at all. Because if you base the existence of Jesus on books or gospels or christian sources then the same logic is applied to Rama ( Ramayan is a book that talks about his life and actions and places ). We have to apply logic and prove things when people say our diety existed becoz it is listed in our books and yours not because there is no archaelogical evidence and we dont trust your books .. hence by this logic and this is the only logic that can be applied for such cases ..then Jesus doesnt exist. Maybe we find a edict or a paper written by him then his historical authencity will be proven .. till then he is mythological for me like any other mythological figure.

Nice Essay evilsmiley25. It is to the point and takes practicalities of the issue at hand.Bringing back dinosaurs back to life from DNA doesnt seem plausbile because we havent been able to make even a single life cell till now from DNA lol. and we want to achieve an amphibian form back that was not single celled but a very compilcated organism !!. It is similar to say that : let us go the andromeda galaxy when we havent even crossed the solar system. Cloning has been done.. but creating lifeforms from scratch for single - celled animals which exist should be tried first. I do not know if this morally correct because science doesnt have the element of morality embedded in it.

well more information about the matter which I have just found out about due to my ex making it a point to tell me and send me pictures about it...the 20 year old girl that he is engaged to is now pregnant with his child...Why is it when a couple breaks up one of them decides it is a must to rub things in the others face? But it is just another reason to move one and thank my lucky stars that it isn't me and that I didn't end up with him or pregnant.
tell me what you think

this guy wants to make you sad by showing of his new "booty ". What you can do are 2 things :
1. You get a BF for yourself and show it off to him.
2. You go and congratulate him for getting a kid for himself with a nice greeting card.

Just try the second one and he will surely be getting nightmares after you do the second thing. He will be devastated. In such matters of intangibles , the best way is to make him feel that his actions have no effect on you and that you are still being a well - wisher and that you dont care 2 damn for this girl or his kid or his life. this I am suggesting only because he is trying to offend you with his new girl etc. He is evil and you need to show you are an angel. that would make him go crazy when he sleeps in the night and later on he will be repentant too.

All the best girl !

Okay, i now definitely recommend that you reread my previous posts that you have responded to. Putting words in my mouth and then refuting that is called ''building a straw man.'' It is not surprising that my words would be contradicting in your eyes after you have mixed them up in a way that does not accurately represent what i have said. Perhaps if i could speak in your native tongue you would understand me.

 

Yes, i do find the Abrahamic religions more down to earth, but that is not the only reason why i choose to believe in them. Miracles are not illogical and they do not contradict reality. I do not understand why people believe that they do, for they do not. Having these things does not make it childish. A book need not contain only logic and psychology for it to be mature or not childish. If every book that doesn't contain those things are childish, then do you know just how many books you are calling childish?

 

You asked what authority Jesus had to say what he said. I did not need to prove anything for me to answer your question; i merely told you what Jesus said, what you have asked for. If you do not want me to answer your questions concerning Scripture, then do not ask any questions concerning Scripture. If you do not want to discuss religion, then don't ask any questions concerning it. But we are here to discuss the Bible, because it concerns Jesus.

 

If you say that i have not read the words of Krishna, then you did not say anything that Krishna has said. Why then did you say that Krishna said those things?

 

I do not have anything against the Buddha, nor Krishna; i just don't necessarily agree with them. I have read some of the things the Buddha has said. It was not easy finding some of his words in English, at least for free. But that was a long time ago, back when i was studying karma, dharma and that third word that sounds like the first two but i cannot remember.

 

 

It may very well be a shame that this topic is the first time i've heard of Ashoka. But there are plenty of writings outside of the Bible that talk about Jesus and the Gospels and about the Jews, both from trusted and untrusted sources (e.g. Gnostic texts). Even till this day are people talking about Jesus. But can you tell me why the very books of the Bible are not enough? And according to Scripture, Jesus ascended into Heaven, so if anyone is trying to find his skeleton in some random tomb, they would be working in vain. Even so, no one can prove who the skeleton is without prior knowledge. This prior knowledge is almost always written.

 

It is true that all the people you have mentioned (though you should note that ''Allah'' is merely Arabic for ''God'') could have at one point in time existed. However, their historical descriptions help determine whether or not they really did. I won't deny that Rama, Buddha, Krishna, Zues or Osiris have existed, i will just assert that they could only have been either mere men or fictional characters (even though i do believe there is clear evidence showing that the Greek gods were fictional). It does not matter to me what the Western or Eastern societies think of what i say. Also note that the term ''myth'' does not imply falsehood; that is a misconception. For if myth implied falsehood, then you would not be able to prove any myths and the show Mythbusters would be pointless. It just so happens that most myths are false, but not all.

 

Of course it is possible to make statements and assertions; i never denied that. And the three have lived together in peace before and can live together in peace; it is not impossible for them to do so. If you do not remember the last time, you may visit the countries that they inhabit.

 

What do you mean that makes 2 already? You have only mentioned one god. Yin and yang? Those aren't gods, those are two parts of one symbol; a drawing; a creaton of man. Life on earth and the stability of the universe can very well be due to many factors, but that does not mean there is more than one God. Nothing of the universe can imply more than one God. And, no, it is not possible for there to be a God that created God. As mentioned before, anything created is not God. Likewise, a chain of creators forms a paradox, therefore it is illogical for there to be an infinte line of creators that created the one after it. It may be the case that there exists multiple gods, but the universe can only imply one God.

 

Do you want me to psot when you said that radio carbon dating doesnt prove existence of Ashoka ??. you have clearly said that. So I am not putting words in your mouth.

Infact you are going what we say is tangential with all that you are saying. If you want to debate then debate statement by statement and not just saying a lot of words that confuse the reader. look at what you are saying :

Life on earth and the stability of the universe can very well be due to many factors, but that does not mean there is more than one God. Nothing of the universe can imply more than one God. And, no, it is not possible for there to be a God that created God. As mentioned before, anything created is not God. Likewise, a chain of creators forms a paradox, therefore it is

 

Clearly if the Christian God is the ULTIMATE GOD ( which is easy to prove he is not ) ..then why doesnt he come down to earth in human form or any Form ( as he can do anything ) and make the world a better place. Why does he has to send a son who doesnt achive anything that is peaceful after his death and performs small time miracles which a lot of Saints all over the world have done Like sai baba. Infact if Jesus was god's son then why didnt it happen that peace and honesty came down on human beings. You would surely agree

that after 2000yrs of Jesus existence , man has only degraded much and there is more corruption and wars eveywhere. Clearly you are missing the point. According to me Jesus was a good saint and that many like Jesus come and go. Only when God descends himself which he has done in the form of Krishna , Rama would things be set right for a a long time and then again the same set of events will occur. That is more logical than a unseen HE God who claims he is the final God but doesnt have the guts or mind or will to come down in any form and set an example of how life should be lead.

 

Also we are going away from the discussion. So all of us agree now that Jesus 's existence isnt proven historically till now ?

Government is not supposed to be a parental entity for society.
The government should have no control over what content is on television, because YOU have control over what station your television is tuned to. If YOU don't want to watch certain content then simply do not watch that content, but do not force your ideals on everyone else who may not share them, that is a slippery slope and usually ends in further oppression of the population by the ruling authority, which in turn leads to violent revolt, upheaval of the corrupt government, and revolution.

Again, the government is not there to babysit the people, adults are adults and can determine their own actions regarding what they watch on TV and at the movies, what they put into their bodies (in terms of drugs and alcohol), and how they act toward others. The only role government should play is the enforcement of laws against violence toward others, including physical violence, whether intentional or negligent, and theft.

If you feel the government should act like a parental figure maybe you need to grow up yourself, because you shouldn't need a parental figure past a certain age.

If Government is not the parental entity to the society then who will be ? People : Yes. But governemnt is from the people and hence one cannot say that people are not controlling the government ( it doesnt happen in real life it is the other way round actually ) .. but in any case i feel influencing the government which practically owns everything in a country is the right step. And there are guidelines set by the government to the media for good and morally right potrayal of what the show. I shall post the guidelines too but since the government is corrupt and hence they allow media to pass movies which should be rejected by the censor board but they dont do it because they are paid to get things passed.

"The only role government should play is the enforcement of laws against violence toward others, including physical violence, whether intentional or negligent, and theft."
Well the government would be like this : Ok let the rapes happen and then we will punish them. If that is the only thing they are doing then we dont need government because even people can beat up rapists and that would instill fear. One has to have prevention too. Having a morally good and free medis is necessaty and the government when does this based on the culture of the society they are trying to stop the disease from occuring so i think Government cant just be sitting with noose to hang all these people ONLY. They have to create conditions in the country so that such events dont take place in the first place and media is one of the things that Government can influence to make conditions in society more conducive for woman to live terror - free from men.

I happened across this site by accident. I think most people at the time of Jesus were illiterate and even today if it wasn't for the media I doubt we would have much of a record and Samuel Pepys diary is an example of how scarce written records were even in his day. However I hope this helps a little bit:

 

PAGAN SOURCES

Are full of hatred for example in the "Acts of Pilate", and must have been used in the pagan schools to warn boys against the belief of Christians (Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl.", I, ix; IX, v);

 

 

TACITUS

The testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) states that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickedness and shamelessness; furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime; that these latter were not guilty of arson, though they deserved their fate on account of their universal misanthropy.

 

Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv). The Roman writer confuses the Christians with the Jews, considering them as a especially abject Jewish sect; how little he investigated the historical truth of even the Jewish records may be inferred from the credulity with which he accepted the absurd legends and calumnies about the origin of he Hebrew people (Hist., V, iii, iv) and (Tacitus, Annals, 15, 44)

 

 

SUETONIUS

Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv). In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta . . . . afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero,xvi). The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church. (Clau., xxv).

 

 

PLINY the YOUNGER

Of great importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction. On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition. On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98). Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).

 

 

LUCIAN

In the second century Lucian sneered at Christ and the Christians, as he scoffed at the pagan gods. He alludes to Christ's death on the Cross, to His miracles, to the mutual love prevailing among the Christians ("Philopseudes", nn. 13, 16; "De Morte Pereg"). There are also alleged allusions to Christ in Numenius (Origen, "Contra Cels", IV, 51), to His parables in Galerius, to the earthquake at the Crucifixion in Phlegon ( Origen, "Contra Cels.", II, 14). Before the end of the second century, the logos alethes of Celsus, as quoted by Origen (Contra Cels., passim), testifies that at that time the facts related in the Gospels were generally accepted as historically true. However scanty the pagan sources of the life of Christ may be, they bear at least testimony to His existence, to His miracles, His parables, His claim to Divine worship, His death on the Cross, and to the more striking characteristics of His religion.

 

THALLUS

An ancient historian who confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified.

 

 

MARA BAR-SERAPION

Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King.

 

 

JEWISH SOURCES

The later Jewish writings show traces of acquaintance with the murder of the Holy Innocents (Wagenseil, "Confut. Libr.Toldoth", 15; Eisenmenger op. cit., I, 116; Schottgen, op. cit., II, 667),

 

With the flight into Egypt (cf. Josephus, "Ant." XIII, xiii)

With the stay of Jesus in the Temple at the age of twelve (Schottgen, op. cit., II, 696),

 

With the call of the disciples ("Sanhedrin", 43a; Wagenseil, op. cit., 17; Schottgen, loc. cit., 713),

 

With His miracles (Origen, "Contra Cels", II, 48; Wagenseil, op. cit., 150; Gemara "Sanhedrin" fol. 17); "Schabbath", fol. 104b; Wagenseil, op.cit., 6, 7, 17),

With His claim to be God (Origen, "Contra Cels.", I, 28; cf. Eisenmenger, op. cit., I, 152; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699)

 

With His betrayal by Judas and His death (Origen, "Contra cels.", II, 9, 45, 68, 70; Buxtorf, op. cit., 1458; Lightfoot, "Hor. Heb.", 458, 490, 498; Eisenmenger, loc. cit., 185; Schottgen, loc. cit.,699 700; cf. "Sanhedrin", vi, vii).

 

Celsus (Origen, "Contra Cels.", II, 55) tries to throw doubt on the Resurrection, while Toldoth (cf. Wagenseil, 19) repeats the Jewish fiction that the body of Jesus had been stolen from the sepulchre rather than Jesus was risen from the dead.

 

 

JOSEPHUS Jewish historian (AD 37-100) wrote of Jesus:

"About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man, and He drew to Himself many Jews and when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him. The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day." (Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63 )

 

 

PHLEGON the Gentile Historian

"Phlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus. Origen and Philopon, De. opif. mund. II21

"And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place ..."

Origen Against Celsus

 

 

The historical character of Jesus Christ is also attested by the hostile Jewish literature of the subsequent centuries. His birth is ascribed to an illicit ("Acta Pilati" in Thilo, "Codex apocryph. N.T., I, 526; cf. Justin, "Apol.", I, 35), or even an adulterous, union of His parents (Origen, "Contra Cels.," I, 28, 32).

 

There are many Jewish writings that show traces of acquaintance with the murder of the Innocents (Wagenseil, "Confut. Libr.Toldoth", 15; Eisenmenger op. cit., I, 116; Schottgen, op. cit., II, 667),

 

With the flight into Egypt (cf. Josephus, "Ant." XIII, xiii),

 

With the stay of Jesus in the Temple at the age of twelve (Schottgen, op. cit., II, 696),

With the call of the disciples ("Sanhedrin", 43a; Wagenseil, op. cit., 17; Schottgen, loc. cit., 713),

 

With His miracles (Origen, "Contra Cels", II, 48; Wagenseil, op. cit., 150; Gemara "Sanhedrin" fol. 17); "Schabbath", fol. 104b; Wagenseil, op.cit., 6, 7, 17),

 

With His claim to be God (Origen, "Contra Cels.", I, 28; cf. Eisenmenger, op. cit., I, 152; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699)

 

With His betrayal by Judas and His death (Origen, "Contra cels.", II, 9, 45, 68, 70; Buxtorf, op. cit., 1458; Lightfoot, "Hor. Heb.", 458, 490, 498; Eisenmenger, loc. cit., 185; Schottgen, loc. cit.,699 700; cf."Sanhedrin", vi, vii).

 

 

So significant is Jesus in man's history that the Encyclopedia Britannica has 20,000 words in describing this person, Jesus. His description took more space than was given to Aristotle, Cicero, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Buddha, Confucius, Mohammed or Napolean Bonaparte.

 

Here is a quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth:

"These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."

 

thank you for all your quotes and all of the them are from Christian/western sources . Encyclopedia Britannica is a Christian biased knowledge base which is controlled by

Christians. I am not at all against Jesus. What I am against is the fact that when it comes to analysing other faiths persons , these same people who blindly accept the historcity as if he is an historical figure like Gandhi or Putin ... when it comes to Krishna they say he never existed.

If I have to look at a people then it would be the Jews who would say if Christ Existed and they do not now belive that he existed or any HISTORICAL records were present then :

 

Look below for the Jewish argument :

 

"

 

I was curious if the Jewish religion believes that Jesus ever existed. If not, then what evidence is used to support this belief? Thank you very much for having this medium of information available.

 

Thank you for your question. The fact is that the Jewish religion is as varied in its beliefs as the number of Jewish people in the world.

 

There are some Jewish people that believe that Jesus never existed that he is a legend like Robin Hood or King Arthur. There are others who believe that he existed, but not as the G-d/man savior that Christianity has made him out to be. Many of these believe that he was simply a second-Temple Jewish man with some different perspectives who gained a following, but proved, just as dozens of others had done, to not be the messiah.

 

There are references to someone with his name in the Talmud. However, because of the time at which this man had to have lived, it cannot be the same Jesus.

 

The only proof for the existence of Jesus is the New Testament itself,there is no outside evidence for his existence. Even the often quoted Jewish Historian Josephus passage about Jesus has been proven to be a forgery.

 

Many people claim that the mere fact that Jesus has made such a global impact is proof enough of his existence, but that brings into the argument the impact of Robin Hood, Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, etc. The book of Mormon has the same proof for its existence and christians will tell you its not the truth.

 

But even so, admitting that he existed still does not prove that he was the messiah.

 

http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-1689/did-jesus-ever-exist/

 

"

 

enemities of Jews and Christians apart , why would the Jews not admit that he existed as they agree to existence of Muhammad who was from the same geographical region ?

 

My hunch will be that he existed because without fire there cannot be smoke. clearly Jesus existed but if he existed them so Did Rama , Krishna applying the same logic.

ahahaha Opaque i am sure if you are in India then you should take the help of your mom. Only she can get all the qualities that you need :)Mom's have such underground networks that they can find any girl of any dimensions and qualities for you. I dont know how they manage it but they too good at it and shall sure give you more than 65000 options to choose from

Welcome! Now you can add something to your life's routine, visting Xisto! Hey, you never know, you might even be somewhere near our fearless leader, he is from India too. That would be cool, lots of us here would like the chance to meet him, he has been doing a wonderful job for quite a few years now running this forum. I hear he is looking for a woman too, but I didn't read your profile, so that may not be an option......

thank you for welcoming me. I find the forums informative here. The fearless leader who he is ? what is his ID ?
If he is a male then i am a male and i am not Gay still ahahah .. so marriage with him maybe in next birth ahahah

Thanks for inviting me again !

Very good post Baniboy .. you have answered things that i wanted to and have put logic in the debate.Most of our views are based on self - interest which we tend to call as moral values. But when viewed from totally earth point of view we look at many other factors and not just humans because we are a total system. Population works very well for humans as they have more hands .. they feel they have conquered earth by the law of the more you are the sucessful your species is. But hey we are much less in numbers than bacteria or algae in biomass and numbers So do we say we need to reproduce more and more to make our Ego inflate with the fact that we are everywhere. It wont happen like that. Earth works in cause and effect and many big animals came and went and were reduced to bones by earth. I think humans are no special they are just a species which have been given a temporay home and that our moral values are for our advantage like moral values for any animals are for their advantage !

Perhaps you should reread my statement for sake of clarification, for i have not mentioned the words you claim i have said. I did not say i don't believe in radioactive carbon dating; i did not say drawings prove the existence of anything that has been written about. But i would like to hold you to your assertion that Ashoka's life is more logical than Jesus's life, for i do not know of any part of Jesus's life that is illogical, nor have i ever heard of the life of Ashoka, let alone Ashoka himself (assuming it is a he). But also, tell me, what is the difference between something written in stone and something written on paper, that is, concerning one's existence? If the very writings on paper are not enough to prove someone's existence, why would writings on a stone prove someone's existence? I do not see how anything i have said does not involve logic.

 

A true god is an uncreated, eternal entity. It follows, therefore, that anything created cannot itself be a true god. It can be a false god, a so-called god, but never a true god. Is this not reasonable? I have yet to quote Scripture as evidence for any of my statements, so i do not see any reason to tell me not to quote from Scripture. However, i did provide some Scriptural knowledge in response to what you have requested from me. But that is not to say that Scripture does not contain logic.

 

Simply stating that Jesus doesn't exist doesn't prove that he doesn't. According to Scripture, the authority which Jesus has to do and say things comes from God. He does not have to say whatever he said to be accepted. In fact, just like you are reacting, so is it written of how some people reacted to what Jesus said to them. To any ignorant person, it is blasphemous to state that you have similar authority to that of God. According to Scripture, many people tried to stone him to death for merely making such claims.

 

It is indeed possible to state that Jesus or the God of the Abrahamic religions do not exist. But i find the Abrahamic religions more ''down to earth'' than any other. Why would one claim that there is only one God? The universe can only imply one God; there is no reason to assume that there is more than one God. Multiple gods also seem counter-intuitive, perhaps for that very reason.

 

I would not agree that any statement or law should be universal, for that implies that truth is playful. There can only be one truth to any contradicting matter. It is not possible to say that there are multiple ways to heaven if each way contradicts the other or if one bears no heaven or hell (which itself is likewise a contradiction). If it is true that Krishna said what you said he said, then my doubt that he is any kind of god has further increased.

 

I do not think you are worth debating. All your statements are counter - contradicting. One one hand you say before that i woulkd not take radio carbon dating as evidence and now you say you know all this. Knowing all this doesnt make the point .. The point is whether Jesus existed or not and you have no proof still to give to me other than lofty talks which are based on blind faith. You find Abrahamic more down to earth ??? what is the meaning of that ? Born of Virgin , miracles , coming back after death etc are down to earth things ??? The only down to earth story is of Buddha. No Miracles only plain logic and psychology has been applied. Have you read anything from him ? Also your talk that Jesus had authority from God is not convincing. There are many God Men who claim around the world that they have authority from God even today and they are doing great work too and they have millions of followers too. So the chosen one can be anyone. Also you have not read Krishna's work and hence please dont comment on something that you have not read.

We are not here to discuss religion which you keep bringing in. We are here to discuss whether Jesus existed historically and all here agree that he did not exist histroically. We are not here discussing the bible. We can do that in another thread and trust me Bible has good and bad .. lies and truths like most of the other religious books. Bible infact I dont even consider to be a highest moral book because it is so childish to read in front of Buddha's work or Krishna's Bhagvat Gita. I will start a thread for the same in sometime. Also one last question i Like Jesus can you publicly admit that you have same feelings for Buddha ?

But when the political conditions so worse and we have the majority of sick politicians..what can a single person do.(Baba Ramdev)When the reality will be brought all will go against him.Anything can happen to him, he can be murdered, or can be involved in a scam.All the evil will unite to destroy his good intentions. A mass entry into politics in needed.We can;t improve our nation even in a decade.I guess a rebirth of this nation is needed.We have to first change the system.Constitutional amendments, law changes, electoral process is to be changed.Indian politics is drastically affected by virus difficult to be improved.I wish one fine day we send all these politicians to an unknown island or for some KALAPANI ; )..We will build a new nation

How does one do all this ? Somebody or more people have to do this. We should go out in the open , network with like - minded people in our free time and do it ourselves. Nature may do it who knows .. But that is ofcourse being superstitious. Clearly it is through the actions of Indians who have to do it. Baba Ramdev is coming in .. what we say he wont do etc etc .. negativity we should avoid on people who are trying to do something. because when we say he wont do it or get killed . .we are on the side of evil then ... isnt it the mind of the evil to say bad things about what good people are trying to do ? There is a boiling fever underneath that can explode anytime and then these ministers would be dead before they realise it. My guess is some major war can tilt the nation to the good.. maybe a war made by the americans after their next market crash ? I dont know if that would be the case because that is all future .. What we can do and truthfully is contribute individally even in their personal space to be with righteousness and also oppose evil in action not just in prayers !

well, very interesting sites sukhi, i didn't see such a thing before even i didn't check them all.
i really think that humanity should do something to save our mother earth. or else we all will suffer, we and our new generation. recycled and using solar cells isn't enough, we really need more effort and come up with new plans and procedures to save what left of our natural resources. hope there are more people nowadays who really care to do something.

Yes WebDesigner .. it is really good cinematography and brings out the truth in a scientific manner. But what we can do it nothing much because earth will gives it's feedback always to make sure humans get a piece of their own crap ( chemcial crap and oil mainly. We can contribute by very small things : Spreading awareness about these issues. Let people know what is happening behind which is the cost we pay for our luxirious lives on earth. Start taking goods produced from your country or region which means there is less carbon footprint.

Go swadeshi which means Go for Local Goods and not some imported ones from other countries. Eat Fresh and less packaged. Use less water.With our drop of wisdom we can still make earth back to the garden of flowers and rivers and mists floating on hills and the birds chirping with their fellow ones. Clearly all is acheivable but we have to DO IT and not just talk about it

This is a travesty.
Women should have the same freedom as men in every regard. Implying that someones dress makes them at fault for becoming the victim of a violent crime such as rape is ignorance and irrationality in the highest regard.

The RAPIST is the criminal, not the women with a low cut dress and high heels. The most beautiful women in the world could walk down a dark alley at 2 in the morning and if she were to be raped the rapist would STILL be 100% wrong. I don't give two shits what the woman is wearing or how she is acting it CANNOT be used to excuse a violent crime against her such as rape.

What ignorance, it makes me ashamed to be a human being to hear people who actually believe this stuff.

It is not about the dress my friend. Let any girl wear anything. It is none of our bussiness to comment on that. We are trying to ask the media that why they are showing vulgar stuff to the public and also not just vulgar stuff ... but violence of Mafia, making them look like DemiGods and we feel that because of the media ( which is a very powerful force for making people think what they think ) there are men who want to and desire to do what is shown in reel life.

Look at the statistics below to understand what a woman goes through when such elements pounce on them and does the Indian Society treats such woman and how the indian judicary makes life difficult to the victim.

http://www.global-sisterhood-network.org/content/view/498/76/
There are many rapists going around and there are several reasons for that that person being a rapist but media ( porno , langauge used in movies for girls etc , the way they dress in movies makes men feel when they see them in streets .. oh ok this must be a game ! ... What we want is a good potrayal of girls from the men's poibt of view rather than just the sexual part of it.

I cant Comment on the western society as their culture is different and I do not know how woman are treated there. I dont understand this .. It is so simple .. the more bad you show the more bad the people become !