The Evolution Of The Eye

[bartolo 0]

Arguing with a raving lunatic on another forum about evolution, I've been asked to explain how the the gene that controls development of the eye in insects and humans is the same.

My short, off the top of the head answer would be that humans share genes not only with insects, but also with bananas, rather than evidence against evolution, this is evidence for a common ancester for all life. I'd be grateful though if anyone has any more specific information about this particular gene, how ubiquitous it is etc.

 

Notice from BuffaloHELP:

Moving from Technology to General Talk. Don't forget to check the forum description before posting a new topic.

Edited August 27, 2005 by BuffaloHELP (see edit history)

[nelimitat 0]

I think this isn't for us. I thought you were writing the plot of a movie at the beginning

[Saint_Michael 3]

yeah its a genetics thing can't really go into detail but yeah cells and time helped it pop out

[sandbox 0]

Well, normally I don't like to resurrect threads, but this one really caught my attention. I get into similar arguments with people from time to time, and my experience in biochemistry informs my opinions. There are many many genes controlling eye development. I haven't studied them, so I can't give an estimate, but to give you an idea, there are at least 11 classically defined crystallin genes. They are structural proteins, not involved in development.

 

However, these genes code for proteins that are expressed in the lens. The cells that express crystallins eventually lose their nuclei which helps the lens become transparent. I'm not certain, but I believe that the majority of the protein that remains in these lens cells are crystallins. Humans to insects is a huge distance in predicted evolutionary divergence, and I couldn't find evidence for crystallins in insects with a quick search.

 

However, I did find crystallin genes in mammals, sharks, fish, amphibians, and birds. I even found crystallins in a blind cave fish! Now what is a blind fish doing with an eye?

 

Astyanax mexicanus (blind cave fish) ...................  164  3 hits [bony fishes]        gamma crystallin M [Astyanax mexicanus]

 

If your friend could believe that a blind cave fish and a regular fish evolved from a common ancestor, what about sharing a common ancestor with a shark...or lizard...or chicken, or human? At some point the destinctions that they have to make to support their arguments seem very arbitrary to me, and the biological evidence for evolution is very strong. If you look at genes more critical for life like, say, a ribosome which makes all proteins in a cell, or tRNAs which are the link between DNA/RNA and proteins, the genes are similar throughout the entire kingdom of life. Thus endeth the lesson!

[wild20 0]

I can't provide you with an answer that I believe because I don't believe in evolution. This is going to be a little off topic, but I will get to my point. You just can't take a fire ball called the "Big Bang" and make something so complex. I was researching and learning about evolution once again, and found the worst flaw of all. In the human throat, there is a flap of skin and muscle. It makes it so that when you swallow, the flap closes over the airway and prevents you from suffocating on your food or drink.Now, evolution teaches that things devolope in small increments. Devoloping slowly over time until they are perfect. It teaches that you are the result of selection. Where the best animals develope into better animals until all the envirionment would be filled with perfect animals. In order for this flap to work perfectly, it must not be more then a tiny amount larger or smaller. With evolution, this could not have happened because with humans, this would have devolpoed slowly and would not have been perfect from the start, eliminating the race before it even began.Studies have proved that fish can adapt, this is micro-evolution, not macro-evolution. The fish that were at deeper deapths didn't need eyesight. So what? But another interesting story was even more wierd. The co-founder of evolution decided to do a study. Remember that by evolution, the animal devoloped only what it needed to survive. I can't remember his name but maybe you can help me out. He took a "savage" as he recalls in his studies, and takes it to his home. According to his work, the man will not be able to learn or learn to fit into modern areas because he has never seen anything but his desolate region before. He puts the man in school and gives him the best education. In the course of a few years, the man has become a scholar. By evolutions laws you can't do that. This man was stumped. What am I coming to? Evolution is not something that can be proved, it is a mere statment that scientists waste their time on. It is much easier to believe in a loving God and awesome designer who created you and me. The arguments you could use out there to back up YOUR claim is very large, but none many would have valid reasoning to them.As to your eye question, if I had to back it up. I would say that we share the same genes, and that because evolution is something that devoloped all animals, we would naturally share the genes. But again, it is not plausible. God could have taken and used similiar blueprints.Scientists have looked high and low for the missing link, the one needed early human, but it is not there. It doesn't exist. I would either argue against evolution, or not at all because all it does is make you look like a fool. I know this sin't what you expected, but I can't find any other response to your question. So, my answer, give it up. Evolution doesn't exist and you are wasting you time. Just my opinion. Sorry if it is a little blunt and straight forward.

[Unregistered 015 0]

It is much easier to believe in a loving God and awesome designer who created you and me.

Remmember that harder is better. It it easy to do a lot of things, but the easiest thing to do is not to do anything at all! And looks like you are on that path. Thats ok, it your choice, but there are some people who want to KNOW why and how things work.
When it comes to genetics I cant be of any assistance since it is not my field of expertise. I can only confirm that we humans share 98% of the genes with chimpanzes (I think). Interesting.
For those in the field, can you suggest any books for a noob? Or videos, I like videos

[sandbox 0]

wild20, you presume much. I meant to say at the end of my post that all I'm trying to do is explain some biology. I prefer not to discuss my belief system in this thread. But, fyi, did you know that Francis Collins, the man in charge of the public effort to sequence the human genome, is a Christian? It would appear that there are some examples of people who keep their faith with them in their pursuit of science.

ciroxyz, I really like this site for its clear explanations of classical and molecular genetics. It's got some great audio and video!:

http://www.dnaftb.org/

It helps explain the concepts of a gene, and a protein, and DNA and all that jazz. Good luck!

[serenity 0]

I really really dont know anything about this and im 14.. sad innit

[sandbox 0]

I understand what you mean. There's so much cool stuff to learn, and so little time... But, I'm 29 with lots of experience with this stuff. I didn't learn anything until at least high school, and most of it I learned in college and in my current work, so there's hope for you yet.

[wild20 0]

Just giving my opinion on things. I know many Christians who are evolutionists and Christians. But if you are a Christian, you should have nothing to do with evolution. Remember for a Christian the bible is the ultimate word, because it was inspired directly from God. Harder may also be better ciroxyz, but in this case it is the easier I believe that takes the cake. All I am saying is that there are a lot of people who think that evolution is the key. But No one can explain what I just said because it goes against evolution. Thus, I cannot accept something that goes against both my belief, and the bible, as well as not being in science's terms, accurate. I repect your guys' beliefs, but am looking at a Christian standpoint.

[Ao)K-General 0]

Okay. Im confused. What exactly are you talking about. I am so confused. The evolution of the eye? lol. weird. Just so confusing