Syntheist

[Aniki 0]

I used to participate in a religious debate forum, but it just... wasn't there one day. They were always talking about how they didn't have enough christians... perhaps they finally gave up. Too bad, was a really great forum...Anyway, one of the members described himself as a 'Syntheist.' He said a Syntheist is someone who exchanges ideas and believes with others, and then incorporates this new information into their belief system. No fighting, no arguing, no hatred. The two parties simply share, become a little wiser, and walk away. A Syntheist doesn't have to use the new ideas, but even if they don't they're still better off than they were before, because they've just learned something they didn't know before. And that's always good, you can never know too much, I say. You could take this knowledge and store it away, or use it, or mix it with the knowledge you had before and make something entirely new. Knowledge has no limit.I just thought this was nice... perhaps in the future we'll have something like this, and there'll be no more deaths and pain on account of religion.

[foolakadugie 0]

I used to participate in a religious debate forum, but it just... wasn't there one day. They were always talking about how they didn't have enough christians... perhaps they finally gave up. Too bad, was a really great forum...
Anyway, one of the members described himself as a 'Syntheist.' He said a Syntheist is someone who exchanges ideas and believes with others, and then incorporates this new information into their belief system. No fighting, no arguing, no hatred. The two parties simply share, become a little wiser, and walk away. A Syntheist doesn't have to use the new ideas, but even if they don't they're still better off than they were before, because they've just learned something they didn't know before. And that's always good, you can never know too much, I say. You could take this knowledge and store it away, or use it, or mix it with the knowledge you had before and make something entirely new. Knowledge has no limit.

I just thought this was nice... perhaps in the future we'll have something like this, and there'll be no more deaths and pain on account of religion.

I have always believed that you can learn something from everyone. That goes for wisdom outside of religion as well.
If people would practice a little more tolerance and stop imposing their beliefs on others, the world would be a much more
peaceful place. I have friends from many different cultures and religions and they all have unique wisdom to share.
It seems to me that some people are afraid (maybe even subconsciously) to listen to challenging views, because it may
disrupt or change what they believe. They are comfortable, spiritually, and they don't want to come out of their comfort
zone. Why else would people become so defensive when those views are challenged, even in a nonthreatening way.
If they are know they are right, then listening can't do any harm, and if they are willing to listen they might even learn
something new.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

no more deaths and pain on account of religion.

Aniki, I have noticed you tend to blame religion for so many things. If you ever actually studied Christianity you'd see Jesus never advocated violence and support kind exchange of ideas.

I suggest you blame men for their actions and not blame an ideology for its actions.

You seem to believe religion is the great problem in the world. However for a lot of people its a coping method to deal with other problems like poverty, death and despair.

Enjoy your one-sided view of religion...you have proven that your close minded to anything other than anti-religion. Way to Go Buddy!

[foolakadugie 0]

Aniki, I have noticed you tend to blame religion for so many things. If you ever actually studied Christianity you'd see Jesus never advocated violence and support kind exchange of ideas.
I suggest you blame men for their actions and not blame an ideology for its actions.

You seem to believe religion is the great problem in the world. However for a lot of people its a coping method to deal with other problems like poverty, death and despair.

Enjoy your one-sided view of religion...you have proven that your close minded to anything other than anti-religion. Way to Go Buddy!

I can't speak for him, but even when religion does not advocate violence, there is no denying that religion-related violence occurs.
It has happened all throughout history and still continues today. The way that I understood his post is that if people were open to peacefully
discussing their differences in beliefs, instead fighting or imposing ones beliefs on others, violence could be avoided. I know not all religious
people use violence or impose their beliefs on others, but some do. One way or another, many religious people are going to want to tell other
people about their beliefs and many religions tell their followers to do so. It is a much better way to sit and have a nice open discussion about it then
to shove it down peoples throats. I know that I would be more receptive in a positive situation like that. That way you have an exchange of ideas
and maybe you will learn something from the other person. It isn't always against one religion to adopt morals and ideas from another. Also,
sometimes when people learn a little more about another set of ideas and debunk certain myths, those ideas are less foreign and intimidating, which
may encourage a bit more tolerance.

[Aniki 0]

Aniki, I have noticed you tend to blame religion for so many things. If you ever actually studied Christianity you'd see Jesus never advocated violence and support kind exchange of ideas.
I suggest you blame men for their actions and not blame an ideology for its actions.

You seem to believe religion is the great problem in the world. However for a lot of people its a coping method to deal with other problems like poverty, death and despair.

Enjoy your one-sided view of religion...you have proven that your close minded to anything other than anti-religion. Way to Go Buddy!

Ah, SilverFox! I would have asked that we have a private discussion over email, so as to stop this on-and-off argument we seem to be having... but then I wouldn't get any credits .

I do in fact blame religion for quite a bit. Throughout my life, I've never believed in god, because my mother felt that faith was a personal thing, and she never really talked to us about it. When I was little, I would go to school, and whenever the other children spoke of god, I said I didn't believe in him, because that was the simple truth. Then suddenly, I'd be told I was an evil, devil-worshiping cultist. That I was going to be thrown in hell and have my flesh boiled off me, etc. These children acted as if they were taught only about christianity, the hundreds of other religions were not even mentioned to them. I got the impression that they were told that whoever didn't worship god, worshiped the devil. Honestly, this seems to me like brainwashing. I am not impressed with christianity. To this day, I've been told I'm going to a place of eternal suffering that I don't even believe in, and that not even christians seem to be able to agree on what exactly it is.

But then, of course, I've learned about all the terrible things christianity has done. Granted, christianity isn't the only bad religion in the world, and it's not totally bad, but it's the one I'm surrounded with every day. I've given you examples of the terrible things it has done. I'll say them again: Crusades, Witchhunts, Inquisition, and many acts of hatred over the years, like that time when a busload of christians tried to stone a peaceful wiccan protest. You said in another thread that the good outweighs the bad, but I said I couldn't think of anything, and asked for examples. You didn't answer.

Of course, I don't like any of the abrahamic monotheisms. In fact, I think I like every religion that doesn't have a monotheistic view, except perhaps zoroastrianism. I think that perhaps christianity has become such a default thing that people who were introduced to it at a young age take it for granted, they don't follow their commandments, they don't take their bible seriously, etc. People who choose to become Wiccans and Buddhists do so because they thought it was the best religion for them... most of the time.

You say Jesus never advocated violence. And yeah, that's true. But I'm blaming christianity for what its followers have done. And also, the bible, pardon for saying, is kind of a mess. You've got inconsistencies everywhere, you have people killing other people, wars, incest, 'kindly' god turning people into salt... Jesus may have never advocated violence, but I'd say the bible does. I don't care about Jesus, he was a cool guy, I think. I blame christianity as a group, not an ideology. Though I'm beginning to gain a bit more respect for it, though I won't entirely like it.

Religion, in the beginning, was simply a way to answer the questions that the ancients couldn't find out themselves. There's also a couple other things, but it's 6 in the morning, and I'm tired. Anyway, I don't believe we need a crutch right now. People need to look around themselves, see the beauty in the secular world, see the meaning in everything, and find something to reach for. You know what people who aren't quite mentally stable could do? They could think that since there's a wonderful afterlife waiting for them, they can do whatever the hell they want on earth and not be punished. They could go on a murder rampage, for instance. And I know, no religion says that, but once again, a lot of people are taking it for granted, they hear what they want to hear.

Whew! My point is, you can say that religion is a good, nice thing that makes people happy, but that's your opinion. It causes more suffering than happiness, in my opinion. There are no right answers. You just have to do the best you can, and stick to the absolute moral standard, the ethic of reciprocity--which you'd call the golden rule--and not force your views on others.

Sorry if I rambled.
Edited May 11, 2007 by Aniki (see edit history)

[Jeigh1405241495 0]

Well, I have a few things to add First I'll start off saying I'm a Christian, but I don't freak out when people have differing views from me or don't like Christianity. People SHOULD believe whatever they want to, that's the whole point of faith, really. However this "Syntheist" idea kind of confuses me as it seems like people who want to pretend to follow a religion, but just have what we all have, free will haha. It sounds like they are trying to label themselves simply because they don't react negatively to ideas when that should more so be a characteristic not a way of life or religion or classification... but I digress.As far as the whole bad Christians thing goes, I think you should be more clear in specifying that you dislike/hate/whatever the arrogant stupid Christians. Personally I've never tried to force my beliefs on anyone except when asked, I've never tried to convince someone my way was right unless I had non-faith defenses as well. I've had debates with friends where I stood for AND against Christianity. Basically I know what I believe, and I know a lot of other Christians do it right. Unfortunately as you said C is the default religion almost nowadays and as such so many people claim to be when they aren't, thus diluting the base populace. Further the high profile cases against Christianity due to the power we've had over the years causes it to be more obvious when wrong doings occur.Basically my point is, as you said every religion has problems. You should learn to despise the individuals.Also you can't blame religion for all the violence it seems to have caused, really. It may have been used but a lot of the violence either used religion as a tool for enlisting aid OR was simply the easiest way. Humanity will likely always fight each other over things, religion just offers an easy excuse If not religion then its politics, money, etc.In closing, some of humanity is good, the rest sucks.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

But I'm blaming christianity for what its followers have done.

Blame the followers or the specific denomination. Don't blame all of us.
I guess Aniki sometimes I sense your close minded and reject any religious ideas...I think maybe you've just had bad experiences.

But like Chirstianity encompasses a lot, please don't group us all together.

Religion didn't cause violence, people used religion to further their violent goals.

Ah, SilverFox! I would have asked that we have a private discussion over email, so as to stop this on-and-off argument we seem to be having... but then I wouldn't get any credits tongue.gif .

Aniki although at times you seem close minded, but for being 15 I think your pretty smart and would like to continue our talk in private.

[mitchellmckain 0]

Enjoy your one-sided view of religion...you have proven that your close minded to anything other than anti-religion. Way to Go Buddy!

SilverFox, this is a bit of an over-reaction. Aniki is not any more close minded than you are. He has made his mind up about a few thing just as you have. It is only natural that as an atheist he would have some anti-religious sentiments, and we only find the barest hint of this in the last statement of the OP. Taking this statement a bit more calmly, do we not have reason to agree with his hope that "there'll be no more deaths and pain on account of religion"? Do we not look forward to a day when people will no longer twist the ideas of religion into an excuse for hatred?
I guess I have met far too many atheists with much more extreme anti-religious rhetoric so that makes Aniki seem pretty friendly to me. Unfortunately it is one of those tendencies that hostility and attack brings out the same behavior in others and so in response to your hostility, instead of reaffirming the possible innocence of his first statement, Aniki has turned up the heat a bit. It is, of course, a fallacy to personify Christianity and speak of things which it has done. The same fallacy turned around upon atheism to blame it for everything atheists have done (like under the name of Communism), is at least as great a criticism as his. But these are the tactics of bigotry and prejudice.

Let us remember that we are first and foremost not Christian and atheist, but only human beings, with a very dark heritage of blood and ignorance very close behind us.

Aniki, I have noticed you tend to blame religion for so many things. If you ever actually studied Christianity you'd see Jesus never advocated violence and support kind exchange of ideas.

Blaiming others is indeed humanities' worst habit, and it goes all the way back to the garden of Eden. Because of a little fear, Adam and Eve turned their back on their love for God and love for each other, willing to blame anyone and everyone but themselves for their own mistakes. Oh if only they could have said, "God I am sorry, you told us not to eat of that fruit but we did it anyway." Things would have been so much different if they had.
By blaming others we try to pretend that there is no darkness within us, but that only hides our evil in greater darkness, giving it the freedom to grow. Finally we reach a point were we have within our minds transformed our scapegoat into a devil and the darkness within us reaches out to conquer our soul by making us give into hatred so that we can destroy this devil which is really only our fellow human beings. In just this way, Adam and Eve transformed an angel of light into a great Devil and "author of evil". But when you pass the blame to others abdicating your own responsiblity, this comes with a price, for freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. And so with the blame went also the dominion over the earth, making this Devil we created into the "god of this world".

I used to participate in a religious debate forum, but it just... wasn't there one day. They were always talking about how they didn't have enough christians... perhaps they finally gave up. Too bad, was a really great forum...

This and thescienceforum are my permanent discussion forums but I have been on the search for a religious discussion forum for a while. The christainforums turned out to be dominated by Catholics rather hostile to Protestant ideals and theologyonline turned out to be dominated by right-wing fanatics so extreme that they seemed like facists to me. So far apologetics.com has been pretty impressive in the level of education and rationality of its diverse members (Christian, atheist, LDS, JW, and more). Edited May 14, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)