Proper English Within Posts

[velma 6]

Wow,

Snide and Catty remarks??? Now wasn't that a tad bit rude?? I dissected my post but I still don't know why it is called Snide and rude...

Well....
The only problem with targeting every one with bad grammar is that you cannot always blame them for the bad language.

We have to keep in mind that not all the countries in the world are taught English as the first language .
These are a few reasons why a member might have "poor" English :-

1. Living in a place where English is not a priority. (In a place where the mother language or national language is spoken more than any other)

2. Due to bad teachers or their own faults, their English might be poor

3. Just plain old bad grammar.

4. Mobile Phones and their limits

Was I catty here?? I was merely telling that sometimes people have poor English because of the above reasons..

I don't think a member should be warned, threatened, treated like a dunce just because he does not have a good grasp over a language.
On the other hand, It is our responsibility to help members with poor English. I think being members in a "community" makes us responsible for each other's personal growth. By personal growth I mean Self esteem, disabilities, flaws and so on.

Again puzzled as to why I was called snide I was merely saying that members who have horrid English should not be treated like a star attraction of some negative sort.

Instead we should be helping them improve because you know that a forum like this can make or break some one, I know that you understand this very well. I am sorry if I was immature there...

I had even suggested to OpaQue that we open a sub forum where members can post useful topics on how to improve their English... But we could not as we needed members who would take out the time to open topics and help members.
We would also need a forum leader who would monitor that particular part of the forum... As we could not find anybody active enough for the job.. We decided to shelve the project.

This is the truth, I was planning to get a forum dedicated to only English lessons to help students and others... I had even planned to get a veggies corner, foreign language section started but it was not possible as I did not see any members that would do the job well...

But If you are interested in it Misanthrope, I will be extremely happy to get the forum started for you smile.gif You can email OpaQue further IF you want to volunteer for this.. It is not a compulsion what so ever

I think this is what made you say that I was catty and snide Sorry for the misunderstanding but I was being serious here..

I have always appreciated Mianthrope's and your knowledge in the English language and wanted her to talk to me regarding this. I had even contacted you regarding this matter but you never responded back.. So I thought you did not have the time for this.

I had wanted Misanthrope and TikiPrincess to take care of the English Forum but Tiki is not active enough

If you still do not believe me, you are free to ask OpaQue whether I am lying or not, I am sure that he will not lie about a silly thing like a forum..

I know that there are people who misspell on purpose or open topics worth laughing or ignoring but It is difficult to warn them or edit their posts all the time..

I never knew that our opinions are whining.. I thought everyone was free to post their opinions. Anyway you can either call my "suggestion" an opinion or a whining.. Doesn't matter because I am not going to reply anymore

**Peace and let us all calm down our raging egos**

[Saint_Michael 3]

As for the high horse I am referring to the superiority complex you seem to keep on developing when it comes to arguments like this, and when it comes to grammar thats when it begins to show the most and you start boasting and make snide remarks regardless if you you know it or not. Thats is all I am referring and nothing more, and as for thanking you that was pretty much difficult to do when you start cracking jokes about it the moment you saw my work, and as for this topic it stop being a suggestion once the attacks began. The only point I made was that instead just going after the big offenders that to make things simple the moderators would be going after anyone, and that would be the thought process for those who don't have a good grasp of the English language.I never said anything about not caring and being hard, my complaint with you is the way you did it. Also don't be throwing words into my mouth about forum status because I don't need to boast that because I have no need to or would it get me anywhere. As for jeopardy thing I do watch it and I do fairly well, heck I get lucky sometimes with some of those questions, but the way my mind works I only need to know enough to get me by. Really though who uses words like lexicographical on a daily basis, luckily for me lexicon is it short form of lexicography, but of course thats why it blows my mind when I tune into that spelling bee competition on ESPN and seeing words that normal 12 year olds wouldn't be using on. Anyways I am getting a bit side track, point being we can go back and forth, make long fruitless posts, and so I am end my thoughts on this. The moderators know what they are doing if they didn't then this forum would be like it was 3 years ago and be in chaos with spammers and people cheating the credit system, and like I mentioned before its up to the everyone just not the staff to help make sure the forums are running smoothly.

[truefusion 3]

And stop attacking people who are simply here to help! When someone tells you to clean up your grammar, they're not saying they think you're a bad person, they're simply trying to help you become a better person through improving your communication skills.

Anyone can tell someone what to do, but that doesn't mean you're helping them. Sure, telling the ones that cut words up intentionally to spell words out entirely is all that is required, but for the ones that are still in the learning process—they need more than just a command. It's like a person with no money asking you for food, and you telling them, "Go eat," without giving them something to eat. You might argue that we are not obligated to feed these people, but if you want something to be done about it, then action is required from those who want a change.

 

You know, this thread was started in the "Suggestions" topic under "Support and Feedback". Now, if you don't want legitimate suggestions in this "suggestions" area, you're (most of those who've replied to this thread) doing a fine job of discouraging others from having the audacity to voice their suggestions on how to make this forum a better place!

The part that everyone has a problem with is how to go about in enforcing the rule. So far, the only suggestion has been more reporting—do you have any? How about Misanthrope? I have not seen any suggestions on how to go about in enforcing the rule from you two. But what further brings this discussion down hill is the implication brought by the suggestion "enforce the rule:" To enforce means to give out actual warnings. What keeps this implication alive, though, is the implication given by the emphasis placed on the word "warning" in post #6 of this topic.

 

[1]I've never seen so many people whine about this and that and make so many excuses and take things so personal just because of a "suggestion" before! [...] [2]You're all reading way too much into the posts Misanthrope and I have made on this topic while we've gone way out of our way to try and communicate to you all that we're not "Grammar Nazis" who want to ban each and every person ESL or not who makes a typo! [3]Further, we're (or at least I'm) not here to teach people how to write and speak English.

[1]Calm down, that would include you also.

[2]Read my second paragraph in this post.

[3]Read my first paragraph in this post.

 

We occasionally get quite annoyed with people who are just as capable as we are but choose to write several grade levels below what they're capable of just because they don't care.

And we thank you for reporting these posts in the past. We just hope you continue doing so where we are ignorant and are unable to attend the post and or user.

 

[hr=noshade] [/hr]

Now, any suggestions in how to enforce the rule better other than more reports?

[Misanthrope 0]

For those who are still confused, my suggestion is not about targeting non-native speakers, anal-retentive grammar enforcement, enforcing all rules all the time, or any other in a long list of ill-reached conclusions put forward by certain members. The tired, boorish excuses on why certain staff won’t enforce a simple policy that already exists have been echoed before, ad nauseum. Yes, yes, I’m fully aware of the huge member to staff disparity, the “reporting” function, staff’s discretionary use of policy and obvious time constraints. And yet, staff has in the past made time to arbitrarily enforce rules that aren’t even publicly viewable, yet apparently exist "somewhere." I can certainly expound on this relevant topic if anyone’s interested, but I doubt those so eager to throw stones in this thread would respond so eagerly to the proposed topic. Speaking of throwing stones, I wonder if the easily offended also took issue with a poster’s use of the large, specialized word, “lexicographical.” I previously had no knowledge of the term, but I applaud rvalkass for introducing me to something new, thus expanding my limited knowledge base. For the staff that decided to turn a legitimate suggestion into an infantile debate, I can only express my disappointment. Here's a news flash: requesting enforcement of an existing rule that is clearly being overlooked does, in fact, constitute a legitimate suggestion! But maybe we should abandon the suggestion forum altogether, as this is not the first time I’ve witnessed cowardly, defensive response to suggestions.

 

I am neither offended nor intimidated when someone else demonstrates his or her intelligence through words, or any other medium for that matter. Why in the heck would I be? Many of you express yourselves better through design or music than languages. That’s great! Wouldn’t it appear ridiculous if I got “offended” or threatened that you design a better web page than I do? I personally consider myself a better musician than writer (which isn’t saying much), but as it happens, the medium of choice on the Internet forum is the written word – this is how people socialize here. I wouldn’t show up to band rehearsal not knowing how to speak the language of music. How absurd! And no one ever insinuated that people flock here with the intention of abusing the language, but to my mind, purposely mutilating the primary vehicle of communication demonstrates a certain degree of socio-pathic behavior. Furthermore, I’d hate to see any member intimidated into dumbing-down his discourse for fear of personal attacks from fragile egos. Regarding bias, I doubt anyone would refute the value of leaving it out of the moderating deliberation process.

 

I agree with Misanthrope's opinion to a certain limit where I have seen members clearly abusing the language to show they are cool or too busy for the world etc. etc. Members like these can be easily distinguished because their attitude reflects in their text.

Then Opaque and I are in agreement. The problem is, some seem hesitant to follow up on these infractions for worn-out reasons they’ve already stated. By enforcing the English usage policy they are also forced to adhere to better grammatical standards themselves, which may also fuel the hesitation. Velma’s proposal of adding a new board to instruct non-native speakers in English skills is an excellent one; unfortunately, it does not address the problem I put on the table – that is, native speakers who intentionally abuse the language. To that end, I humbly propose the following:

 

This suggestion, if adopted, would spread responsibility for maintaining the board’s lingual integrity among more members. If this thread is any indicator, some moderators appear overwhelmed by their current tasks, and this proposal would help spread the workload. We currently have non-moderator “spam patrol” that present a visible deterrent to spammers. I suggest a “Grammar Patrol” who would function much in the same way as spam patrol, but would employ members with above average English skills. Call it “English Patrol,” or whatever you like, the effect would be the same. Admin could start a thread soliciting volunteers, and before long you’d have a large pool of worthy candidates.

 

Velma, I don’t recall you ever approaching me on the subject of manning a board, and I’m still not sure how waiting until after the project is shelved demonstrates a legitimate solicitation. Regardless, please email or PM me the details of your vision at your earliest convenience.

 

I’d like to leave you all with this thought before I abandon the thread: Earlier, Watermonkey quoted the Second Amendment of the Constitution, which was written in 1787. If a select few had not taken it upon themselves to uphold language standards for the masses, none of us would have the ability to read this great document some 200 years later.

[cadastro 0]

Anyone can tell someone what to do, but that doesn't mean you're helping them. Sure, telling the ones that cut words up intentionally to spell words out entirely is all that is required, but for the ones that are still in the learning process?they need more than just a command. It's like a person with no money asking you for food, and you telling them, "Go eat," without giving them something to eat. You might argue that we are not obligated to feed these people, but if you want something to be done about it, then action is required from those who want a change.[/size]

Two thumbs up for this statement of truefusion. Well expounded. At the very outset, I really don't care reading and interacting with posts that are grammatically wrong. Neither react to misspelled words that I come across. Again, as I said earlier, I am more of the substance than learning the new vocabulary word presented. Nevertheless, I feel benefitted from someone of, perhaps, higher intellect posting next level expressions that are new to my comprehension.

 

To the people of much concern of English language decency, if you really want to help people (me included) with twisted english-tounge, my suggestion:

 

- What if you adopt "footnotes" in your posts specifically intended for your unusual vocabulary words? Thus, helping the poor non-english reader understand immediately what you want to convey. And learn the way the word is being used in a sentence.

 

Well, that is only a suggestion coming from an Ilokano tribe.

 

If you do that, I think you deserve a thousand credit points for every post

Edited January 20, 2008 by cadastro (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

Here's a news flash: requesting enforcement of an existing rule that is clearly being overlooked does, in fact, constitute a legitimate suggestion!

Those who make a suggestion—it is their job to help others implement a working and effective solution into making a suggestion a reality, or else why even make a suggestion? Your suggestion is really just a piece of the whole picture; a strategy with no tactics. Your suggestion implies that the staff here in Xisto are not fully accomplishing their duties as staff. Many users do not normally come here planning to learn the rules or even care to first look at the rules upon signing up, these users are mostly here for the hosting—but you see, when they apply for their hosting, that's when the rules become more apparent. But not all users apply for hosting—this is one of the drawbacks.

 

The Introduction Forum: this is one way members, including staff, help enforce the rules. But not all members introduce themselves. Shoutbox: yet another way in helping implement the rules—and not just the members helping others, there are shortcuts found in the red area above the shouts. Hosting applications: yet another way to enforce the rules, because in order for their application to be accepted, their posts must show that they have followed the rules. And i'll tell you one thing, users with small posts are usually the ones that write the way you are not fond of—and in this case, they're basically spamming the forums. Reports: yet another way to help enforce the rules.

 

If any of these methods you find unsatisfactory, then so be it. But until you finish up your suggestion (include the tactics, as i have stated above), we will continue using these methods in the best way we know how and can. There are drawbacks to each method i've stated, but each can back the other up. You may continue calling us cowards and whatever else you please, but slander gets people no where.

 

Now, i shall ask again (but slightly different): Do you have any methods, other than the ones i've mentioned, to better enforce the rules? You could continue avoiding this question, but that's not going to satisfy your suggestion.

[Liam_CF 0]

I've got to agree with you there, a lot of the posts on this forum are used with 'txt speak' and it is very difficult to read sometimes.Good that this has been made.

[Misanthrope 0]

Your suggestion implies that the staff here in Xisto are not fully accomplishing their duties as staff.

By now, I would think you would know better than to attempt putting words in my mouth. From my vantage, it’s simply unprofessional behavior for a mod to blatantly engage in and promote as standard response in the suggestion forum. As I recall, this sentiment has been previously echoed by other staff trying to put an end to senseless bantering, one of whom suggested such dialogue actually belongs in the debate forum. As time goes on, I tend to agree with him. Let it be known that I never once said, shouted, or even whispered within the contents of this thread that all staff are not accomplishing their duties, but I can only assume so much responsibility for how you choose to interpret my suggestion. Now, if someone were to come out and say that Trap 17 staff are not inhumanly perfect, they would only be voicing a truism that afflicts all people, and certainly all corporate entities. I see nothing wrong with admitting our human frailities, and the mature individual does not recoil in horror when these short-comings are pointed out. Regardless, you appear to be taking my suggestion quite personally, which I believe limits your ability to fully process a valid suggestion that your own superior, Opaque, had no problem understanding – and happened to be in agreement with. There is absolutely no reason to take personal offense when another member merely points out an area that desperately needs improvement and uses a proper vehicle to do so. Reacting from a place of insecurity only intimates other members from also making suggestions that could make Trap 17 a better place than it already is, which I assume is the reason the suggestion forum was put here in the first place. Further, I see no place on the board that places restrictions on how, specifcially, suggestions are to be made. What I have seen are words to the effect all comments are welcome. I make a point of suggesting areas of improvement to other companies as well, who gladly welcome customer feedback. Why? Because they appreciate how valuable ANY form of valid feedback from the end-user is in helping them provide a better product in a highly competitive environment. The final responsibilty of implementing the suggestion, of course, lies with the entity who actually solicits the feedback. They don't retort with statements that discourage further feedback, or criticize the fashion in which the suggestion was presented.

 

By the way, the most recent post I reported for language butchering was not a one liner, but a fair size post from an established user who was trying to appear "cool" at the expense of readability.

 

Your suggestion is really just a piece of the whole picture; a strategy with no tactics.

Had you bothered to read all my posts, you would not be making this erroneous statement. As I recall, this is not the first time I’ve had this sort of interaction with you (for which you later apologized). Kindly refer to my last post. If you still feel the need to attack minor points and tear apart my suggestion, feel free to take it up with me in the debate forum or send me some hate mail. Or, you could spend your valuable time actually following my suggestion and get out there in the trenches and fight lingual abuse. And yes, TF, I will continue to use words like “cowardly” whenever I witness a staff member attempting to bully another member into submission for no good reason. You chose to ignore SM's blatant flame throwing and refusal to stay on topic (spam). As a mod, I feel you should have excorsised some objectivity and intervened at that point, but instead you added fuel to fire by engaging in petty t*t for tat tacticts. And my crime? Having the audacity to make a suggestion in the suggestion forum, of all places! How dare I! Edited January 20, 2008 by Misanthrope (see edit history)

[dcshaw.en 0]

It's hard to do really go forward in this direction, really...I know, myself, I generally type with proper grammar pretty much naturally. It takes more effort for me to make the effort to leave out capitols, apostrophes, commas, periods, etc. than it does for me to just type them in.The problem with people who just genuinely don't have enough skills or knowledge for the English language to construct a proper post, is that, I personally at least, feel like a jerk if I sit there and correct every grammatical mistake they make, even if I'm doing it to try to help them in the future and not just trying to be a *BLEEP*.I also realize that warning them for lacking linguistic skills in English is unfair, because it can hardly be considered their fault if English is not their first language, they were never properly taught English, or for some reason are incapable of grasping grammar well.However, I do believe that it's painfully obvious when a person isn't even trying.An entire post written with 'u', 'r', 'i', 'b', '2', and others is an example of this.And even if, let's say hypothetically, that a person is learning English as a second language and their main source of information is from reading it on the internet, and text-speak is what they are accustomed to seeing, I do think there is a limit on what is acceptable. As much as I hate to blame a person for something that isn't their fault, or they aren't doing intentionally (Because I do believe it's frivolous to hold someone responsible for something they weren't aware they were doing wrong or had no way to prevent), I think that there's a certain line that people shouldn't let themselves cross.If you're learning English, you're best off learning to use it properly, for a variety of reasons.I'm no expert at people who have other native languages, but I'm sure it's easy for them to tell when they are typing something that is heavy text-speak.No reasonable person (I apologize for generalization) would logically think that 'u', 'r', 'i', 'b' and '2' could all be the proper words for their respective counterparts; especially '2'.I know a lot of times, my grammar isn't perfect. But at the same time, I don't really expect it to be.I've adapted to my own style of typing grammar, that relies heavily on aesthetics and punctuation.The spacing and punctuation of my posts are heavily reflective on how I would speak the words naturally, it's mostly line breaks, commas, and semi-colons.There are times I also tend to use an unhealthy amount of ellipsis's.PS-Edit (I'm still trying to get used to the censorships on this board, it seems.)

Edited January 20, 2008 by dcshaw.en (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

By now, I would think you would know better than to attempt putting words in my mouth. [...] Let it be known that I never once said, shouted, or even whispered within the contents of this thread that all staff are not accomplishing their duties, but I can only assume so much responsibility for how you choose to interpret my suggestion.

I don't believe you're taking every word i mentioned into consideration. I mentioned that your suggestion implies that. Whether or not it was your intent is another story. Yes, you did not mention it explicitly, but you also did not do away with any false implications (false in the sense that it was not your intention) in your previous posts.

 

Regardless, you appear to be taking my suggestion quite personally, which I believe limits your ability to fully process a valid suggestion that your own superior, Opaque, had no problem understanding – and happened to be in agreement with. [1]There is absolutely no reason to take personal offense when another member merely points out an area that desperately needs improvement and uses a proper vehicle to do so. Reacting from a place of insecurity only intimates other members from also making suggestions that could make Trap 17 a better place than it already is, which I assume is the reason the suggestion forum was put here in the first place.

Believe me, i am not taking your suggestion personally—it has nothing to do with me in the sense of bad grammar and spelling. And i did not react from a place of insecurity. I am merely trying to make your suggestion be what it is supposed to be. You say enforce the rules, we do—it is not only our job as moderators but a command from admin also. You say enforce one rule more than the other—we will and do, when we find the user violating just that one rule, otherwise, why emphasize one rule more than the other as to imply that the other rules are to be followed to a lesser degree? You say that the rules are being overlooked, as i mentioned before, people don't normally come here to look at the rules and we can't monitor every single user. It is common for people to overlook rules. It may be common sense to first look at the rules before joining a hosting forum, but many believe that a lot of forums just basically follow the same rules—this is just one of the many reasons why rules are overlooked. As it is, it is not what is currently established that gives the impression that things are being overlooked, it is the effort by others that gives that impression.

 

[1]My point exactly. But by taking the time to slander, you are in fact showing that you are reacting from a place of insecurity. And i am just suggesting that you take the time to help us form better ways than what is already established. Your slander, however, will in no way discourage me into arguing my point—as you been so far seeing. It may work on others, but i can put forth my suggestion all day long.

 

Further, I see no place on the board that places restrictions on how, specifcially, suggestions are to be made. What I have seen are words to the effect all comments are welcome. I make a point of suggesting areas of improvement to other companies as well, who gladly welcome customer feedback. Why? Because they appreciate how valuable ANY form of valid feedback from the end-user is in helping them provide a better product in a highly competitive environment. [1]The final responsibilty of implementing the suggestion, of course, lies with the entity who actually solicits the feedback. [2]They don't retort with statements that discourage further feedback, or criticize the fashion in which the suggestion was presented.

And do you tell them how to improve? You're still avoiding my over-all question. You gave us your reasons why you want one rule emphasized more than the other, but you have still yet to explain how to go about it other than how we are already doing. To continue in this fashion is to continue to allow us to do things the way we always have. If then, why even start this topic? If this is the kind of question you claim to be discouraging, then tell me how it is not justified for its own sake. Though there may be no regulations as to how to go about in making a suggestion, you can't just make a suggestion that basically tells us to continue doing what is already established for us to do. If merely asking for other forms of tactics is discouraging, then i am not to blame for giving discouragement. It is your own choice on whether or not to take any form of emotion towards a matter. And my statements are said in an attempt to gain further feedback. Can it not be seen that way at all? If it can be seen that way even by an inch, then it is improper to say that they discourage further feedback.

 

[1]Not entirely in this case.

[2]Like you mention previously (emphasis by me), "valid feedback." Your suggestion is invalid in the sense that it is incomplete.

 

By the way, the most recent post I reported for language butchering was not a one liner, but a fair size post from an established user who was trying to appear "cool" at the expense of readability.

Again, you are not taking all of my words into consideration. I shall place emphasis, again, on what i have previously mentioned: users with small posts are usually the ones that write the way you are not fond of. And although some people take the time to butcher words to just fit in with the crowd, i would not go around believing that such is always the case, as people may do it out of laziness or whatever other reason they give themselves.

 

Had you bothered to read all my posts, you would not be making this erroneous statement. As I recall, this is not the first time I’ve had this sort of interaction with you (for which you later apologized). Kindly refer to my last post.

Had you bothered to take the majority of my post into consideration, we would already be discussing new ways on how to better enforce the rules other than the ways that are already established. I may have been wrong in the other topic that is irrelevant to this one, but i see not how i am wrong here. If you will be so kind as to refer to my last post, we can start figuring out ways to better enforce the rules than what is already established. Merely saying kindly enforce the rules, especially one above the other gets us no where. Why? Because, as i have mentioned and will continue to mention—we are, and with the ways currently established.

 

[1]If you still feel the need to attack minor points and tear apart my suggestion, feel free to take it up with me in the debate forum or send me some hate mail. [2]Or, you could spend your valuable time actually following my suggestion and get out there in the trenches and fight lingual abuse. [3]And yes, TF, I will continue to use words like “cowardly” whenever I witness a staff member attempting to bully another member into submission for no good reason. [4]You chose to ignore SM's blatant flame throwing and refusal to stay on topic (spam). [5]As a mod, I feel you should have excorsised some objectivity and intervened at that point, but instead you added fuel to fire by engaging in petty t*t for tat tacticts. And my crime? Having the audacity to make a suggestion in the suggestion forum, of all places! How dare I!

[1]Tell me how i am not in any way justified in my statements? And i am trying to make your suggestion what it's supposed to be; it is not a tear down, but an attempt to improve, even if you see it as a tear down.

[2]Sure, when we come up with ways other than what is already implemented, for obviously you do not believe that these current ways work, or else why start this topic? If you do not believe that the rules aren't effective, now's your chance to say so (even though you had other chances).

[3]How do my statements bear no good reason for being mentioned? Now's your chance to justify yourself in your slander—if it is at all possible to justify slander.

[4]First of all, a lot of us in this topic can be blamed for spamming. Secondly, to respond in a topic to spam is spam. Thirdly, you too are guilty of flaming. And last but not least, addressing someone is not limited to topics and posts.

[5]If you mark me guilty of adding fuel to fire, then it would be unjust of me to take the action that you feel i should have taken. And if i were to do such, there would be more than one person i would be speaking against in such a manner. But what is my crime? Merely suggesting—yes, suggesting—that you help come up with ways other than what is already established, for you are the topic starter. You are therefore obligated to improve the current system—and to do so requires a how. I would not say this is a crime, as it is perfectly fair. But, for some reason, you continue avoiding it.

 

[hr=noshade] [/hr]

I may sound like a monotonous gong, but, so far, it can't be helped.

[Misanthrope 0]

I am going to re-post my proposal for TF?s benefit, as it?s presence in post #19 was apparently invisible:

This suggestion, if adopted, would spread responsibility for maintaining the board?s lingual integrity among more members. If this thread is any indicator, some moderators appear overwhelmed by their current tasks, and this proposal would help spread the workload. We currently have non-moderator ?spam patrol? that present a visible deterrent to spammers. I suggest a ?Grammar Patrol? who would function much in the same way as spam patrol, but would employ members with above average English skills. Call it ?English Patrol,? or whatever you like, the effect would be the same. Admin could start a thread soliciting volunteers, and before long you?d have a large pool of worthy candidates.

So there you have it.

 

True Fusion: Your continued badgering of me is not appreciated, and for whatever reason, you seem intent on turning a forum designed for member suggestions into your personal pissing contest. Since no one sees fit to intervene, I'm asking you to please cease and desist. Or, perhaps you'd like to continue down this ill-fated path until one of us gets a warning.

 

I didn?t make this suggestion just to end up rolling around in the dirt and grime with you, arguing over your definition of slander or your personal opinion on the best way to propose feedback. I have presented my suggestion in clear, logical fashion - PER FORUM GUIDELINES - and have made my point as solidly as I can possible make it. Every item you are currently rehashing has been addressed in my previous posts. I hereby extend the proverbial olive branch, and a proposal that we end this pointless bickering. Let's stick to the topic, shall we?

Edited January 22, 2008 by Misanthrope (see edit history)

[Watermonkey 0]

TrueFusion, you seem to have a hard time with suggestions. I think it's apparent you should hang out in the "debate" forums because that's pretty much what you've turned this simple suggestion into. Nowhere is it written that someone who makes a suggestion needs to have all the answers or impart a solution for that suggestion if the suggestion is also a criticism. It's not the Original Poster's job to solve all the problems of a huge forum -or any one problem for that matter. Several posters, newbies and senior members of the Trap, have made posts on this thread that have gone largely unnoticed because of the debate you've turned this into. These members have mostly agreed with the original post on the thread. So now that it's apparent that this is, indeed, a problem here, and we agree it can't be completely fixed nor easily fixed, the power of the great "suggestion box" has served its purpose. Weather unpaid staff or paid staff can or will do anything about it will remain to be seen. We can pick this up in the "debate forum" if you'd like, but as far as I can tell this topic is closed.

[jlhaslip 4]

Closed per Request.Makes sense to me.

[OpaQue 15]

@Jlhaslip : Sorry for opening the thread. I had a question for WM.

@WaterMonkey: Before I close this Topic, I would like you to clear this confusion about the remarks on Velma's Post. I frankly do not see any need for why you had to comment those statements as snide and catty.

Please tell me why you feel Velma (as a Staff) has better things to do than replying to Suggestions. Considering the fact that, most of the issues of Free Hosting members are bought to my attention by Velma and BuffaloHelp.

Your post contained snide catty language and immature demeanor that would suggest you've got better things to do than respond to "suggestions". I'd expect much more insight and forethought from a moderator.

Note to Everyone: If any Xisto Member has any problem, questions, queries, suggestions or comments about our management & Staff, Please contact Xisto - Support directly at support -a- xisto -d- com.

We also have a Complaint Section at https://support.xisto.com/ where members may post complaints regarding any of our services.

Thank you.

[Watermonkey 0]

Well, Shree, I'll tell ya, since you ask. When a person goes out of the way to defend themselves from an action or behavior they haven't been accused of, nine times out of ten, they've committed that infraction they're so vehemently denying. Case in point: No one brought up or accused Velma of lying, but there she is defending herself from doing so. Weather or not she is lying, I'll tell you I never received any communication from her regarding Misanthrope with regards to this topic. Why should I? If Velma wants to communicate to Misanthrope, I'm sure she would just PM her. So, with the absence of the communication Velma alleges to have made, of course her post seems to me to be catty and even just a bit snide, like she'd rather defend herself or attack others instead of taking a simple, straightforward suggestion in the appropriate forum at its face value. Why all the defense? Why the attitude? People, moderators and other members alike, have been allowed to flame away with wanton abandon in response to this suggestion without any warnings or moderation whatsoever. I find that counter-productive to the spirit of what a "suggestion" topic would stand for. I don't see how anyone is going to feel comfortable making a suggestion here if they see this thread and all the personal attacks without consequence that have taken place. Moderators who should know better have become argumentative and defensive.

 

At the front page to this sub-forum, it says, "Support and feedback. Put in your suggestions, comments, complaints. All are welcome."

This is a direct contradiction to what you said above, (and it's a contradiction to the responses seen here by other members who have, for whatever reason, taken this suggestion as a personal attack) so now I'm confused. Would you clarify what you're saying here please, Shree?

 

Oh, by the way, is Tiki an English major? If so, that's news to me. You know, someone else who's brought up this very topic elsewhere is Folkrockfan who is, indeed, an English major at the university or college she's attending. Seems to be a female thing (I'm running away!!!!). Anyway, you might approach her too...

Edited January 21, 2008 by Watermonkey (see edit history)