Christian Theism

[mitchellmckain 0]

Just a question for all the many many christians out there.  How exactly are your beliefs constructed?  For instance, I know many christians believe homosexuality is wrong due to passages in the bible, but the bible also outlaws all sorts of things (like shaving your beard) that nobody mentions.  Is there a reason for this?  Which parts are important and which aren't?

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Well christians are individual and diverse as non-christians. Which of these things you mention that they believe, their reasons for these beliefs and view of the bible all vary greatly. There are of course many who reflect less and simply repeat what they have been told, both christians and non-christians.

 

To respond respond with what my beliefs are personally would a repetition of many other threads. So I will respond to the question, "How are your beliefs constructed?", with this: My beliefs are constructed by exploring the possibilities with all that I have heard from many sources and my own imagination and then judging which of these seems most compatible with reality as I have experienced it.

 

And as I have explained in another thread that process tells me that homosexuality is an activity by choice and habit, not an illness (genetic or otherwise), not a sex like male or female, and not a race. It seems obvious therefore that the fight for gay-right can claim equal status with religious freedom but not with racial equality or woman's rights.

 

Whether homosexulity is a sin or not in some religion or other is only the concern of those who subscribe to them. But, the political battle in this country between the religious and the gay activists has reached the status of war where compromise seems to be a lost cause. The excesses of both sides have created an atmosphere of fear, where few feel comfortable with losing any ground.

[iGuest 3]

People think Christians believe gays are phonies but in fact, God made them that way. People like me who have ADHD were made that way by God for the sole reason so we would have thorns and would be more dependent on God. Let me explain, Paul wrote Phillippeans, the most joyful letter in the Bible when he was in prison!God teaches people love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control by showing them the opposite circumstances. God gave us thorns so we can depend on him, and he will use us for his purposes.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

And as I have explained in another thread that process tells me that homosexuality is an activity by choice and habit, not an illness (genetic or otherwise), not a sex like male or female, and not a race. It seems obvious therefore that the fight for gay-right can claim equal status with religious freedom but not with racial equality or woman's rights.

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Well, this view makes sense only if there isn't a genetic component to homosexuality. If there is a genetic component, especially a strong genetic component, then it is very much like racial equality and women's rights.

[mitchellmckain 0]

Well, this view makes sense only if there isn't a genetic component to homosexuality.  If there is a genetic component, especially a strong genetic component, then it is very much like racial equality and women's rights.

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Not really. Wouldn't it be a hoot if they isolated the gene responsible for a tendency to believe in God? Very nearly every aspect of human life has some genetic component, but that really isn't the question. The question is what is the determining factor. And it will never be proven that genetics is the determining factor in homosexuality because it simply isn't true. It is a fact of human existence that the human brain or mind is a many times more powerful influence in human behavior than anything genetic.

 

However, I think a genetic predisposition for homosexuality is impossible. It runs counter to the process of evolution. Such genetics could never evolve and in fact evolutionary pressure would be entirely in the other direction. But then as I said before, genetics does not play a deternining role in human behavior. Which explains perfectly why some human beings behave in a way that is completely contrary to our genetics and evolution.

[mitchellmckain 0]

Well, this view makes sense only if there isn't a genetic component to homosexuality.  If there is a genetic component, especially a strong genetic component, then it is very much like racial equality and women's rights.

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Here is another thought on the matter. If a so called homosexuality gene is found then a very large number of people would call it a genetic defect and treat it like an illness that ought to be cured. So I think that such a genetic predisposition is more likely to put homosexuality on an equal footing with the handicapped rather than with race or sex.

 

I also think that this will do even more harm to our society, not to mention the horrors of parental attempts to cure homosexuality which could never succeed, because as I said before, there is no way that genetics is the determining factor in homosexuality.

[mitchellmckain 0]

Well, this view makes sense only if there isn't a genetic component to homosexuality.  If there is a genetic component, especially a strong genetic component, then it is very much like racial equality and women's rights.

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You know, if there is a correlation between homosexuality and a genetic factor, I would bet that it derives from a gene that plays a completely opposite role. I think it possible that there is a gene which is responsible for a negative physiological reaction to homosexual activity. The existence of a gene like this makes perfect sense in the context of evolution. The result would be two populations. One with a strong bias towards heterosexuality and the other with a greater freedom of choice.

 

But personally, I think any such genetic factor cannot begin to compare to the power of psychology and experience. Bad experiences (single traumatic event or long term adversity) are quite capable of conditioning an adverse physiological response in sexuality. And of course, good experiences in non-sexual relationships or in sexual experimentation can condition positive physiological response. This phenomena is what I have been calling habit, and so I said that homosexuality is primarily a matter of choice and habit.

 

As for Christianity, the laws about what is or is not acceptible to God is not the most important thing. The point is supposed to be that the laws are for all intent and purpose, impossible to live up to, sufficient to avoid condemnation. The Bible is available to all to read and understand for themselves. So you can come to your own conclusion about what is acceptable. That understanding will surely be flawed, but there is an even greater dillemna. The fact is that you will find yourself failing to live up to the standards that even you agree with, as long as you don't keep adjusting what you think is right to make what every you do acceptable. Ultimately, it is this fundamental flaw in human nature, which the christian message is really aimed at.

[saneax 0]

All I can say/recommend wish all heed/understand...1) All the Religious scriptures says is .. Love God..2) there are instances that a commonly understood as unholy man is more closer to God than many of the so called holy people3) God Is not standing there with a rod in his hand with a desire to punish us. He Loves Us4)As long as you dont hurt others, you can be assured that God has a heart for you..God Bles thee all

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

All I can say/recommend wish all heed/understand...

1) All the Religious scriptures says is .. Love God..

2) there are instances that a commonly understood as unholy man is more closer to God than many of the so called holy people

3) God Is not standing there with a rod in his hand with a desire to punish us. He Loves Us

4)As long as you dont hurt others, you can be assured that God has a heart for you..

 

God Bles thee all

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I would like the world a lot more if everyone shared your view of the divine. As it is, I think you are the rarity, at least to the degree that you consider God a purely compassionate being.

[mitchellmckain 0]

I would like the world a lot more if everyone shared your view of the divine.  As it is, I think you are the rarity, at least to the degree that you consider God a purely compassionate being.

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Actually I think his view of the divine is a common one.

 

However, number 4 is unsupportable, because we all hurt people. If God loves anyone, then God loves all people regardless. I think that the differences between us which we make so much of in order to puff ourselves up, are pretty insignificant from the perspective of God.

 

I see myself with the same perspective as parent arbitrating in the fights between my two boys. They make much of insignificant differences in behavior which is bad both their cases. It gets to the point where you don't want to listen to this nonsense anymore. I think that no matter how grown up we like to think we are, from God's perspective we are all silly and childish.

 

I find it impossible to believe that this journey on which we have taken only the first step (like a toddler) can end here before it has hardly even begun. However, I think there has to be something other than God's love and approval involved in all this religion stuff. There must be something intrinsically wrong in the actions of evil, such that they carry consequences which have nothing to do with any judgement of God. It is the nature and lesson of life, that actions have consequences we have to live with. A God who loves us, like any parent, would surely try to warn us, but I have no doubt that in our immaturity we are misunderstanding and getting it all wrong.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

I find it impossible to believe that this journey on which we have taken only the first step (like a toddler) can end here before it has hardly even begun.  However, I think there has to be something other than God's love and approval involved in all this religion stuff.  There must be something intrinsically wrong in the actions of evil, such that they carry consequences which have nothing to do with any judgement of God.  It is the nature and lesson of life, that actions have consequences we have to live with.  A God who loves us, like any parent, would surely try to warn us, but I have no doubt that in our immaturity we are misunderstanding and getting it all wrong.

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This sounds a very good bit like karma, and the idea of rebirth. Or, if you believe in a soul, reincarnation.

[mitchellmckain 0]

This sounds a very good bit like karma, and the idea of rebirth.  Or, if you believe in a soul, reincarnation.

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Or rather it is like anyone no matter what his religion as long as he keeps one foot in reality and doesn't let ideology, theology or doctrine eat his thinking away until there is nothing left but a pie in the sky.

[iGuest 3]

Please bear in mind that the bible was written by a lot of people in a time where there was obviously a need for it. I fully understand the necessity for the bible at the time it was written but surely any reasonably intelligant person cannot believe in the bible or god nowadays. I would have hoped we were all a little bit more grown up in the 21st century.-Common sense

[iGuest 3]

About the whole homosexuality thing, God loves ALL, gay/white/black/striaght, ALL. many christians these days give other christians a bad name because they point the finger and insult everyone instead of analyzing they are also guilty in certain things. they cant see theyre just as guilty as others, but thats why US as a christian denomination shouldnt do those things. we don't want to walk like the christians, we want to walk like Christ. Forget about what christians say and study the Bible for yourselves if youre so curious. but always know this...the most important thing about the Bible isnt about *person*'s isnt about adultry or stealing, its the GOSPEL! the Good News that Jesus DIED, was BURIED, and God resurrected him on the 3rd day.and thats why he is our redeemer. and for those who think that resurrection, and God is farfetched, put it this way... If you're right and we christians are wrong, we lose nothing.but if we're right and your wrong, you lose everything.-krystal

[iGuest 3]

Are we really sitting so high on our high horse that we feel that we can call people out on their lives and their beliefs? Does it make people feel better to point a judgmental finger at someone as if you live a perfect and moral life. It is in our nature to sin, what ever it is; homosexuality, adultery, casting judgment on someone. However, God knew this and has given a way out, Matthew 5-7 Jesus' Sermon of the Mount clearly gives insight on how to live better lives. Whether you believe in a higher power or not, you can see throughout human history that looking down on people and cultures because of being different has bitten society on its pretensions butt. Because I am sure that a Gay woman or man wants to willingly be immoral, gross and evil; because we all strive for it, more so than striving to achieve that goodness that we were created with.-Danielle

[mitchellmckain 0]

One wonders how a topic entitled "Christian theism" ended up discussing the topic of homosexuality for the most part.

 

So true to the title of this thread, lets return to the topic of Christian theism with a few thoughts about the Christian idea of God.

 

Well one important thing to understand about the Christian idea of God is that He is the source of eternal life, and so to understand this God you need to understand this concept of eternal life.

 

I break it down to first consider, what is life and then what is eternal?

 

Life is certainly a big question for it is a lot of things, but in this context I think we must include an observation that life includes: growth, excitement, love, passion, creativity, challenges, wonder, learning, and service.

 

Eternal means unlimited, infinite and neverending.

 

Thus eternal life among other things must mean unlimited growth, infinite excitement, neverending creativity, unlimited love, infinite wonder, neverending challenges, unlimited passion, neverending learning and unlimited service!

 

But consider any of the things in life that we give our attention to and ask ourselves if any of these things are really something that can engage us for an eternity. Those who might come closest to saying yes are those who are involved in some creative process like art, writing novels or making movies for theirs is a work of creating new worlds for people to explore.

 

In this capacity to create new world of beauty and excitement is where we can most clearly see the infinite potential that is within us. And so we have little difficulty imagining that eternal life might be found in the realization of this infinite potentiality that we suspect is within us.

 

But even the artist, novelist and movie maker with a little thought will realize that all their creativity doesn't happen in a vacuum. All the creativity of these various artists must find inspiration from the world they live in. So by ourselves we must realize that such creative inspiration must ultimately have an end. But if we have each other to bounce our ideas off of, our creativity can certainly feed off each other in creative synergy. But it takes no great imagination to realize that since we are all finite beings even this must have an end, and that a vast portion of our inspiration comes not even from each other but from the world around us which is not of our own creation.

 

All the ideas and inspiration must ultimately be traced back to the source of this wondrous world that we live in, and so any hope for an eternal life must ultimately appeal to a creator that we believe to be infinite in His capacity for creativity and understanding. This is the God that Christians believe in: an infinite being who has the nature such that coming to know Him is a process that will never end. Furthermore we understand Him to be a being who created us for a relationship of love and that it is His greatest desire to give us gifts that we cannot even imagine. God is the one who can truly see the infinite potential that is within us. And the gifts that He has in store for us include unlimited growth, infinite excitement , neverending creativity, unlimited love, infinite wonder, neverending challenges, unlimited passion, neverending learning and a service that will never be unworthy of all that we can give in the infinite potential and creativity that He can bring to life in us.

 

One of the wondrous things about worshiping and infinite God is that there is no end to the ways that we can relate to Him and give our love to Him, for our worship of Him does not stop in praise nor end in song but can fill our lives in all the excitement, creativity and wonder that we can imagine only with His help.

Edited March 10, 2008 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)