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Bush Wiretapping


uiop

George W. Bush, president of the United States of America revealed this last weekend that he authorized the National Security Agency to listen to the phone calls and incercept the emails of United States citizens suspected of having links to terrorists organizations. George Bush backed by Secreatary of State Condelezza Rice and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales continues in isist that what he did was well withen the limits of the law and constitution. Bush has yet to cite a specific law. His actions appear to violate the United States Constitution and the Electronic Communications Priacy Act.For More Information:cnn.comaclu.orgWhat are your feelings?


kasm

George W. Bush, president of the United States of America revealed this last weekend that he authorized the National Security Agency to listen to the phone calls and incercept the emails of United States citizens suspected of having links to terrorists organizations.  George Bush backed by Secreatary of State Condelezza Rice and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales continues in isist that what he did was well withen the limits of the law and constitution.  Bush has yet to cite a specific law.  His actions appear to violate the United States Constitution and the Electronic Communications Priacy Act.

For More Information:

cnn.com

aclu.org

 

What are your feelings?

214705[/snapback]

Whetever he is wrong or right in the eyes of constitution doesn't concern me. What I want say that US and Western countries critisized and are critising other countries even though these countries did fraction of what US and the western domcaracy did after 11/9.

 

I remember in 1956-1970 was in Egypt a president Nasser. Nasser has prosecuted many extremists from Moslem Brothers group . Many of them escaped to the west where they welcomed and protected by US and others. US and its allies criticized Egypt for human right violation. Some of these elements have explded Trade Center before 11/9. After 11/9 and London bombs, US, UK and Australia do worth 100 times what was critics for Egypt before.


brainless

surprise this shouldn't be too much of one or did anyone really believe that a clause like "you may not use these techniques against our own people" would stop an agency which is only sparcely controlled by a hand full of people which are probably going to keep their mouths shut for quite a while?this isn't going to be too much of a problem for german secret services: Our Secretary of State says that he'd like to get a law passed which requires every ISP, every mobile phone network provider, every phone company, every webmail-provider etc etc to save all user data (connections made; numbers dialled; numbers they were called from; duration of connection; emails sent and received...) for at least one year _and_ provide a software interface which officials can use to access this data without having to contact the company(ies) involved......oh, and by the way, police and agencies are supposed to be allowed to access these data pools without having to ask for permission by a judge (though this is already a farce 'cause usually they get their requests for wiretapping a phone passed within a couple of minutes...)


liauce

I actually read the article from the TIMES magazine about wiretapping and I believe its quite hard to conclude who's in the right or in the wrong. Bush has his reasons to use emergency powers. However, since it's Bush we are dealing with (who isn't by most people's faith been doing a very good job) then we have doubts.Overall, be thankful you have a media that will expose this. Think of other countries where the media is so controlled you may not hear of these atrocities but that may not mean they are not occuring.


Cerebral Stasis

I think that, if this is implemented for ALL U.S.A. citizens, it would be a definate invasion of privacy, and thus an opposition to the Constitution. However, if the phone/internet/etc. tapping is only being done on those who are suspected, with reasonable evidence, to be terrorists or terrorist supporters, I think that the President has every right to attempt to increase the nation's security.Once again, it's all about who is tapped and why.


hellRAISER666

Hahha thats not a surprise, thats kinda scare because. we are being watched by the Government 24/7. I have a friend that is in the army . He told me alot of stuff about how really dumb "George Bush" is. And that we are not nuking other countries because our nukes are from russia. And if we use there stuff the russians will nuke the U.S. Also i shouldnt be sayin this because the government might eventually see this and spy on us forums people . There was a movie about super soldiers, born and breed to kill. That wasnt just a movie it is real life. There are so much secrets the Gvt. are hiding from us.


Cerebral Stasis

You can't believe everything you hear and see, hellraiser, but I'll admit that the idea of the government hiding secret projects for the "ultimate weapon" are a bit disturbing, if not in fact, then due to all the science fiction movies that have been produced concerning these topics. In fact, that may even be one of the major reasons that they are so secret - the public, biassed by opinions expressed in movies and television, would not be open-minded enough to accept such things.


FLaKes

I think it would be really hard to read everybodies mails, or listen to everbodies conversations. They would need lots of people to do this, though I think they would develop a program to take care of the emails.


liauce

But seriously speaking, if you haven't done anything wrong or have nothing to hide then why would they wire tap you? Even if you have your private life to hide, wtih so many people's private lives to look at I doubt they even bother much about you.What I find funny is that this technology is so widely used for terrorist and those big criminals but never used on more minor criminals to find out the truth of the matter.Thus, I think we can all be at ease, they will not spy on us (unless again, you did something very wrong)


Cerebral Stasis

Okay, according to CNN, Bush is avoiding breaking the invasion of privacy amendment by a technicality - one of the parties involved in the phone conversation must reside outside of the USA. They are attempting to catch a collaborator in the act, apparently. So they apparently can not, and do not, tap phones of people who aren't suspects and aren't talking on the phone internationally.By the way, if they would, for example, wiretap one's phone who was not a terrorist, but found evidence to accuse them of something else, they could not use it in a federal court, since the evidence would have been obtained illegally (breaking the right to privacy).


brainless

cerebral: what would they need a court for? they've got Guantanamo...

* Reuters had a news about US customs and border protection [i'm not sure if there's a special agency for that, the word used in the german Reuters news was "Grenzschutz" so I translated it] opening letters from abroad.

(translated from german to english by me)
Customs and Border Protection have the mission to ensure that no terrorists or their weapons get into the country. One of our fields of interest is international mail coming to the USA. [...]


also mentioned in this news report was the case of Grant Goodman, a retired professor who received a letter from a friend of his on the Philippines and noticed that it had been opened by the customs.
I'm not sure about bleeding-edge technology in this field but I doubt that terrorists have found a way to fold themselves and their weapons to sizes which fit into standard-sized envelopes. Why would they bother to smuggle weapons into the country when they can be bought with little effort right there anyways?


* in late April 2003, a guy working for Medicins sans Frontieres (Doctors without borders) experienced what the Patriot Act means for anybody of the wrong origin:
I quote his closing remark: http://www.alternet.org/story/15770/patriot_raid

[...]
Every American citizen, whether they support the current war or not, should be alarmed by the speed and facility with which these changes to our fundamental rights are taking place. And all of those who thought that these laws would never affect them, who thought that the PATRIOT Act only applied to the guilty, should heed this story as a wake-up call. Please learn from my experience. We are all vulnerable so speak out and organize, our Fourth Amendment rights depend upon it.


-----

I myself did believe that law enforcement does only hit those guilty of breaking laws once.
Then I went to my first demonstration (something which should be covered under two main freedoms you should definitely defend: The Freedom of Speech and the Right to assemble [peacefully]), it got attacked by the police. To serve and protect...

...to serve and protect who? Obviously not us.


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