The Nazi Were The Best People!

[fermin25 3]

The Nazi, name to the National Socialism regimen in Germany commanded by Adolf Hitler between 1933-1945 was the most great time for the germans.

 

When Hitler was the Fuhrer Germany grows up, In Economy, In belic Power, in other words Germany converted in Mundial Power.

 

The germans lived the most quality life in the history of World...

 

Dont bad-understand me I know that The nazis made a lot of crimes which violated the human rights... But, what goverment didn´t commit crimes?. Until in America the goverment kill people...

 

The Nazi Germany was the best people that ever exists!!!

 

Proof of that is that all the mundial potencies: USA, England, France, URSS have to fight against the Third Reich to destroy it.

 

Germany now is a sleeping people...A decadent country...

 

I am not racist, Neonazi or Antisemist but nobody can deny that Germany had his best time with Hitler how its Fuhrer.

 

Hitler was a murder I know... but, Who great governor wasn´t? George Washington killed people, Alexander the Great killed people, George Bush killed people...

 

My point is Hitler have his credit in the World History...

 

Why is this credit don´t recognized?

 

A conspiration by who have afraid about the Nazi?

[Entheone 0]

Hello fermin25,

 

This may well be the most interesting vindication of Nazism that I've read, by the mere virtue of its being the least documented, most self-contradictory, and easiest to refute. Let me explain...

 

The Nazi, name to the National Socialism regimen in Germany commanded by Adolf Hitler between 1933-1945 was the most great time for the germans.

That sounds like a mighty definitive statement. I wonder if the majority of Germans agree on this. Perhaps you have some kind of official poll or survey to support this?

 

When Hitler was the Fuhrer Germany grows up, In Economy, In belic Power, in other words Germany converted in Mundial Power.

I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Indeed, Germany witnessed some of its most expansive and industrial days under the Third Reich. But are you sure that economy and military power are the only two criteria for gauging the growth of any country?

 

The germans lived the most quality life in the history of World...

Quality of life? Germans? History of the world? I'll have to assume that you're joking, and I'll have to apologize for considering it a very unfunny joke to boot.

 

How about quality of life? Wages in Germany dropped by about 25% between 1933 and 1938 (source: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/). Citizens were classified as Aryans and non-Aryans - such as jews, Romani, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other minorities - and the non-Aryan were systematically and severely persecuted, along with people with mental or physical disabilities and homosexuals. Notice that non-Aryans were "Germans" who certainly wouldn't believe that they enjoyed the "highest quality of life in the history of the world."

 

Dont bad-understand me I know that The nazis made a lot of crimes which violated the human rights... But, what goverment didn´t commit crimes?. Until in America the goverment kill people...

That's a good point, but let me make sure I understood you correctly. Is this analogous to saying: "since every human being has lied to someone at some point in their lives, it's alright to lie?" And, if this statement is not the same as your contention, would you be so kind as to tell me how it isn't?

 

Proof of that is that all the mundial potencies: USA, England, France, URSS have to fight against the Third Reich to destroy it.

Actually, I find myself obligated to correct you. USA, England, France, USSR, and the other Allies, had to fight against against not only the Third Reich - oh no, sir - but against the entire force of the Axis powers, which included Germany, Japan, Italy, Hungary, and Romania, to name just some of them.

 

Germany now is a sleeping people...A decadent country...

Another wonderfully definitive statement that I find extremely hard to understand. Are you sure you're talking about the same Germany that is a driving industrial force?

 

I am not racist, Neonazi or Antisemist but nobody can deny that Germany had his best time with Hitler how its Fuhrer.

Actually, since you just said that "Germans are the best people" just a couple of lines ago, that makes you a racist by definition. I generally find racism at its purest sense a loathsome and despicable persuasion and tendency, but if you have a positive spin on it I'd be more than interested to hear it.

 

Oh, and yes, many-bodies can deny that Germany had its best time during Hitler's rule, not least a good portion of the Germans themselves.

 

Hitler was a murder I know... but, Who great governor wasn´t? George Washington killed people, Alexander the Great killed people, George Bush killed people...

Now those are excellent examples. Unfortunately, it's a long discussion that will take us outside the realm of this topic and into some serious philosophical debate that I'm not ready for. And, I suspect, neither are you.

 

My point is Hitler have his credit in the World History...

 

Why is this credit don´t recognized?

 

A conspiration by who have afraid about the Nazi?

Hitler is and will probably always be fully recognized in history, my good man. Recognized as what, that's up for personal interpretation. I don't think there's such a conspiracy as the one you hint at, but I suspect that, if such a one did exist, the conspirators would be prudent to be afraid!!

 

 

Have a good day, fermin. I hope, should Nazism comes back in your life, that you're either Aryan or that you find some way to convince the SS that you are

[fermin25 3]

Your answer is self-contradictory too... I understand you because I imagine that you were educated in the "occidental world" where Hitler is considerated an monster...But Why George Bush isn´t considerated an monster, too? why?????????You said that the industrial, education and belic growth is not all...Well then What is it all? United States is a power nation because their educational, industrial and belic system are the world´s best...Also without Hitler Germany would be and Third-World country...The country have lost all the principles that had when Hitler gave to the people...Proof of that is the actual minister which is a joke if you comparate with Hitler...What I am trying to say is don´t fall in the occidental opinion...In America Fidel Castro is a monster, Why? In Egypt somebody is a monster but Ask yourself Why??If all the people would have the same point of reference...This would be a list of Monsters...George BushRonald ReaganGeorge WashingtonThe Quenn IsabelFidel CastroAdolf HitlerOsama Bin LadenSaddam HusseimOthers....Well can you say me that I´m wrong?Regards.

Edited May 27, 2009 by fermin25 (see edit history)

[Entheone 0]

Well can you say me that I´m wrong?

Why would I? Believe me, it's not my intention to make you wrong or make myself right. I'm simply talking with you, one human to another :-)

 

Your answer is self-contradictory too... I understand you because I imagine that you were educated in the "occidental world" where Hitler is considerated an monster...

Actually, I was educated in a country that's been ruled by tyrants for as long as anybody can remember. In fact, one of its recent presidents has been labeled "Hitler of the Nile." In fact, since most everyone in Egypt hates Jewish and Israeli people because of their religious difference, I live in a country that in some ways, although extremely few and never explicit, considers Hitler a good-doer.

 

But Why George Bush isn´t considerated an monster, too? why?????????

He is considered a monster by many, myself included.

 

You said that the industrial, education and belic growth is not all...Well then What is it all?

I tried to give you some examples of what I think is important in addition to economic, industrial and military growth. By the way, what does "belic" mean? I tried looking it up but I couldn't find it.

 

What I am trying to say is don´t fall in the occidental opinion...

I would like to rephrase this piece of advice into this: don't blindly agree or disagree with anything until you consciously understand why why you're agreeing or disagreeing. How does that sound?

[dangerdan 0]

Firstly, by the end of Hitler's tenure as German Fuhrer the country was left in absolute ruins by the reparations (around £6, 600m) it was forced to pay other countries following the second world war. The country was divided into East and West for 30 years as the epicentre of the Cold War. So Hitler certainly didn't leave the country in a very good state....As for during his reign, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Hitler was extremely popular in German, after all he did win the popular vote in what could loosely be defined as 'democracy' - though there are the obvious allegations of scare campaigns and the like. Hitler did create a lot of jobs and almost unarguably increased the standard of living in Germany - for 'Ayran' German citizens at least - but Hitler was building a wartime economy. Let's not forget millions of Jews, Gypsies, Gays and the Disabled were forced to flee Germany and the surrounding countries as World War II raged on.Thirdly, Germany is now the worlds largest exporter (surpassing even the USA and China) and arguably NO country has recovered quicker, or better, from WWII than Germany and it is now one of the strongest economies in the world and the heart of the Eurozone.And finally, your comparisons between the likes of George Bush, Tony Blair and Usama Bin Ladin, Saddam Hussein are ones to which their is certainly some weight behind. The International condemned the war in Iraq with almost as much vigour as they condemned the 9/11 attacks. Bush will remain the quintessential example of a 'Western war criminal' for the war on terror based on the premise of WMDs it later emerged they didn't have, and all arguably in the guise of protecting US interest in the Middle East - particularly regarding their oil interests. The fact Usama Bin Ladin is a terrorist and should be bought to justice is undeniable.You do raise some interesting points, however, my only criticism would be in that you do it in a way that seems to suggest you condone the Nazi era of German as well as global terrorist and terrorism.

[dangerdan 0]

i don't get how to quote but.....I would like to rephrase this piece of advice into this: don't blindly agree or disagree with anything until you consciously understand why why you're agreeing or disagreeing. How does that sound? Exactly! I would just urge everyone to think critically about what your told in the media, especially in the Western world. DO NOT BLINDLY BELIEVE!

[fermin25 3]

You are incredible guys...But I understand you because you have a contaminated point of reference to see the world history...Open your minds, analize the situation without remembering the "Western" version of the history...It´s not truth all the time.

[dangerdan 0]

Your the incredible one. I hate people who oppose anything that the West says on the very grounds that the West has said it. It's self defeating.But ultimately I'm not an idiot. I think critically about everything I get taught at school or university as well as what I read or see in the media. I'm as sceptical as the next person. But my scepticism does not induce neo-Nazism, Holocaust denial or the advocation of world terrorists. If you think the Nazis and Osama bin Laden were/are good people, then it is TRULY you who needs to open your mind and analyse. I'm not saying George Bush is perfect, far from it, I think he's a war criminal, but just because I think that doesn't mean I have to sympathise with terrorists either. I would never condone either theirs or the Nazis actions.Can I ask where your from fermin? Do you happen to be German by any chance...?

[TheFury 0]

What are you promoting here (at the OP), that the German people are great or that NAZI's were great. It seems to me that your arguments are kind of for the former, but you have it confused with the later. It is impossible for any rational person to conclude anything other than, Nazi'z, both modern historic, and all that Nazism stands for is built out of fear and hate, which ultimately lead to the deaths of millions of innocent people labeled as sub human. And while the world focuses on the anti semetic nature of the Nazi's, it was not just the Jews who were slaughtered, there were more Russians killed by the Nazi's than Jews, as they too were labeled sub human and were to be exterminated as well, the only reason why they do not make the front pages of history is because the Russians were not funneled through death camps like the Jews were, the Russians were raped and killed in their farms, houses and cities by Jo Average German soldier, not by Mendals brain washed special units.

[dangerdan 0]

Russia lost the most lives in WWII but I don't believe the Russians were systematically singled out in the same way the Jews were.

 

People all too frequently associate Nazism purely with their racial and anti-semitic policies.

 

For example in 1933 the Nazi's introduced what were, at the time, pioneering animal rights legislation. They also had a strong anti-tobacco campaign and very good healthcare systems. The Nazis also famously created Volkswagen ( the peoples car) - a car that every German citizen was supposed to be able to afford.

 

As with virtually any government, there were pros and cons. For me, and I don't think it would be an overstatement to say the majority of the world, the Nazis cons far outweigh their pros.

[TheFury 0]

Russia lost the most lives in WWII but I don't believe the Russians were systematically singled out in the same way the Jews were.

No, you are correct that they were not systematically killed in death camps like the Jews were, they were just slaughtered in their homes, in numbers greater than the Jews. This was the ultimate fate of anyone the regime labeled as sub-human.

 

Just for a little perspective there are the numbers:

Jews: 5.2 Million

Slavic's: 10.5 Million

 

Other groups also called untermensch were gypsies, blacks, homosexuals, criminals, mentally and or physically disabled, the deaf, beggars, prostitutes, alcoholics and pacifists just to name a few. If your family had someone who was in one of the above groups, the whole family was send to the death camps. Purity of the Arian ideal was what was important and even good, honest and upright German descendants were to be cleansed if they had any hint of weakness in their genes.

 

 

For anyone who thought that this was a great time for the German people, take a read through the quote below, taken from http://www.johndclare.net/Nazi_Germany3.htm pretty much anyone who did not tow the party line was going off to a death camp.

 

2 Ordinary people

 

For ordinary people, life was good, and many Germans even today look back and remember the years before 1939 as happy years:

 

 

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Nazi economic policies gave full employment (work programmes/ Strength through Joy), prosperity and financial security - many observers stated that there seemed to be no poverty in Germany,

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the Strength through Joy programme (KdF) gave some people fun and holidays.

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the 'Beauty of Work' movement (SdA) gave people pride in what they were doing.

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law and order (few people locked their doors),

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autobahns improved transport,

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frequent ceremonies, rallies, colour and excitement,

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Nazi propaganda gave people hope,

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Nazi racial philosophy gave people self-belief

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Trust in Adolf Hitler gave a sense of security (one German woman told the American reporter Nora Wall: 'He is my mother and my father. He keeps me safe from all harm.')

 

 

 

There were few drawbacks:

 

 

Wages fell, and strikers could be shot - the Nazis worked closely with the businessmen to make sure that the workforce were as controlled as possible.

 

 

Loss of personal freedoms (eg freedom of speech).

 

 

All culture had to be German - eg music had to be Beethoven or Wagner or German folk songs - or Nazi - eg all actors had to be members of the Nazi party/ only books by approved authors could be read.

 

 

 

Prora holiday camp

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source A

 

We all felt the same, the same happiness and joy. Things were looking up. I believe no statesman has ever been as loved as Adolf Hitler was then. It’s all come flooding back to me. Those were happy times.

 

A German farmer, Luise Essig, remembering life in Nazi Germany.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 Women

 

The Nazis were very male-dominated and anti-feminist. Nazi philosophy idealised the role of women as child-bearer and creator of the family:

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The Law for the Encouragement of Marriage gave newly-wed couples a loan of 1000 marks, and allowed them to keep 250 marks for each child they had.

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Mothers who had more than 8 children were given a gold medal.

 

 

 

But not all women were happy with the Nazi regime:

 

 

Job-discrimination against women was encouraged. Women doctors, teachers and civil servants were forced to give up their careers.

 

 

Women were never allowed to serve in the armed forces - even during the war.

 

 

Source B

 

The perfect Nazi family

 

 

 

 

4 Youth

 

Most German young people were happy.

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Nazi culture was very youth-oriented.

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The HJ provided exciting activities for young boys.

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The HJ and the BDM treated young men and women as though they were special, and told then they had knew more then their parents.

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Many parents were frightened that their children would report them to the Gestapo, which gave young people a power that they enjoyed.

 

 

 

But not all young people were happy with the Nazi regime:

 

 

SOME girls were unhappy with the emphasis on the three Cs (Church, children, cooker).

 

Girls who were regarded as true Aryan girls were sent off to special camps where they were bred (like farm animals) with selected 'Aryan' boys.

 

 

Towards the end of the war, youth gangs such as the Eidelweiss Pirates grew up, rejecting the HJ and Nazi youth culture, drinking and dancing to American jazz and 'swing' music.

 

In Cologne in 1944 they sheltered army deserters and even attacked the Gestapo.

 

If they were caught, they were hanged.

 

 

 

More sources on Nazi youth

 

 

Source C

 

The perfect Nazi boy...

Source D

 

...and Aryan girl

 

 

5 Opponents

 

The Nazi's used 'fear and horror' against anyone who disapproved of their regime:

 

 

Hitler banned all Trade Unions on 2 May 1933. Their offices were closed, their money confiscated, and their leaders put in prison.

 

 

Communists were put into concentration camps or killed.

 

 

Many Protestant pastors such as Dietrich Bonhoffer were persecuted and executed.

 

 

Each block of flats had a 'staircase ruler' who reported grumblers to the police - they were arrested and either murdered, or sent to concentration camps.

 

 

Children were encouraged to report their parents to the Gestapo if they criticized Hitler or the Nazi party.

 

 

 

But remember that:

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Many Germans welcomed this because it brought political stability after the Weimar years.

 

 

 

Nazi concentration camp badges

 

 

 

This Google book has a very clear, detailed description of the anti-Nazi opposition.

 

Opposition to the Nazis - difficult article

 

And this is a good article on the Polish resistance: Action N.

 

 

6 Untermensch

 

The Nazi regime despised many groups which it thought were racially or socially inferior (untermensch = subhuman) - people they called the 'germs of destruction'.

 

 

 

Groups which were persecuted and killed included:

 

 

Jews, such as Anne Frank, whom the Germans systematically persecuted, were forced into walled ghettos, put into concentration camps, and used for medical experiments. In the end the Nazis devised the Final Solution of genocide - it was the Holocaust.

 

 

Gypsies were treated almost as badly as the Jews - 85% of Germany's gypsies were killed.

 

 

Black people were sterilized and killed.

 

 

5000 mentally disabled babies were killed 1939-45.

 

 

72,000 mentally ill patients were killed 1939-41.

 

 

Physically disabled people and families with hereditary illness were sometimes sterilized. 300,000 men and women were sterilized 1934-45.

 

 

Some deaf people were sterilised and put to death.

 

 

Beggars, homosexuals, prostitutes, alcoholics, pacifists, hooligans and criminals were also regarded as anti-social, and they were put in concentration camps.

[dangerdan 0]

It's interesting that you mention the Hitler Youth. What do you all make of the fact that Pope Benedict XVI was a member, albeit he says compulsoraily?

[TheFury 0]

It's interesting that you mention the Hitler Youth. What do you all make of the fact that Pope Benedict XVI was a member, albeit he says compulsoraily?

Not a lot really, what choice did he have, join, or object and be killed. Most people will take the path of least resistance in situations like this. Nazi society was built around fear, not only fear of Jews, but fear of not following what the state said was good for you.

A couple of posts back someone mentioned George Bush and Ronald Regan and likened them to hitleresc tyrants, while i personally disagree with their politics, there is a stark difference between their regimes and the Nazis and that of recent US presidents, and that is i can publicly object to, protest against, campaign against and call them *BLEEP*s and wankers to their faces and not be killed for my actions. Disagree with Hitler on ANYTHING and you either were forced to commit suicide, publicly executed or sent to the labour camps where you were worked to death.

The German people accepted Nazism initially because they offered change and later on purely out of fear, got a problem with your neighbor, tell the gestapo and your problem is gone, so are their children and most of their immediate families. Anyone who thinks living under that sort of fear was a high point in German society needs to honestly have their heads read.


Without taking this way off topic, the thing i find most interesting about Bishop Ratsfinger is the position he held before becoming Pope. He was head of The Office of Faith and Doctrine. This in itself sounds all nice and harmless, but when your made aware that prior to the 1900's The Office and Faith and Doctrine was called THE OFFICE OF THE INQUISITION, itself an inherently antisemitic office guilty of the deaths and persecution of Jews. Along with the Romes support of Hitler during the war and its assistance in helping fleeing war crimes suspects and its denier position for many years with respect to the holocaust, its pretty hard to take the Catholic Church serious with respect to his appointment.

[dangerdan 0]

Yeah people who make out that US Presidents are some kind of tyrant is such a fallacy. The US prides itself on freedom of speech and civil liberties - did George Bush or Reagan remove either of these? Maybe to a degree. But the Nazis did it almost completely. Say what you want about the American 2 party system, in my opinion it beats the Nazis one party system hands down.

[TheFury 0]

Yeah people who make out that US Presidents are some kind of tyrant is such a fallacy. The US prides itself on freedom of speech and civil liberties - did George Bush or Reagan remove either of these? Maybe to a degree. But the Nazis did it almost completely.
Say what you want about the American 2 party system, in my opinion it beats the Nazis one party system hands down.

Open criticism of the Nazi regime resulted in your death, open criticism of the ruling party without fear of reprisal is one of the corner stones of modern democracy. And this in itself is the crux of the argument that the Nazi regime was great. It was in no way shape or form great because it repressed its peoples and made them live in fear of what would happen to them if the disagreed with the party line. Work camps and the Gestapo being the tools to that end. So, while many people initially supported Hitler and all he stood for, they remained so only out of fear of that the Nazi regime would do to them and their families.