CS Engineers = Programming Engineers? Should CS Engineers be qualified to program algorithms?

[Jose Manuel 0]

Hi there, I would like to start a topic, which probably would be controversial, about whether the Computer Sciences Engineers (I mean at the University) should be taught to program or not. This is a fact that has been around inside my mind for long time.I think CS-Engs. should have knowledge about general programming methodology, but we (yes, I am a CS-Eng.) are not supposed to be just programmers... we are data/system/program analysts, designers, etc. I just cannot imagine an Architect in a building work, preparing the concrete mixture and putting the tiles, etc. The architect just make the calculations for building up the building, and drawing the plannings, etc. We all agree, it would be shooking to meet an architect working as a plain "bricklayer". Or imaging a neurosurgeon, he/she studied for almost 10 years, she wouldn't allow to work giving insuline injections... If we ask her she would tell us: "That would be a waste of money and years! I haven't studied neurosurgery to give insuline injections!"However, it is rather strange to meet a CS-Eng. who does not program, specially a young just graduated CS-Eng. Why??? I feel we are denigrating our own job. We shouldn't be contracted to do so...What do you think?

[vhortex 1]

I am a computer engineer myself and I dont like the fact here in my country that we are for designs only. I made myself learn programming, all bits of it from database, desktop software, and till to the web.About the computer science engineers, it is a little new for me since this is the first time i heard that this exist. no offense bout that since i was just preoccupied in my self studies.As a computer engineer, I can design new system boards and logics.. but what the heck.. i was not allowed to repair broken computers nor program new systems. I cant find it logical for my job to be devoided of that simple task. How can I know the system flow much more accurately if i cant program nor even touch the hardware..--I have this on my mind also, I do not study long just to guess at what the potential problems are.. i want to fix it and prevent this stuff to occur.. --on my opinion, you must have the skills and potentials of general programming.. how can you perform your job if you are not skilled about that field.. just my few cents..

Edited July 6, 2006 by vhortex (see edit history)

[Jose Manuel 0]

About the computer science engineers, it is a little new for me since this is the first time i heard that this exist. no offense bout that since i was just preoccupied in my self studies.

Well, it is a translation of the name of the graduate diploma of the Computer Sciences Engineering in my home country. Maybe I translated it wrong... I apologize.

As a computer engineer, I can design new system boards and logics.. but what the heck.. i was not allowed to repair broken computers nor program new systems. I cant find it logical for my job to be devoided of that simple task. How can I know the system flow much more accurately if i cant program nor even touch the hardware..

Can't you repair broken computers??? In my home country, Spain, anyone is able to do so... (at least, as long as I know... I might be wrong)

I can understand completely what you mean, because I am a professor of Computer Architecture, Digital Systems and Hardware in general... We are trying to make the students to understand exactly what you explain.

on my opinion, you must have the skills and potentials of general programming.. how can you perform your job if you are not skilled about that field.. just my few cents..

I think just the same way an architect is able to build up a whole building without putting bricks I mean there should exist "plain" programmers, dedicated just to program good quality codes; the same way there exists "bricklayers", devoted just to build up walls.

[vhortex 1]

Well, it is a translation of the name of the graduate diploma of the Computer Sciences Engineering in my home country. Maybe I translated it wrong... I apologize.

dont know if the translations are wrong. there are new graduate diploma courses going on and different from country to country.

yes i can repair computers but i do not master that one.. it is enough for me to design a circuit board having skill to repair the most common problems that does not require pulling out small electrical parts from the mother board. that part is the job of the technician..

As the architect, he is knowledgable on how to put the bricks.. but he dont need to put the bricks in position.. it is the brick layers specialty.. it will be also slow letting an architect put the bricks together..

--
on my side, since new hardware needs newer drivers and programming.. if we are not allowed to touched the software parts of hadwares.. or like.. how can we explain to the hardware programmer what to do and what should be done.. those programmers needs a clear idea on what we need to make the new piece of hardware work..

just like the ones in your post. people on your course must be teach the general programming skillz.. specialization is not needed.. it is the programmers job.. well unless you want to challenge youself!..

[Jose Manuel 0]

Not sure if I understood you, but I don't mean that CS engineers are not allowed to program or to engange with Hardware. They MUST know programming methodology and Hardware, among many other things! First of all, we are engineers so we are completely capable of going down to the facts and working the items with "our hands"... But that's not really our job!

yes i can repair computers but i do not master that one.. it is enough for me to design a circuit board having skill to repair the most common problems that does not require pulling out small electrical parts from the mother board. that part is the job of the technician..

I am assistant professor of Computer Architecture, and I don't master computer reparation! But I have the knowledge to become an expert

As the architect, he is knowledgable on how to put the bricks.. but he dont need to put the bricks in position.. it is the brick layers specialty.. it will be also slow letting an architect put the bricks together..

As you said, an architect knows how to put the bricks, but he does not do that job. In fact, I think we should take the position of the surgeon, which takes the control of any surgery when the specialized part he masters is needed.

on my side, since new hardware needs newer drivers and programming.. if we are not allowed to touched the software parts of hadwares.. or like.. how can we explain to the hardware programmer what to do and what should be done.. those programmers needs a clear idea on what we need to make the new piece of hardware work..

Why can't we get involved with new hardware???? In fact, I claim THAT'S really OUR part of the job. The rest of the program is not needed to be done by us... any junior programming could do it!

just like the ones in your post. people on your course must be teach the general programming skillz.. specialization is not needed.. it is the programmers job.. well unless you want to challenge youself!..

I disagree completely with you: in fact I feel that what we really need is specialized programming (database experts, assembler programming experts, graphic experts, etc.)

[TeamEFX 0]

What about:Software engineers? (CS/CPE)Power Engineers? (EEE)Hardware Engineers? (EEE)And in general,there are Design Engineers for the listed above.

[rcparur 0]

I think the entire discussion is based on an Incorrect assumption, that writing code is equivalent to brick laying.If it were so, wouldn't programmers be Paid like brick layers.Even if working with a good design document and related documentation, writing code is a mentally challenging job and requires problem solving skills and aptitude. So I think Computer Science graduates are the ones who should be writing code. They can with experience start doing Design tasks. But if they are not good writing code, to definitely cannot progress to designing good software.

[Alegis 0]

Strange. Here in Belgium attended my first bachelor year of Information Technology (for master in CS). Focus is theoretical of course, but with its share of programming (objected oriented methodology) and and algorithms. It is that aspect that got me in and keeps me going. Software development is of much more interest to me than hardware or merely design.