Its Time For Windows Users To Switch. what do you think about this open letter

[koolmansam375 0]

Linux can and cant be hard to setup initially. Many Distros of Linux can parition the hard drive, setup the swap space, detect and configure your hardware all during setup (Red hat/fedora, knoppix, Mandrake, SUSE i think never used it). Others do some of that but have you partition manually and detect all your stuff but have you setup X yourself (Gentoo i think never used it, and Slackware (the best distro imho). Even the ones that do everything for you may rewuire a little tweaking.The problem comes when you have an old version of a lot of things, such as the kernel, kde, X, etc, and you feel the need to update everything even tho everything works perfectly fine. This is when you could potentially mess up your system to an unbootable state.Also, Windows is a fine OS as long as its protected with a firewall, virus checker/remover, spyware checker/remover, SP2, and Firefox. Many times the problem is not with the OS its that the user has installed something that he was unsure about. the problem is not the OS, in that case the PEBKAC.And for my stance on KDE vs GNOME. GNOME looks very nice however in some aspects it has limited functionality. KDE can (with Slackware it asks the first time you run it) be setup to use a variety of looks and feels. the KDE feel, MS feel, Mac feel or even BSD feel. There are also other wms such as xfce, fluxbox, dropline gnome, and enlightenment to name a few. If those are to MS you can always just use the CLI (i dont tho i use KDE)

[qwijibow 0]

This is when you could potentially mess up your system to an unbootable state.

atleast withGNU/linux its impossable to damage the system / get infected without first entering roots password.

Also, Windows is a fine OS as long as its protected with a firewall, virus checker/remover, spyware checker/remover, SP2, and Firefox.

all that maintenance.

thats whats so insulting about windows.... Zero securety. all these so called great tools like Adawar spybot and Virus Scanners.. these are temporary fixes which clean up the mess after your system has been owned.

prevention is better than the cure,

As for Desktop's I Like Gnome because its part of GNU/Linux, but kde is pretty cool too.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Compatibility with major vendors as well as reluntancy of people still largely contribute to the use of Windows in the software market. Most vendors still prefer to provide support for updates and patches to windows than other platform. With this, it is practically impossible to shift Microsoft Windows away and start making another OS prominent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was that drivers EXISTED. The problem was getting them to work.

 

Other than that, I agree. It would be nice if something that allowed true system independence like java (only having it work) would come out.

[qwijibow 0]

Which is why pages usually review driver, rather than simply state they exist.anyways, i dont disagree with what you are saying.anouther factor in why software developers dont target linux is... 1) if someon is using linux, they probably prefere the free solutions, 2) unlike windows and MacOSX there are sooo many variables.. Kenrel version, kernel patches, KDE FLUXBOX or GNOME, compiler ? optimisation flags...it would b impossable to suply any customer support... it would take hours finding out what versions or what is installed, ALSA or OSS, is kde compiled againsed LASO libraies.. what about cups, maybe cups s installed, but not linked to KDE... AGH ! nightmare.which is why Ut2004 has a penguuin logo, but no implication that it will work on linux.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Which is why pages usually review driver, rather than simply state they exist.

 

anyways, i dont disagree with what you are saying.

anouther factor in why software developers dont target linux is... 1) if someon is using linux, they probably prefere the free solutions, 2) unlike windows and MacOSX there are sooo many variables.. Kenrel version, kernel patches, KDE FLUXBOX or GNOME,  compiler ? optimisation flags...

 

it would b impossable to suply any customer support... it would take hours finding out what versions or what is installed, ALSA or OSS, is kde compiled againsed LASO libraies.. what about cups, maybe cups s installed, but not linked to KDE... AGH ! nightmare.

 

which is why Ut2004 has a penguuin logo, but no implication that it will work on linux.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the answer to all of this is for the linux community to sacrifice the thing they worship: choice. Get one of the GUIs, any of them will really do, and work to making it the defacto choice because it is the best for any personal computer. You know, something that will run fine on anything less than 5 or 6 years old. And build it to be user friendly and have good plug and play as primary features. Copy OSX stuff like services(even if they don't like the interface, copy the ideas behind it. Hell, improve it.).

 

If they build it, they will come.

[qwijibow 0]

And the answer to all of this is for the linux community to sacrifice the thing they worship: choice.

So true !

but you dont need to remove choice, just agree on standards. for example the display manager.
Some Linux Distro's use XFree86, some use Xorg, some use other, i forget the names...
some even use windows display managers like eXceed. but does KDE care what display manager you use... nope, because they all use a standardised X11 protocol.

There is a newly started project, i forgot the name, but it aims to standardise all the little things that vary between linux distro's. the things that cause almost no inconvininece, but may preventa redhat binary from being installed to gentoo.

everyone agrree's this is a good idea, when its finshed, and major distro's make themselves compatable with the theme, people will be able to make binary installers than truley install to any linux distro, just like how windows does it.

[iGuest 3]

MajesticTreeFrog,You are one of the many who has encountered the problems of Linux, Linux isn't for everyone, it's aimed at the very technically minded people. We'd like people to try Linux out, but we never force them to switch, you'd find that the people who work on Linux like to boost about their products, but that's normal advertising in their case, they then have these followers who bow down to Linux as their idols, these are usually the ones who try converting people, not Linux in general.I tell people to give Linux a try, even if you want to learn more indepth about your computer, software and hardware, but again, you must have the low level knowledge, or the ability to learn this. Don't end all hopes with Linux yet, give it a few years and try it out again, or test out another Distribution, Chances are if you can boot Linux from a Knoppix Live CD which is based on Debian, and support for your hardware is detected, and all your hard drives including NT file system drives are found, then chances are Linux will work for you, but you'll have to be the one to make it work for you unfortunately.One day Linux will be user friendly, but getting it to work in the first place is a lot of their priorities, with no manufacturer support, vendor support or hardware releases, people are working even harder than the people at MS, who probably have a red carpet to all the information they need. Just be amazed by how hard they've worked so far to get where they are now, and just be amazed that they'll be continuing to do this with or without anyones help.They are doing this out of goodwill, and for their own recognition. You can't please everyone, but you are pleasing some.MC

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

MajesticTreeFrog,

 

You are one of the many who has encountered the problems of Linux, Linux isn't for everyone, it's aimed at the very technically minded people.  We'd like people to try Linux out, but we never force them to switch, you'd find that the people who work on Linux like to boost about their products, but that's normal advertising in their case, they then have these followers who bow down to Linux as their idols, these are usually the ones who try converting people, not Linux in general.

 

I tell people to give Linux a try, even if you want to learn more indepth about your computer, software and hardware, but again, you must have the low level knowledge, or the ability to learn this.  Don't end all hopes with Linux yet, give it a few years and try it out again, or test out another Distribution, Chances are if you can boot Linux from a Knoppix Live CD which is based on Debian, and support for your hardware is detected, and all your hard drives including NT file system drives are found, then chances are Linux will work for you, but you'll have to be the one to make it work for you unfortunately.

 

One day Linux will be user friendly, but getting it to work in the first place is a lot of their priorities, with no manufacturer support, vendor support or hardware releases, people are working even harder than the people at MS, who probably have a red carpet to all the information they need.  Just be amazed by how hard they've worked so far to get where they are now, and just be amazed that they'll be continuing to do this with or without anyones help.

 

They are doing this out of goodwill, and for their own recognition.  You can't please everyone, but you are pleasing some.

MC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. Please don't interpret what I have said an linux hate or something of that sort. It is mainly in reaction to the topic, which is that it is time to switch. What I am saying is really, that its ALMOST time to switch. I look forward to that time.

 

Similarly, most of what I have said is regarding linux as a day to day desktop OS for regular users. For advanced users, and admins, and servers, etc, I think it is currently quite good.

 

When I get into discussions, I often play the devils advocate. So, please interpret my statements similarly.

[cryptonx 0]

".... One day Linux will be user friendly .... " please notify me then

[koolmansam375 0]

unlike windows and MacOSX there are sooo many variables.. Kenrel version, kernel patches, KDE FLUXBOX or GNOME,  compiler ? optimisation flags...

 

it would b impossable to suply any customer support... it would take hours finding out what versions or what is installed, ALSA or OSS, is kde compiled againsed LASO libraies.. what about cups, maybe cups s installed, but not linked to KDE... AGH ! nightmare.

 

which is why Ut2004 has a penguuin logo, but no implication that it will work on linux.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I beleive this is what they call "dependency hell"

 

Also nVidia is making a step in the right direction with their driver which (on any distro) you type one command and itll install. You just have to make sure some parts of xorg.conf are setup right.

 

For Xorg and XFree: Xfree86 is for the older versions of X. It was transferred to Xorg andd they changed the names of all the files to Xorg. Thats why in a topic on linuxquestions.org in the Slackware forum, people got confused 'cuz they couldnt find xfreeconfig when they really needed xorgconfig.

 

And for binaries, many distros offer some form of binary package. Redhat based have RPMs. Debian based has debs. Gentoo has emerge. And Slack has tgzs.

 

And last, about choice, choice is what makes linux better than Windows in certain aspects. In windows the only internet broser used to be IE. Linux had like 5 browsers. Windows has notepad. Linux has emacs, vi, vim, pico, nedit (if you install it yourself). And with the distros some people like point-click-install-run others like issuing commands directly. Its all a matter of taste.

[qwijibow 0]

I wouldnt call that dependancy hell.its just an extra piece of info... for example, the answer to "why is my sound soo quiet" the solution may depend on wether you have ALSA or OSS, alsamixer for alsa, aumix for oss.dependency hell, somthing which has almost vanished in some distro'sijn the days of redhat9, not too long ago, newbs b1tched about it, then project like apt-get and yum jumped up. and i switched to Gentoo... Portage dosnt know the meaning of dependency hell :)As for Xfree... it didnt just change to Xorg. XFree85 changes its licence, many peopl didnt like the new licence, and some dont even consider it to be "Open Source". So the Project Forked, Xfree86 and Xorg.Xorg kept the old licence, wone over almost all the developers, and as a result has taken over as th leading X11 manager on most distro's and has some funky features like the Composite manager.

[Ryan1405241476 0]

I will never leave windows, it is the best, it has all the viruses and stuff cause thats what they are written for being that it is the most widley used operating system today, if that were to somehow strangley change to say mac or linix then virus makers would start to make viruses for that os.as for holes, reslly windows update fixes them, they are too huge, every os has holes, this just sounds like propaganda for linux, but their is no reason what so ever to switch.

[qwijibow 0]

I will never leave windows, it is the best, it has all the viruses and stuff cause thats what they are written for being that it is the most widley used operating system today, if that were to somehow strangley change to say mac or linix then virus makers would start to make viruses for that os.as for holes, reslly windows update fixes them, they are too huge, every os has holes, this just sounds like propaganda for linux, but their is no reason what so ever to switch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats a very common and misguided stance.

 

there is no preventaive securety in windows, thats why you get virii, and need to fix the porblems.

there is no damage limitation in windows, which is why when you are compromised, the virus has complete control over your system.

 

people are always trying to write linux virii, think about it, the first linux epidemic, the script kiddie who wrote it would be famous.

 

Virii cannot exist in linux without the root password, if a virus tried to infect a file on my computer... well, i will show you

bash-2.05b$ echo "I am viral code" >> /boot/kernel-2.6.9-gentoo-r14bash: /boot/kernel-2.6.9-gentoo-r14: Permission denied

if you did that on windows, your kernel would be compromised, your system rooted, and a 12 year old in holland would now own your computer.

 

Can you Read and Write in Hexadecimal machine code ???

nope... so why does windows give everyone write access to libraries / programs / system tools...

 

any computer scientist will tell you that the structiore of windows OS is embarasingly poor.

 

No OS is without its holes, but have a look at an ancestor of linux..... http://www.openbsd.org/

 

Free Functional and secure since 1995

Only one remote hole in the default install, in more than 8 years!

now... let me ask you this.... has windows EVER... released an OS without a remote securety hole ???

WindowsXP Sp2 was secure for a week or 2 before they started findinf#g holes.. wasnt it ?

 

like i said, windows track record is pittiful.

[Ryan1405241476 0]

a virsu could bypass that easily, the problem with linux is its open souce so a virus writer can find out how to compromize it easier. Linix has holes too. every os does,

[qwijibow 0]

a virsu could bypass that easily, the problem with linux is its open souce so a virus writer can find out how to compromize it easier.  Linix has holes too.  every os does,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well.. no.

just no.

 

a virus, running with no privilages could bypass access rights, hard coded into the kernel ???

you are making no sence.