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Can There Be More Than One Universe?


matto

There is no real proof that supports the concept of time being a dimension, like a line constantly being drawn that one can backtrack on. Time is simply a matter of perception. For example, if the human brain worked twice as fast, time would also seem to go twice as fast, so the day would seem to last 48 hours instead of 24, but the actual number would never really change..

Firstly, time has been proven to be a dimension. Secondly, if you were to experience time 2x faster, then the day would be 12 hours, not 48.

The other Universe's aren't being created and destroyed. they all exist simultaneously although they are out of our reach and unconnected to the present universe that we see around us. in the 2-d example the other planes still exist just they aren't visible to someone in one of the 2-d universe.
by the way another possible 4th dimension(and possibly fifth) would be probability which is possibly a little easier to visualize. each minute movement along that axis would produce a slightly different universe along side our's where things haven't turned out exactly the same.

That is the same as saying that the past is existing at the same time as the present, AND at the same time as the future. THere is a possibility of more than one universe existing on the axis of the fourth dimension, but it won't work since there cannot exist two places in time at once.

Actually... maybe there can be, like the whole theory of time slowing down in a black hole. But that isn't in a different universe, as we can still get radiation and stuff out of black holes, and thus signals from astronaughts fallen into the blackhole, as Stephen Hawking used as an exapmle in "A Breif History of Time". It would still be the same universe, and thus it is impossible for there to be more than one universe.

edit:
No but seriously, you've got me thinking about this now. I'm thinking there can be more than one universe, but only one can exist at a TIME. No, but it's the same universe. That's like saying that yesterday we were in a different universe than the universe we are in right NOW. And when I typed NOW, I was in a different universe than I am in NOW. So it's really still 1 universe that is "refreshing" constantly.

amit nigam

hi all

actually Mr. Matto has confused me also.

these are some quotes from his last mail.

That is the same as saying that the past is existing at the same time as the present, AND at the same time as the future. THere is a possibility of more than one universe existing on the axis of the fourth dimension, but it won't work since there cannot exist two places in time at once.

No but seriously, you've got me thinking about this now. I'm thinking there can be more than one universe, but only one can exist at a TIME. No, but it's the same universe. That's like saying that yesterday we were in a different universe than the universe we are in right NOW. And when I typed NOW, I was in a different universe than I am in NOW. So it's really still 1 universe that is "refreshing" constantly.

i would like to see some more kinda explanation over this from him otherwise i will lose enough of my mind understanding this.

matto

Yeah, I've kind of confused myself

But I'll try to explain:
here is the secibd message I replied to, when things started getting confusing:

By the definition posted by matto it is still possible for there to be another universe. it just takes one postulate to be feasible. that postulate would state:
There is an additional dimension to our reality beyond the three that we are free to see and move in.

This is already satisfied in our world to date. The fourth dimenson would be time or to go a little further and place the restraint that it had to be another space dimension things will still work out because we would not be able to see or move freely in this fourth dimension. Just move a slight distance along that fourth dimension axis and you are in another three dimensional space and thus another universe although it may be completely empty or infinitely small.

since this can be hard to see for four dimensions so i'll give another example in three dimension but it'll involve a move to flatland. let's imagine that we live in 2 dimensions, our flat-universe. then let's place a line perpendicular to the plane at a given point. if you move any amount in the third dimension the point is not in the plane of the universe but there is still a plane there thus there would have to be another flat-universe.

His idea states that if we were able to move along the 4th dimension axis (time), then we would be in a different universe. This is feasable. But it is not possible for anything to travel back or forward in time. If any particle or atom was able to go foward or backwards in time, then another universe would exist, but since that is not true, then no it cannot work.
The whole idea of a black hole slowing down time does not make a new universe, nor a wormhole into a new universe (though possibly a wormhole into another place in the SAME universe). The fact that time slows down does not make it go forward nor backwards in time, so it is still in the same universe.

This:

There is an additional dimension to our reality beyond the three that we are free to see and move in.

is still true. We are unable to see nor move our position in time. That "postulate" does not in an y way make there a universe outside of our own. Nor does it counter the fact that the universe means "everything," and there can't be another universe because the matter in that universe will be included under "everything," making it part of our universe anyway.

That wasn't very organized, I was sort of regurgitating my thoughts into the post. Ask questions, and I'll give answers =D

leeleelee

?For thousands of years, people have wondered about the universe. Did it stretch out forever or was there a limit? And where did it all come from? Did the universe have a beginning, a moment of creation? Or had the universe existed forever? The debate between these two views raged for centuries without reaching any conclusions. Personally, I?m sure that the universe began with a hot Big Bang. But will it go on forever? If not, how will it end? I?m much less certain about that. The expansion of the universe spreads everything out, but gravity tries to pull it all back together again. Our destiny depends on which force will win.? ?STEPHEN HAWKING


matto

?For thousands of years, people have wondered about the universe. Did it stretch out forever or was there a limit? And where did it all come from? Did the universe have a beginning, a moment of creation? Or had the universe existed forever? The debate between these two views raged for centuries without reaching any conclusions. Personally, I?m sure that the universe began with a hot Big Bang. But will it go on forever? If not, how will it end? I?m much less certain about that. The expansion of the universe spreads everything out, but gravity tries to pull it all back together again. Our destiny depends on which force will win.? ?STEPHEN HAWKING

That's kind of off topic... why'd you post it? Did you have any conclusions you'd like to make about it or what you think its relevance is to there being more than one universe or not?

tdktank59

Yes there probably is explain where this universe came from is the main thing...you can just have a freak event unless we are using string theory...


truefusion

I believe Jesus (yes, the one from Biblical times) mentioned that there are about 9 heavens. Each one twice as big as the other. For example, the one we're in, if it were a 500 year's worth of travel to reach the 2nd heaven, it would take 1000 year's worth of travel to reach the 3rd, and so on, up to the last heaven. Beyond that? Who knows; maybe the Heaven of all heavens, where the angels are. You can make up your own theories from this. But, it's highly unlikely that he's wrong about this. Unfortunately for science, it may never be tested out.


Moolkye

truefusion: Where does he mention that? I don't remember reading that in the bible anywhere. If he did, please tell me what book and passage I would like to reread that one.Multiple universes are a great idea, but 2 things. I do not know what purpose they would serve. And I thought that only 1 object can occupie that piece of space at one time due to spacial collision. I could be wrong though.Meaning that two bodys of like origin or same matter can not occupy the same space without causing a heck of a lot of trouble.


Saint_Michael

People don't just throw money in a pile for no reason.


I have to laugh at that sorry if you havn't been paying attention for the last 6 years thats what we are doing right now, but more in terms of throwing it away for no reason.

@Truefusion, that maybe true in christian lore but it is never mentioned in the bible or at least the catholic and lutheran versions at least.

@Cerebral Stasis, to expand on that just a bit further you could use gravity wells to help stablize the space stations as well. to keep it boyant per say. But then the problem would lie in how to prevent space rocks from punching a hole in them and pretty much destroy it. Yes i agree greed is preventing us from going anywhere. But I think people will change once all our natural resources of energy are gone and that being Oil.

I also had this thought, I'm curious as to what nasa doesn't sling shot Satellites from the poles and see what happening above and below us they usually slingshot them left or right.

Well the Freak even for earth was the Big Bang, That theory has the most evidence that it did happen. BUt though I have feeling though that the whole universe was big bang and then during the course of millions of years smaller big bangs happen and thus here we are today.

Also I just read on yahoo a couple of days ago that Triton (neptunes moon) could have been part of the suns orbit a few million year ago since the rotation between triton and neptune is kind of strange and not normal for most rotations between 2 objects. Meaning it just takes enough gravity to rip something apart.


But leeleelee post on Hawkins question brings on another question, are we expanding universe or are we limited. Remeber we all thought at one time that our solar system was the center of the universe until technology proved us wrong. But we as humans are limited ot how far we can see in the universe as well. Who knows theri could be some force preventing us from going beyond out solar system.

Moolkye

I can't imagine being in a universe that has boundries. Expanding? In a sense I guess yes it is expanding, but then you have a boundry point out there somewhere. And that means there is something beyond the boundry. Unfortunately you can not have a limit. A limit says there is an emd to something. And if so there is something beyond that end. A balloon expands and only goes so far before it will bust and or contract again. But then there is more beyond the limits of that balloon. Ya know?


matto

I've seen several pieces of evidence in support for the fact that the universe IS expanding. That is true. I don't think that the universe has any boundaries: I believe it is impossible to hit a wall and not be able to pass it. I also believe that the universe has a FINITE amount of matter in it.But something else Hawking mentioned in one of his books is that it is possible that one could continue traveling in one direction within the universe, and eventually end up on the other side (like traveling around the Earth: There are no boundaries, there's a finite amount of matter, and yet you never come to an end)


truefusion

truefusion: Where does he mention that? I don't remember reading that in the bible anywhere. If he did, please tell me what book and passage I would like to reread that one.

@Truefusion, that maybe true in christian lore but it is never mentioned in the bible or at least the catholic and lutheran versions at least.

Heh, that's cause it's not in the Bible. The Bible lacks some information on specific events that really happened.It's in the Gospel of Barnabas: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/
But, i wonder, will you not believe it, just cause it's not in the Bible?

Dragonfly

There are these and that theories surrounding the existence of another Universe, since it is not proved the concept and the word to describe neither exist. And we still live with the idea of Universe. This is a hard guess because there is no proof to think that they actually exist. And even if they exist we have no communication with them nor such communication is not feasible. Therefore, in my personal opinion such kind of thinking are just a fantasy. Both the sides have their points that will never meet. It is like a saying, "There is three-mouth snake, but no one has seen yet"...


Moolkye

And that is a good point for a lot that science and religion have to offer. Funny how much they are similar more than they are different.Science does offer a lot of imperical evidence and religion offer spiritual evidence. Whether you believe in one or the other, thet truly are based on faith. yes even science.


trace-uk

well yeah there's other galaxy's but the UNIVERSE is intfinite. if you're saying that there's another universe then you're really talking about alternate dimensions.


matto

well yeah there's other galaxy's but the UNIVERSE is intfinite. if you're saying that there's another universe then you're really talking about alternate dimensions.

or different places in the same dimension and the same universe.

Saint_Michael

matto to your post about expansion of the universe scientists hae noe for years that the universe has expanded. I was toying with astromony back in my teenage years.

I believe the expansion had to do wit hte way galaxies are moving.

I recommend some of these readings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe%23ExpaBig_Bang_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_Law

it should explain a little bit on how the universe is expanding.

@truefusion I know about the mission chapters of the bible, some say its a dirty secret that the vatican is holding, I beeive another missing part of the bible was apoclytica or something like that. It has to do with more of the book of revalation of course their the mysterious book of jesus wrote himself as well, but that another topic to think about.


Cerebral Stasis

Firstly, time has been proven to be a dimension. Secondly, if you were to experience time 2x faster, then the day would be 12 hours, not 48.

I don't know what I was thinking there. Thanks for correcting me (in both instances).

unicornrose

Considering all the stars that we can see with just our naked eye when there is no light pollution I think that the universe is infinite. It can go on and on. There are probably alot of differant solar systems with suns like ours. It makes the most sense in my mind anyway. I suspect that there are indeed other universes that could be travelled to by spacial annomolies or something. I often wonder if there are parallel earths and universes as well. I sometimes wish that I was born or was able to travel to the future because I would hope that at some time in the future we will have figured out a way to travel the stars and find out what some of the universe is like. Sometimes this old earth seems really small. LOL


tdm

There cannot be another universe. The universe is everything that exists so there can only be one universe. Be cool to see a parrelel Universe but i doubt that would ever exist.



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