krishnadeep1

since the mods have "warned" me to leave this forum, i wanna give u my email id: krishnadeep@live.com just write me ur questions n i will be happy to keep discussin stuff. by the way, i'm here coz my friend told me to check it out. i've got enough monies to buy hosting from good companies and not crappy servers like xisto which're down 75% anywayz! about the reason for existence, let's talk more. i'll write u as much as u want. i'm not afraid of scientists and skeptics coz i'm an engineer for crying out loud. i DO science. k? write me and we'll discuss. i've got a feeling we'll be good friends. thanx. cheers!

@Krishnadeep1

 

 

 

 

You're asking for evidence of emotions ? And what are you trying to suggest when you say complete reason for existence ?

 

 

 

Because people oppose those who prefer skepticism. It's easy to believe in fantasy stories of spirituality than accepting science and it's exploration. And just because of there is limitations in science, doesn't mean spirituality is right.

 

Oh, now spirituality requires patience ? Hmm, and what results have you got so far after that ?

 

 

 

 

Just the opposite, word salad is spirituality. You're using internet and looking for hosting cause of science and not cause of spirituality. Their ignorance on not to read or question science journals. More people follow religion and are spiritual but not reading science journal is "appeal to popularity" fallacy.

 

 

 

and you fail to give proof for spirit. so where is the science in it if it fails to give empirical evidence for spirit. and What gives me power ? certainly not those fantasy energies suggested by spiritualists.

 

 

 

Playing with consciousness won't let spiritual people escape from the fact that there is no way to prove "spirit". and i didn't get your attempt of finding out what is at the end of consciousness.

 

Is it ? creating meaning of existence out of each others fantasies is definitely not what you call consciousness or do you ? in that way, are you implying that lack of scientific findings makes spirituality and consciousness theories of yours right ?

 

 

 

 

 

this is Assumption in spirituality. Humans all care for survival and multiplying. in this process we have formed culture that forced us to maintain peace and avoid pain.

 

Are you ignorant ? there are plenty of such people(psychopaths,criminals) who love pain, bloodshed in life. your ignorance to see such people around don't make your point any way worth to consider.

 

 

 

 

I guess now so far you failed to give proof for spirit on which your spirituality is based. and now you think i'm accusing ? fair enough.

 

Being skeptical is any way related to being rapist or murderer ? i don't think your example here makes sense.

 

 

 

 

Agree, psychology and anthropologists can point out error in way of living but can't dictate terms on which humans should live.

 

Exactly. And all i feel is instead of forcing we should discuss as discussion is more beneficial to remove blind beliefs and to acquire more knowledge. Be it from any side.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. this is going philosophical way now.

 

Even if i got into situation like this, i don';t fill myself with any fantasy stories and bookish ideas of spirituality. But that';s just me.

 

 

 

 

Reason of human existence is different for every human. as some can't interpret the events around them and they fill it with pseudo theories of spirituality. and any attempt of proving those fantasy stories simply makes them escape at the end by questioning science,if not then still where is the proof of spirit to begin with ? Guess, who is escapist now ?

so my dear friends, the mods and others have felt me to be a particularly nasty specimen of a species on this forum and so i've been "warned" that my account would be suspended. i thank you for reading and posting replies to my posts. nice of you. stay safe and have fun. cheers

@mahesh2k: could you give evidence for love in your heart? could you give evidence to pain? could you give evidence to feelings deep within you? could you even give evidence and a complete reason for your existence? if science has a way for mankind to be happy under all circumstances and can give a reason for consciousness, howcome it hasn't put it out yet? science has given only things so far. technology gave even more things. things make you happy. thats' how most people think and live. but unbeknownst to perhaps your own self, scientists are moving away from "all is matter" and "matter creates energy" to "energy creates matter" and "all is energy". whoever said spirituality doesn't have evidence? do people like you have the patience to check it out? have you ever had the seriousness to ponder deeply at what things really are? word salad is science. how many people read scientific journals? hardly few! and your point about why spiritualists need internet, etc. doesn't make sense because spirituality, by it's definition, is the science of the SPIRIT...if you think that consciousness is product of brain activity, if you believe what DeCartes said about " I think ,therefore I am!", then ponder this: what gives you the power to realize that you are thinking in the first place? do you really think that your consciousness if your own? if so, could you give a scientific, empirical evidence of it's creation? could you give a practical, lay man term sense answer to what would be the end of consciousness? would you consciously be able to put an end or destroy consciousness? because according to your theories of evolution, everything is pointless, mindless existence that goes on between two points of time. well then, there's gotta be a beginning and an end! prove the beginnings and endings of consciousness! you very well can't because consciousness is not your own to do so.every human on this planet is driven by two basic desires: to avoid pain and to gain happiness/joy/peace. show me but one single person who WANTS pain with all his life. you cannot! it's simply not built into the fabric of our existence. the science of spirituality begins with these two desires and taking them to the next level where deeper questions are asked and answered. i stand by what i said earlier...science and spirituality are coming together and not away from each other. people like you who use words like skepticism, word salad, spiritual fantasies, escapism,etc. are simply finding within themselves that they have no real ground on which to prove their accusations. what is escapism? why do i need to learn to live the way you do? would you willingly live the life of a rapist, a drugs dealer or a murderer? i hope you would not! there is a way of living that is on a universal scale of good and bad. science cannot show people why to live, it can only show how. that is a very applaudable part of it. if a man is an atheist or a believer, he can go to a doctor and get healed. nobody is going to ask him about his inclinations or biases about science and spirituality- neither the doctor nor the medicine. similarly, there are universal truths that are rooted and your belief in them or your skepticism aren't simply going to change them. truth be told, science cannot mend broken hearts and desperate souls. you will know when life hits you hard and slaps you on the face every single moment of your life, asking you for an explanation of it's existence. since this is not happening, you wouldn't know. i've been where you are and i can answer many more of your questions. it's not a matter of belief,my friend. you can believe that electricity doesn't exist, go catch a live wire and die before you know it. it's not what science gives you as evidence either, because scientists too,are prone to error. you will have to realize that life is a series of awakenings to greater awareness and to the maturity that there are more people around you and the barriers of selfishness are put up simply so that they can be broken. i can understand every single word of what you wrote, because i am an engineer and i've been in similar spots as you are right now and your arguments are pretty good, but are not enought to answer THE question: give me a reason for human existence that makes sense and silences that bad boy who keeps slapping your face and asking you about it. if you think there's no reason and so on, well guess what, you're the escapist dear scientist! cheers and peace.

Since the question is, " which one do U believe? ", I would say I don't believe Darwin's theory. Scientists, except a rare few, somehow simply presume that all people who lived before them were fools and simply dumber and that humans grow to become smarter and smarter as time goes on. Well, it doesn't work like that! As for the other option I have about God, He is everything and everywhere and He made Darwin too! I bet there have been people like him ages before all of us were there to talk about Darwin on this planet!The thing which is needed these days is not Spirituality or Science, it is Spirituality AND Science. If we only begin to bridge the gap that is separating these, then mankind would be at more peace. Have you seen the movie Angels and Demons? It says the exact same thing. It's about time we stopped messing with ourselves and start seeking answers within ourselves. I mean, when you can eat a mango and be happy about it, why go stand on a mountain and ask how many others ate a mango, how much more tastier theirs was and so on? I am not advocating complacency here, but contentment and common sense. Cheers!

I agree. Complacency is not a good way to attaining peace. I am not here to write against Osho or his practices, but to me, commonsense suggests that being spiritual is anything but being complacent. If one were to truly be complacent, why would he seek spirituality in the first place? A soul remembers it's long lost Love, it's Bliss and the underlying unity, it becomes bored of the anguishing monotony of life and hopes to regain the lost glory and happiness, which is what the path of spirituality is about. There are many complacent couch potatoes in the world to whom earning money, paying the bills, watching TV and going to sleep is a way of life. I couldn't find any more complacent people like that and they are not progressing spiritually!Meditation is a technique that demands our attention and our concentration. Would you be able to drink milk while you're running at a fast pace, no matter how sweet the milk is? You wouldn't! It is the same with meditation. We cannot expect to find peace within ourselves if we use something outside ourself as a place of solace. The concept of singing, dancing,etc. is to prepare the mind and body to go inward, because it is accustomed to being outside and play along with the five senses. You cannot suddenly hit brakes on a bike that is going at 100kmph, can you? You would decrease the speed and come to a safe speed where you can hit the brakes without falling down. It is the same with our minds. Unless you are a master, you cannot expect to be extremely busy and creative with the mind, and then go into a state of meditation as soon as you sit down. Hence, our ancients have devised means of singing and dancing to God, so that the meaning of these practices take us deep inside and finally the mind feels like it has to meditate.As for many people doing this, it cannot be a good way of choosing a spiritual path. There were many people who believed that the earth was flat and that didn't make it so! You could have a strong belief that electricity does not exist, but when you touch a live wire, you would get a shock. There are fundamental facts and rules to this universe that have nothing to do with beliefs and the number of people who follow or disbelieve and disagree. They simply are. Truth simply IS. We just ARE. The awareness of spiritual heights is something that can only be percieved after reaching there. We can see in daily life the amount of energy required to even get a degree, a job or make a relationship work. We don't simply sit in a couch and sing away to all these achievement, we put out energy and time and make them happen. Spirituality is a similar thing, only demanding much, much more. So, being complacent is counterproductive to spirituality. Although, I love first part of this topic: BE SPIRITUAL! cheers

Time can be defined. Time can be understood. Time is tangible, complete and it has a whole science working behind it. Time, as we know it, is divided into past, present and future. I am yet to see somebody who has a fourth thing other than these three. So, we attribute a measurable physical quantity to something that we did and call it "time", so that we can push it along and start working on new things. However, the answer lies in your question: "what on earth is time?" Time is something that only happens on earth, because it is a planet that has a veil made of time-space fabric that is put over most of its inhabitants. The earthlings have tried and are still trying to get down to "something" that can't be further divided and so we have the scientific definitions of "fundamental units" such as time, space, mass,etc. But, deep down, we all ask questions like, "but how far can we go dividing a nanosecond?" and so on. So, what I feel is that time is one of the two big lies that make up the fabric of time-space on planet earth, using which we describe, judge, plan and enact all our activities while living here. After we leave this earth, there is no time. Like someone else who replied to your question, the truth is that there is no time. Everything is happening in the NOW and so, there you have it: time is a physical measurable unit of physics to the scientists, a big, USEFUL lie to the rest of us!

Prana means life force and Yama means control. So pranayam is the control of life force. If you concentrate on your breathing deep enough, you will find that your breath is controlled by a force. So, if you try and control your breath, you will find that you will slowly be able to control that force which is behind the breath. Pranayam has come to mean simply breath control but it is much more than that. Yes, it can be used to reduce the rate of aging and so on, but it's most imporant effect is to take man to a state of awareness where he is able to cognize everything about himself that is true, that is present always and that has always been part of himself. Ever felt a void in yourself or a feeling of hollowness? If so, you would want to start doing pranayama. On the physical level, pranayam has immense benefits, including healing of diseases and such.

How exactly do you propose to do this? How does one raise the vibrations of a cell phone? It's a toughie to do so. Well I would suggest raising your own vibrations to a level where you would become one with the cell phone! On a serious level though, perhaps you could try abandoning your cell phone for a while, or try leaving it alone in a room instead of you being in a room alone with it. So, you would benefit much, no doubt, if you keep meditating on something good and you are right, we'll change the whole bad mood! Good luck with your endeavors!

Well Sean it's been 3 years since you posted this and I hope all is well with you now. I just joined this forum recently and this post interested me. You see, one of the many important things related to meditation, is the heart. Since you're training in martial arts, you know how to train your body, but you would need to train your mind and heart to understand meditation. What you went through is something that hit hard on your heart and you would've reacted just the way someone your age and in your place would've, so I'd not really worry about being "immature" at 15. However, since your'e 18 now, I hope things have progressed and you've got a good meditation technique to hold on to and are enjoying life. If not, well its never too late to start! Good luck

Hey there, well, this is something that is often overlooked as being something that doesn't work. Similiar to the martial arts, unless you've tried it you tend to be sceptical, and you can not describe how it feels unless you have actually taken part in it.

Well, over the past year I have been incredibly stressed ,and the past 7/10 weeks have been the worse. My parents have seperated in a really nasty divorce, my final exam year has just started at school, I have personal relationship issues and desires (I'm 15 by the way),I have a job that is very time consuming and I train in 6 martial arts, so I have had very little time to my self, and over the last couple of weeks it's really overwelmed me. I was getting to the end of my tether.. I was starting to become aggressive and started loosing it over very petty things, so this morning, before school (something I find incredibly dull, physically taiming and frustrating, I don't get on with many of my teachers, It isn't the nicest of schools, the sort of place you have to look after yourself, because the staff will not help out, and I haven't done aswell as I hoped in my previous years exams), so I decided to meditate before school. I used a 20 minute meditation technique I had picked up about a year and a half earlier. I found when I used it orginally it didn't really work, but perhaps I didn't really need it then? All I know is that the process does all the usual steps, the relaxation and the deep sensation, and the healing etc, and I really felt as if I went deeper than ever, and after it had finished, when I opened my eyes, I felt nearly paraylised in the bliss sensation of being totally relaxed, it was so beauitful, and all day I have been so gentle, patient and calm. Nothing has overwelmed me, annoyed me to a great exstent, made me act immature, made me 'fly off the feeling' and so on. In short - it worked perfectly. I can't describe the process of meditation, the perfect relaxtion you feel as you hit your centre.. I can't describe it, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what happens, either physically, mentally or spirtually. Has anyone else ever had this sort of experience, or does anybody else meditate regulary?

Thanks, Sean.

Meditation is a beautiful experience and it actually works. It is something that has to be tasted. Just like you can taste a mango and describe it in many ways, every person has an experience about meditation. Even the biggest scientist who is an expert on mangoes, can barely know what it is, unless he eats it. So, same is the case with meditation. What happens during meditation is that we focus our breath first, and then our mind, on something. Usually, something is God. So, just like prayer is asking God questions, meditation is listening to Him for answers.A beginner of meditation would find it helpful, if he could treat it as part of his life. In your case, if you're really interested, then it means that you are really trying to understand about this and you are showing yourself that there is more to your personality than what you knew. If done properly, meditation will only help you unravel more and more about yourself. Just as you shop for things, go ahead and do some "spiritual shopping" and check out the different kinds of meditation. All of us, as human beings, are magnets and I believe that each magnet has it's match. So, if you are genuinely interested in spirituality, then soon, you will attract to yourself whatever kind of magnetism you need to progress. I wish you good luck in your practices and hope that you will begin to enjoy yourself with this science. As always, there is the Xisto forums that would help you answer your questions. This is a nice magnet to such stuff and there are tons of people who are out there to help you out!

Spiritual counsel is usually given to people after they have reached the supposed age of discretion -- which is to say, when they can make up their own minds as to which set of values they will follow. Unfortunately, few people ever develop such discretion! Most of our values are imbibed during chldhood. The terrible mistake people make is based on the modern, supposedly scientific error that values consist of mere systems of belief, and have no objective validity. The education of children is generally considered forbidden grounds for giving such advice. Thus, formal education has become a matter of training the intellects of children; of preparing them for later employment; of stuffing their heads with facts and more facts -- without suggesting to them what they might do with those facts, once they've learned them. Schooling, therefore, becomes an education in meaninglessness and in life's essential purposelessness: indeed, an education in atheism. I think the main reason for the alarming number of childhood suicides is not the excessive pressure placed on children to learn, learn, and learn, that they may compete successfully with others when they grow up and achieve worldly respect and high position. The main reason, rather -- I am convinced -- is that children are given no high purpose in which to believe. Children today are taught to be cynics -- at an age when they have an absolute need for ideals of some kind. At that vulnerable age they are given nothing to believe in but dry facts and still drier principles.

 

This appalling state of affairs is based entirely on the belief that values of all kinds are entirely subjective. Childhood is the time for inculcating a completely opposite understanding. Jesus Christ said, "It is more blessed to give than to receive." This is so because one feels oneself happier in sharing with others. Life teaches us this truth, but usually only after many a painful taste of the fruit of selfishness.

 

True values are not only subjective: they are based on universal experience; they are not matters of taste.

 

Everyone in the world wants basically only two things: to avoid pain, and to find happiness. This truth traces back to what adi Swami Shankara taught: that God is Satchidananda: ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new Bliss. All beings are motivated by the need to achieve -- if not bliss, then at least lasting happiness.

 

India, in its ancient teachings, has given a completely acceptable explanation for why values should be made a part of every system of education. The underlying and universal quest for happiness can be taught to children. It will spare them much unhappiness in life. Man is happier, for instance, when he is kind than unkind. He is happier practicing contentment than complaining at how life is treating him. To the extent that he hurts others, he himself attracts hurts. The yamas and niyamas of Patanjali are not a system of beliefs: they are universal principles that hold true for every human being, regardless of the religion he follows or the society in which he dwells.

 

Intellect also is a one-sided aspect of understanding. What we understand with our hearts is, indeed, a surer guide to true comprehension.

 

Education should teach children that how they do things is more important to their well-being than what they do. It is time we learned that facts, and even skill, by themselves cannot produce a healthy society. Cooperation, positive thinking, kindness, and other eternal values are essential to a truly productive life and to the attainment of the universal goal of all life: happiness.

Okay, so...GOD. Strikes various meanings to different people. Definitions apart, we all have a more or less same view about Him. One thing which always fascinated me is that, if we do believe in God, then how come we sit where we are and make no attempt to know Him or to meet Him or whatever ? Why are many of us contented with religions and rituals ? Know what the funny part is ? Those very things say that He is beyond all of this !Another thing which fascinates me is the fact that people make fun of those who want to know God, who want to BE with Him, in short, devotees of God. No matter whatever religion one is in, or no matter what path he follows to God, there are always people who make fun ! The amazing thing is the ungratefulness that lies beneath all of their fun. Hypocrisy might be a good word, but then people are known to take it in a wrong way. Now, the ungratefulness lies in the fact that God is someone who's there to help you out of crappy situations and that's just about it. All the stuff about Him being a father, mother, friend, etc. are just....you know, they're just there ! Yeesh ! What a terrible attitude !