Christian Universalism Not all Christians will condemn you to Hell for eternity

[byronarnold 0]

(Scripture quotations are taken from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (ESV).)

Christian Universalism says that by God's grace through Jesus Christ's sacrifice, ALL will eventually be saved. This was a prevalent view in the early church, and many of the church fathers believed it. But orthodoxy was established in 325 C.E. at Nicea. And since then, it has been heresy to believe in Christian Universalism.

But lets take a look at what the Bible says about it. Please notice the word "all" in the following scriptures:

1 Cor 15:22: "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."
Col 1:19-20: "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."

Rom 5:18: "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men."

Rom 11:32: "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."

ALL means ALL. I don't think there is anyway to limit its meaning to just "some". I think from these scriptures its pretty clear that God plans to save everyone!

This is only a sampling of the scriptures found that support the idea of Christian Universalism. For more, watch this video: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

[knoppixusr 0]

Take a look at this these verses in Hebrews. Please keep this in context as Hebrews is addressing the sin
of rejecting of the Holy Spirit and not the normal sin all Christians commit again. Basically the unforgivable sin.

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV  For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,  (5)  and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,  (6)  and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Other verses that talk about the unpardonable sin.

Matthew 12:31-32 says, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will beforgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."Luke 12:10 says, "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone whoblasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."Mark 3:28-30 Most certainly I tell you, [u]all sins of the descendants of man will be forgiven[/u], includingtheir blasphemies with which they may blasphe me (29) but whoever may blaspheme against the Holy Spirit [u]never has forgiveness[/u], but is guilty of an eternal sin" (30) -because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."

Regarding 1 Cor 15:22: I interpret this verse like this. all referring to all types, nations and race.
Only in Christ all shall be made alive. That excludes everyone who is not in Christ. Basicly the point of the verse is
that through one man everyone dies and through one man everyone has to be saved. It does not mean everyone
will be saved otherwise it clashes with allot of other verses in the bible.

What do you think of Jesus's parable of the 10 virgins ? Does it not conflict with your viewpoint ?
Edited January 30, 2010 by knoppixusr (see edit history)

[byronarnold 0]

There is a judgement after death for those who have not achieved salvation. The New Testament makes that very clear. But, in light of the scriptures that say that all will be reconciled to God, I believe that this judgement is only temporary. I personally believe it to be based upon your sins. For example, Hitler will have a greater punishment than a common thief. The thief will have a greater punishment than someone who just told fibs here and there. After the punishment, they will be reconciled to God.

 

Here are some more verses that support Universalism:

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those

who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the

resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all

will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits,

after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end,

when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has

abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until

He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be

abolished is death. (I Cor. 15:20-26)

 

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth,

visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or

authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He

is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head

of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from

the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in

Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made

peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether

things on earth or things in heaven. (Col. 1:15-20)

 

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope

on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of

believers. (1 Tim. 4:10)

 

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only,

but also for those of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

 

And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under

the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To

Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and

glory and dominion forever and ever." (Rev. 5:13)

 

But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of

the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the

grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like

that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:15-21)

 

...being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:8-11.)

 

In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will,

according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to

an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the

summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things

upon the earth (Ephesians 1:8b-10)

 

For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to

all. (Romans 11:32)

 

Even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You

have given Him, He may give eternal life. (John 17:2)

[truefusion 3]

ALL means ALL. I don't think there is anyway to limit its meaning to just "some". I think from these scriptures its pretty clear that God plans to save everyone!

All here means "all in Christ." This is obvious from the first three verses you quoted (1 Cor 15:22 and Col 1:19-20)—the other two quotes don't show anything you are trying to prove either. This contradicts any "Christian Universalism" of "all will be saved." This means you have at your first attempt failed to prove "Christian Universalism."

After the punishment, they will be reconciled to God.

Hell is an everlasting thing, as quoted by Jesus (and as mentioned many other places). You say you are using the ESV, so i'll use it too to quote Jesus's statement: Matthew 25:41. Note the word "everlasting."

Here are some more verses that support Universalism:

You have already used the first underlined one and that one doesn't show what you are trying to show. You have already used the second underlined one, and, again, did not show what you are trying to show. 1 John 2:2 says that salvation is available to all, but that does not mean that they are already given salvation. It is merely available to them if they want it. Rev. 5:13 doesn't deal with anything that you are talking about. Romans 5:15-21, the context of the underlined passage show that salvation requires Christ—Paul is saying nothing different than what he has been so preaching. Phil. 2:8-11 doesn't show what you are trying to show, rather Paul is stating one of the reasons why God picked Jesus to be the atonement for all who are willing to accept him. Ephesians 1:8b-10 is stating how God's plan was to end and be complete at the coming of Christ—that Christ was the final piece to the puzzle. Romans 11:32 does not show what you are trying to prove, rather, if context be given, it requires the individual to request for mercy. John 17:2 states that Christ has the authority to forgive sin, but it doesn't state that he will forgive everyone.
The early church that is mentioned within the New Testament does not promote Christian Universalism. They assume an eternally lasting hell, they assume all can be saved through Christ alone, and other things that many today believe.

[byronarnold 0]

The Grek word for "eternal" (and its cognates such as "forever") does not signify "eternal". There is no Biblical Greek term that matches with our conception of "eternal". The Greek word is "aion" which signifies an undetermined amount of time. A better translation than "eternal" is "age-enduring" (compare the Young's Literal Translation of the Bible. Also, see this page for more information on "aion"). What most translations translate as "eternal punishment" is better translated as "age-enduring correction", since in the Greek the word for punishment (kolasis) refers to corrective punishment. This makes sense, since God is our Father. A Father does not punish children just to punish them, but to correct and teach them.

 

Romans 5:18, which I quoted above, seems to me very clear as supporting Christian Universalism. The context (Please read Romans 5:12-21) shows that they are talking about all human beings , not just those in Christ. And, according to this passage, Jesus' "one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men."

[truefusion 3]

The Grek word for "eternal" (and its cognates such as "forever") does not signify "eternal". There is no Biblical Greek term that matches with our conception of "eternal". The Greek word is "aion" which signifies an undetermined amount of time. A better translation than "eternal" is "age-enduring" (compare the Young's Literal Translation of the Bible. Also, see this page for more information on "aion"). What most translations translate as "eternal punishment" is better translated as "age-enduring correction", since in the Greek the word for punishment (kolasis) refers to corrective punishment.

I have seen this argument before. However, if i am to be convinced that "aion" (and "aionios") should not ever be considered as "everlasting" or something similar, i would require sources (preferably objective) that doesn't, after all it mentions, basically mean, "it depends on context." Likewise, "age-enduring:" am i supposed to assume this means it will come to an end? If it endures the ages, shouldn't it be more logical to assume that it doesn't come to an end?

 

This makes sense, since God is our Father. A Father does not punish children just to punish them, but to correct and teach them.

Note that this sonship that we have with God was obtained through Christ (John 1:12). Likewise note in John 1:12 that it is for those who would (did) receive Christ. Receiving here requires a conscious act by the person (as explicitly mentioned by the context): they must willingly accept Christ themselves; it is not something that is given to them regardless of their desires.

 

Romans 5:18, which I quoted above, seems to me very clear as supporting Christian Universalism. The context (Please read Romans 5:12-21) shows that they are talking about all human beings , not just those in Christ. And, according to this passage, Jesus' "one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men."

Yes, Jesus's act can justify all men, but as explicitly mentioned by Romans 5:17 and 5:21, this requires Christ, therefore anyone who does not have Christ will not be justified.

[byronarnold 0]

I have seen this argument before. However, if i am to be convinced that "aion" (and "aionios") should not ever be considered as "everlasting" or something similar, i would require sources (preferably objective) that doesn't, after all it mentions, basically mean, "it depends on context." Likewise, "age-enduring:" am i supposed to assume this means it will come to an end? If it endures the ages, shouldn't it be more logical to assume that it doesn't come to an end?

There is a phrase that Jesus uses throughout Matthew (13:39, 49; 24:3; 28:20): the end of the aion. Obviously, if aion has an end, it cannot mean eternity. Aionios is the adjective form of aion, referring not to eternal but to a time period covered by aion. Hence the translation I offered above: age-enduring.

 

Yes, Jesus's act can justify all men, but as explicitly mentioned by Romans 5:17 and 5:21, this requires Christ, therefore anyone who does not have Christ will not be justified.

Yes, Christ's action was necessary for the justification of all men. I never denied that. I in fact agree with Paul when he says:

 

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

I also agree with Paul when he says:

 

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Romans 2:9-11)

Paul says that all it takes to be saved is to confess and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord. He also says that everyone will do that. Obviously, then, everyone will be saved! I am not saying that there won't be judgement in the Lake of Fire for those who have died in their sins, but I am saying that that judgement is not eternal for anyone except Satan and his fallen angels! Those of us who accept Jesus in this life will bypass that punishment for our sins. Those who don't will go through that punishment. But after that there will be no doubt in their minds that Jesus is Lord, and that he died so that they may eventually be reconciled to God. They will, at that moment, confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God

 

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

If he is patient, then why must that patience end at death? I mean, what is the point in a kolasis (Greek for corrective punishment) after death if it is not to rehabilitate the soul and lead to its reconciliation with God?

[truefusion 3]

There is a phrase that Jesus uses throughout Matthew (13:39, 49; 24:3; 28:20): the end of the aion. Obviously, if aion has an end, it cannot mean eternity. Aionios is the adjective form of aion, referring not to eternal but to a time period covered by aion. Hence the translation I offered above: age-enduring.

Allow me to show you the fallacy of assuming that aion and aionios always means that something will eventually come to an end. Consider the following verse: Matthew 25:46. Aionios is used for both instances of "eternal." Tell me, therefore, is the life given to us by the sacrifice of Jesus eternal as we understand eternal, or will it eventually come to an end? If the former, then it can be argued that you are appealing to consequences. If the latter, then why the need for the cross, or any form mercy, or any form of salvation?—what difference is there between this life and the second life if they both will come to an end, then? Wouldn't you find it odd that if that life is eternal, that punishment is not, all within the same verse?

 

Paul says that all it takes to be saved is to confess and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord. He also says that everyone will do that. Obviously, then, everyone will be saved! I am not saying that there won't be judgement in the Lake of Fire for those who have died in their sins, but I am saying that that judgement is not eternal for anyone except Satan and his fallen angels! Those of us who accept Jesus in this life will bypass that punishment for our sins. Those who don't will go through that punishment. But after that there will be no doubt in their minds that Jesus is Lord, and that he died so that they may eventually be reconciled to God. They will, at that moment, confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God

We all know that having a desire or will does not mean that it'll necessarily be fulfilled. Take the following example: God wishes that all men be saved. Will that happen? Why then does Paul state that certain people will never enter the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, note the words "do not be deceived"). And why is satan and the fallen angels exempt from receiving temporary punishment? The verse you quote about every knee bowing to Jesus merely concerns a desire; it is not something that will happen, or, rather, it is something that only everyone who accepts Jesus as Lord will do. For what reason would you have to bow your knee to Jesus if it weren't for God exalting him?

 

If he is patient, then why must that patience end at death? I mean, what is the point in a kolasis (Greek for corrective punishment) after death if it is not to rehabilitate the soul and lead to its reconciliation with God?

God's method for giving salvation is not through punishment but through mercy and grace (as emphasized in Romans 11:32). It would be odd to show mercy or grace for corrective punishment, and it would be odd to show mercy or grace after issuing everlasting punishment. But it should be noted that kolasis is not considered as corrective punishment by all lexicons, just like not all lexicons consider the term aion to always mean eternal. Therefore it, again, seems to be the case that context is what picks the proper meaning. Consider the following verse: Matthew 13:42. What does gnashing of teeth and weeping mean? But, more importantly, why weeping and gnashing of teeth and not, say, being reconciled to God? I see gnashing of teeth to have an implication that they'll be cursing God while down there (even more so if they considered themselves a good person in this life), merely securing their place of punishment. Even Revelation shows that harsh punishment will not cause them to repent.

 

It does not end at the end of one's death; rather, it ends at Judgment Day. God will give them what they deserve based on their deeds—you know this, for He will repay everyone according their deeds. Why make the time after their death when He can do similar when they are still alive? The patience you reference concerns the end of times, that God is holding back from issuing Judgment Day, so that people may be saved before Judgment Day. Indeed, why wait for them to repent before Judgment Day when they can just very well repent after Judgment Day? This implies that Judgment Day is a mark where atonement for sins is no longer possible.