The Ten Commandments Are they still valid today?

[wild20 0]

This IS not a real debate, but may turn into one. The language should remain clean. Also to mods, I know there is a lot of quoted material, but I think it should be balanced enough to not be considered spam. I also think I got all the quotes in place, if I didn't, then please fix it. Thank you and enjoy.

Ever wondered whether or not the Ten Commandments still apply to YOU today? Remember that verse that says that the Law was nailed to the Cross?

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;)

It is a nice verse, but is not the Law you are thinking about. This is the old law that existed for the Israelites. Here is what part of it says:

Leviticus 6:9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.
Leviticus 6:14 And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.

Leviticus 6:25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.

Leviticus 7:1 Likewise this is the law of the trespass offering: it is most holy.

Leviticus 7:7 As the sin offering is, so is the trespass offering: there is one law for them: the priest that maketh atonement therewith shall have it.

Leviticus 7:11 And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which he shall offer unto the LORD.

Leviticus 7:37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;

Leviticus 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

Leviticus 12:7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female.

Leviticus 13:59 This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen, either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins, to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.

Leviticus 14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest:

Leviticus 14:32 This is the law of him in whom is the plague of leprosy, whose hand is not able
to get that which pertaineth to his cleansing.

Leviticus 14:54 This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,

Leviticus 14:57 To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Leviticus 15:32 This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith;

Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

Quite a long law. But this is only a portion of it. It is a strict law that actually played a part in the Israelites salvation. Most don't give it a second thought to this law. It also consisted of the various feasts that were supposed to be celebrated. The reason for this law is actually listed in the Bible. It says:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But you might be asking, "How do you know this isn't the Ten Commandments?". Well now, I have several reasons. Remember when Jesus talked with the Pharisees? With the Harlot, and other instances, the problem concerned Moses' law which said that the woman should die. The Pharisees were testing Jesus, trying to find a cause to convict him. Almost never were the Ten Commandments an item of discussion. The law that was against them was Moses' old law. Under this law, you had to slay a lamb for salvation, and follow a tight guideline that was also associated with this sacrificial law. Another reason is that it says "Ordinances". There was actually a list of other ordinances hanging on the Ark of the Covenant. Giving more reason to see that the law that was abolished was the old Law of Moses.

But yet another point. This applies to two situations of which both will be discussed shortly.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

This is talking about a law that involves sacrifices. Again, the old law. You can see it is not difficult to see that. The old law was abolished for two reasons:
1. Jesus was now in place of the lamb and we needed only grace through Him now.
2. Faith, Grace, and Mercy are now in place of this law.
The old law only acted as a temporary system of which the sins of man could be forgiven and grace received.

Also, see Exodus 13. This shows more of the "old" law that was part of salvation.

But now we come to the point, if the old law was abolished, then what becomes of the Ten Commandments? They are still here as a guide. Why? We need the Ten Commandments. Why? You are asking a lot of questions aren't you? Here is why. Without the Ten Commandments, you do not know if you are sinning. It is a matter of opinion and our sinning is therefore subject to scrutiny to anyone with an opinion can decide what sinning is. If God decided the Ten Commandments were no longer needed, then He was actually saying that it was okay to go out and kill and steal, to worship someone other than Him, and to commit adultery. The question I now ask is, would He do this? No! The Bible says that all people have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We come back around to what is sinning. Again, then the Ten Commandments are needed. We can then ask another question. Which one is needed for salvation? The old law and the Ten Commandments? Just the Ten, or just the old law? You can live without the old law. Here is why:
1. The slain lamb represented Christ. This means that we no longer need to sacrifice to God for our sins, they are paid for through Christ.
2. The other laws? There were different feasts and laws. Examples:
A. Passover. The Jews were suppose to celebrate this because it was a reminder of the time the Angel passed over them that had the blood of the Lamb on the door, once again symbolizing the fact that those with Christ now have death (sin) pass over and they are protected.
B. Feast of Tabernacles. This was also a reminder of the time where God brought the Israelites out of Egypt.
3. This means that this was fulfilled because it was part of the "old" law. The feasts, the rituals. Even in the Bible where it talks about sabbath(s) (note to the "s"), it was actually part of the rituals and feasts. The ceremonial law. How do I know? In Lev 23:39 it talks about sabbaths. They are actual sabbaths. The feast was to start on or end on a Sabbath. Count the days. Let us say the feast started on Sunday. There would have just been a sabbath, and then count off seven days and you end on another sabbath. Eight days total for the sabbaths, and seven for the feast. The day the feast ended on was a "High-Holy" day. Like a double Sabbath.
You can live without these feasts and rituals and still have salvation. They were all fulfilled in Christ.

But the Ten Commandments, you are lost without them. Here is why:
1. You need them to tell whether you are sinning.
2. They are like a mirror.
3. Jesus said, if you love me, then keep my commandments. Commandments are what? Well we have several things here. Jesus said, the two greatest Commandments are Love the Lord with all your heart, and Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself (paraphrased). So:
A. Jesus then said that on these two hang all the law and prophets. We have several things here. The question originally asked was, what is the greatest commandment in the LAW. Make note of this for you will need it for future references. Remember what the law was? It was the law AND ordinances. And the question was, IN the law. This means several things which you already know. The Israelites were required to keep the Ten Commandments as well as Moses' old law.
B. Did you know that Jesus was actually making a summary of the Ten Commandments. The first four commandments are about loving God, and the last six,.. about loving fellow man. Check it out! You will see.
4. So we need the Commandments of God because they about loving Him and fellow man. The two greatest Commandments.

Now what is Moses Law? Well it is the one abolished. It was a curse and was against them. Why? Let us find out.

Leviticus 7:7 As the sin offering is, so is the trespass offering: there is one law for them: the priest that maketh atonement therewith shall have it.

This is why. It was forgiveness of sins. It was needed. There was a sin offering, a sacrifice. Atonement day where the priest went in to the Holiest place of the tabernacle in behalf of the Israelites. But on to others. You need to read through Leviticus seven in order to see all the law. But I will show you the basics of why the law was against us before Christ.

Numbers 31:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;

Again, the old law. The ordinance of the law. Now here is why it is against us.

2Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The law of Moses actually stated that sinners who committed certain sins were to be killed. If you were a Harlot, you were supposed to be killed. Remember that woman brought before Jesus. It was obvious of what the priests wanted to do, and it also mentions, according to the law of moses, which means that this was a part of the old law. It was very serious. But then we have a text that says that the Israelites were required to keep both the Ten Commandments and the Ordinances. Showing that all this was actually needed for salvation through faith, which was supplied by the old law:

2Chronicles 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Pretty simple actually. And finally, let us come to the point. You saw how the Law of Moses is different than the Ten Commandments. And now here is the last authority on what was being fulfilled. Not the Ten Commandments:

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

This finally proves the fact that it is the Law of Moses, not the Ten Commandments, that were fulfilled. Quite simple actually. So coming back around, you have to understand that the Ten Commandments was a part of the old law in the fact that both were to be observed and why it says the Commandments IN the law, or Moses' law. But we need two more texts. One is about why the law was so against us before Christ. It talks about the stoning of people. This was as it was with the Harlot. You should be able to see that from the passage:

John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Now however, a sinner such as this can turn their life around and not be stoned because Moses' law, or the "old" law, is not needed. So we have Christ now. But still need the Ten Commandments to mirror our actions. The last verse with this topic is the one that shows why we no longer need Moses' Law:

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

And there you are. You can see why this is the law that was fulfilled from the previous texts, and this is why it is no longer needed. We are justified by Christ. You see the old was there to justify the people of Israel because they did not have Christ.

Now I put you through all this. And I have found a "short-cut", if you will, that also shows that the Commandments of God will always be standing. These are the last verses in the Bible mentioning the Ten Commandments. Here they are:

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Now what are the Commandments? They are not the old law, we already set them apart. They are either:
1. The Ten Commandments, or,
2. The two greatest Commandments
3. Or both.
Which is it? Number three would be correct. This is not a specific number; it is just "the commandments". Even if it was the two greatest, they still summarize the Ten and if you read, it says if you love Me, then you will keep My Commandments. Well He already mentioned the two, so it is therefore the Ten. Ending this article with the conclusion that the Ten Commandments are still valid, being able to be used as a mirror to check our actions and make sure they are in harmony with God's plan.

ENDING STATEMENT:
Friends, many people say that they are free from the Ten Commandments because they are no longer valid. Still others say that God doesn't care what we do, that we are saved by Grace and Faith alone and that the Ten Commandments are something to be disregarded (under the same statements) because following them is ultimately,...Legalistic. Although it is true that we are saved by grace and faith is also needed, following the Ten Commandments is not legalistic. It says in the scriptures, if you love Me, then you will keep my commandments. Might I also add that it also say that Faith without works is dead. We need to keep this in mind folks. Although the Ten Commandments are something that many people say is not needed, maybe you, after reading this article, could be the one to enlighten them. Thank you for reading.

Notice from snlildude87:

You are only allowed 10 quote blocks or else they will not print. Weird.

Edited January 22, 2006 by snlildude87 (see edit history)

[morosophos 0]

What a mouthful. You quite clearly put a lot of thought into this.

 

However, most of the scripture passages to which you referred mentioned the commandments, rather than the Commandments (difference in capitalisation). Commandments can refer to anything that is decreed.

 

The Commandments, though a lovely and wonderful guide by which Christians may evaluate their lives, are not accepted by people of all faiths. I do not intend to argue that the Ten Commandments are irrelevant to society, for certainly there is meaning in each of the ten that anyone of any faith can apply (excepting the first one, wherein is stated there is one God). However, there are other standards by which one can, and should, measure oneself.

 

What one is actually measuring is one's moral being, which is compared to one's own morality derived from a moral standard, such as the Ten Commandments. Moral standards can be found outside the Bible, for many people acrue their moral standards in peices as they grow from a child and learn right from wrong. This distinction from right and wrong is inveterate in nearly all humans and is called conscience. Therefore, decisions ought to be evaluated by more than just a moral standard such as the Ten Commandments, but also by conscience, which is able to subjectively distinguish right from wrong in a given situation because it is more intimately related to its user.

 

One benefit of many in evaluating actions against a conscience rather than simply a moral standard is something you mentioned: aversion to viewing sacred law as strictly legal. Although Christians are supposed to obey the Ten Commandments and the various sayings of Jesus, such as the two you also mentioned, they are called more than "not to break the law." In Matthew 25, for instance, the Lord judges based on what the sheep and goats have done, rather than not done.

[wild20 0]

Yes, we are to do more then not break the law, but it is important to remember that all, including the fourth it still valid. Thank you for your input. I realize that not all faiths accept the Ten Commandments, but that doesn't make them not valid. On your saying

Commandments can refer to anything that is decreed.

I believe that may be true in other instances, but no where in the Bible does it say there are other Commandments, nor does it give any. By this law of deduction, if and then, if there are no others, then we have logical evidence to support my theory and say, The Ten Commandments are not only valid and true, they are the only thing left standing by which we can mirror our actions, and know whether we are following God's will and not sinning.

[morosophos 0]

Yes, we are to do more then not break the law, but it is important to remember that all, including the fourth it still valid. Thank you for your input. I realize that not all faiths accept the Ten Commandments, but that doesn't make them not valid. On your saying

I believe that may be true in other instances, but no where in the Bible does it say there are other Commandments, nor does it give any. By this law of deduction, if and then, if there are no others, then we have logical evidence to support my theory and say, The Ten Commandments are not only valid and true, they are the only thing left standing by which we can mirror our actions, and know whether we are following God's will and not sinning.

 

The book of Exodus contains 613 commandments. There have been pulled out from those 613 commandments ten special ones that seem to summarise the rest. These are referred to as the Ten Commandmentsand true, nowhere else in the Bible does it mention another addition to the Ten Commandments, that's why there're ten of them.

 

The Ten Commandments are an excellent guideline for one's life. However, not all of them can apply to other faiths, such as the First Commandment, "You shall have no graven images and no false gods." Obviously polytheistic faiths are going to have minor discrepencies in moral values here.

 

On your logic, it is presumptuous. You assume that commandments are the only way to measure one's life or "mirror our actions." Perhaps one of the best mirrors is just reflectionto sit back and think about our actions and ponder how we could make ourselves better as a whole. We can even turn to other people as mirrors. We can observe how they act and decide for ourselves which of their actions and traits are ones that are moral based on our own perspectives and act accordingly.

 

As for sin, one only sins when one commits an act against God (which can mean an act against nature or humanity as well, since both are associated with Him) of one's own knowledge and volition. For instance, if I were a two-year-old with very little knowledge of right or wrong, would "stealing" a cookie be a sin? If I don't know the laws, am I guilty and able to be held accountable and judged by them? No. The point I am making is the best guide to making moral decisions is one's conscience. In the case of the two-year-old, his conscience is not fully developed, so he isn't able to look at the situation as one of morality. He just sees cookie. As to how one's conscience is formed, one could easily argue that analysing situations with regard to a set of moral standards (you seem to be quite fond of the Ten Commandments for your moral standard) is the way to go. There are uncounted ways to strengthen and train one's conscience, and that way is as good as any.

[wild20 0]

No of course a 2 year old would not be held accountable. I believe that God judges us on our knoweledge. It is the ONLY way to be fair. However I do know that we have governing laws prebuilt inside us. Such as murder. We all know it is wrong. But God can't judge us on hwat we don't know. If I don't know something is a sin, then it would be unfair for God to judge me on it.And although sometimes it is needed that we reflect oursleves on how to live our lives. The Bible is the word of God and will always be consistent on how we should. Whereas humans will interpret it to best fit their desires. Instances where people will claim God told them to kill someone. Although it seems like a nice way out, we know that in the Bible it says that we can't kill. So we know it wasn't from God.

[sandeep89 0]

wow theres a lot there...i think that everybody should be told what is right from wrong, there are only a limited number of other ways of founding out, which mainly include 'sinning' and then seeing the consequences.the commandments may not apply to certain parts of society anymore, such as not commiting adultery, well tons of people do, and go on living happy lives.so, i think hey are relevant, but not to everywhere...

[wild20 0]

Of course everyone commits adultery, but the key is not to. God says, if you love me, then keep my commandments. Are you saying that just because everyone does it, it is okay? there are a very few out there that are pure and holy, however you make it out to be nothing, which saddens me.Faith and grace without works is dead, and therefore the Ten Commandments are still as valid as ever, even if no one keeps all of them, which means they are sinning. Are you saying it is okay to steal and murder, just because a lot of people have? This is not a value statement, it boils down to whether or not you are going to keep God's commandments.

[sandeep89 0]

thats not what i meant.what i meant to say was that when people commit adultery, it can make them happy, and if everyone is happy having committed adultery, and nobody is getting hurt, then i see nothing wrong in it. That is my reasoning, an action is good if people who commit the action are happy, and they are not hurting anyone by committing that action.This works for murder and theft, people might be happy having committed these sins, but they are making other people unhappy in doing so, and so the action is bad, not good.

Edited March 23, 2006 by sandeep89 (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

To continue the adultery thing, would you like it if someone else took your wife or husband away from you? So, techniqually, someone will be unhappy cause of adultery. Sure the ones that are now joined cause of adultery are "happy", but there is still someone in the background which isnt (e.g. the "ex").

[wild20 0]

truefusion, you hit the nail on the head.sandeep:Don't you see, when you break god's commandments, you hurt someone. Why do you think they were put there? They are not a set of rules, they are a set of commandments, given to us by God out of love for us. If you break one, you actually hurt someone. Even more so if you are married. It hurts their feelings. sure it may not hurt you, but you are not the only one to think about here either.

[sandeep89 0]

how can you be sure that cheating on someone who is married hurts them? has it ever happened to you? maybe you don't wanna be with them, and finally they go...

[heavensounds 0]

Well, I think that these 10 commandments ARE and ALWAYS WILL BE the basic rules by which everyone smart enough to understand them should live. But we have to be careful, because there can be many interpretations and this is why you should really dig deep into them to realize what they are really tryin to tell you - it is the same with everything else on this planet!Well if we take "Don't lie, don't steal, don't kill" This is all true but what was really meant by that. Let me give you an example: "One day when the world war 2 started there was this family who was hiding 3 jews in the basement in the closet. Then 3 germans came and knocked on the door. Father of this family went to open the door and he was asked if there are any jews inside of the house. His answer was NO! - now if he was stuck to these commandments (don't lie) than he'd have to say that there are 3 jews hhiding in his basement but then they would almost certainly die. But he lied with GOOD INTENTION to preserve the lives of these jews! And here this is acctually the basic thing you should understand...WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING WITH GOOD INTENTION than THAT IS GOOD! Even if you lie, steal or even kill (you kill hitler and preserve lives of millions!) it is unimportant as long as you know deep inside that you are doing it with good intention...AND BELIEVE ME; WE ALL HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DIFERE GOOD FROM EVIL...it is inside of us!So, YES 10 commandments are good and true, but we have to really think about them and see what they are tryin to tell us...Greetz

[truefusion 3]

how can you be sure that cheating on someone who is married hurts them? has it ever happened to you? maybe you don't wanna be with them, and finally they go...

Ever heard of true love? Ever lost a loved one before? You think you know a person. You think them coming into your life is the best thing ever! You ask them to marry you, they accept. Your life couldn't be better! Then, after some time, all of a sudden, the relationship starts falling. You ask yourself, "Is it my fault? I've expressed my love for them the best way i know how. I've done nothing, but good." You become depressed not knowing how could have such a thing be going "down the drain"? You find your partner going out more than usual. Coming home late, or not coming until after morning. You start to suspect, and investigate. Your investigation leads you closer to the truth. And then, there it happens. You find the truth. The thing you thought would never happen. Your partner is cheating on you. Your heart is broken. You feel you could never love again. You've tried your best, the best way you know how. But, it wasnt good enough. You get divorced. Your partner, later marries the person they were cheating on you with. You think about starting over, maybe finding someone else. But, then the questions come in. How could you make someone else feel loved, when you failed to do so in the last relationship, the one you thought would never end. You start punishing yourself. Everything is worse than before.

That's just one out of many stories that could happen.

As for the other post about good intentions, you dont need to kill human life, for anything! No matter how bad the person was. Even if one managed to get to Hitler before he killed himself, and had his body burned. Assuredly, i say to you, Hitler well earned his punishment. As for lying, such a thing is easier forgiven than murder.

[sandeep89 0]

you are only showing one side to cheating, and the example you gave is where it hurts someone, so in that scenario, its wrongbut...imagine that you meet someone for the first time, think you're in love, get married etc. then you find that you made a really big mistake, f ind that they are just the type of person who you didnt wanna be with, find that you cant stand being with them. so you cheat, making yourself happier. maybe they feel the same way, and too cheat. you break up, but it could be just what you both wanted for so long, but finally have a reason for doing so without having to look back.all im trying to say is that there are two sides to every story, its adultery isn't good in all circumstances, i know that, but sometimes its whats best for some people.

Edited March 29, 2006 by sandeep89 (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

This is where people come in, before they get married, and say, "Dont take things too fast". And after they make the mistake, they come in again, and say, "I told you so..."

 

But, mind you, you can be forgiven for sin, once. If you sin again, after being forgiven, i wouldnt know what to tell you.