How Is Life After Death Possible? Where can the spirit be found?

[mitchellmckain 0]

Many people believe in some kind of existence after death. In this thread, let's question whether this makes any sense, and ask exactly what is meant.What is it that continues to exist after death? If death is survived by a spirit or whatever you want to call it, then what is it made out of? Where can it be found and how does it connect to everthing else we know about ourselves? How do we know?Now that I have asked the quetions, I will put forward my answers to these questions for you to consider as well. I will call the existence after death the spirit. And I propose that is made out of energy like everything else, but not a part of the measurable conserved energy, which the physical universe is made of. This energy which the spirit is made of, is given form by the choices we make. These choices are events with both physical and non-physical components.I will describe the physical component first:Living is a non-linear process that creates points of bifurcation where a quantum wave collapse is amplified to macroscopic consequences. The result is an event which has no pre-existing cause. Human consciousness identifies these events (which we call our actions and choices) as caused by the self, and our sense of self come from its identification as the cause of these events. Therefore the self and its actions are not in a traditional cause effect relationship, but are an example of self-causality, which means both the cause and the effect come into existence simultaeously. When we make a choice, we also simultaneously choose the reasons which are the cause of our choice. These self caused events transform the unverse as the usual type of cause and effect travel outward from these events at the speed of light. This is the true arrow of time, for the quantum wave collapse is not reversible. Particles are represented by waves (from which a probability distribution can be computed) which collapse instantly to point (according to that probability distribution), but the point (highly localized wave packet) cannot un-collapse. The localized wave packet cannot instantly revert to the non-localized wave, for the wave packet cannot expand faster than the speed of light. It must expand accoriding to Schrodinger's equation.The physical consists of energy which is bound in a single definite (macroscopically four dimensional) mathematical form which we call the universe. Everthing physical is an inseperable piece of this whole, bound by the laws which are its shape and form. The energy is bound to this form by the limits described by quantum mechanics. What do I mean? Well for example the energy is bound to a definite quantifiable amount. So we say that energy is conserved. However energy is bound to this quantity only within macroscopic limits defined by quantum mechanics. According to quantum mechanics, during shorter intervals of time (dt) an amount of energy dE need not be conserved according to (dE)(dt)=plank's constant. Here is the real boundary of the physical universe. It is not out there somewhere, but everywhere.The non-physical consists of energy which not bound to this single unified quantifiable form. The non-physical can interact with the physical only at the boundary, which means that it can only interact within the limits set down by quantum mechanics. The choices of living beings which we described above occur at this boundary and the formless nonphysical causes of our actions are given form by our choices. It is this form which we call the spirit. The spirit is not a piece of the physical universe and so it is not bound by the laws of its form. The spirit is only bound by the laws of it own form, which if you remember, I said was created by the choices of the living creature which indentifies it as the cause of its actions.How do I know all this? The same way I "know" anything else. It is consistent with my experience of reality. Is any knowledge certain? No. For example, I "know" the sun exists. But everything I have experienced in life could be a dream and when I wake up I may find out that there is no sun after all. The simple point of fact is that regardless of whether my experiences are "real" or not, the existence of the sun is consistent with those experiences. Knowledge is something we take for granted in order to live our lives. It is an hypothesis that we accept on faith, so that our minds can reason, because reason cannot find any beginning. Logic only goes from postulates to conclusions. Reason must start from somewhere and we must take our starting point on faith.

[Killer008r 0]

Really this all has to do with what you belive in. If, for instance you belive in my cultures ways. You would believe in spirits, bouth good and bad. People from my tribe are still sent on their spiritual journy, which now we are sent to a lake side. We have to stay there for 2 days and during those 2 days we are giving a drug that makes us pass out. This is our trip into manhood, during the trip we are to see what future lies ahead for us. And from that we see spirits of our ancesters guiding us back to the world. Or so they say, I havent giving that trip because my parents moved out of the Native "Reserve" when I was about 2-3 years old. However, I still believe in the spirutalality that my people believe in.

[HTML_Guru 0]

I will call the existence after death the spirit.  And I propose that is made out of energy like everything else, but not a part of the measurable conserved energy, which the physical universe is made of.  This energy which the spirit is made of, is given form by the choices we make.  These choices are events with both physical and non-physical components.

 

I will describe the physical component first:

 

Living is a non-linear process that creates points of bifurcation where a quantum wave collapse is amplified to macroscopic consequences.  The result is an event which has no pre-existing cause.  Human consciousness identifies these events (which we call our actions and choices) as caused by the self, and our sense of self come from its identification as the cause of these events.  Therefore the self and its actions are not in a traditional cause effect relationship, but are an example of self-causality, which means both the cause and the effect come into existence simultaeously. When we make a choice, we also simultaneously choose the reasons which are the cause of our choice. 

 

These self caused events transform the unverse as the usual type of cause and effect travel outward from these events at the speed of light.  This is the true arrow of time, for the quantum wave collapse is not reversible.  Particles are represented by waves (from which a probability distribution can be computed) which collapse instantly to point (according to that probability distribution), but the point (highly localized wave packet) cannot un-collapse.  The localized wave packet cannot instantly revert to the non-localized wave, for the wave packet cannot expand faster than the speed of light.  It must expand accoriding to Schrodinger's equation.

 

The physical consists of energy which is bound in a single definite (macroscopically four dimensional) mathematical form which we call the universe.  Everthing physical is an inseperable piece of this whole, bound by the laws which are its shape and form.  The energy is bound to this form by the limits described by quantum mechanics.  What do I mean?  Well for example the energy is bound to a definite quantifiable amount.  So we say that energy is conserved.  However energy is bound to this quantity only within macroscopic limits defined by quantum mechanics.  According to quantum mechanics, during shorter intervals of time (dt) an amount of energy dE need not be conserved according to (dE)(dt)=plank's constant.  Here is the real boundary of the physical universe.  It is not out there somewhere, but everywhere.

 

The non-physical consists of energy which not bound to this single unified quantifiable form.  The non-physical can interact with the physical only at the boundary, which means that it can only interact within the limits set down by quantum mechanics.  The choices of living beings which we described above occur at this boundary and the formless nonphysical causes of our actions are given form by our choices.  It is this form which we call the spirit.  The spirit is not a piece of the physical universe and so it is not bound by the laws of its form.  The spirit is only bound by the laws of it own form, which if you remember, I said was created by the choices of the living creature which indentifies it as the cause of its actions.

 

How do I know all this?  The same way I "know" anything else.  It is consistent with my experience of reality.  Is any knowledge certain?  No.  For example, I "know" the sun exists.  But everything I have experienced in life could be a dream and when I wake up I may find out that there is no sun after all.  The simple point of fact is that regardless of whether my experiences are "real" or not, the existence of the sun is consistent with those experiences.  Knowledge is something we take for granted in order to live our lives.  It is an hypothesis that we accept on faith, so that our minds can reason, because reason cannot find any beginning.  Logic only goes from postulates to conclusions.  Reason must start from somewhere and we must take our starting point on faith.

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mitchellmckain,

 

I just have to ask, how can you assume life and afterlife is so... physical? Do you not believe in any sort of spritual component or aspect, or do you simply not know? To me, it seems silly to attempt to "explain" such aspects with physical logistics, because as you see, it gets into subjects which just - quite frankly, it's silly, especially when it pertains to a subject such as this.

 

In any case, it is your belief and as such I will leave it at that; however, just know that I believe in something that's quite opposite from your belief.

[mitchellmckain 0]

mitchellmckain,

 

I just have to ask, how can you assume life and afterlife is so... physical?  Do you not believe in any sort of spritual component or aspect, or do you simply not know?  To me, it seems silly to attempt to "explain" such aspects with physical logistics, because as you see, it gets into subjects which just - quite frankly, it's silly, especially when it pertains to a subject such as this.

 

In any case, it is your belief and as such I will leave it at that; however, just know that I believe in something that's quite opposite from your belief.

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I think you need to read what I wrote a lot more carefully. The whole point of this thread is that if the spirit exists it must interact with us and the physical world somehow or it is meaningless. So the question is how? Materialistic and atheistic thinkers often point to this missing link to torpedo the whole idea of spirit as foolish and unsupportable. I did say that the human mind is a completely physical orgranism, but the spirit is completely non-physical.

 

All I do is give this idea of non-physical a definite meaning by saying that something which is non-physical is simply energy which is not a part of the energy which is part of the conserved energy of the physical universe and bound by its laws. It is being part of the universe and subject to its laws that makes things perishable, so there is no way in which saying that the spirit is made of energy makes it anything less that everthing than religious tradition attributes to the spirit, unless perhaps you ascribe to a philosophy like Plato's, which I despise.

[iGuest 3]

my spiritual connection with my son!How Is Life After Death Possible?

my son was killed aged 16years. july 2008.  when my son died, I surprised everyone with my 'so called strength and acceptance' which I can only say came from my belief of the afterlife and knowing that my son was in a safe place.  The most comforting aspect being that my son passed his pain to me on passing over -even though I was unaware of his death-I was doubled over in excrutiating pain and then I heard sirens and almost immediately I knew something had happened to one of my two sons.  However, although this gives me some comfort in the belief of quantum physics, I have now lost my belief in some ways as I was sure that after his death he would try to let me know he was still out there on some other energy level.  I feel nothing and I feel let down.  Do we just die and disappear, as so seems to have happened to my baby or am I expecting too much too soon!! Maybe I am asking this question in the wrong place, but I have been reading lots tonight and am starting to think I attracted my sons death by my thinking! Oh dear, I sound so morose, seriously I am not, just gotta lot of thoughts in my head tonight!! 

-reply by susanne

[iGuest 3]

Replying to (G)susanne I think what the point is in quantum mechanics is the multiverse or many worlds interpretation which suggests that there are infinite numbers of parallel universes which may have different rules such ashope, no death.I think also that our concept of reality is really important- if you believe in an afterlife where you'll see your son again then I think as you die you will create such a reality for eternity which is as good as it gets...This may have been what Jesus realised about death

 

[iGuest 3]

We are not a singularity, and are made of components. Soul same?How Is Life After Death Possible?

Each of our cells is a different entity in itself. Can it be said that they each will also have a spirit? Because these cells not only give us structure, but also govern our actions as living creatures by allowing us both conscious and subconscious thought. What's your take on this?

-reply by Bronson

[iGuest 3]

Time as a Newtonian conceptHow Is Life After Death Possible?

 Seeing that "time" as a concept doesn't seem to exist. 

Please stay with me,I'm referring to time as a concept not "time space". 

Seeing as our physical bodies are bound by this Newtonian concept,would it not make sense that after we shed our physical being we exist outwards of "time". 

If you look at Heisenberg's uncertainty principle,you notice that not only can electrons exist at more than one location at a time,but it's actually necessary.

So the sub-atomic particles(a soul) if you will,would be able to transcend the earthly concepts like physics,which is where quantum physics comes into play.

So as electrons would we not be able to exist after a shedding of our physical being?

It seems logical too me,that our actions impact the sub-atomic particles,thus making them our own.

Since the sub-atomic isn't bounded by earthly physics,our "soul" would be able to exist by "itself" without a physical manifestation.

 

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense,I'm only 16 and it's 5:06 a.M.

-reply by Andrew McClure