Cant Login To Xisto Billing & Support [solved]

[Skepticus 0]

Hi there! I've tried this six ways from Sunday now and I still cant get in there. I had this account quite a while ago under the old system. I couldn't see my existing credit (which I thought was already enough to apply for hosting). So I rummaged around in the documents and found this

http://forums.xisto.com/topic/96232-topic/?findpost=1064394946

I checked my email and password and checked it again and the changed it and changed it back Xisto wont let me in even when I know I am putting in the correct email and password. Also I ask for password reminder, and when it tries to validate the email address I give, it reports "The email address you entered could not be found". Sorry if I missed something, but a gave it a good bash. Any chance we can sort it out? Many grateful thanks in advance.


Skepticus

Edited February 6, 2010 by yordan
added "solved" in the title (see edit history)

[Eggie 0]

did you even register at xisto(<<link)??
you first have to register there with email you registered here in order to get mycents system to work

thanks...Eggie

Edited February 3, 2010 by Eggie (see edit history)

[Skepticus 0]

did you even register at xisto(<<link)??

you first have to register there with email you registered here in order to get mycents system to work

Oh yeah! Thanks Eggie. I did find that this works (after a few more complications in the sign-up process). There is little to explicitly denote that the sign up process is separate (i.e. necessary for existing Xisto members) and both the comments I read through, of similar user difficulties and the instructions I found, only pointed to the same 'billing & support' area and not explicitly to the sign up page as you have done. I assumed because the two accounts are linked (by email at least) that the login process would prompt for any-information, it requires from first time users. The login screen (I kept arriving at the login screen because of another problem) doesn't make any kind of explicit caveat that you need to sign-up first or provide an obvious button or link. There are the obligatory 'login/register' links in the corner (like you would see on any site) and I did find the registration page, but I deliberately disregarded this, as, per my instructions, I had been sent to the login page (I now see that in the instruction post, it does use the word register - but it sends you to a conventional login page nevertheless) [actually that's not exactly correct either, as I explain further on]* and with the implicit understanding that it would recognize my existing account, by using the same email address to sign in. In other places (comments in this forum), I read that we needed to also use the same password (which, as it happens is not true), but taking that at face value, further reinforces the idea that Xisto is operated with linked accounts to the Xisto user accounts database. * Now that I look more carefully, I also notice the link to Xisto in the instructions (where it is instructed you register) is labeled 'Billing & Support Area'...

 

 

Instructions for Existing Members

 

1. Register at our Billing & Support Area and use the same email which is in our Forum Records.

That is linked to a page entitled Portal Home which provides access to a whole range of areas on the site. It is not particularly billing and support oriented, despite the url being directed to a subdirectory of the site called '/billing'. In any case, there is nothing in particular there, that directs the attention to any sign-up process either. Indeed, on the contrary, it appears to be the kind of control screen, that you would ordinarily see if you already had an existing account. None of those icons are for SIGN UP or to 'create a new account', although the less than ominous login/signup links still reside discreetly in the corner. I now realize, that rather than clicking the link in the instructions, I had been using the Billing and Support link, provided in the side bar of the forum. After all, it is also labeled Billing & Support and it IS a link to Xisto, so how could it not be the same? That link leads to the "Portal Home>Client Area" (which is much closer to the mark of a 'billing & support' area) but of course that is not accessible for users who are not signed up (a moot point from my perspective at the time), so the link is redirected to the login page (without explanation of why this is a good place to be under the circumstances). This is what caused most of my confusion. Everything conspired to reinforce the assumption, that existing users already have an account with Xisto and that you only need to log-in. This is increasingly becoming a standard with shared LDAP access providing the opportunity to create/import user accounts with a basic subset of user details, at first login time. That is true, even among unrelated sites. So the need to create new accounts explicitly, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

 

In summary: Whether I am being directed to a portal which displays a user, access control panel, or I am sent to a generic login screen, I have no overt, overriding stimuli, to disabuse me of the understandable misapprehension, that I should have no need to create a whole new account from scratch. Meanwhile there is quite a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence, to support and reinforce that misapprehension. If the only reason I am on this page, is to click on that insignificant link in the corner and fill out the form on the page it takes me to, why then, would I not have been sent to that page in the first place? No. It surely couldn't be that I was meant to find and use that link, could it? As that defeats the whole purpose of hypertext, to take you precisely to the specific documents you need directly, and certainly not not a conceptually unrelated page that happens to give an incidental, nondescript link that you would have to have been expected to find and use. Besides which, this very same register link, the only one there that leads to that page, would still be there regardless of which part of that whole website I was sent. Its a standard page element in the template used for every page. As such, it's not obviously or particularly relevant to any page, by the implicit notability of it's it's inclusion.

 

What I would expect, short of being deliberately sent to the precise location where I am required to arrive, is at the very least, to to be sent to a page where the point of my attention, is overtly being directed at something unmistakably unique to that page, or at least highly atypical (in terms of information baring content) on the scale of the whole website. I would expect it to be 'made for differentiation' to stand out by some combination of size, position, colour/contrast, movement or even by having some boobs stuck to it. The point is, I have to be able to notice it, as more obvious than the most trivial elements there and I would expect it to be something I couldn't have otherwise found, on every single page or even most other parts of the site. I should also expect it to be poignantly relevant to the task in hand. but what will be relevant is subject to the visitors prior knowledge. The target, or point of my focus, should certainly at the very least, somewhat more than a small, discretely placed link, that is a totally generic or default element of every page on the site.

 

Given that the visitors prior set of knowledge (required for the assimilation of relevance), includes the self evident fact that they are not in actual fact ON the sign up page, and that there is nothing especially relevant to the signing up process on this page (compared to any other page that is), that the chance you have been sent here to sign up, if you didn't know any better, would now plummet towards zero. Whatever I have been sent here for, should be especially relevant to this page and should be one of the more obvious elements on this page. If at the point, you arrived on one of these pages (either the login or the portal page) and you were not absolutely sure, that your mission was to Join up (that is by creating a new account), you would surely at this point, have to become convinced otherwise. Neither the link given in the instructions, nor the link using the same name in the sidebar are the desired destination for creating a new account, nor are either of them links to pages that are even slightly more relevant to this task than average.

 

I feel that the very fact of not being sent precisely to the register page, serves as strong evidence that I was not required, or more specifically actually required not to join up that way. It was implicitly ruled out, by being precluded from any explicit guidance at the very point where such explicit guidance would be most expected and prudent (practically essential), as well as the fact that I have an account at this (Xisto) site, as well as the fact that it is possible on some sites, to register an account from existing ones at login time. The fact that from my actual let's say - 'place of arrival', the real destination, is so throughly trivial and inconspicuous, that it seems highly unlikely that conventional registration from the registration page, was the intended action. This connection just seems so incredibly counterintuitive. I hope I'm not going crazy. At least; that is, I hope it's not just me.

 

In the instructions, it might be helpful to specify that you need to create a new and separate user account by signing up. The word 'register' can mean to simply nominate, come forward, or apply for inclusion. I'm well aware of it's context as a synonym on the Internet for 'join up', but it's also becoming redundant as a separate process as joining up can be done while logging in, especially where admins/developers intend for two user groups to be consolidated or mirrored. Although I do admit, I probably lost sight of the precise intent of my instructions, while at the same time, I went sailing via that link in the forum side bar, to "Billing & Support" AKA the - "Portal Home>Client Area", arriving at the wrong destination X 2, only to find a login screen. Considering that we are expected to use our existing email account (commonly used as the unique ID factor to synchronize accounts), the temptation to begin assuming this is a 'register by login' LDAP type operation is overwhelming.

 

Along with that, this login screen of Xisto, might also provide some clear indication, that if you have been directed here by a client (in the legal not the IT/networking sense - i.e. a customer or partner of Xisto), who uses this software, you do still need to create a new, separate user account, even if you already have one with the associated client. Or perhaps rather than being directed to the user portal screen, the instructions could provide the link to the account creation/sign-up page. Perhaps for consistency sake, the words 'billing & support' should always link to the same destination. Again for consistency sake, a Link should be labeled with the title (i.e. one single unique title) of the destination page it targets, which (if you are privileged to develop or modify said document) should be clearly and prominently identified in a predictable, visually consistent way (as in: "Portal Home>Client Area" as the definitive (for human/end-user purposes) identity of that page. It should also accurately and unambiguously, identify the nature of the content; which, if well laid out, should reflect distinct functional or conceptual categories that make intuitive sense. Well, So much for the ideal world.

 

Not that these ideals aren't the case here in general, nor that I wouldn't ever overlook these things myself, but The 'billing & support' label is being used in links a bit inconsistently for two different targets (three if non Xisto members are counted) and the distinction could be more overtly clarified between, Signing In and creating a NEW account by going to the Xisto Register page, which could be alternatively labeled JOIN UP or the Create New Account Page. I hope that doesn't sound too pedantic and I should know better than to get lost the way I did, but sometimes I think I behave a bit like a clueless newbie, just because I may anticipate things are more likely to be made with newbies in mind. The more we are given the more we tend to take for granted. In fact, when I was a kid, we had to do our Google searches on horseback. No? OK. Don't believe me then. I also deal with an attention disorder whereby, if I have glossed over the precise details (as I often do), I can make up for it, by habitual inference from evidence, of estimated probability; kind of 'induction on the fly', meant to produce well reasoned assumptions.

 

To be quite fair, I should also be more careful to read the instructions in detail, then follow them carefully and use the links given, as well as relying less on my assumptions, however intuitively reasonable and reinforced by circumstantial evidence they may seem to be. Perhaps I should also cut down on salt and fatty foods, walk more and put some clothes on, before I go out to check the mail box. Nobody's perfect. To quote a classic line from 'The Importance of being earnest' - Oscar Wilde:

âCharity my dear Miss Prism. Charity. None of us are perfect. I myself am peculiarly susceptible to drafts.â

 

The foregoing is all just by the way of constructive criticism of course. Please don't take it as a grievance. I like to analyze the causes of my confusion and for the sake of documentation, that it may help others (even if only that minuscule minority, who may be as easily confused as I am ). I was once the forumadmin on a very big board too, so I do appreciate the effort and value that is provided here by the team and many thanks are well deserved for such great service.

 

Regards Skepticus.

[Eggie 0]

oh my god...thats amazingly big post...i don't have time right now to read it all,but i saw you thanked me,and that all i want to hear i had problems with registering to their site...the problem was that i didn't see register button...i looked all over the place...the put it in the upper right corner,and its almost invisible,they should put that button somewhere else so its more visible...Thanks...Eggie

[yordan 10]

In any case, there is nothing in particular there, that directs the attention to any sign-up process either.

Huh? How do you name the link at the upper-right edge, saying

Xisto - Web Hosting (Xisto) Please Login or Register

This "Please Login or Register" is a standard way for such portals saying "if you already have your login and password please click login or if you don't have your login yet pleased click Register in order to obtain a login and a password".

By the way, did you succeed loggin in, finally?

Else I will try to make an also rather long post in order to explain my way of thinking about this ?

Regards

Yordan

[Skepticus 0]

QUOTE

In any case, there is nothing in particular there, that directs the attention to any sign-up process either.

Huh? How do you name the link at the upper-right edge, saying

Xisto - Web Hosting (Xisto) Please Login or Register

You might like to read my words again yordan, and notice that what I actually said was "...nothing in particular there, that directs the attention to any sign-up process". I didn't say there is nothing there that provides access to any sign-up process. There's kind of a difference between those two statements you know. I do take that as an innocent misreading of my words; an honest oversight or misunderstanding. That does however demonstrate how easy it is to read one thing and think another. If I had been more mindful of the one word in the instructions 'Register' (and interpreted it as Join Up - i.e. meaning I have to create a new account), I might have avoided this whole confusion. My original error was as innocent as your trivial misapprehension of my words above. I have honestly accepted my part in the misunderstanding. My post was intended to elaborate on the various factors that exacerbated it and made it worse. In hindsight, there are a couple of fairly major pitfalls.

 

It's all too easy to have our comprehension misdirected, while we have preconceptions about what we should expect. I understood that pre-linked accounts are becoming commonplace and that I was being asked to register with my existing email account (and somebody also mentioned password). That combined with the fact that registrations are now often done directly from the login screen, combined with the link I followed, from the side bar (which like the link in the instructions, is also labeled 'Billing and Support'), actually lead me to the login screen, all contributed to reinforce my misconception. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I was set up with some very strong reinforcement and inadvertent pitfalls to confirm and support my misconception. It was my own lapse in comprehension to begin with, that gave me the wrong expectation, but a couple of factors in the instructions and on this site only serve to exacerbate this error. For starters the 'Billing & Support' link in the instructions takes you to the portal. Whereas the 'Billing & Support' link in the forum side bar takes you to a subpage, but only if you are logged in, otherwise you are directed to a Login screen. For the longest while this redirection to the the login page, had me convinced that I was expected to login (and implicitly, that it should recognize me, as I am expected to use the email from my Xisto user account). I wouldn't have been on the login page in the first place, if the link in the instructions was not labeled 'Billing & Support' (which is a poor choice of label for either registration or the portal) and if instead, it was a link to the actual registration page, instead of the portal which has nothing in particular to do with registration.

 

I have explained my misgivings about those register/login links, in absolutely excruciating detail, for fear that this point would be lost. Did you happen to read my whole post? I know it was exceedingly long, as I struggled to explain the misunderstanding, without it being taken the wrong way. Seems I might have failed. There are a couple of key points and this was one of them.

 

If the only reason I am on this page, is to click on that insignificant link in the corner and fill out the form on the page it takes me to, why then, would I not have been sent to that page in the first place? No. It surely couldn't be that I was meant to find and use that link, could it? As that defeats the whole purpose of hypertext, to take you precisely to the specific documents you need directly, and certainly not not a conceptually unrelated page that happens to give an incidental, nondescript link that you would have to have been expected to find and use. Besides which, this very same register link, the only one there that leads to that page, would still be there regardless of which part of that whole website I was sent. Its a standard page element in the template used for every page. As such, it's not obviously or particularly relevant to any page, by the implicit notability of it's it's inclusion.

This "Please Login or Register" is a standard way for such portals saying "if you already have your login and password please click login or if you don't have your login yet pleased click Register in order to obtain a login and a password".

Yes, granted. Bur the fact of it being the standard way to provide access to the all important registration process, does not make the place I was specifically sent particularly relevant to the registration process. Nor does the fact that those links are there at all, make either of them any more relevant in this context. This is not just a standard for portals either. As I tried to explain. Those links would be there no matter which part of the website I had been sent to. They are standard parts of the template that display login / logout / register links depending on your present status.

 

If I am to be understood, you will need to take notice; my primary concern was not about the nature of those links, how standard they may be etc, etc. Nor if they should or shouldn't be there. The point I tried so earnestly to make and reiterate and clarify, with such diligent pains to qualify the context of my constructive criticism, was that this place (i.e. The Portal Page) is nothing special or particularly relevant to the registration process. If registration was even on par with the most relevant things you might navigate or be sent specifically to this page to do, then it would require at least the prominence of one those eleven icons, which are actually the focus and intent of this page; presenting all the main activities, that you might have come/been directed here to do as apposed to any other place.

 

Again, there is no issue with the login/register links, or their inconspicuous lack of predominance on this page. The page is designed as it is, for what it is intended to do. The issue is why I would be sent to that page, rather than a page where the relevance of the registration process IS the predominant feature. I didn't point out the inconspicuous nature of the links to suggest that they should be more conspicuous, or that that method of presentation or layout was not satisfactory. The point once again, is that as a destination for visitors who are being ushered to register (i.e. join up), it is not a very good choice. The significance of the register link in this context, is actually worse than simply irrelevant, because it is not unique to, particularly relevant to, nor is the process it links to notably emphasized as being especially significant in the contents of this page.

 

I tried to explain that this lack of relevance, is ultimately misleading to the point of contradicting the objective for being there. That is... If you were unsure of your purpose, you should rightly tend to have a bias for the most significant, unique and purposeful aspects of that page. Conversely you would tend to rule out the commonplace, trivial and un-purposive factors; those that are not especially made as functionally important, unique and conspicuous factors of this page.

 

The fact that from my actual let's say - 'place of arrival', the real destination, is so throughly trivial and inconspicuous, that it seems highly unlikely that conventional registration from the registration page, was the intended action. This connection just seems so incredibly counterintuitive.

By the way, did you succeed loggin in, finally?

OK. Now I see how carefully you read my post. Even if you only read part way through, the first line says:

 

Oh yeah! Thanks Eggie. I did find that this works (after a few more complications in the sign-up process).

That was in reply to:

 

did you even register at xisto(<<link)??

you first have to register there with email you registered here in order to get mycents system to work

Else I will try to make an also rather long post in order to explain my way of thinking about this ?

Well, that might be a waste of time, if you are less informed about the subject in question, than might be required to appreciate it's subtler points. Besides which, I'm not looking forward to a long discourse on this subject; especially not here, as I earn no credit in this place. I have bent over backwards to stress, that my criticism, is intended as constructive and offered as a (hopefully) thoughtful retrospective explanation, of how I spent a frustrating evening trying to do something, which was inadvertently thwarted, by an avoidable misunderstanding. You will also notice, I have bent over backwards to take my share of accountability for the misunderstanding.

 

If your only response is to scoff at or disregard my points, without understanding them in the constructive manner they were intended, then there is no point in my continued effort to explain them in further detail. There's no point guiding the Lilly, if you can't even see the Lilly. There is no benefit whatsoever for me, in coming here to provide information about my difficulties, in the procedures of using this website (or it's associated sites). The only benefit to be gained, is by other people being warned of the pitfalls I have found and perhaps more importantly, for prudent staffers, who might be capable of acknowledging the misgivings of any process, by which they might also be able to improve it. As I explained in the first instance, I am not here to air a grievance. A much shorter (and far less helpful) post would have done that.

 

There is no pay off for me, to win a contentious argument about how justified (and therefore constructive) my criticism was in the first place. Anybody who doesn't wish to read it, understand it, appreciate the generosity of it, then learn and benefit from it, can always just ignore it and move on. A glib, dismissive, defensive response, to a fair, constructive criticism, kinda spoils the charitable spirit by which it is intended. That's where a thoughtful, helpful, well intended piece of good advice, can turn contentious. That would also be where, with all due respects, I opt out.

 

Regards Skepticus.