She's 11 Years Older Than Me But I dont want it.

[anwiii 17]

"Second Best place to live in the country for 2005".

that's interesting. now i am curious where you live because i used to live 15 minutes from #1 and #2 safest places in the u.s. respectively. could have been #2 and #3.....as far as crime rate(reported crime obviously). in cali- simi valley and i believe it was thousand oaks or moorpark(forget which one) and although it has expanded over there i'm sure, nothing much has changed as far as crime. in fact, i think the police get bored am i close? or far off....please tell.....this wsn't in 2005 though but curious what community. pm me it if don't want to post it and satisfy my curiosity and i will respect your privacy i know this is a bit off topic, but sometimes you have to stray from the topic to stay on topic sometimes....

[Saint_Michael 3]

@SM About body signals. She seems kind of jittery, but not like shaky. Her movements are just more.. quick instead of smooth and fluidy. I have seen her tear up more in the past 3 days than all the other times combined. That means, once, I saw her come into work crying, like, makeup streaming kind of crying, and I heared something about her husband. I'm not sure the family status is in the best of terms.
@anwii I personally think that I am mature and responsible because I spent a whole semester out with the local police every Saturday. I'm not the most popular kid on the block because of this (actually far from it), but it has, I think, really shaped me into the real world. It's nice that I have someone like you working with me on this, especially because of your Patrick Stewart X-Men Mind Reading Abilities. I feel though, that you are right about her being uncomfortable, and as somebody said earlier, that she may have her own insecurities if shes wanting me to feel comfortable around her. I want her to know that I am far from uncomfortable around her, because I think that will make her feel better about this. EDIT: I also think that she sees me as responsible and such, because she is well aware of my police connections. Because although that semester was 3 years ago, I still am in great contact with many of the officers. I have said a bit about this place, it's sorta small, so the department isn't that big, there aren't many people to go getting in the way of things. She does live 3 cities away, but I wouldn't call them cities... rather... communities. And as a hint for you all, I live (and always have lived) in the "Second Best place to live in the country for 2005".

@nol I'm not sure there is another woman in the world as pretty or amazing as her. Then again, how many girls have we all thought that about? Also, I hit up 18 in May.

EDIT2: A note that I probably should have said alot earlier, but even though I didn't, you guys still picked up on it, and now that I think about it you might be right. Maybe it's because I don't look for a relationship her, that I don't see her maybe having those kinds of feelings for me, but since you (very helpful) guys are a 3rd party, you pick up on everything because you're not biased about her or me. The day after I have her the letter, Wednesday, it was... normal, I had some anxiety at first, but she was really comforting about it. We acted like normal, talked like normal, and treated eachother like normal. But I didn't really think about it until now (also, to whomever said something about me thinking about her, and love and hard to get her out of my mind. Yeah, I think about her 24/7, I can't stop, but I'm being really patient about it, as you have seen.), but my job is to ask the customer "paper or plastic" and the customer said something about how they wanted me to choose or something, but she (this girl) said "ohh, don't worry, he's not picky..." and she's never talked about me like that. It's as if she knows me, the way I think, like she's become an expert... on me, its amazing, especially the way she looked at me out of the corner of her eye when she said that. I felt like, wow, she... can read my mind or something, like there's some sort of real connection there that I never saw, but apparently you guys have. What do you think about this?

Hmm... Well now that I have a somewhat better picture on the body signals, which means that she is really really thinking about this at another level then being friends. Although I can only imagine whats going on at her home though and I doubt she would tell you though and if she does don't bring it up here just stick with the advice of being a friend and letting her talk to someone about it. If it is marriage problems then its out of our hands and she should seek some counciling on how to deal with, and that brings up point number to if she is having marriage problems cut off your situation with her immediately because its only making it worse and not helping her think clearly on how to fix it. Although I am assuming this but I think it has already has when you gave her that letter, and so hopefully she does say something to you and either way you need to tell her that she needs to refocus on fixing the problems at home and that you will be there for her if she needs to talk someone. Just don't get to involved with it or the husband might be thinking something else.

Well at least you know who to call if something bad happenings , but yeah I would agree that you now been labeled the neighborhood snoop for the police . As for the second best place in the country I dunno if it beats the playboy mansion then maybe

As for your edit #2 I would say that could mean anything, rebound guy comes to mind, but I say she is aware of your feelings and thus started picking up on things you do and stuff. Of course I wouldn't doubt your thinking about the problems she might have at home and thus developing more of a caring relationship for her as well. That connection is real as we picked that up from you to her, but after this post we now know the connection between her and you. As to how far she is willing to go is up to her but like I mentioned earlier that it would help her more if she thought about how to fix the problems at home first then whats going with you two.

However, right now in my opinion the situation between you two has become very complicated with your last post but hopefully with what I said you will make the step to help her think about what she needs to do (fix problems at home), and not what she wants to do to make them go away(you). As for the time thing I wouldn't put a time limit to get her on the rebound as that would make people start thinking about why she left him, and people who try that it always backfires and badly. So stick with helping her out and of course support her in finding the right help because I know anwii and I are not marriage councilors and might need to see a therapist just so she can get a control of her feelings and thoughts.

Although now I think I am begging to repeat myself in this post so I end it here, and remember friendship and support first.

[CopperZepher 0]

@anwii Think CNN Money... http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ if that halps... which it should haha...

@SM The best thing I can hope for out of this, IMHO, is a super Supportive and Caring Friendship, I mean, I see that as like heaven for my current situation. She may or may not have marriage problems, I happen to know her better half has some pretty bad medical problems...

[Saint_Michael 3]

OOOOOOH!! That would explain a lot about her situation then, and in that case with what she has been dealing with in the last couple of weeks since you became part her. Has put such a mental and physical toll on her she has started to break down, and its somewhat good fo her to keep control of it when she comes to work. So now that I got a better understanding on who she is, you have to play the waiting game and its no longer about you bringing it up to here anymore. So yeah the waiting game is definitely important on your end since she has so much to deal with, of course this is also a good opportunity to see what kind of support you can offer to help her out and stuff. That way you not only gain her confidence and support from you, she has someone to trust and talk to her and even a shoulder to cry on, because people do have breaking points and if she can't let it out in small doses she will do it the wrong people or in the wrong place in one big shot. That I have plenty of experience with in breaking points so getting her to talk and let out those bottled up feelings will be a major thing you need to be aware of.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Saint_Michael (see edit history)

[CopperZepher 0]

okay okay, i see now. well im on my lunch from work. the first thing she brought up to me was why she didnt call "my kids me me are sick and i just..." and i interupted ehr with "(her name), really, dont worry about it. I'm not losing any sleep over this, just call me when you're ready..." and she said "oh yeah, i know, i just wanted you to know why i hadnt called... so yeah, thats where we are now....

[anwiii 17]

if that halps... which it should haha...

wow. things have changed obviously. also.....what a coincidence. my sis lives there. i've never been there yet but i heard it's pretty up there. don't you have to take a ferry to get anywhere? she's also married. you're not trying to get in my sister's pants are you?!? haha j/k can't be the same since i don't believe my sister works and she's older than 30 and their two kids are older than 2 and 9. well that's a coincidence though. maybe you met my family when they went shopping hahaha. i heard it's a really close nit community and most of the people are very friendly.

you ought to travel to seatle more often. i hear there are TONS of women there to choose from. and that was a joke and not a joke at the same time. i think nol said it best. there are other women with a lot of the same qualities you are looking for. obviously this situation isn't going to change anytime soon and you need to take your mind off it so go join a bowling league or go somewhere as simple as the library or church to meet someone or to just test the waters. if you're in college, that's a great place. you need to get your mind off her bud.

and if you want to be a cop, then i hear women will sometimes take their clothes off for ya just to get out of a parking ticket i was going to make a career out of law enforcement at one time to protect and serve and to give back to my country and community but then realized i would be enforcing some laws i don't believe in so i scratched that idea. i decided to help others in other ways. but although the first line of the paragraph was obviously a joke, it has some truth in it. good place to meet women on the job as long as you can still do your job properly. but would have to stay away from the domestic violence women. they need help. not a date.

but get out there and explore. it's a big world out there. if ya don't meet women, make some friends and stay busy. this whole drama crap is going to make you less productive. you can't let it do that.

so you went from wanting to be a cop to bagging grocieries?

[CopperZepher 0]

That is really weird anwii, perhaps I have, I do see pretty much all the customers... You have to take a ferry to get anywhere COOL, theres always the bridge haha. What I am thinking though, call your sister up and ask her to head over to TnC and look for a 'Kim', then you'll know what this girl is like.The "phone call" came... in the form of her after work saying "wanna walk outside with me?".... she basically said, that its really great that i have those feelings for her, but that its a strictly work relationship and that its innapropriate for me to want more, which... i dont really want, mean, i dont need to have shotguns blazing my way. she said also that it would have been bad if her husband found the letter. but other than that, shes happy she knows, and she still wants to be great friends. I was in shock when she told me this, so I didn't have much to say, but I plan on tomorrow (and you guys arent going to stop me, it's my playing field now...) wait for her after work by her car, and explain that I couldnt think of anything to say, but ask her if shes willing to be that "girl i could talk to about anything" because I dont have any friends really that arent guys, and that I'm not about go go telling them about my super emotional things that go on, and that i trust her enough to keep a cool head about my emotional... wrongdoings. im going to thank her for letting me down as easy as she did, and, if i can, sneak a hug. That way, we're still friends, I get what I want from her (just someone I can talk to about things I won't tell guys about... crying, that sort of thing), she gets to maintain a "work only" relationship (not really though) and everyones happy. nothing will change at work because we wont be doing... anything, except talking, so yeah. thats my PLAN not idea, and its what im going to do... now... to wait until 7pm tomorrow... im going to bed. haha.EDIT: @anwii I went from wanting to be a cop to earning money bagging groceries while still looking at a career full of... nothing... also, she lives a few towns over, I'm actually one of the few employees that lives ON island.

Edited December 9, 2007 by CopperZepher (see edit history)

[Saint_Michael 3]

Well I guess you didn't have much time to prepare for the initial shock but I was right that you receive a blow like that, but at least everything is out in the open now, and it seem she came to right decision, and yes it would have been very bad if he found that letter. As for your next yep the ball is in your court and it would seem to be the right step to take as well in establishing a stronger relationship with her, and no everyone isn't happy right now but over time the hurt and the sadness will go away, Yeah I would try sneak in a hug when appropriate but make it short and sweet so nothing else can happen. I would call it a working relationship with benefits meaning that if she need someone to talk to and stuff she knows where to go and not have to bottle it in as much as she has been and stuff like that. So like all things you gain knowledge and maturity in establishing relationships with the opposite sex but you still can enjoy that first crush all people do .

[anwiii 17]

you do that because it's obviously your plan. but just remember. she is right. it is inappropriate and if you want to sneak a hug, it's doubly inappropriate after she talked to you to clarify things. i dunno how well you know this girl, but even a simple hug is a sexual act where the law is concerned(especially in the work place so you are border line on sexual misconduct and can have negative consequences to your actions.sorry bud. you can't be friends with someone you love and who has rejected that love. you will always want more despite what you say about being ok just as friends. you wouldn't make comments like "sneak a hug" because a hug to a friend is a given. that statement shows you still want more and that action states you still want more after she said acting on it is inappropriate.she tried to be nice in letting you down easy, but she just defined your relationship so don't go disrespecting the friendship.and even if it's a friendly hug. if it makes her in the LEAST uncomfortable, then you are plain WRONG. how would it make her uncomfortable? she has to trust you and trust that you mean what you say about a friendship and that you aren't still hanging around her or talking to her or hugging her because you love her. that will confuse her in my opinion and probably make her uncomfortable....even as a friend where you two have opened up the doors of communication. now it's time to build trust without making eachother uncomfortable. you obviously don't have the friendship yet where you can tell her everything or you wouldn't have to ask her; friendships take a lot of time to build....so remember that.how are you even going to know the difference between your actions of love and friendship? how is SHE going to know? man.....you two have a lot of work to do if you two are going to build a strong friendship. it doesn't happen over night so don't sneak a hug or a kiss or a pat on her butt. keep it non physical.i think you know exactly what you're doing and i think you know exactly how you feel about her as more than a friend and that feeling will interfere with your friendship. mark my words. you do your plan, but know that you are walking on thin ice right now....you were trained to be a police officer so at least you should know that ANY physical contact can be illegal in the workplace. and a hug....forget about it...that can be sexual harrassment and even if she doesn't say anything, your boss or someone else can see it and you two can be fired depending on company policy. be carefull because those are some serious issues that doesn't take lightly and i know there are laws for a reason.i hope you reconsider your plan.now my suggestion is don't define your friendship at the workplace. if you two want to be friends, then she will agree to do something with you outside of work. at work, it should be strictly work. now if she doesn't want to do anything with you outside of work, what she is saying is she doesn't want to be close friends at all but she enjoys your company and seeing ya when you two work together. man....i can't stress everything i said enough. i hope you understand the seriousness of the issues here and what she told you and what your plan is and how you two will have to work together if everything blows up in both your faces. you continue to be responsible and don't let your emotions dictate your decision making bud. i am trying to say this as friendly and firm as possible because i care about what you are going through and your feelings and hers as well....and her husbands and her kids etc....you got me involved to care. anyway. just be careful bud. i know i rambled a little trying to stress some points....i will ask my mom to ask my sister if she knows that place i talk to my mom alot more than my sister and my mom talks to her all the time. that would be freaky if she knows the place. i will have to tell her to go down there and scope things out hahaha and keep you two in line....and she can do it too. she was in law enforcemnent a federal agent. she went from that to changing diapers for a living. go figure.

[CopperZepher 0]

@SM omg, you couldnt have said it better!! I'm not trying to get in her pants because I know better, and like anwii said, I've been trained better. She's (if I havn't said before) the most amazing person I have ever met, and I don't know someone more wonderful, and the last thing I want to do, is ruin anything I have with her.@anwii Although you make some damn good points, there are some things you should know. The 'workplace' is "one big happy family"... (not really though) it is a family owned chain of grocery stores, and everybody, as you said about the community, is very closely knit and so on. Although I am well aware a hug crosses a legal boundry, I know her well enough to accept that hug, especially after I tell her what I plan to tell her. I think she will feel alot more comfortable, and it will be the first step in building our friendship to even greater... strongpoints, whereas for example, if somebody wanted to try and mess up our friendship, they would have to try alot harder because eventually we will trust eachother enough to beleive the other no matter what, not what some random *bottom* wants. I wouldn't dream of kissing her or touching her like that, I happen to know she is a fan of hugs. Also, I plan to do this after her hours are over, so although it may be company property, it's in the employee parking lot, where like nobody will be. Our bosses get off at 6, her at 7, so they're long gone. If my plan goes down the drain, I'll be sure to tell you tonight, and I'll be sure to let you say "I told ya so." I really do think that after my little speech about being friends and all that other crap I have planned (and no, i don't have like a written thing, it's just sort of ideas floating in my head, and I hope they come out in the right order, but more importantly... I hope they come out) will ease her into a more comfortable well being. I think it will make her accept my hug...Now to both of you. I wasn't planning on an exactly short and sweet hug, I was thinking like... 2 MAYBE 3 seconds. That may sound short, but it's a lifetime when you think about it. I plan on repeating one word (like say it during my speech, but repeat it once during my hug)... "thankyou". I'm not sure whether or not what's going to happen, I may break down right there, but I can *almost* assure you I will once she's gone. This may be a stupid plan, but I thought giving her that letter was the stupidest thing I've ever done in my entire life, and that didn't turn out SOO bad, I mean look, we're still friends, but last night, the way she nudged me with her elbow (that kind of "cheer up!" nudge) after her talk with me, I know I didn't seem convinced that we would ever be friends again, and I don't think she was either, I was very detached and distressed, and I think I made her feel bad.. after that talk, she proceeded to ask when she I work next, I said "you won't see me until saturday" and she said "what?!" and i said "well i get sunday through tuesday off, i requested wednesday cuz i have an appointment, alex stole my thursday, and you don't work friday..." she seemed pretty unhappy about that, said something like "well have a good week!" and i just said "yeah..." and I just kinda walked back into the store.. very... outside of myself. I couldn't work up a "you too!" So my plan will not only repair whatever damage I may have caused last night alone, but let her know that I'm still willing to be her friend, because what she said, and the way she acted, was that she wanted to be my friend. And I plan, my plan, the plan, to tell her just that. But not those exact words "I still want to be friends" no, that's awkwark. I have my plan... and anwii, your words have been marked well. If anything, prepared me for the worst.

[Saint_Michael 3]

Well I say this though I think she expect that your heart would get broken the moment she would let you down, and so I think was concerned that you would do something crazy like spam email accounts or something. So I would say she was sad that she wouldn't see you all week since the events have unfolded and wanted to keep an eye out on you and stuff like that. Remember this is where experience kicked in on her part and she mostly knew like we did that this was your "first" crush and letting you know to not lose all hope that you wouldn't get "that: girl. Which leads into the damage control, interestingly enough you have not created any damage from that conversation, and hte only damage you would have create would be the yelling, the screaming, the name calling and all that stuff would be the damaging part. As for the hug it was reference to the 2-3 seconds you "plan" on doing but yeah its the experience and the emotion of the hug that lasts forever. Thats where I start disagreeing just a little bit with anwii post about office relationships and stuff like that, because of hte fact its all about timing and whats happen between the two people before the act that you plan to do. Of course thats why I asked how many people are actually aware of it because the more people actually knew whats was going then it would be a problem in which I agree on some points on anwii's post. As with the situation that night was the toughest for both of you just because it felt "perfect" in the sense that it was something you two wanted, but instead the reverse happen; however, if you can overcome this rejection and continue building a relationship with her then you won't lose anything. Yeah don't try to prescript what you want to say something because it could come out all and so if you just have the idea in mind then let the words flow and stuff. If you plan to break down bring a box of tissues and what not Also this that week to reflect on the the experience I know is thinking about it and trying ot become a stronger person because of it.

[CopperZepher 0]

I do feel you are right, SM, about her trying to do damage control. Today, I worked my plan out. She's been sick so I called the store and made sure she was getting off at her usual 7. I told her that I would be coming down to work then, and that I wanted to talk to her. I did. I went there, I wrote down a list (typed up, and DID NOT print, nor did I even save it) of points to make, and make sure I remembered them. She was happy and cheery when she saw me in the parking garage waiting for her (I call it that, its like a... undercover area made up of part of the store), I figured it was very light under there, and it would be less creepy if I didn't come out of the darkness (they came from the blackness... 300 quote). I first asked her if she told anyone, she said no. I then made my major point. I said "I... I want to thank you.. for being so.. cool, about this whole thing. Like.. you really handled it well and it's commendable how you took it. The way you acted, and still are acting, it couldn't have turned out better, and I couldn't have hoped for anything more. You have been really cool about this, the way that only a good friend would act, and... with you... I couldn't ask for a better one." and she thought that was really nice and gave me the "awwww, thanks charlie!!" (yeah, its all over now, so there, thats my name, I told anwii her name in an earlier post). I almost just about lost control of crying control there, lips started to tremble and so on, but I held it in, and kept talking. "Really, you are such a good friend, and I want you to know that if I ever have something that I need to talk about, just.. anything, or the kinds of things I don't want to tell other people, you know, my guy friends or if I'm having girlfriend problems or something, that I want to be able to come to you." she said "That's totally fine!! I would love to help you out in any way I can!" I then brought up an earlier (much earlier, like before the letter) point about her thinking of something that she would allow me to do that she considers really nice, the way she said that she remembers it, was... unconvincing, in the manner of she didnt think of something. I said "you didnt think of anything.. did you..." and she just smiled and said no... (i would like to note that she is now sitting in her car, warming it up and getting herself warm as well.) so said "well... i thought of something..." and she gave me the sorta squint look, like suspicious looking and said "what...?" and i said "c'mere" but she didn't, and simply said "charlie.. i'm really not a hug person, like really, i just dont like hugs, but thanks anyways... really." so, at least I tried, but it's not like i was all "*BLEEP* get up and be my hug pole." so we kinda talked about some other stuff... me getting pulled over for the first time in my life, i shouldve gotten a ticket too, 12 over, but I found out tonight that was because my pulling over officer called one of my really good friends on the force and asked if he should give me a ticket, he said no because I had a really hard day. (speaking of last night the "outside talk" that was supposed to be a phone call.) Then at the end she said "so we good? you okay?" and i said "heh.. yeah.." and she could tell there was something else and she said "anything else you want to say?" and i, again, did a half chuckle and said "i really wanted to give you a hug..." and she just laughed and again, told me that she just doesnt really like hugs, which, is fine, shes a very independant person, likes to be alone on her breaks and such, supports herself and a family, and I respect that.All is well. I feel really good about it, our friendship is... I would say, stronger than ever before, and only getting stronger. All in all, it was a good idea, because in the end, everybody is happy, and we both feel really good about the whole thing. Although I fell short of getting that hug, I'm sure everything will be fine. I really want to thank all of you, especially Saint_Michael, and anwii. You really helped me get through this situation. I know there are still some follow up things that you might want to go through with me, making sure I don't go messing things up by thinking things are better than they are and trying to do something actually stupid. But thanks, again, for helping me through. I have to say, I followed your guys' advice on most of it, maybe not that last part about "my plan" but that was where it really came into me knowing her, knowing how shes going to react, and responding to that with what I know she wants to hear, and what I want to say.@anwii, your words were marked, and I took that into account, but still followed through with my plan, and now everything is better than ever.@SM, you helped me more on the experience and wisdom side of things, you knew what was going to happen, although anwii could tell what had already happened with his super mental abilities, you used your super memory abilities.

[Saint_Michael 3]

Well at least its a good ending or rather a new beginning, but to point out the hug though I think that was the barrier of physical contact between you and most likely she felt uncomfortable about the meaning behind the hug and not the act itself. Again she was being polite about it so not to make the situation go into awkward mode and anwii would agree with me on that. As for a follow up it isn't really necessary since you now know where the line is set up between you two that won't be cross, and as long as you respect that line she can build her trust and confidence with you over time, and it will make her more social as well (in reference to being alone during breaks and stuff).It's nothing knowledge and experience is everything in developing relationships and once you can get past that weird phase, then the good stuff happens.

[anwiii 17]

well that's hapy and sad at the same time...i feel for ya bud....and respect ya. you handled it good. i know i was against the hug thing but respect that you gave it a shot as a friend only. let you in on a seret though. all women are hug people sm is right. she handled it good by respecting the both of you. she just didn't want to lead you on, still a little uncomfortable and it will take time to build a friendship trust which i know is what you will be shooting for now. so be patient and be yourself most important and respect her feelings, what she told you, and what she defined for you to respect. had to be hard bud....but you did it. proud of ya. you both sound like good people to me and i'm glad it all worked out positive. maybe not PERFECT in what you wanted, but positive.i'm glad sm took an interest in this so you didn't just here from me one sided opinion. and glad we could be here for ya. keep us updated from time to time. i feel like i know you both haha

[findhost32 0]

I don't think at 18 you are mature to have a serious relationship. Relations through internet are triky because the other person can say whatever you want to here but that thing never happends when you live with that person(especially when she's 11 years older).