Pondering On The Current Wall Street Crisis Is there an ominous and familiar hand behind it?

[travstatesmen 0]

AIG, Lehman Brothers, Merril Lynch, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. Yes, even down here in New Zealand, the ripples of the crisis unfolding on Wall Street and in the financial institutions of the United States are being felt. Like an earthquake, or a series of explosions, we down here, thousands of miles away, are affected by what is happening there. The New Zealand sharemarket NZX suffered a 3.395 percent drop today, and this was attributed mostly to effects of events in the USA. To quote the New Zealand Herald today...

 

It was the NZ market's worst percentage fall since November 5, 2002 and brought back memories of the 5.1 per cent fall on September 12, 2001 when investor confidence crumbled in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre on September 11.

...interesting that they should make that analogy, as it is something that I have been pondering on for a while now. With all these financial problems befalling the United States of late, I wonder if there is a sinister plot behind it all? The World Trade Centre, a bastion of finance and trade, was the target of the last terrorist attack to occur on US soil. Could this, these latest financial problems, be a result of a new bid by Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda to inflict a grievous wound on the financial heart of America, to attack the very fabric of capitalism?

Notice from jlhaslip:

merged consecutive postings

I'm just asking the question. Does anybody think this is a possibility? Could this be a form of cyber-terrorism on a grand scale?

 

I have been reading up on this issue a little further, and I see that there is a piece of legislation waiting in the wings to be pulled out on an unsuspecting American public for just such a situation as I have postulated about above. This new Bill is being colloquially termed the "i-Patriot Act" which will do for the Internet what the Patriot Act did for other aspects of the American way of life.

 

Lawrence Lessig, a respected Law Professor from Stanford University told an audience at this years Fortune?s Brainstorm Tech conference in Half Moon Bay, California, that "There?s going to be an i-9/11 event" which will act as a catalyst for a radical reworking of the law pertaining to the internet.

Could this, the current financial crisis involving these huge American investment and finance companies be part of this so called "i-9/11 event"? Is this going to become the cyberterrorism attack that will see Americans lose their civil liberties online?

 

Lessig is the founder of Stanford Law School's Center for Internet and Society. He is founding board member of Creative Commons and is a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and of the Software Freedom Law Center. He is best known as a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright, trademark and radio frequency spectrum, particularly in technology applications. These are clearly not the ravings of some paranoid cyber geek.

I don't know enough about investment banking or international trade relations to make comment on this. I am just asking the question. Is it possible that the current financial crisis is a cyberterrorism attack, and if so is it likely to be the event, predicted by this Lawrence Lessig, to activate the passing of the i-Patriot Act? Remember, I'm not even an American, I'm just an outside observer. Have a look at the article that I found on the InfoWars website and do a Google search for i-Patriot Act if you are interested in reading further.

[Posterchild 0]

This topic raises related issues.. I refer to the Herald article where the national security army guy points a finger at the media and lumps them together with international spies and terrorist groups in regards to threatening national security.Generally speaking, the media is not accountable for its actions.. and by accountable, I mean they can get away with a lot.On thing they may be able to pull off is silencing the voice of the internet.. the bloggers, the message boards, the alternative media.. if the media companies band together and really make a concerted effort, could they do something like that Information Card idea? Could we all have to register our personal details and submit to activity monitoring, just to access the internet at all?That, I think I find more disturbing than a global religious war.

[adriantc 0]

I cannot agree with you... It may be possible that this crisis has been jump started by someone (for financial reasons or maybe for a new world order) but I'm sure it's not Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda. If it was triggered by someone it's from within the United States of America. I can't understand why such a thing like this can be blamed on a terrorist group hiding in the mountains (which capabilities have been greatly exaggerated)... But maybe they have infiltrated Wall Street, maybe they control the banks, maybe Bin Laden is taking over the world. Come one guys - this is the American propaganda machine .... and you're not even American. And even if triggered by someone the crisis is not their doing. They only took advantage of the opportunity!

 

Or maybe this crisis isn't faked or triggered by someone with a hidden agenda. Maybe this is the natural way. Why can't you just consider the fact that maybe the capitalistic world has reached a dead end. I hope this is the case! Why can only communism fail? Consider this... For a few decades America has been driven by consume... a wild one. Don't have money - get a loan! Why not spend money that you don't have? For decades the true value of man in America is it's bank account or credit card. In the capitalistic view the only thing that does matter is MONEY. No more true values, the only thing that matters is $. Such a society is doomed... and it will happen sooner or later. It seems it is sooner. Even worse America doesn't produce anything anymore... everything from China is much cheaper! Do you think that the fact that they are getting so fat doesn't say something about the way the consume everything and produce nothing. America is were it is because it sold stuff. The 2 World Wars were gold for the USA... It couldn't have been better! While the rest of the world was bombed to the ground they were producing and selling stuff to everybody. Cities where raised to the ground, industry fell in Europe, but the USA was there ready and able to sell anything for the right amount of money. It is exactly what China does today - but not because the Americans are bombed, but because the Americans are too lazy to work anymore. Too much prosperity for too long. They have grown lazy. And this is the wakeup call - or the beginning of it. I said numerous times on this forum that I believe that America will fall in our life time. Maybe it has begun. The giant is on it's knees...

 

Morbid as it may sound I was happy because of this crisis. It will remind everybody that money is not everything. Just like a house cannot strand without a firm foundation a society cannot stand without it's values. And the core of this society is rotten... Every time I see Las Vegas on TV I am reminded of that fact. It is the symbol of the capitalistic world. What would have Plato said if he saw Las Vegas? Where are the values of his Republic? A city so full of luxury and depravation. Where is the human spirit? Surely not in it's hotels or on the gambling tables. Surely not in the hugely expensive cars and fancy dressings. The capitalistic way at it's finest! Can you honestly say you like the fruit of the capitalistic tree? (The love of) Money is, whether you like it or not, the root of all evil! Could you blame me for hoping to see it fall ?

I believe (or I hope) that something of a global (economic) quake happens, something to show the world that the capitalistic way is not the right one. Maybe in the dark days that follow someone will pick up the rests and figure out something better, a bright new system that focuses on the human side rather then on a materialistic one. History shows us that prosperous times end in (big) disasters and from the ashes something greater arises. The next level can only be archived thought an equal downfall. We just have to learn the hard way... Out of the chaos a new, better order shall no doubt raise.

Edited September 25, 2008 by adriantc (see edit history)

[Mich 0]

As an investor it really scares me the the government is sticking its nose into Wall Street in such a manner. The market makes periodic adjustments/corrections. If the government goes tampering with the situation, it just might change the complexion of the stock market. Yes it is scarey for those invested, but history has proven that if you don't panic, the market takes care of itself. What I would like to know, is why the government feels the need to "so-called bail out" now? Can't they leave well enough alone?

[Saint_Michael 3]

Well I blame both the government and Wall Street with all the financial problems last few weeks, look at all the big losses that happen during that time and when the $700 billion package was approved. It is obvious the the Wall Street system is flawed especially with all the bad mortgages and people not paying them either, and lets not forget not everyone can afford four or five houses either and so who knows what kind of crimes are being committed when people are told to look the other way. Either way this is just the beginning because if Wall Street takes a loss of 1000 points or more then the whole world is in trouble and the Great Depression would be nothing compared to today's world.

[innosia 1]

Al qaeda or not no one knows. But I think we really need to change things, we need to reorganize the world order, and we need to change the world movement from a negative path to a positive one. I really think so, while we are living in a modernized city which has everything, can we really survive if a disaster is coming? We are more and more depends on modern things, we can't really live on our own and just by ourselves, if a disaster is coming on this earth then everything crumbles. No phone, no water pump, no electric, we are then living like several thousand years ago, then we stress, we will become insane, everything that entertains us from these times, are no longer exist, we are not able to browse the net, our friends are dying one by one because of diseases and disaster, then what will happen? Why can't we live by the nature courses, and not depending anything outside of ourselves?

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

It really makes me laugh when people start blaming George Bush on the nation's economic problems. This crisis was started by the mortgage companies who told people that they could afford that they really couldn't!! The oil companies contributed when they felt like raising oil prices a lot, which was in fact, illegal.

[Diffusr 0]

AIG, Lehman Brothers, Merril Lynch, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. Yes, even down here in New Zealand, the ripples of the crisis unfolding on Wall Street and in the financial institutions of the United States are being felt. Like an earthquake, or a series of explosions, we down here, thousands of miles away, are affected by what is happening there. The New Zealand sharemarket NZX suffered a 3.395 percent drop today, and this was attributed mostly to effects of events in the USA. To quote the New Zealand Herald today...

 

...interesting that they should make that analogy, as it is something that I have been pondering on for a while now. With all these financial problems befalling the United States of late, I wonder if there is a sinister plot behind it all? The World Trade Centre, a bastion of finance and trade, was the target of the last terrorist attack to occur on US soil. Could this, these latest financial problems, be a result of a new bid by Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda to inflict a grievous wound on the financial heart of America, to attack the very fabric of capitalism?

Notice from jlhaslip:

merged consecutive postings

I'm just asking the question. Does anybody think this is a possibility? Could this be a form of cyber-terrorism on a grand scale?

 

I have been reading up on this issue a little further, and I see that there is a piece of legislation waiting in the wings to be pulled out on an unsuspecting American public for just such a situation as I have postulated about above. This new Bill is being colloquially termed the "i-Patriot Act" which will do for the Internet what the Patriot Act did for other aspects of the American way of life.

 

Could this, the current financial crisis involving these huge American investment and finance companies be part of this so called "i-9/11 event"? Is this going to become the cyberterrorism attack that will see Americans lose their civil liberties online?

I don't know enough about investment banking or international trade relations to make comment on this. I am just asking the question. Is it possible that the current financial crisis is a cyberterrorism attack, and if so is it likely to be the event, predicted by this Lawrence Lessig, to activate the passing of the i-Patriot Act? Remember, I'm not even an American, I'm just an outside observer. Have a look at the article that I found on the InfoWars website and do a Google search for i-Patriot Act if you are interested in reading further.

The whole situation has certainly been purpousely manipulated. The power elite are buying up stocks and assets at low prices as we speak to greatly increae wealth and control. The enemy, though, is not on a faraway continent. Look within your borders and ranks.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Well although it would make sense that people are buying up stocks right now, but I really don't think that it is happening. The risk is so big, so I don't think that people would be buying up lots of stocks right now. As for foreclosed homes, it is happening. Homes are being sold for rock bottom prices, so that they will be sold. It's the best time to look into buying a house, right now.

[TastyKlair 0]

When I saw the phrase "familiar hand" in the heading, I thought this was going to be a post about how the lack of government regulation is what brought about this current downturn, much like the laissez-faire anti-regulation periods of the early 1900's helped lead to the Depression and the subsequent almost overly regulating New Deal.

 

This is at least an entertaining twist on it. I think I did hear one news report that at first Al Queda was excited to see America's "greed and excess" finally bit us where it hurt. That's understandable. Then I heard they tried to take credit for it. That's laughable.

 

I haven't heard about the i-PROTECT Act, but then again from the government that brought us the Real ID Act, I'm not shocked.

 

Some interesting websites:

Electronic Privacy Interest Group

EPIC is a public interest research center in Washington, D.C. It was established in 1994 to focus public attention on emerging civil liberties issues and to protect privacy, the First Amendment, and constitutional values.

EPIC publishes an award-winning e-mail and online newsletter on civil liberties in the information age ? the EPIC Alert. We also publish reports and even books about privacy, open government, free speech, and other important topics related to civil liberties.

We have no clients, no customers, and no shareholders.

Mainly focused on US cases and legislation, but does have international reach, such as opposing UK mobile phone registration.

The Privacy Coalition

The Privacy Coalition is a nonpartisan coalition of consumer, civil liberties, educational, family, library, labor, and technology organizations that have agreed to the Privacy Pledge.

Members of the coalition have been meeting since 1995, but formalized the organization in February 2001.

View a list of member organizations.

The Center for Democracy & Technology

The Center for Democracy and Technology works to promote democratic values and constitutional liberties in the digital age.

With expertise in law, technology, and policy, CDT seeks practical solutions to enhance free expression and privacy in global communications technologies.

CDT is dedicated to building consensus among all parties interested in the future of the Internet and other new communications media.

[kb.wong 0]

As an investor it really scares me the the government is sticking its nose into Wall Street in such a manner. The market makes periodic adjustments/corrections. If the government goes tampering with the situation, it just might change the complexion of the stock market. Yes it is scarey for those invested, but history has proven that if you don't panic, the market takes care of itself. What I would like to know, is why the government feels the need to "so-called bail out" now? Can't they leave well enough alone?

My own opinion feel that the government should intervent and bail out those in trouble especially financial company. I agreed the market makes periodic adjustments / corrections but this round it affect international financial institutes, which the magnitute are so much different from previous corrections.

 

The financial institutes are borrow and lend from each others, one major failure, ie Citigroup, would have exponential effect which would bring down the whole world financial system.

 

My feeling is that if Citigroup failed (example), the following might happen:-

 

1) Bank (healthy or unhealthy) will have liquidity problems cause by default loan to Citi.

2) Bank will not giving out interbank loan worry of defaults;

3) Depositors lost their money due to bank collapse;

4) All depositors of other bank will queuing to withdraw their deposits;

5) Redemption from insurance companies;

 

I believe the above will happen if Citi failed and government don't step in to provide liquidity to the market.

 

The above will not only happen in US but it will affect worldwide financial system. So I strongly believe US government intervention is essential to stabilise the world financial system.