Death Penalty

[sheepdog 10]

By now I'm sure all of you have heard about the nut job that shot all those people at a political meeting.(unless you have been living under a rock) One congresswoman, Gabrielle Gifford was shot at close range, in the head, she is still alive, but no one knows how much damage was done to her. The shooter, Jason Lee Lougner went into the crowd and opened fire. 6 dead and 14 wounded. One of the dead victoms was a nine year old girl. How horrific and sad is that?Now, in my own mind, I can see being pissed off at an elected official or even a judge, but I fail to understand how anybody could walk into a crowd and just open fire on everyone there. I would like for someone who doesn't believe in the death penelty to explain to me why we should allow this peice of human garbage to live. I understand some of the arguments against the death penelty, for example in the event they aren't for sure if the person actually commited the crime they are acused of. But in this case Jason Lee Lougner was tackled by some brave souls while he was in the process of shooting people, so there is no doubt as to his guilt. And as I already said, I can understand how in a flash of anger a person who was otherwise a good and stable person could kill a single person who had seriously pised them off. Even if it was an accident, if you clobbered somebody only intending to hurt them and they died for some freaky reason, like fell and hit their head I could see not giving them the death penelty.But this guy was a complete lunatic. He had been in trouble in the past, everyone that knew him thought he was a freak. He had threatened other people in the past too. Why should we allow somebody like this to continue to waste the earths oxygen? Keeping in mind that as long as he is alive, there would be a chance that he could procreate, and therefore pass his genetic deficiencies on to another generation. So, try to convince me he should live.

[Parubilla 0]

I have mix feelings when I think about death penalty, because first I think that death penalty is like granting a wish to that person, because they are not going to suffer having to live a life behind bars and thinking about what they did and being punish for it everyday in their life, but on the other hand I think that is also a person that does not deserve anything, not the money the government spend every year in food, medicine, just to keep him alive, so it's really hard to think of a punishment worth for that person, sometimes I think about them being torture until they die, but then the human rights come in saying how human life needs to be respect always, but does this person respected human life?, being hired to kill someone or killing someone by your own will I'm not defending it but it's not the same as come to a place and shoot indiscriminately to a bunch of people, that's just having no feelings at all for anything, so for me that's a person that deserve all the bad things in the world.

[q9c9p 0]

Well, I heard this story on the italian news a little and I did not pay much attention...I don't want to look like the guy that tries to find excuses for what this guy did, but...why did he do that? how did he get to that point? did he had a good childhood? What is the background?Let me tell than in my opinion this guy is just the fruit of a sick society...but please don't think I'm a comunist or something like that...don't be naive and tag me...I'm just about freedom...How did he got the weapons? Ah yeah...in US you have the right to have weapons...How is it possible that in 2011 we are still talking about war, alliances, terrorism, economy...isn't about time that we evolve past this stuff?Again, I'm not trying to excuse this guy, he should have 10 life sentences ( like in Italy you can sum up life sentences like the Red Brigade that get one life sentence for each person killed, makes no sense but that's italy ), he should be employed as forced labour and then left in isolation all the time he is not working.But still, why can't other people see the background of all ( or almost all ) evilness on earth? This society is sick, first off because of capitalism, second because of politics and handing over responsibilities to third parties, third because of the military class, fourth because of the military industries that goes hand in hand with other industries and fifth because of extremist religious belief.We really descend from apes, there is no intelligent design and this is just a proof of the concept.Apologize me if I went a bit off topic, but this is a greater topic than what it look like.Ciao,q9c9p

[anwiii 17]

i used to be for the death penalty. really hard nosed. eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. i also would kill someone with my bare hands if someone killed my family. or worse yet, my neice. i learned a lot about life since then about life....and in this case, society(at least in the united state). i am against the death penalty now. you are correct. one of my reasons was that there have been innocent people who died because our justice system isn't perfect. it's really so easy for people to believe in the death penalty. "oh. he killed someone? he should die too". you know what's sad? people can say and believe in those things without even knowing the person at all. just judge him fully on something he did was bad or inexcusable. anyone who believes in the death penalty basically believes we have a right to live as long as we don't kill anyone but then all those rules we have for someone who kills gets thrown out the window when we send teenagers and people in their 20's off to war in a different country with no other m.o. but to kill. i guess it's ok if it's done in another country when we can give some logical reason like "it's our patriotic duty". in my opinion, those people are nothing but hypocrites.fact is, we DON'T know these people who have killed. in life, we were were never born to take care of ourselves. our parents raised us, and in a big way, society in general raises our kids. for the most part, as they grow up, they are influenced by how they were raised. it's really easy to say that if parents fail our children or society fails our children, we should excute those people. we shouldn't take ANY responsibility for them whatsoever. the thinking behind this is that we can argue that they were adults. they had a brain. THEY chose to commit the act.let me give you a scenario. a little girl is ready to go to bed and is tucked in by her mother at night. as she clutches her favorite stuffed animal while trying to go to sleep, and after her mother is out of the room, her father comes in and rapes this girl. in fact, he's been raping her every few days for a couple years now. he hurt her and made her bleed. after another year of this going on, the father is arrested and sentenced to let's say 20 years. what a dispicable human being to do such a thing to someone so innocent. this little girl grows up, but not in a normal way like all the other girls out there. not like her friends. her friends seem happy. this girl starts getting old enough to date an even have sexual relationship with other guys. well one day, after dating this guy for a year, she finally decides it's time to make love to him. she didn't want to before because of her terrible past. in fact, she learned to hate men because of what they did to her and how they made her feel. but she gives in to the idea of making love. not for her, but for this guy that may leave her if she is unable to make love or have sex. well they do, and she ends up killing him afterwards. evidently, she suffered from ptsd, depression, anxiety, and a few other things nobody helped her with after she was tramautized by her father. while the guy was being gentle with her thinking it was her first time because she was never able to admit she was consistantly raped by her own father, she had a flashback. she didn't see this guy. she saw her father......but now she was old enough and strong enough to stop him....and she did! but she didn't stop her father. she took the last breath away from someone she was trying to love but was unable to because of her past. because of how she was raised by her parents and because society failed her in getting her the help she needed. all people who believe in the death penalty will kill this girl. she took an innocent life. while her father got 20 years, she gets death.my whole point is that we don't even know these people that we are judging and determine that they have absolutely no right to live. we aren't taking in to consideration extenuating circumstances that might explain how they they and why they think the way they do. we don't take in to consideration that the father in the above case example probably deserves to die before this girl.our laws can dictate that we can lose our jobs, we can lose our homes, and we can get thrown out on the streets, but we are still expected to act normal like none of those devestating things ever happened. a homeless man is sometimes moved to the edge of town and told not to return, or moved to a location where people are living in cardboard boxes. a place so remote, hardly anyone ever goes there or even notices how some people are forced to live sometimes. society doesn't want any part of these people. they are probably good people but are treated like outcasts. a lot of these people see no hope and they start doing drugs to cope because the drugs in that part of town are everywhere. so they pay for them by washing windows as a car is stopped at a stop light. they get humiliated by a lot of people when these people to tell them to get away or tell these homeless people to get a job and stop acting like a bum. their WHOLE being and character is beaten down by society when in the end, sometimes they lose themselves completely and have a hard time finding themselves again. oh there is hope, but they can't help themselves by themselves anymore. so one day, in the wintertime when it's cold and they haven't eaten in a week because there no money to be found on the streets and no passing cars to wash windows, they decide to steal some food at the local little store just to survive. there owner of the store notices the crime and there is a struggle and the owner winds up dead and the homeless man is allowed to live another day by grabbing the food he needed to do so.the reason why i don't believe in the death penalty and never will again, is because the death penalty is a selfish act and is based on 1 act that is commited by someone else without really trying to understand who these people really are. everyone makes mistakes. sure, taking a life is almost an unforgivable act, but it's still considered a mistake. everyone makes them. it's just the degree of our mistakes in how other people will judge us. but when people judge others, they judge by a specific act.....not really judging the person as a whole. for example. some women dress provocotavely and sometimes these women get raped. well the person who knew how she dressed will think that maybe she deserved it. people judged her as a **** just be looking at the way she dressed. people who believe in the death penalty think the same way. they think on the surface of things and are too lazy to dig a little deeper to look at the WHOLE picture. the surface of any person and the mistakes they make have absolutely NOTHING to do with the person as a whole.this is my MAIN reason that i don't believe in the death penalty. there are other logical and legitimate reason. my reasoning above certainly isn't my only reason, but it is my main reason. people are blind to the real truth. sometimes people see only what they want to see at any given time. oh. this guy walked in and killed some people. "i don't need to know wny more than that to know this person deserves to die". people who believe in the death penalty are not objective human benings. they are subjective to what they want to see or how they were raised to see.you know the funny things? our states are allowed to sentence someone to death, but if someone killed their daughter, if they take the law in to their own hands with premeditation of killing someone who was going to be sentenced to death anyway, these people will get arrested and charged with murder. so in fact, it's ok for the goverment to kill, but it's not ok for citizens of the government to kill. where is the logic? there is none. in fact, there is very LITTLE logic behind the death penalty. the death penalty is fed through emotions. not logical thinking at all. emotions have no brains. everyone knows that....so why judge through emotions or create laws out of emotions?we used to have the death penalty in every state of the united states at one point. the reason why most states don't impliment the death penalty is that we have come a long way to learn and to realize things. the death penalty or no death penalty is a tradeoff. there are pros and cons to each. i'll tell you one thing though, believing in the death penalty is easy. when we have a death penalty system, we learn absolutely nothing in or about life or the people in our society. it's too easy. life isn't about making easy decisions. this is what i have learned throughout the years. the easy way is not usually the best way. we can't just live on the surface, we have to uncover the layers to TRUELY understand and judge correctly.a big part of life is to HELP people, not put them to death because nobody has the time to truely get to know a "murderer" or even a girl who dresses provocotively because when she gets raped, she'll deserve it or was asking for it. she doesn't deserved to be judged that way and a person who kills doesn't deserve to be judged that way either.make no mistake, murder is WRONG and there has to be consequences. but the consequences to any one thing should NEVER be to turn your back on people......EVER!

[sheepdog 10]

How did he got the weapons? Ah yeah...in US you have the right to have weapons...

Ah yes, fortunatly, we do still have that right in the USA. It's too bad more people don't exercise that right too. If a few more people were packing heat, maybe somebody else could of shot that sucker before he killed so many other people!

[sheepdog 10]

Excellent post anwii, some good points, but you haven't convinced me yet. You have given examples of why in many cases, the death penelty should not be given. Granted, a young woman who had lived her life in such emptioal trama being raped by her father would have to be granted special consideration at a trial. Same goes for the killing of someone who had killed a dear family member. This is the reason we have trials by groups of our peers, to prevent vigalantee justice. This is why we allow our government to kill and not allow individuals to make life/death decisions about other individuals. At a trial, everything is done to do what you say we don't do, to learn the circumstance of the killers life, any good defence lawyer will bring to the atttention of the court every horrible thing that has happened to the acused in his entire life. So really, we do get to know that person.

a big part of life is to HELP people, not put them to death because nobody has the time to truely get to know a "murderer"

Ok, how could we help somebody like this? Remember, I am talking about on specific case here. Not talking about how a starving bum on the street should be treated for stealing a package of hot dogs at a grocery store. I mean a person who would march right into a crowd of people and open fire, indiscriminatly killing anybody in frout of his gun. I don't believe it is a selfish act to want to remove such a danger from society. Would you want to take the chance on his rehabilatation? Should we try to help him and then turn him loose again to see if he would be a good boy and become a productive member of society, or if he would slaughter another big group of people? Would you really want to take that chance?

[filmdesire 0]

I do believe in the civil existence of the death penalty. The issue arises when the subject is mentally unstable, and once proven, he is susceptible to the death penalty, both in the religion I believe in, and according to the western laws of civilisation.I once saw a documentary my social studies tutor in school showed me, where a group of men kidnapped and raped a young teenage girl repeatedly. During these episodes she died, and postmortem studies showed that she was repeatedly raped even after she died.Her rapists weren't caught, except just one. The girls father told the sheriff that he would shoot him - himself with his own shotgun if he was let free by the courts. Luckily for her father, the man was sentenced to death by the county. Even before he was shocked to death he smiled at her father behind the screen, when her father willed to see him die.People like that are not mean't to live with civilised people. People who pass various tests and psychiatry exams. People who are fit to act civil, but fail to. Religiously, forgiveness is above all, even for murder, forgiveness is ever great. And leaves the wrong-doer with an even bigger court sentence, also religion acknowledges mans guilt, and forgiveness and repentance can prove a good change for the wrong-doer. If the wrong-doer finds salvation in religion or spirituality, then the reward of it will pass on to you. However an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth, which both the Bible, Torah, and Quran provide option for, for family of the victim, is a permissible act. Today America supposedly bases its law on God, therefore keeping the phrase 'in God we trust' - alive. Therefore many of the states in the USA believe in the death penalty.

[anwiii 17]

it's true that my emotions would tell me to let certain people be put to death. a good example would be if someone killed a family member of mine whether or not it was justified.there is more than making decisions on emotions though. in my opinion, there is only one justifiable reason to kill and that is for self defense if someone is assaulting you with deadly force.society has made it justifiable to kill someone because of the emotions of others. this is unacceptable and barbaric. we now live in a time where we have more knowledge to help people who are dysfuctional in society and within the laws society sets. there ARE ways to help these people before they commit such acts and even after they commit such acts.i know i am treading on a thin line of what is right and wrong and not many would accept my point of view, but it's only because those people don't know any better and they give in to believing killing people is acceptable. what i have to say isn't even limited to someone who kills another human being. it extends to other people as well who have fallen short like drug dealers,rapists, etc....i'm not really looking at this situation as a law issue because i don't believe in a lot of laws that are passed. i am looking at this issue from a moral standpoint. basically, it's in a nations best interest financially to execute someone rather than help them because it costs time and money to help people effectively.the basic question i would like to ask though is that if someone kills someone illegally, what is morally right? to kill that person or to help that person be a productive citizen? or is it better for criminals to be punished in jail only to commit the same crimes when they get out, or truely try to rehabilitate them the RIGHT way? most people who commit crimes or immoral acts don't have a life anyway so how is jail punishment?what i am ultimately saying is our system is flawed, but the peole living within the system are feeding in to it and not standing up to what is truely right. death penalty is nothing new. instead of choping someone's head off, we are injecting them with a poison. why not keep choping heads off? because society deemed it unacceptable. so basically we drew a line over time of what is right from wrong. killing someone is ok, but how you kill someone might not be ok.in the united states, we have currency on it that clearly states "in god we trust". so i have to ask, in god we trust for what? isn't it him who judges what is right from wrong and lays down his own laws? anyone who believes in him clearly knows that he brings life so why do people think it's up to them to take life away and not trust in god to judge these people in his own time? i am not really a religious person, but when "in god we trust" is printed on our currency and god was implimented in our pledge of allegience, religion plays a role in this somewhat since the majority of people living in the world believe in god.i have said it before and i will say it again.... if we can't help people in society but rather take the easy way out, then we learn nothing about life and the potential inside us all, and that is truely a shame!

[filmdesire 0]

it's true that my emotions would tell me to let certain people be put to death. a good example would be if someone killed a family member of mine whether or not it was justified.
there is more than making decisions on emotions though. in my opinion, there is only one justifiable reason to kill and that is for self defense if someone is assaulting you with deadly force.

society has made it justifiable to kill someone because of the emotions of others. this is unacceptable and barbaric. we now live in a time where we have more knowledge to help people who are dysfuctional in society and within the laws society sets. there ARE ways to help these people before they commit such acts and even after they commit such acts.

i know i am treading on a thin line of what is right and wrong and not many would accept my point of view, but it's only because those people don't know any better and they give in to believing killing people is acceptable. what i have to say isn't even limited to someone who kills another human being. it extends to other people as well who have fallen short like drug dealers,rapists, etc....

i'm not really looking at this situation as a law issue because i don't believe in a lot of laws that are passed. i am looking at this issue from a moral standpoint. basically, it's in a nations best interest financially to execute someone rather than help them because it costs time and money to help people effectively.

the basic question i would like to ask though is that if someone kills someone illegally, what is morally right? to kill that person or to help that person be a productive citizen? or is it better for criminals to be punished in jail only to commit the same crimes when they get out, or truely try to rehabilitate them the RIGHT way? most people who commit crimes or immoral acts don't have a life anyway so how is jail punishment?

what i am ultimately saying is our system is flawed, but the peole living within the system are feeding in to it and not standing up to what is truely right. death penalty is nothing new. instead of choping someone's head off, we are injecting them with a poison. why not keep choping heads off? because society deemed it unacceptable. so basically we drew a line over time of what is right from wrong. killing someone is ok, but how you kill someone might not be ok.

in the united states, we have currency on it that clearly states "in god we trust". so i have to ask, in god we trust for what? isn't it him who judges what is right from wrong and lays down his own laws? anyone who believes in him clearly knows that he brings life so why do people think it's up to them to take life away and not trust in god to judge these people in his own time? i am not really a religious person, but when "in god we trust" is printed on our currency and god was implimented in our pledge of allegience, religion plays a role in this somewhat since the majority of people living in the world believe in god.

i have said it before and i will say it again.... if we can't help people in society but rather take the easy way out, then we learn nothing about life and the potential inside us all, and that is truely a shame!

Well, I do agree with most of the points you've put forward. But lets be reminded, there are people out there who have turned away from treatment, and rehabilitation. A person does not become a murderer over night. It is a slow and quite frankly, you say barbaric, and I bet it was a barbaric process. Often starts from drugs, to petty crime, moves on to violence and car theft, and one day, you manage to rid someones life.

To a family member, I think God himself provides them a right to avenge or forgive. God no longer is involved in the judgement as far as this earth goes, that is the common belief in all the main religions. Otherwise God himself would seem unjust. God provides this option. And I suppose only one who loses a daughter, a wife, a son, mother or carer would understand the hurt.

I don't believe someone has to die for a criminal to find the right path. If all criminals did that, this world would be a very different place today. And fair-do's to those who do find the right path after committing a horrific crime, but the state is NOT going to fund rehabilitation of a murderer, a serial rapist, especially one with a history of crime. It is after all our tax money that pays for such services, and to pay for a service, and lose a life, is too heavy-a-cost for many of the nations moral stand-point and financial cost.

I hope you can understand what I'm trying to convey...