Illegal Immigrants, Please Vacate This Nation.

[takotsu 0]

where i live, nearly 90% of the population is Hispanic but only about 50% of them are legal citizens.

what i don't get is why my family is paying nearly $400 to send three children to school while some ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are paying nothing.

oh, wait, i know why

because almost every illegal in this country, (the us of a) is mexican or hispanic and every time a law is passed against illegals, it's quickly shot down by them for "racial discrimination."

a tax on rice isn't discriminant towards asians because they eat it more often. we just eat it more often.

thanks to the laws of this country, you can BREAK A FEDERAL LAW by coming into this country ILLEGALLY, get a drivers license (FRAUD), not pay taxes (TAX EVASION), and live with 20 others in a one family house (various housing code violations).

These are not just random stereotypes i've heard on the street, i've seen these all in action and know of several dozen people committing all of these crimes.

the saddest part is that the government refuses to do anything about it.

...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...

this means that because the government is not fulfilling it's duties to the people of this nation, it is our duty as LEGAL CITIZENS to change, take charge of, or rebuild the government.

This is growing increasingly difficult in my town.

Being that it is not required that you be a LEGAL CITIZEN to speak during the allowed time at a city council meeting, this very, very short period is being overridden by illegals demanding rights.

YOU ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, BREAKING THE LAWS OF THIS NATION AND DEMANDING RIGHTS!

you don't break into a house and demand that they give you something, you follow the rules and laws and legal gain access to it.

 

All illegal immigrants (NOT "undocumented workers" or whatever PC name you have for them) should be deported IMMEDIATELY. It doesn't matter if they are Hispanic, Asian, Black, or White, they all need to go.

 

Did you know that the US government spends $51 billion every year giving illegals Social Security, Welfare, food stamps, and free education (not a right for illegals)?

Did you also know that the government has estimated that it would cost around $45 billion to deport every illegal immigrant in this country?

 

think about it. $51 billion per year, or $45 billion once...

[Watermonkey 0]

I don't know where you're at, you might update your profile, but AZ governor has finally said enough is enough and has demanded that all businesses check the legality of the person they're hiring and that's the key. Deportation doesn't need to cost a thing if the government would simply enforce laws already on the books, stiffen the penalties for businesses who illegally hire (I'm talking HUGE fines and jail time), and most of the illegals will leave. Make sure there isn't anything here for them and they'll go away, and if you did that to the vagrant population, they'd go away too. I promise, it sounds mean, like shouldn't we all feel sorry for those poor homeless people and pity them for their misfortunes, etc., well, drop coins in their jars and like flies to a carcass, they'll come in droves and cause all sorts of problems. There's a better way... Help people help themselves. Seal the borders because, for no other reason, the people passing through are bringing with them a host of infectious diseases like leprosy, TB, and all manner of ailments, then they seek medical treatment and we're suppose to treat them for free? I don't think so. I think they should be turned away from public hospitals if they're "undocumented" and they can go to a charity hospice if they want. I, too, and sick and damn tired of paying for their free lunches while I watch my once mighty dollar decline to near worthlessness and every week when we go to the store our spendings are increasing dramatically while our income remains unchanged. Bush supposedly lowered taxes, but the economics of the stage his administration set have done more harm to the middle class in this country then any tax hike could've. Inflation, which is a number much higher then the official government figures which don't take into account fuel, food, or housing, is, in and of itself, a tax and it's between 10 and 12% right now and going higher while the fed refuses to raise interest rates because of its lie that inflation is hovering around 4.5 to 5%. We're under attack from our own government and you'd have to be in a vegetative state not to see it. I give it just a few more months and the Canadian Loon is worth more then our dollar. Mark my words.

[takotsu 0]

i hear ya man.but penalizing employers will only make them try harder to cover it up and cause the illegals to counterfeit even more documents. sure, some will leave that town, but none of them are going back to mexico.did you know that if you try to illegally enter mexico, you'll be shot? and yet, the government is handing out comic books about how to get to America, what organizations to go see to get amnesty, and how to find jobs.it's insane!

[t3jem 0]

I live near the mexico border and do see many mexicans and have seen illegals crossing the border. I definitly do not want illegal immigrants coming into the country, they can get in legally through a process set up by the government (i know it may take years). The biggest issue I have with illegal immigration is that the illegals don't even learn english before coming here, then they demand that people interpret for them. Seeing spanish translations on a product in a store deters me from buying it, if they are going to illegally come into the USA they should at least learn our language. They are tresspassing on our land and should abide by our laws and pay our taxes. I don't think the tax payers should pay for illegals to be exported, but unfortunatly we have to. The new immigration bill (the one that will make thousands of illegals, citizens) should definitly make the illegals take a test and know english before they can become citizens. I beleive the illegals should be allowed to become citizens, but only if they follow the naturalization laws that other immigrants must follow.

[Tetraca 0]

I'm more concerned about them putting weight on our American taxdollars than them changing our language, but that's high on the list of why I don't want illegal immigrants in this nation as well. What we need to do is tax employers of illegals highly so their profits are hurt greatly. Then there is no incentive for them to hire illegals, then jobs will he filled by American citizens. Since the illegals cannot get jobs, they will return to Mexico or Canada(or wherever) and either attempt to get here legally, or get a job in their home country, thus improving its economy and paving the way to making illegal immigration undesirable.

[GamerGlitch 0]

I don't like the fact that so many of them (illegal immigrants) are living in the United States either. However, to look at the positive side, becasue it looks like most of the negative points have been covered, a lot of these aliens are doing some of the hardest jobs in America. Many of them do yard work, roof work, etc. All manual work. And without them, since their are so many, there could be shortages. Plus, the more people doing laborious jobs equals competition, competition equals lower rates, and competitive pricing. So what all this means is that we can get our Roofs, or manual work, which many of us are too lazy to do ourselves, for cheaper prices. And, what, if all of them left, the jobs they filled would suddenly go empty, the supply would lower (The amount of people who could perform the labor jobs), but the demand wouldn't change, it would cost us more to get or Roofs, etc. done. Also, many of these aliens are nice poeple, and what if you were born in Mexico, a third world country, wouldn't you have an urge to live in America, as well. I know if I was born there I would sure as heaven jump that fence, or find another way here, to America, land of the free, home of the brave. If you think about it, all them breaking into our country illegally is sort of flattering

[Watermonkey 0]

Your happy go-lucky description of illegal immigrants is sickening to me Gamer. Are you some kind of apologist or are you just playing Devil's Advocate? The fact of the matter is when I was young, I was the guy who mowed lawns to earn a little extra money in the summers. That's a good job for kids. Now days, kids have a harder time finding these unskilled jobs when they're in high school because of the "competition" you embrace. As for prices, I would be happy to pay more to employ legal workers to repair my home then to see my hard earned money get sent to Mexico. I try not to buy Chinese garbage too, though it's not always possible. The more money that stays in America, the better off we all are. As it stands, we've got a very dim, 3rd world country future unless we bring the money flow back to the United States. Happy Independence Day.

[TikiPrincess 0]

The fact of the matter is when I was young, I was the guy who mowed lawns to earn a little extra money in the summers. That's a good job for kids. Now days, kids have a harder time finding these unskilled jobs when they're in high school because of the "competition" you embrace.

The operative phrase there is when you were young. Most kids these days don't have a sense of work ethics. I substitute teach at the high school level and kids are much more affluent and spoiled than I ever was as a child. They've got iPods and designer clothes, PSPs and the latest cell phones, and even though they have money, they all want more. The problem is that they don't want to work for it. They're all about instant gratification.

Thank you Tetraca for pointing out that illegal immigrants don't just come from south of the border but from the north as well. It's just easier for them to blend in because they're the same race and speak the same language, but they're still here illegally. When you think about it, though, this country has been fueled by the blood of our immigrants and founded upon the ideals and beliefs of foreigners. The British colonists who forced the Native Peoples off their land and brought slave labor because they weren't going to do it their damn selves. Or the second wave of immigration during the Industrial Revolution when factories took advantage of the newest immigrants and paid them the cheapest rate. Then the foremen realized that they could get child labor even cheaper. Thankfully, someone decided that there were just too many kids dying from accidents and lung disease at the factories. You know, for a time it was the Irish who were despised and looked down upon in this country.

Every time a new wave of immigrants flows into this country, there are complaints and racial tension. They don't look like us, they don't talk like us, so they don't belong here? Then America should stop spouting out the fallacy that this is "the land of opportunity and freedom" because they're buying into it. The same way our ancestors did when they came here. And unless you are from a tribe of the Native Peoples, your ancestors were immigrants too. Most people can't even imagine the kind of life that these people fled from. Poverty, rape, warfare, the uncertainty of whether you'll live through the next day or whether you'll be killed in your sleep. And I don't just mean poor, I mean poverty where your stomach gets distended from not having eaten in a month. Poverty where you can't get off your butt and get a job because there's no work to be had by anyone. Their lives have to be absolute *BLEEP* to make them go through what they have to in order to cross the border.

So stop your hegemony and realize that kicking them out or tightening up the borders isn't going to help and will only result in more companies outsourcing and relocating to areas where labor remains cheap. Try being more of a humanitarian and help build a better world so that immigrants would be just as safe and happy to stay in their own country rather than here.

[BooZker 0]

I do not think you know much about economics. Let's go over just a few things and maybe you will understand why you can't do what you are talking about unless you want to start over from scratch. Here are my points of why:

 

First off we are ALL immagrants and we stole this country from the people who actually owned it and then we killed them. Do not start complaining about this when the only true people who have the right to are the ones who have the country taken from them. It would be like I have an iPod you take it from me then someone takes it from you and you complain about it, but i dont ever utter a word.

 

Next off economics. Do you know how the economics of America work? It's a capitalist one. In this matter we NEED them. That is why we all are losing jobs to people in other countries doing the work for us. We need to do the work as cheap as possible and sell for the most we can get for it. If we didn't do this our country would not be as rich as it is. That is also why we do not have health care is because that costs to much. Don't you get that?

 

Now the president. He is the most greedy president we have ever had. He only wants money. This is true and you know it. If he were to get all the illegal immagrants out the entire nation would collapse. It really trully would. He needs them. Don't you get that America was built on capitalism and without the illegal immagrants who work for less then the minimum wage our nation wouldn't be where it is at today.

 

Did you also know that the government has estimated that it would cost around $45 billion to deport every illegal immigrant in this country?

Did you know we would also loose just about everything also? the health care and crap your talking about which costs 51 billion is nothing compared to how much we spend on a war to get oil. We spend so much on the war where our children friends and family die as well as the innocent people in Iraq and you are complaining about people whos life are total trash and they come up here to work for our country which NEEDS them. It just amazes me.

[takotsu 0]

First off we are ALL immagrants and we stole this country from the people who actually owned it and then we killed them. Do not start complaining about this when the only true people who have the right to are the ones who have the country taken from them. It would be like I have an iPod you take it from me then someone takes it from you and you complain about it, but i dont ever utter a word.

sorry, but you are incorrect in your logic.

Personally, I am not an immigrant. I was born in this country and am a legal citizen. I've never lived in any other country.

Also, we didn't "steal" this country from anyone. When America was a group of colonies, the English government sent people to populate this land.

What I believe you meant was the land trade with the Indians. The Indians sold land to the English settlers. However, the settlers did take land from them. How? Through war, with armies and invasions.

These "aliens" as they were called, are nothing more than an invasion force. They come here, make money, and take it all back to Mexico.

 

Did you know we would also loose just about everything also? the health care and crap your talking about which costs 51 billion is nothing compared to how much we spend on a war to get oil. We spend so much on the war where our children friends and family die as well as the innocent people in Iraq and you are complaining about people whos life are total trash and they come up here to work for our country which NEEDS them. It just amazes me.

Now why would you bring up the war, which has nothing to do with the argument?

Could it be because you have no other real valid points against illegal immigrants? Is this why you try to imply that not only are the American forces killing innocent people in Iraq, but that people who are against law breakers in this country are also for killing children and innocent people?

Our country does not NEED illegals. I guarantee that America will function the same, if not better, without them.

 

It amazes ME that you would sit there and try to push buttons on hot topics that are unconnected to this debate in order to contort the views of the forum members by misconstruing the facts. I know that you are playing on the people's dislike of president Bush to push them toward your side of the argument.

That, my friend, is sad.

[Tetraca 0]

Now the president. He is the most greedy president we have ever had. He only wants money. This is true and you know it. If he were to get all the illegal immagrants out the entire nation would collapse. It really trully would. He needs them. Don't you get that America was built on capitalism and without the illegal immagrants who work for less then the minimum wage our nation wouldn't be where it is at today.

America may be built on capitalism, but not only are these illegals getting an unfair wage, they are also causing a bubble which unbalances the natural progression of inflation. Since these people work for less, other people are replaced by them. Now companies can produce goods for less money. But now due to inflation the prices rise, but the wages in jobs do not increase to offset this because we have illegal immigrants who can do the work for us without us needing to pay more. Goods are produced for the same price they were before and not less like normally. Now the goods are more expensive to us, and employers are lowering the economy to Canada's level, and possibly Mexico's in a longer period of time.

 

In addition we are not a manufacturing country anymore. We've opened ourselves to the world - we aren't isolationist despite its idealism. The country is moving from the production industry to a service industry(an industry where people that work as doctors, janitors, and teachers are more plentiful than factory workers). We don't need these workers as much anymore. The only application where we are really producing goods that we will perpetually keep is the farming industry and the auto industry. I have relatives in the farming industry. Farms don't even need tons of workers anymore. Tractors?have?integrated?GPS?systems which nearly completely automate the entire process of removing corn and other such goods.?The?auto?industry?is?pretty much crumbling?in?the?US.?Legal?workers?could?find?work?in?animal?farming and other dirty jobs.

There's enough workers coming into the country to satisfy this without the need for illegals. We still have a jobs to fill that these immigrants can fill in additon to those that can't find jobs here. I'm sure many jobs will be open if illegals were exiled.

 

Did you know we would also loose just about everything also? the health care and crap your talking about which costs 51 billion is nothing compared to how much we spend on a war to get oil. We spend so much on the war where our children friends and family die as well as the innocent people in Iraq and you are complaining about people whos life are total trash and they come up here to work for our country which NEEDS them. It just amazes me.

We don't need illegal immigrants. We need legal immigrants who work at decent wages. As I said if we overtax those businesses who hire even one illegal we now offset the costs of the war and offset the tax money that we waste on them. If we need more immigrants coming into this country than the hundreds of thousands coming here legally already, the government can just increase the quota. The only way illegal immigrants would be a benefit to this nation is if we tax cocaine and other various drugs. There are tons of it crossing the border each day, smuggled in humans, pets, food, et cetera that cross this border legally or not.

 

The only way we're really going to stop illegal immigration is if we punish those that feed it, and improve the countries that this immigration comes from so the desire for illegal immigration is reduced to 0, but we can still have immigration. My idea to do this is through heavy taxation to businesses to chose to do hire illegal workers, increase peace corps funding for our southerly and easterly nations could theoretically help at least a little bit in stopping this.

[TikiPrincess 0]

I find it interesting that no one is countering my arguments which clearly address some of these issues. Oh well, c'est la vie. I suggest everyone take another look at that South Park episode with the "go backs." Some of you might find it enlightening. Or not. Maybe 'cause your heads are too far up your rear ends to see any position other than your own.

[BooZker 0]

takotsu although i disagree I have to welcome you here to Trap 17 because not to often we get newbies coming here actually writing good topics and replying in good length. Thanks!

What I believe you meant was the land trade with the Indians. The Indians sold land to the English settlers. However, the settlers did take land from them. How? Through war, with armies and invasions.

Yeahhhh... I think about 90% of the time it was from war. If they didn't want to sell they would be killed and if they did sell they would have to sell acres and acres for extremely cheap. Not because the forced them to sell cheap but because the settlers did not have much. The whole reason they left was because of money and religion. Do you really think they rich people with big houses and the religion of the king would leave? They would have no reason to.

They come here, make money, and take it all back to Mexico.

Wouldn't you? You have a wife and starving children. Should you wait and make a few bucks a day or risk it coming here making money and making a good amount of money and save your children. I'm in no way saying it's OK to come here illegally and I am also for people coming here that want to stay and getting a valid license to stay, but for many they have to choose. I know for a fact if my family was suffering and I had a chance to get into America I would. Im not saying it's right though do not get me wrong. Also remember though, a lot of them stay here with their entire family and just live here like normal people and even pay taxes. A very good amount pay taxes and live here and work and the kids go to school. If they are paying taxes why does it matter?

Could it be because you have no other real valid points against illegal immigrants?

How is a country not being able to function any longer and collapsing not a vaild point? Or that the president along with
many other politcal and economic professionals have said they need them?

It amazes ME that you would sit there and try to push buttons on hot topics that are unconnected to this debate in order to contort the views of the forum members by misconstruing the facts. I know that you are playing on the people's dislike of president Bush to push them toward your side of the argument.

How is it unconnected? You say that for OUR profit the immigrants should go correct? If you really cared about higher taxes and profits and that sort of stuff should you be caring about the 1 trillion being spent on the war? So just economically which is why you have a problem with the illegal immigrants wouldnt you want to go for the big thing instead of the little amount of money. 1 trillion or how about 51 billion? I don't know if i could either spend 51 dollars rather then $1,000 then i would go with the $1,000. Wouldnt you?

My point and comparison to the war is your not looking at biggest thing. You worrying about the much much smaller amount of money when you could be looking at the mouch bigger issue. Lets not talk about killing and all that stuff if you dont want to, but it would be MORE COST EFFECTIVE to stop the war and let the immigrants work here.

ill get to the others later, but i dont have time right now haha

[takotsu 0]

TikiPrincess, I agree with you. Kids have no work ethic at all. They want to get paid for doing nothing.

While I was still in high school, I got into an argument with a man that said he was here illegally. Do you know what he told me? He said, and I quote

We're here, we're staying here, and if you don't like it, you can leave.

Can you believe that a man who broke the law to get here and refuses to try to become legal told me, a legal citizen, to leave this country?

 

Anyways, back to BooZker,

You cannot tell me that the Indians were cheated on their land sales. The value of money is not based on concrete materials. It's based on your personal idea of what it's worth. The only problem is that you need to find someone with the same sense of value of money.

The Indians had a very high value of the items being bartered. So, they thought the land was worth what they traded for it. In West Africa, not too long ago, (around the same time as the colonies) the trade ratio for salt and gold was 1:1. This is because up north, there was no gold and down south, there was no salt.

 

How is it unconnected? You say that for OUR profit the immigrants should go correct? If you really cared about higher taxes and profits and that sort of stuff should you be caring about the 1 trillion being spent on the war? So just economically which is why you have a problem with the illegal immigrants wouldnt you want to go for the big thing instead of the little amount of money. 1 trillion or how about 51 billion? I don't know if i could either spend 51 dollars rather then $1,000 then i would go with the $1,000. Wouldnt you?

I never said it was for a profit. If I implied this, I would have meant to better the country, not a financial profit.

This war is to help protect this country. Since we declared war on Afghanistan and Iraq, how many terrorist attacks have there been on America? None. Not only that, but we've eliminated one of the worst dictators on earth and several of Bin Laden's top men. If we never went to war, several thousand more Americans would be dead.

I don't want to start a debate on the war. I'd end up ranting on and I don't want to get off topic. I'd rather stick with the facts of the topic at hand.

 

Don't tell me it'd be more cost effective. Some day, the war will end. That day will end up coming before all the illegals leave. Therefore, it would be more "cost effective" to rid this country of all illegals. You have to look at the long-term problem. This being the illegals.

[Mermaid711 0]

Obviously kid, you don't know how economics in this countrie works.The truth is we as americans are lazy, and expect alot. The illegal immagrants do not expect as much, because there is a difference in the amount currency is worth in both places. Now, little bobby from america who is american wants to be payed 7.50 an hour. But little Max who is from a third world countrie will do the exact same job for 4.50 an hour. Now who are you going to hire? If I was a big C.E.O. and wanted to spend as little on a business as possible, I'd hire the cheaper guy :DAs for us paying tax dollars to send illegals to school, that's where I start to see your point. First of all, I think tax in my town is completely ridiculous, and it keeps going up, and it is going to stupid stuff like free lunch and breakfast at schools.Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Mexicans, or any Forigner for that matter, just please, if you move here, please do it the honest and legal way.