Proper English Within Posts

[Watermonkey 0]

Well....
The only problem with targeting every one with bad grammar is that you cannot always blame them for the bad language.

We have to keep in mind that not all the countries in the world are taught English as the first language .
These are a few reasons why a member might have "poor" English :-

1. Living in a place where English is not a priority. (In a place where the mother language or national language is spoken more than any other)

2. Due to bad teachers or their own faults, their English might be poor

3. Just plain old bad grammar.

4. Mobile Phones and their limits

Just one of those reasons is truly legitimate. The first one. We, as adults and responsible people must take responsibility for our own actions and not blame teachers or an entire education system for our lack of literacy. So, weather people are slow or they were allowed to graduate without reading, it's still their own fault. Believe me, I'm fully aware, more than you I'm betting, that illiteracy in the U.S. is rampant and completely out of control. Considering we're a "first world country" or an industrialized, developed nation, our own government through the federal department of Education, is intentionally dumbing down the population and we'll all pay for it eventually. Number three doesn't even make any sense, and neither does number four. What the heck does mobile phones have to do with anything? You seem to be making excuses for bad behavior.

I don't think a member should be warned, threatened, treated like a dunce just because he does not have a good grasp over a language.

I haven't seen anyone suggest anything to contradict this statement.

On the other hand, It is our responsibility to help members with poor English. I think being members in a "community" makes us responsible for each other's personal growth. By personal growth I mean Self esteem, disabilities, flaws and so on.

I had even suggested to OpaQue that we open a sub forum where members can post useful topics on how to improve their English... But we could not as we needed members who would take out the time to open topics and help members.

We would also need a forum leader who would monitor that particular part of the forum... As we could not find anybody active enough for the job.. We decided to shelve the project.

But If you are interested in it Misanthrope, I will be extremely happy to get the forum started for you You can email OpaQue further IF you want to volunteer for this.. It is not a compulsion what so ever

This is, specifically, where it sounds catty. To me, she's saying, "if you don't like the grammar problem, why don't you take time out of your busy day and volunteer to help abate the problem?" The actual problem isn't that grammar is being intentionally misused and the language is being purposely trashed, the problem is that the rule in place to counter that behavior doesn't seem to be enforced. So, instead of taking responsibility -she is a moderator after all, she's trying to put the responsibility to make the change back on Misanthrope. That seems a bit snide too. (snide -adj. derogatory or mocking in an indirect way)

Been there and still doing that... Almost 15 out of 20 posts are in text language in the FeedBacker section
I once re wrote a post because it had too much of slang and looked like a giant text

And since I'm being asked to respond to Velma specifically, (feel free to merge this post with the one above) I'll do just that: (I guess I'll just respond to her in quote tags above, then summarize it here.

I hope this clears up what I was saying about Velma's post. I believe she already figured out where I was accusing her of being catty and snide, so this just confirms it. Again, I've never heard anything about this project involving Tiki and Misanthrope. And I can't imagine a reason in the world why I would. Maybe I should not have gotten involved in this discussion, but the topic is a pet peeve of mine too, so why shouldn't I respond?

[rayzoredge 2]

This was probably the most civilized online multi-perspective argument I have ever read.

 

As for this squabble between respected members/staff/people I actually recognize on Xisto, I'd like to bring up the "high horse" statement. Drop it, considering the fact that everyone, including me, can actually read through this and possibly make up false judgment over an elementary argument. Bad mojo to the regulars, if you'd ask me.

 

I believe that anyone, moderator or mere member, has the right to post replies and make up threads when and if they wish, as we all collectively make up the Xisto "community." You can't just moderate... everyone's human.

 

And keep in mind that the typed word is much different than the spoken word, so anything from anyone can seem snide, catty, rude, prudish, or what-have-you. This is why I reserve my more sarcastic moments with people that actually know me well enough not to take offense or find anything wrong in what I say online... or even in real life.

 

I like the suggestion of foot-noting uncommon words to help with the reader, but it falls under two faults: a) the reader may feel belittled by the poster as apparently his or her vocabulary is seemingly "inferior" (there was a word for it that keeps slipping my mind... I'll edit and post later if I think about it), and posters shouldn't have to add footnotes to each and every one of their posts that may contain terms that may be unfamiliar to any possible audience. If you view any threads, you are probably either interested or knowledgeable in the field of discussion, so why not conduct a simple online search for its definition? I use dictionary.com with no shame... well, almost.

 

Another suggestion is to have some sort of way to denote native English speakers from the inhabitants of foreign countries, in which we can see if someone is just being lazy or even purposefully deviant when we see incorrect spelling, typos, etc. Problem with this is that people will feel segregated in the way that they will be "tagged," so to speak. Then again, there are people from foreign countries that speak BETTER than their native English speaker counterparts.

 

And yet another suggestion is to clean up posts, but no sane person would want to correct each and every post. If I can fathom, being a moderator on Xisto is not a paid job. However, I think the current thing that we have going - correcting posts and issuing warnings or notes - will work well, considering the fact that you make contact with an individual, let them know what's up, and if that person has a legitimate language issue, you can go back to the whole "ESL tag" suggestion I mentioned earlier.

 

I am a wicked grammar Nazi online and it almost drives me nuts to see typos and "txt tlk" galore, as it publishes intended ignorance which does lead to degraded English in the long run (since you'd be so used to typing that way). I hate knowing that some of my friends do the same thing and then ask me to proof-read their college works and whatnot, riddled with even common mistakes like the infamous you're-your problem.

 

Edit: The stupid word that I couldn't think of was "condescending."

Edited January 21, 2008 by rayzoredge (see edit history)

[OpaQue 15]

I will not say anything about the DEFENDING part because we both can write 10 extra posts of why one should reply or even bother replying when they are asked a question or remarked upon.

 

If Velma wants to communicate to Misanthrope, I'm sure she would just PM her.

If you wanted to communicate THE ABOVE to Velma, Sure you can just PM her.

 

like she'd rather defend herself or attack others instead of taking a simple, straightforward suggestion in the appropriate forum at its face value.

Something which I want to tell you.

 

Moderators who should know better have become argumentative and defensive.

I hope the above statement does not include Velma here. If it does, then its better that I tell my staff to not participate in your threads because there is uncertainty in the way our posts would be perceived by you.

 

This is a direct contradiction to what you said above, (and it's a contradiction to the responses seen here by other members who have, for whatever reason, taken this suggestion as a personal attack) so now I'm confused. Would you clarify what you're saying here please, Shree?

In Clear STATEMENT, Who gives you the RIGHT to give other MEMBERS behavior or attitude "NAMES". This applies to everyone here. Did you REPORT her post before openly flaming her.

 

Especially the part "I'm especially talking to you, Velma! Your post contained snide catty language and immature demeanor that would suggest you've got better things to do than respond to suggestions."

 

Just see the way you are writing things on this forum WM!. Keep your feelings to yourself because everyone might not perceive things like snide and catty. Just because you feel "something" does not give you the right to "openly" give adjectives and nouns to people in this community. And I refer to EVERYONE who gives others or their behaviors NAMES. Why get soo aggravated about "words" which can be represented with multiple meanings. Especially words which do not have emotions linked with them.

 

What she has written is her part of opinion. Whether her PM was read or Deleted is a different story. With so many of your assumptions here including the part where you think she is lying, don't you think you are crossing your limits.

 

WM if you feel you have NOT flamed at all... Then say so. There is no meaning of this conversation. If you feel that you have misunderstood any member's post, then like you have openly pointed fingers, an open apology is also appreciated.

 

I request all members who think have "FLAMED" here to openly apologize to the community and not even each other. Lets show that we care.

 

Some points for members :-

 

1. Please be OPEN. When you read posts, do not link any of your emotions to it. Because you never know the mood of the person typing them.

 

2. If you feel you are Being flamed or attacked, Read the post 3 more times from a THIRD persons perspective who has come to this forum for the first time.

 

3. If ANY member starts commenting your WORDS or SENTENCES thereby drifting from the main topic, Everyone has the RIGHT to "Ignore". Its the best policy which shows how humble & modest you are.

 

4. If you see TWO members fighting like CATS, Please REPORT.

 

5. You are here to post YOUR opinions about the Topic. The Quality of any Topic is by the number of Different ideas and feedback it receives. Make sure when you write, you are sticking to the TOPIC.

 

6. I request STAFF to DISAPPROVE any post which contains adjectives and nouns against any other member. The member who makes such a post will be WARNED straight away. Any post which has less of ideas and more of raised fingers will be deleted without warning.