Illegal Immigrants, Please Vacate This Nation.

[BooZker 0]

if you say its 51 billion it would over 19 years to catch up to 3 years of war (If i did the math correctly. forgive me if I didn't). I am looking at the long term. Every 3 years of war equals 1 trillion and the president doesnt want to take people out of the war, so don't expect it to end for at least 3 years and another trillion dollars later.But you said it is not about the money. I would like to know what you care about then? You mentioned health care, they dont pay taxes, health care, and as I see it that's all about money. So what are you trying to say then?And lastly I do not understand where you are going with your Native American thing. Most Native Americans were killed. Most did not recieve anything for the land. This is what I have learned from high school as well as college and internet research anyways. Could you direct me to what you are talking about. I know some were traded things, hence thanksgiving, but that was not even close to the majority or even half. Another thing, and this confuses me the most, Native Americans didn't even know you could buy land. They believed land didn't belong to anyone. Unless you created it, it was no ones. That is one reason there was conflict because they were defending the land, but not for themselves, but for the lands sake. Land was no ones in their world.The final word I have though is Indians are from India. This was a MISTAKE made by Columbus. If you did not know this I would suggest looking this up. I call myself white, and I call others black, mexican, asian, etc. I do not call them Indian. That would be like me calling you Mexican instead of American. Makes no sense. They are Native American and i'm not trying to be PC at all. I hate being PC. This however is common mistake such as saying Columbus discovered America when Leif Erickson, a Norwegian Viking, did in the late tenth century.

[takotsu 0]

Once again, the settlers gained land through trades and WAR. People die in war. These kinds of things happen. There were no falsities in my statements.

 

Please tell me, where did you get your information on the one trillion dollar per year cost of this war?

If you would kindly go to https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/?redirect=cow, this is a estimation calculator, this means that based on the information given by the government, this is the real-time cost of the war in Iraq.

At the time of this writing, it is at $440,882,700,000. This is far form your one trillion.

this means that we have spent the same in four years of war as we would in eight years of supporting illegals.

Please tell me your sources, I'm curious.

[mojoman 0]

America was built on immigration from people who brought their cultures.

Also, we didn't "steal" this country from anyone

Technically I don't think it was exactly stealing, but we forced Native Americans off their land and took it through war, killings, force, etc. America was a bunch of colonies, but expanded westward and forced many of its original native people, who had inhabited those lands for centuries, off their lands. Trail of Tears anyone?

My view on illegal immigrants is simple:

Get out, come back legally.

I don't care too much on the economic stuff involved in it really and I have no troubles what so ever on legal immigrants, but I just find it quite stupid that they can't work hard enough to enter the country legally. My parents worked very hard from squat to move here and make a decent living. My mom didn't known anyone when she first came, yet she worked her *bottom* off to make a good living, work a great job, and raise a family. Same with my dad, some of my friends, and probably a lot of the people here's parents/grandparents.

We're here, we're staying here, and if you don't like it, you can leave.

Lol owned, j/k. I don't think illegal immigration can stop, and that they will just blend in with the rest of America like the immigrants before them. They'll probably keep coming, regardless of whether they get caught over and over

killing children and innocent people

This is what you say about Iraq and what are Americans were doing

People die in war. These kinds of things happen

This is what you say about the Native Americans.
Weren't the Native Americans innocent people as well? With children? In my opinion its kinda contradicting yourself here



Or maybe I'm just pissing in the wind here with my post

[sweetcat 0]

i understand what your saying if you are to live some ware you should have legle papers for your immigration and have a max of 2weeks to get sitisonship in sead location if these laws are not obided by they are setinsed to life till there deported and stored on an island penitentary for a year and if there not clamed by famly they are sent back to there place of oregen

[Watermonkey 0]

The operative phrase there is when you were young. Most kids these days don't have a sense of work ethics. I substitute teach at the high school level and kids are much more affluent and spoiled than I ever was as a child. They've got iPods and designer clothes, PSPs and the latest cell phones, and even though they have money, they all want more. The problem is that they don't want to work for it. They're all about instant gratification.

I didn't grow up in Beverly Hills or anywhere close. I absolutely guaranty that kids are still mowing lawns in the summer in Medium/small town America to earn a few extra bucks. Additionally, a small landscaping business is a very profitable venture for anyone to get into. Let the free market take care of itself and it will, every time. We don't need illegal immigrants for any reason. They're criminals for crying out loud! We've got enough of the criminal class as it is!

Thank you Tetraca for pointing out that illegal immigrants don't just come from south of the border but from the north as well. It's just easier for them to blend in because they're the same race and speak the same language, but they're still here illegally. When you think about it, though, this country has been fueled by the blood of our immigrants and founded upon the ideals and beliefs of foreigners. The British colonists who forced the Native Peoples off their land and brought slave labor because they weren't going to do it their damn selves. Or the second wave of immigration during the Industrial Revolution when factories took advantage of the newest immigrants and paid them the cheapest rate. Then the foremen realized that they could get child labor even cheaper. Thankfully, someone decided that there were just too many kids dying from accidents and lung disease at the factories. You know, for a time it was the Irish who were despised and looked down upon in this country.

The reason slave labor was brought to the British colonies as well as Britania itself was because the colonists weren't willing to be slaves to the aristocracy. It was a class thing. Slaves were extremely expensive and required high overhead to maintain ($5000 initially, then food, housing, clothing, medical and all that), so don't downplay it like everyone owned a slave. It was pretty much a rare thing to know a family whose net worth allowed them that luxury. They paid dearly to have things done they considered beneath them. I'm not sure what you're intending to accomplish by saying the Irish were despised. At least they were mostly here legally. I'm sure there were some who weren't, but it wasn't wide spread like the problem today. Many peoples have been viewed in an unfavorable light when they were brought here legally to do heavy work, but they weren't forced to come here, they wanted to come here in hopes of building better lives for themselves. Think of the Chinese who were involved in the early railroads and mining 100-150 years ago. Many of them died, many went on and built themselves better lives and settled in this land creating a valuable diversity and opening the way for other Chinese immigrants to come here legally. There are many other cultures that could be cited as well such as Italians, Germans, Japanese, Koreans, etc. At one time or another, they faced adversity, had to work hard, and were not always welcomed by everyone, but many persevered and succeeded to establish themselves and thrive, legally.

Every time a new wave of immigrants flows into this country, there are complaints and racial tension. They don't look like us, they don't talk like us, so they don't belong here? Then America should stop spouting out the fallacy that this is "the land of opportunity and freedom" because they're buying into it. The same way our ancestors did when they came here. And unless you are from a tribe of the Native Peoples, your ancestors were immigrants too. Most people can't even imagine the kind of life that these people fled from. Poverty, rape, warfare, the uncertainty of whether you'll live through the next day or whether you'll be killed in your sleep. And I don't just mean poor, I mean poverty where your stomach gets distended from not having eaten in a month. Poverty where you can't get off your butt and get a job because there's no work to be had by anyone. Their lives have to be absolute *BLEEP* to make them go through what they have to in order to cross the border.

"Natives" are only indigenous to these lands longer then my family by some thousands of years. It's generally agreed by scientists that they immigrated to North and South America via the land bridge that connected NA to Siberia. The only difference is when they immigrated. I'm as much a native to this land as anyone else. And I like some immigration, less then allowed by congress now, but some. I absolutely abhor illegal immigration because it circumvents the law and order this nation needs to have to maintain civility and humanity. It circumvents our defenses against terrorists and diseases, as well as several felonious criminal classes such as sex-criminals, murderers, and drug dealers just to name a few. We must keep control of our borders or no one knows how many of these types will be here in a few years, a decade...

So stop your hegemony and realize that kicking them out or tightening up the borders isn't going to help and will only result in more companies outsourcing and relocating to areas where labor remains cheap. Try being more of a humanitarian and help build a better world so that immigrants would be just as safe and happy to stay in their own country rather than here.

Yeah. You're right. Let's not try to keep out the criminals. It's a losing battle, so let's all roll over and let them slash our throats and kill/rape all the children, men, and women who are here legally. Let's just give up before the shooting war has really started. That's the American way. [/sarcasm]

[FolkRockFan 0]

LEGAL immigration is necessary - and a very cool thing to see happen, if you ask me at least. I LIKE immigration. I'm the (eventual) product of people who, in the 1800s, stuck it out at Ellis Island so that they could become American citizens. They came here legally: I respect the garbage that they went through to better their lives and, as a direct result, make mine better.But ILLEGAL immigration just ticks me off. If somebody from ANY country cannot follow the immigration laws that we've established, then he or she does not deserve to cross any of our borders. Other people have been through worse things before - but still managed to find a legal way to come here. The immigration process is in place for good reasons. We have to make sure that we aren't letting criminals and other unsavory types show up here. That's just one reason for the paperwork and the waiting and stuff. Besides: many of the illegal immigrants cannot come here legally. They're sneaking across because they're criminals. Drug runners...gang members (ever heard of MS-13? Yeah - they're pretty nasty people)...et cetera. They need to be in prison in their home countries...not living it up in ours.As for illegal immigrants doing the jobs that we won't do: I'll pay more for tomatoes, yardwork, whatever...if it's done by either an American citizen or a welcome guest.

[Galgy 0]

Some day we need a bill like this to pass or something even harsher on the Illegals

 

Fact Sheet: Bipartisan Border Security and Immigration Reform BillPresident Bush Urges Members Of Both Parties To Support The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill Now In The Senate. The status quo is unacceptable – by acting now, we can ensure that our laws are respected, that our borders are secure, that the needs of our economy are met, and that our Nation helps newcomers assimilate.

 

The Lessons Of History Are Clear: All Elements Of This Issue Must Be Addressed Together – Or None Of Them Will Be Solved At All.

Illegal immigration is a serious problem that has been growing for decades. Past efforts to address it have failed because they did not do enough to secure our Nation's borders, failed to address the underlying economic reasons behind illegal immigration, and failed to provide sensible ways for employers to verify the legal status of the workers they hire.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform Must Accomplish Five Clear Objectives

 

1. Securing The Border Under The Bipartisan Immigration Reform Bill, Temporary Worker And Z Visas Will Not Be Issued Until Meaningful Border Security And Worksite Enforcement Benchmarks Are Met. These triggers include:

 

Increasing border fencing.

Increasing vehicle barriers at the Southern border.

Increasing the size of the Border Patrol.

Installing ground-based radar and camera towers along the Southern border.

Ensuring resources are available to maintain the effective end of "Catch and Release" at our border.

Ensuring a reliable Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) is established and in use.

To Show The Government Is Serious About Meeting These Benchmarks, The Bill Provides $4.4 Billion In Immediate Additional Funding For Securing Our Borders And Enforcing Our Laws At The Worksite.

 

2. Holding Employers Accountable For The Workers They Hire

 

The Bipartisan Immigration Reform Bill Sets Up A Sophisticated Electronic EEVS To Give Employers The Tools They Need To Verify The Status Of Workers. EEVS will require workers to present a limited range of stronger and more readily verifiable identification documents, which will be checked electronically against Federal and State databases.

 

EEVS Will Allow Employers To Verify The Authenticity Of Documents By Providing Access For The First Time To Identification Photographs In Government Databases.

The Bill Imposes Stiff New Criminal And Civil Penalties On Employers Who Continue To Hire And Employ Illegal Workers. Under current law, the civil fine for employers who hire illegal workers is between $275 and $2,200 per alien for first-time offenders and between $3,300 and $11,000 per alien for four-time offenders. Under the bill, the civil fine for employers who hire illegal workers will be raised to $5,000 per alien for first-time offenders, and to $75,000 per alien for four-time offenders.

 

3. Creating A Temporary Worker Program

 

Under The Senate Bill, A Temporary Worker Program Will Allow U.S. Law Enforcement To Focus More Resources On Apprehending Violent Criminals And Terrorists. The temporary worker program will help meet the needs of our economy and reduce the number of people trying to sneak across our borders by providing a lawful and orderly channel for foreign workers to fill the jobs that Americans are not doing.

 

This Temporary Worker Program Has Tougher Labor Standards And More Robust Protections For U.S. Workers Than Any Existing U.S. Nonimmigrant Worker Program.

Before hiring a temporary worker under the bill, an employer must first try to recruit U.S. workers for 90 days – three times longer than any other temporary worker program.

Temporary workers under the bill must be paid the prevailing competitive wage, which is based on the wages paid to U.S. workers, and ensures that the wages of U.S. workers cannot be undercut.

 

4. Resolving The Status Of The Millions Of Illegal Immigrants Already In The Country

 

The Bill Will Strengthen Our National Security By Bringing The Millions Of Illegal Workers Already Here Out Of The Shadows – Without Amnesty. This will allow law enforcement officials to know who is in the country and allow immigration enforcement officers to focus their resources on finding and apprehending violent criminals and terrorists.

 

Illegal Workers Already Here Must Come Forward And Pay A Fine. In order to obtain a Z visa granting temporary legal status, workers in the country before January 1, 2007, must come forward, pay a $1,000 fine, pass criminal background checks, remain employed, and maintain a clean record.

Z Visa Workers Must Pay An Additional Fine, Learn English, And Meet Other Requirements To Apply For A Green Card, And Cannot Receive One Until Years In The Future. Z visa workers must apply at the back of the line and wait until the current backlog is cleared, pay an additional $4,000 fine, complete accelerated English and civics requirements, maintain employment, leave the U.S. to file their application, and compete in the merit system based on the skills and attributes they will bring to the United States.

Satisfying The Requirements In The Bill Will Take Most Green Card Applicants More Than A Decade.

 

5. Finding New Ways To Help Newcomers Assimilate Into Our Society

 

The Bill Will Strengthen The Assimilation Of New Immigrants. The bill declares that English is the national language of the United States and calls on the United States Government to preserve and enhance it. It also enacts accelerated English requirements for many immigrants. In addition, the DHS Office of Citizenship will be expanded to include coordinating assimilation efforts in its mission, and the Secretary of Education will make an English instruction program available for free over the Internet.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This bill is one that is curently traveling around out goverment an I believe that President George W. Bush says it best, "I view this as an historic opportunity for Congress to act, for Congress to replace a system that is not working with one that we believe will work a lot better. In other words, this is a moment for people who have been elected to come together, focus on a problem, and show the American people that we can work together to fix the problem."

There are still some problems with this bill, yeah the borders will become tighter but we need to strangle them, all borders should have 30 fences with military trained snipers on top with a free fire zone allowing them to shot and kill those who are comming into the country illegally. All the house within 50 miles need to be searched for tunnels, all the ground should have sonar go over it to find the tunnels, the tunnels then should be collapsed and laced with anti-personal mines, The area towards which the illegals are coming from should have mines.

 

Once this is all completed it come close to stopping the illegals from getting into the United States. Then those who are found to be here illegaly should be taken before a court and found guilty of illegal immigration and the penalty should either be deportation or capitol punishment, they should be killed.

 

It doesn't make sense to do this half heartedly we need to send a message and the best message would be the removing of all illegals in the United States of America, because they are taking advatage of use and they are here illegally. All ilegal immigrants are breaking the law and all deserve to be punished.

 

Notice from Velma:

Has modified the post that was originally from https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues

[svsnipa 0]

i hear ya man.but penalizing employers will only make them try harder to cover it up and cause the illegals to counterfeit even more documents. sure, some will leave that town, but none of them are going back to mexico.
did you know that if you try to illegally enter mexico, you'll be shot? and yet, the government is handing out comic books about how to get to America, what organizations to go see to get amnesty, and how to find jobs.
it's insane!

yea I agree with that. illegals are real cheap labor so theyre in demand. the govt. should put huge fines and restriction on hiring illegals

[Watermonkey 0]

Some day we need a bill like this to pass or something even harsher on the Illegals...
...
It doesn't make sense to do this half heartedly we need to send a message and the best message would be the removing of all illegals in the United States of America, because they are taking advatage of use and they are here illegally. All ilegal immigrants are breaking the law and all deserve to be punished.

Well, I guess because of all those spelling mistakes, I have to assume you either copied and edited to make that look like your own, or you actually took the time to write all that down just to address this problem, in which case, even with the spelling errors, COOL! I think I'd pretty much stand behind this bill as long as I knew and approved of the specifics. Looks like a pretty good beginning. I couldn't care less about partisan politics though, they shouldn't be partisan, they should be pro-American. We'll work on that one of these days though...

[mandla 0]

I know we dont want illegal immigrants in our countries but has anyone ever realised that there are two types of illegal imigrants. Well both are illegal but have we ever stopped to see what makes us hate illegals. To be honest most of us dont have illegal immigrats or whatever variation we want to use be it dislike, dont want etc. It is because we feel our governments are making us pay extra for them. Nobody wants to take their hard earned cash and have to hand it over to jose or Peurto's family. And yes we would all get mad if the government forced us to do so and threatened us with revoking of our freedom if we didnt comply (being arrested and sent to Prison for Tax Evasion)But then why are we taking out our anger on all illegals especially the ones trying hard to become a good part of our community. See illegals were fine until we realised that most illegals are getting involved in crime and gangs and violence etc. but then we dont really know who they are but we do know that illegal families come to our countries to look for work and end up doing crime. So if we didnt give them jobs they would stop coming cause they'd be no reason to come right - WrongEveryone is trying to make a better life for their family and we are born in poor countries like Mexico, Zimbabwe, Irag, Congo, and all other poor countries not by choice and sometimes these families have qualifications but the countries are mismanaged and there is high unemployment and no food. (Zimbabwe is in the papers cause of the That) what do you expect those families to do say they have 1000 US dollars left in the bank and they know that this is their last hope. Would you not take that money buy tickets to a country you know your family will have a chance at better life and education not for free but if you can get the job you qualified for and ofcourse you'll migrate.But when you get to America or England the Visa Authorities will say come in to the country but you can work, your a visitor till we sort out your papers and they take say 2 years. What do you feed your children with for those two years. You end up getting cleaning jobs to feed and pay rent and then we all campaign for tougher fines and jail sentences for employers employing people without papers and the employers definately wont risk getting arrested and their families starving for the sake of an illegals child. Survival mode switcheds on and say Rather MY FAMILY EATS than YOURS. So immigrant gets sacked. and for twwo months he looks for work. No one employes them they are qualified but no papers. From company to compny . door to door they go - NO WORK for ILLEGALS. They go home and find like Angie crying and laying on the floor, an eviction order has been served for lack of paying rent and his wife is always compaining or even threatening to leave him for someone who will take care of the children. or worse still become a prostitute and make money. The natural instinct of a family man kicks in and he goes into survival mode before you know it the man is on the streets waiting down a dark alley behing a casino and a guy or girl walks out of the casino happy they just hit the jackpot. He thinks to himself that they dont need all that money and walks to them and asks for some money so he can feed his family maybe he gets lucky and is given some by a generous punter or the punter tells him for K**k off and in his mind fully convinced that he is not really doing a bad thing he mugs the punter and takes some money from him as the days continue his guilt conscience stops nagging and the robbing gets more easier to comit and soon he's out of luck he gets arrested and sent to prison. His wife has no choice but to sell her body to provide for the kids and when he come from prison no one will employ an ex con so its back to the streets again and all the papers report is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS COMMITING CRIMES ETC and Homeland security turns around and say you a criminal and have a record so we cant grant you stay. Go back to your country of origin and thet immigrant thinks where will i go. I have nothing in that country at least here I arrived with 40 dollars and by now I have a room to rent for my family and the little furniture we bought when I was working as a cleaner. We have something here. Going back means going to a country where I couldnt get a job not because I wasnt legal or unqualified but because there was plain no work at least here I can get a cleaning job. So that NIGHT THEY RUN.

[Kioku 0]

I really don't get WHY you people complain. It's not as if though they're coming here to be spiteful. They're fufilling lower class jobs that average US citizens don't want to do. This offers a low paying work force and helps our economy. It's practically slavery, except they're being paid. Compared to Mexico, the US is El Dorado. ( Anyone who doesn't think the US is the best, if not one of the greatest countries in the world is just trying to bandwagon, because they don't have actual opinions. By GPD, America is one of the richest in the world. We're also the most generous. ) They're just trying to support their families. I'm pretty sure a majority of them AREN'T drug smugglers but I could be wrong.The only way to permanently rid our country of illegal immigrants it to legalize the process, period. There's no other way. If they're legal US Citzens, they will have to be paid at least minimum wage. This would rid the enticement of paying them really low, so employers wouldn't bother. Why hire a person who doesn't speak engish in a major english speaking country? Without being able to get hired, illegal immigrants wouldn't have any reason to come here. Tadah. Shut up already.

[FolkRockFan 0]

The people who come here LEGALLY can get minimum wage, or better, pay for whatever jobs they do. They are being rewarded for coming here through the proper, legal channels. Whether they become citizens or remain welcome guests, they belong here. They have a rightful place here.We don't have to change that aspect of the immigration system because those rewards and benefits are already in place. It's already MUCH better to immigrate LEGALLY. The benefits of being here legally DEFINITELY outweigh the benefits of sneaking in. So why in the world do so many ILLEGALS cross a border to sneak in here? Many are criminals even before they cross. If they applied for legal entrance, they'd be denied. I don't pity them at all. They make a buck fifty an hour picking tomatoes because they chose a criminal lifestyle. Whether they were criminals of whatever type before they came here...or they became criminals by sneaking into this country...they're criminals. I don't feel sorry for them. Period.

[9block 0]

I actually think that is a brilliant idea. If you punish employers for hiring illegals then the illegals wont have jobs, and therefore have no reason to come to america. This has two loopholes. Seeing as they are already set up for creating forged documents, obviously they can forge more to become "legal" - however the law will make it harder for most, and impossible for some. Next to that, there are many farms that hire under the table. I live in Canada, and I live in a potato town. Every friday a couple buses come into town with mexican's galore. I have no idea if these people are illegal or not, and I am not going to assume whether they are, or if they are not. But I could bet you that most of them are under the table with there wages.

[theryan518 0]

Okay I dont agree with allowing illegal immigrants to live in the United States, but i am tired of hearing everybody whine about it. People always go on about how much of a problem immigration is, but what is whining going to do about it? the average united states citizen has no authority to make a difference about national issues. I don't know why people act like illegal immigration is a problem that nobody but themselves is aware of. Illegal immigrants will always find a way to enter the country no matter how much you act like a racist. The by far dumbest argument is the one that says that all the illegal immigrants are stealing american's jobs. No american citizen should have trouble getting a job where you live, if you don't have one it's because you are lazy and aren't willing to put in the effort in order to compete with people who will willingly work for less money. Also, if all corporations payed illegal immigrants the same wages as average americans, then they would have no insentive to hire illegal immigrants in the first place because of the risk.

[theryan518 0]

also, to prove my point about being too lazy to find a job, just how many people are posting on these forums just to avoid paying for webspace on another internet host?