Atheist Are So God Forsaken Smug im totally serious

[truefusion 3]

So the population was 18 million. I would say thats a pretty good amount. even think of 1 million people. Just so no one gets confused i said earlier they lost 1/3, i meant to write the lost all BUT 1/3 sorry.

Although you quote your source, when i perform a search on it, i don't find the source. But glad you cleared it up.

 

[1]Did they need strict rules for laws or to not sin? Laws and sins are very different from one another. For example, a sin is to work on sunday, a law is you can't drive 60 in a school zone in America. So did they need strict rules for laws or sins? [2]If it's for sin why would it matter? Everyone has a free will right? They don't if they will be killed if they work on Sunday. I guess you CAN do the act, but then be killed. Not really a choice. By no means free will.

[1]To not sin.

[2]Because they agreed to follow them (Exodus 19:8), and God knows how stiff-necked these people are (Exodus 32:9). If you agree to follow something and accept the consequences that come with them but fail to do so because of your own will and you bear conciousness of your own actions, then it is just for you to receive the punishment stated for willingly choosing to disobey and accepting this way of living.

 

That's not why they wrote that. Maybe that was an effect of that, but it wasn't the meaning for doing it. Women were never treated equally then.

I highly doubt that there wasn't even one occasion. Another thing, just 'cause some people didn't treat them equally doesn't mean God should be blamed for (all of) it. One more thing, the Bible tells people to honor women, and to treat them as one's self (Exodus 21:10; Leviticus 19:18; Proverbs 31:30-31; Isaiah 1:17; Ephesians 5:28).

 

In this part of the Bible a girl gets raped and ten stoned for not asking for help. If she would have asked for help she wouldn't. [1]Have you ever thought she was to scared to call for help? Maybe, maybe not, [2]either way it just shows my point that women were teated horribly then and up until not many years ago they were treated like that here in America. [3]I don't understand why God, the all powerful, is so demeaning towards women if he created them. Even the name Women is a take off of Men. (Deuteronomy 22:24)

[1]Why wouldn't she scream for help? The verse provided (Deuteronomy 22:24) claims two requirements before the woman gets stoned along with the rapist. The first one is being in a town. The second is not screaming for help. There's no guarantee she would live after being raped and so go on to tell who the rapist was. Because of which, why should she be afraid to scream for help when 1) she is in a town and 2) is uncertain of whether or not she'll make it out alive after the rapist has his way with her? Did you know there are people out there who get angry for having sex with someone they wanted and forced to have sex with?

[2]No it doesn't.

[3]If you had a better case, then your claim would be justified. The woman that didn't scream for help could have enjoyed it... Or was put to death by the rapist before any intercourse occurred.

 

Your right, but why is that needed? [1]Why do you have to make one of those? [2]You dont need to hide the US's laws from children. [3]They don't make the laws so gruesome they need one set of laws written for kids and one for adults. [4]Why does they Bible have to be so nasty? [4:2]It's to scare people from sinnning, correct?

[1]I wouldn't say it was more about the laws. The Bible does mention some things about sex that can be inappropriate for children to be reading at such an age, and using terms like "made love to" would be more appropriate.

[2]Did you know many laws of the US are derived from the laws in the Bible?

[3]I am quite certain they are the same laws; although they may imply only for adults—but same goes for the laws in the US.

[4]Define "nasty". Strict?

[4:2]Breaking a law stated in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean death comes afterwards. There are many laws in there that when breaking it does not get you stoned. Fear has been known to be the best possible way to prevent someone from doing something, in this case something evil. However some people aren't afraid until after getting caught.

 

OK how about this. [1]Why did God, only God, kill 2,500,000 + people [1:2]yet the devil killed i believe 10 or 11 with gods permission? [2]Doesn't it seem it should be the other way around? I thought God was supposed to be the one giving out free will. So what if they were horrible people. [3]God should have never stepped in. [3:2]Then the devil and god make a bet? I'm sorry, but this is so far out there. [4]God kills 2 million and people pray to him and the "devil" kills less then a dozen people [4:2]and our punishment is to meet this person? [5]I wouldn't want to meet someone who has killed 2 1/2 million people. Would you?

[1]2,500,000? You must've estimated it to the nearest... Actually i have no idea to what you estimated it to, and the plus sign that comes after it, evenmoreso i am unaware of your source for such a number (it can't be from the SAB, for you can't come up with that estimation from the number provided by the SAB).

[1:2]If God allows it, the people are basically forgiven (Exodus 21:12-13). Secondly, the devil's personal plans isn't insomuch here to kill people. The devil's plan is to promote selfishness, self-indulgence and self pleasure; less care for others, more care for one's own well being; full and complete separation from God; and more of having the people kill themselves or choose an ungodly life. The devil strikes with a long-term affect, if you will.

[2]You seem to be forgetting about God's prophets. You know, the ones sent by God to give the people a second or third or fourth, etc chance that told the people to repent and change their ways before judgment comes upon them (Nehemiah 9:16-31).

[3][3:1]Wait, i'm getting mixed messages here... The former imples the time of Noah, and the latter implies the time of Job.

[4]Oh how i wish i was done with those less than 50 verses you gave me from the SAB! For i have and am explaining why they were killed, although i've implied the reasons plenty of times in this topic already.

[4:2]How is just merely meeting someone punishment? No, it's the actions that proceed that event.

[5]That would depend. Would i be struck down by them for meeting them? Or will i be sent away after meeting them? Or was i sent there to put an end to his (emphasis on the small "h") or her ways? Surely there has to be a reason.

 

Simply because i spent the first 9 years of my life believing in God in a Catholic way. I don't know as much. I just know what i had learned first hand in school every day for years and wonder why they skipped parts and so forth. They have never said God that many. They never said God put women down. The things you skim right over in the Bible is huge. [1]How about this?

When Lot was a very old man, he had sex with his daughters on two succesive nights, and both daughters became pregnant (Genesis 19:31-38). According to the Bible, Lot was a "righteous man" (2 Peter 2:8)

[1]Oh please tell me you read those verses! They explain themselves; here, you can read them yourself: Genesis 19:31-38. Even i question Christian websites' articles before promoting them—unless they're long and i get lazy.

 

They dont have to follow them, they just have to believe them. Then as they get older there belief is stronger. Why wouldn't it get stronger? Unless they were like me and spotted things that make no sense and so forth they only have two routes. 1. believe in a God or 2. Dont. Simple. Most people are not like me and most people get more hard headed to new ideas. They wont listen. [1]But at the age of 5 if you tell them to believe in a Pop-Tart monster who lives under your bed and THERE IS ONE! And you repeat this to them and tell them they will burn forever if they dont, ya, they are going to believe it.

Pop-tart! :9 The sugary, "fruit"paste-filled treat that kids wouldn't mind getting their hands on. That child may dive under the bed just by telling them there's a monster-sized pop-tart under there! But i get your point.

 

Not sure what you meant. Did you mean the video was about Hitler? It was not. Did you mean the kids might grow up to be like hitler so they tell them what hitler did was bad? Sorry i just don't understand how hitler comes into that video.

Whoops! I thought that part was a continuation of the Hilter thing. Nevermind! Didn't notice you meant about the video provided by saga.

 

They are much fewer then the ones that make you go to church on sunday. Much, much smaller. Most adults just make there kids do everything to be a christian. The following also kind of replies to the other thing you stated below this statement. [1]If you tell your mom/dad you don't believe in it/him/her it's a big deal. [2]When my best friend gets mad at his parents he theatens them with becoming a Jew or something other then Catholic. If you can threaten someone like that and they get that worked up then you don't have much of much of a choice to be whatever you want to be until you move out unless you hide it. (Speaking of christians of course [3]because i grew up like that)

(Hmm, i've run out of quote tags to use. )

At the local church i go to, all the children that come to church with their families are either babies or children who are either playing with toys or are in the next room watching a movie or just talking with a friend and forgetting about everything else.

[1]Of course it's a big deal. The parents want what is best for their children. If you believe your child is going down the wrong path, of course you'd try and do something about it.

[2]By the way your friend is using his religion as a form of power, i don't think he's limiting his freewill but rather using his religion to gain more freewill or the ability to do more of what he wants.

[3]Wait, you used religion as a means to have things your way?

 

I'll get that verse TF and also i have to admit [1]you get me thinking more then anyone else in this forum. [2]What would i do without your responses! There is no one to debate with other then you  <_<

[1]I get that a lot. Only not really from people in forums, but someone else i know (a friend of a friend who became a friend).

[2]And what would i do without your topics?! You people help me with my Bible study.

[Empy 0]

Well, this topic has been going on far too long to respond to everything said, but I would like to mention one thing. We are all born an Atheist, you can then be raised to be religious, become it on your own or don't become it at all, either way, it's a choice you have to make and therefor, you can never be wrong.

[truefusion 3]

We are all born an Atheist. . .

Actually, we are all basically born agnostic. You can't be born an atheist, for a baby can't really decide things and claim it to be absolute or a fact. Just 'cause you don't bare knowledge of basically anything at that time—which in this case is the knowledge of God's existence—doesn't mean you're an atheist. You're right that it is a choice, but if prophecy gets fulfilled again, then people can end up being wrong.

[Temporary141 0]

OK first off we were cool in the shout box right? ok just my opinions remember!
[startrant]

Who goes door to door selling their religion? Not only does that beat out every Atheist rant, but it's just plain rude and intrusive. Who THREATENS non believes, wether they be Atheists or another religion, that they will go to hell? Who makes posts about Atheist to shut up? haha. Honestly though go on this board and look at the topics based upon believers who start it and Atheists? Look at the Atheist topics and how they start. Most say somewhere in there "I dont care just wondering" Rather then "You will go to hell..."?

Plus this is not the main reason. President Bush (the old one haha) once said "I do not believe Atheist should be counted as citizens" Now i am not just saying that he is the only one like this. Do you know how we feel? If you believe in Jesus, in person, we DARE not say how stupid or how we dont believe it. We will be attacked with threats of hell and, yes, violence. When was the last time you heard a Atheist going and setting fire to a Christians home? What about shooting them? Not as much as the other way around.

We as Atheists feel alone. Just as gay kids do growing up (in my opinion growing up). How black kids felt left out years ago in America. Did you know more people would vote for every type of religion, race, and sexual orientation BEFORE an Atheist? This has been concluded in many studies. We feel as though we are hated. So yes, we do get a bit edgey when you talk about your God repeatly and everyone respects you so much more then if you say i dont believe in a god or even worse, ATHEIST DUN DUN DUN! It is true.

Don't believe me? Try this. The next time your with someone you dont know to well and have not yet told them what your religious beliefs are say this "I am an Atheist" simply say that. Look at how they look at you. Listen to the completely just flat out rude questions they ask. T hey look as though your a complete moron. Then do the same thing and say about your current religion. People will respect you.

Atheist want respect is all. That's it. We have none. No Atheist campaign as that. It's litteraly called suicide. The president doesnt want to call us citizens even? The worst part about it is you are made felt ashamed of it.

[/endrant]

Christians don't go to the doors first of all. Atheists in fact get A LOT of respect. They are very mainstream. They don't want religion, but their view deals with religion, and that is self-worship. They have to force their views and don't even realize that they are very mainstream. Media, whether it's television, music, or books, they have to push the envelopes to desensitize the Christian crowd of the audience, or the neutral. I guarantee that if you are feeling alone that it is probably the lack of God in your life. I'm not saying that as a crazed Christian either, but I wasn't always saved myself and felt the same way. If there is a radical Christian, take it to them that they need to stop. But as far as I'm concerned I am seeing more Slipknot bands mainstream than a DC Talk group saying how there is more to life than just what we have now!!!

So don't give me this "we as atheists feel alone." You have no idea. You have a large majority on your side, more than you realize because a lot of the "96%" of Christians don't have an idea of why they think that there is a God or do not even know much of Gods word. We don't have bands singing "atheists are morons for not believing our God." Much like the heavy metal bands that exploit the number 666, and pentagrams, and mainstream pop/rap feeding society with sexuality and lustual things, along with shows that do the same. Anything angry or hateful from "my side" may come from a hypocrite or one without knowledge yet, I used to retort in mockery because I knew nothing when I was younger, but at the same time, people that were older and were nonbelievers used things like the internet and AIM for the efforts of ruining faith, and there are people that are known for that. I saw a report on Comcast that a company had 800 video replies on Youtube of people denouncing God. I was one that always thought "God existed" but never knew why, but now I know and understand more since then.

Here are the true facts about society today. 4% actually know God exists, while 3% actually serve God. And the majority of "Christians" misunderstand the term Christianity. A lot of "Christians" think that it's just going to church, and more think it's just what they are called because they don't have a religion such as bhuddism or anything at all.

Christians want respect as well. And neither side wants a radical view of any view. So as far as that goes we all need to work together by getting rid of the conflicts from the radicalism of any view.

No one should look at you as a moron for not believing in God, but from my perspective I would just want my friends to follow God with me because nothing has been more joyous and fulfilling than that for myself and I want to share it! And it makes sense to me, because nothing stays with you on earth, everything will go. But I believe with God that we are given the option to me more than just dust from the ground. That Gods love is unfailing, and he offers more than what the world can give because everything in the world just ends anyway.

I sit at a table at school where my "friends" found out I was a Christian and there is someone always saying how "God's an imagination" and "I hate God," and comes up with a way of mocking God. And tries disproving God trying to make me a nonbeliever. It will never happen though, so I take the challenges, and while I don't appreciate his comments that mock God, I am more than happy to share my views because I know where I stand. I know not all atheists are disrespectful, but if you find a rowdy bunch of atheists, or atheists that are hasty to say something against Christianity, and you know it, but you won't tell them you know it. Say that you are a Christian, and see what happens in a week. Maybe if you say to a Christian (a real Christian) that you are an atheist that they want you to be saved. But it is different from trying to insult. However not all are "real" and so both sides have their disrespecful people. But the point of why I mentioned this is because it is not just from "Christians." But it is from whomever is not respectful that has to be insulting.

But it is fact that a real "Christian" is definitely a minority since the majority of Christians don't even know why they believe and are quick to shake off any teachings from a church for example, and rush into immorality. The 4% and 3% (maybe even less by now) stands true officially.

And for the record I do not approve of what Bush had said. However I will go as far to say that I disrespect, the disrespectful.

Anyway I hope differences are set aside.

God bless.

[hr=noshade]

All i have to say is: Good thing you can't judge religion by its followers! Who says atheists and theists can't be friends? Who says there's no such thing as an atheist that prays to God? But i must say, mr ? impressive, your feeling of being "attacked" is nothing. And i also must say that this post of yours contradicts your own religion.

I belive in God, but I am glad I am not religious.

I bet that statement puzzles some people. [/hr][hr=noshade]

@ Truefusion. If you believe the Bible is real, how about take look at JUST in the bible. There is a lot so i put it in a spoiler box.

Hidden

PLEASE PLEASE explain to me WHY you would want children to learn this? It's gross and distasteful. It's a shame children, as i did, have to learn about murder and how it's OK as long as its in the name of God. If its not you will go to hell. So confusing and hypocritical. Maybe since Adolf Hitler was raised that he had meaning to do what he did. It makes sense, no? Seems so. God had killed everyone on the Earth with a flood. He killed, sorry, tried to kill everyone on Earth except the people he wanted and specific beliefs and... hold up... i think that sounds just like something from the Bible. Never mind probably just me. Did you know at first the Catholic Church rooted for him? Then when he started killing many people they got worried. Why would the Catholic Church EVER support murder like that? Quote FROM him:

Read the whole thing and the context may make sense to you..[/hr]

[glenstein 0]

forgot to check up on this.

 

(I chose not to quote the entire thing but leave a snapback to the post so to prevent any extra scrolling.)

 

I must say, i never said that these acts were done in the name of "atheism," i merely just stated they were done by atheists. Watermonkey's post seems to cover your post quite well, though.

Then that's game, set, match. discussion over. Atheism isn't responsible for deaths. Please don't try to have it both ways where you say you don't believe it is Atheism with a capital "A" that caused such violence and death, but still say... "hey look! atheists did this! wink wink, nudge nudge, hint hint. No! I don't mean anything by this, but still, consider this as if I am implying something about atheists and how destructive they are." Because that's cheating You probably didn't intend to do this, so I can respect that. But that's what it looked like.

 

as for Watermonkey, it is flabbergasting how beside the point every argument he ever makes continues to be... as if a defender of atheism has some sort of burden upon themself to defend Marxism and Stalinism in the same breath! They don't, and anyone who has at least taken a class on some marginally relevant topic that covered either marxism or atheism (or logic) would know that by common sense. I hate Marxism and think that Stalin was a horrible person and communism has never achieved anything good in the world. I was never defending any of that from the start. When someone in the discussion starts refuting a position that no one actually holds, it's a pretty good indication that they've already lost the argument.

 

There is nothing atheistic about advocating the control, suppression, and elimination of religion, regardless of whether an institution such as communism purports to endorse it. Stalinism was wrong because it was Stalinism, and believed that there was a fundamental right to murder, starve, deport, and brutalize people into submission to its policies. This has nothing to do with atheism. No one can make any kind of logical link between the tenets of atheism, wherever they may be said to exist in writing in any authoritative form, and some supposed advocacy of murdering those who disagree with policy.

 

If you believe Atheism deserves responsibility for any of the deaths of Stalinism/Leninism, you would have to also believe that the government would have entirely, totally halted its murderous and brutalizing ways if only the little part about religion were dropped from the Marxist doctrine (which certainly has plenty of other objectives to carry out without focusing on religion). But you've got the forced famines of non-cooperative peasants in the ukraine and around the nation. You've still got murdering of political dissidents. For pete's sake you've still got the murdering of religious leaders who could threaten the political stability of the state. The belief in overwhelming, crushing power of the state for any and all its objectives remains fully intact regardless what it thinks of atheism. Moreover, the inevitable collapse of the marxist economic structure and the suffering/death it caused alone, in isolation from political deaths, was independently to blame for a huge amount of death and failure of the economy.

 

Getting back to the original point (again, its kind of amazing how powerfully determined internet discussions are to forget what their own purpose is), it was this: A criticism of religion for perpetrating and expanding, advocating war throughout history. The response was that atheism just the same has caused these things, so the concern doesn't matter.

 

ok. stop. repeat. This was the point. the. original. point. That atheism and religion alike had been the cause of deaths. That was the point. (I am being very deliberate in repeating all this in hopes that it doesn't get sidetracked or confused). The point was that atheism and religion alike were the cause of mass deaths. But as it stands in this conversation, atheism can only shoulder direct responsibility for deaths caused by Marxism/Stalinism by absurdly illogical stretches that ignore what marxism actually is and what stalinism actually is, and that the means for achieving such policies as atheism and not atheism itself, were the cause of brutality. The belief that certain means could be used was a political philosophy totally apart from atheism.

 

In contrast, religion obviously and indisputably stands convicted of perpetrating war (one need only reference the Crusades). There is not even a slight doubt about this. Even IF atheism were to blame, religion would still stand convicted of worse, and there would be no getting out of admitting that whatsoever. Religion does this, atheism doesn't. It is a true, full-blown, important, legitimate knock against religion.

 

One more thing- we are speaking as if religious persecution accounts for the entirety of the mass deaths under the rule of Stalin. Now. There were roughly 60+ million dead because of Stalinism. There were X amount dead because of suppression of religious entities. THESE TWO ARE NOT THE SAME. I will say it again. THESE TWO THINGS.. the 60+ million dead, and the fact that X number were murdered because of religion ARE NOT THE SAME. They are TWO DIFFERENT sets of facts. Two different sets of facts. Understand? That religious leaders were murdered under Stalin, and that 60+ million died... DOES NOT MEAN that all 60+ million who died were dead because they were religious. Two different things. Surely they were alot, but it is a shame that yet another logical fallacy weedles its way in and corrupts the discussion.

 

lastly- I think sophistry more purely means, at least modernly, to use whatever facts or considerations available to further an argument, irrespective of how the closely argumentative arrangement of facts follows the actual reality. That might full well include deliberate intention to deceive, and I don't know how else to describe a wrongheaded interpretation of history, where someone runs with an argument, gets ahead of themself and assumes facts about history which simply are untrue, but doesn't stop to check because they are tripping over themselves to appear clever and prove a point. It is perfectly healthy to identify this the moment it occurs, to IMPROVE the health of debate by setting things where they belong. But then again, when the majority of your disagreement is just various complaints about civility and not on substance, it is probably another sign that you've already lost the argument.

Edited April 18, 2007 by glenstein (see edit history)

[dre 0]

I don't understand why people are so willing to kill others over religion. I'm a Christian and surprisingly enough, I'm not that into throwing grenades into my neighbors houses... Religion is religion, what people do with it is their problem, not the problem of religion. Stop blaming religion for the acts of the conquistadors because we are in no way them. These religious wars are didly squat compared to what Hitler and Stalin did to the Christians and the Jews (11 million people killed, combined). You show me any other time in history where so many people were killed in such a short period of time because of religious reasons.

 

This right here just pisses me off...

if you read the old testament.. there were times when god of abraham commanded the israelites to raid villages and kill the village people including the livestock. what kind of god is that?

Hmm if you decide you want to go out and break some laws, what do you think is going to happen? Ah yes, consequences. God is a just god; follow what he says, and you will be blessed, turn away, and you will be cursed. If you think you will be blessed for screwing around and doing anything you please, well then, I wish you luck in the remaining years of your life. BTW if you think the people God punished were innocent, they weren't.

 

 

 

The Thirty Years War, that one had 1/3 of the german population killed

Umm, no Germany in those years, sorry, they would come later. So when you say German people, you can mean as many as millions or as little as thousands. Nobody called themselves German, it was just a language. Also, religion wasn't the main reason for this, it was mainly the Habsburg dynasty struggling for power. Nobody is really sure on how many people were killed, but it's certain that the wars of the 20th century had exponential damage and losses. Edited April 27, 2007 by dre (see edit history)

[BooZker 0]

These religious wars are didly squat compared to what Hitler and Stalin did to the Christians and the Jews (11 million people killed, combined). You show me any other time in history where so many people were killed in such a short period of time because of religious reasons.

So now you are going to try to see which one is better. Who killed more? Which one was faster? Either way, religion was the cause. Religion creates evil. There is no way you can tell me otherwise. Religion gives excuse to do horrible horrible things. Buddhist are the only people who actually do not want others to believe in their religion. There is even a quote from a Buddha that goes

 

The way is not in the sky. The way is in the heart.

They don't believe in God's. They are much more advanced in their religion. I believe Christian is a very old school way of believing. Ideas are not thought out in the Bible and there is a God, which makes it REALLY old school. Buddhist believe in scientific sort of research into their religion.

 

God is a just god; follow what he says, and you will be blessed, turn away, and you will be cursed.

That is exactly my point. This crap amazes me. Christians are so forsaken smug as the post SHOULD say. Atheists don't believe this, Buddist don't believe this and Indian beliefs believe this. What even more dumb, I have never turned towards God and yet i AM blessed. I got a job at 17 that i LOVE and I am a Senior Web Developer, I have had the best parents ever (that are not religious), I have a perfect girlfriend and been going out for over a year that I met out of high school, and I graduated from high school 2 year early. Now how am i cursed? I do not believe in it at all?

 

Umm, no Germany in those years, sorry, they would come later. So when you say German people, you can mean as many as millions or as little as thousands. Nobody called themselves German, it was just a language.

That's odd because my Encyclopedia, not Wikipedia, says this:

 

A religious settlement was reached only after the devastating Thirty Years War (1618-48), which was a crushing setback to the cause of German unity. The chief theater of the war, Germany was reduced to misery and starvation, lost a large part of its population, and became, as a result of the Peace of Westphalia (1648; see Westphalia, Peace of ), a loose confederation of petty principalities under the nominal suzerainty of the emperor. Depopulation brought increased competition for peasant labor and helped to perpetuate the institution of serfdom, which was declining in other parts of Western Europe.

So im not 100% sure what you are talking about. Please explain.

[bishoujo 0]

I don't believe all Atheists or all Christians preach. It is only a handful who have nothing better to do and hold very extreme views. I'm neither Atheist or Christian, but I respect Atheism and Christianity. I only despise the people (not the religion) who pester others to take on the same beliefs as themselves. They are just being pests and turning people away from their own beliefs.

Edited September 15, 2007 by bishoujo (see edit history)

[faund 0]

Everyone has the freedom of speak and no one else will get him shut up.I am an atheists. But I really agree with what you said that "I could not care less about your opinion, and you shouldn't care about mine. "People here usually not talk about religion problems. I think people who in different believe should respect each other.Every body have the rights of believe a religion or not.

Edited September 16, 2007 by faund (see edit history)

[ishan1990 0]

as an atheist living in america (arguably the most religious country in the world) and born in india (1 billion or so hindus....nuff said) it doesnt really bother me that people are religious. Sure, I do believe that religion is illogical in whatever form its in, and i would like to see it completely abolished. But it really isnt such a big deal to me, do what you want, its your life. The problem with me is when religion starts affecting public policy. In America it really does, people here just dont seem to notice it because it has become such a part of the mainstream. Of course I realize that ted haggart and bill oreilly dont speak for all christians, but the policies implemented by the government are unabashedly non secular. (And may i remind you what your founding fathers intended for their new state). I do like to debate about religion, in fact its one of my hobbies, but i do not believe in forcing others to think the way i do. I like having intelligent debates about the subject. As for atheists being smug, sure there are some people who go a bit overboard but I can assure you the number of overboard atheists in america does not begin to match up with the overboard christians (its more of a numbers game here). So in summary, lets all mind our own business

[dre 0]

That's odd because my Encyclopedia, not Wikipedia...

That's odd, because multiple Google hits that aren't Wikipedia don't agree with your encyclopedia.

QUOTEA religious settlement was reached only after the devastating Thirty Years War (1618-48), which was a crushing setback to the cause of German unity. The chief theater of the war, Germany was reduced to misery and starvation, lost a large part of its population, and became, as a result of the Peace of Westphalia (1648; see Westphalia, Peace of ), a loose confederation of petty principalities under the nominal suzerainty of the emperor. Depopulation brought increased competition for peasant labor and helped to perpetuate the institution of serfdom, which was declining in other parts of Western Europe.


So I'm not 100% sure what you are talking about. Please explain.

They call it Germany so that stupid people wont have to bother with the fact that it was all just a bunch of nation states and wasn't unified at that time. Germany was unified in 1871.

QUOTEGod is a just god; follow what he says, and you will be blessed, turn away, and you will be cursed.
That is exactly my point. This crap amazes me. Christians are so forsaken smug as the post SHOULD say. Atheists don't believe this, Buddist don't believe this and Indian beliefs believe this. What even more dumb, I have never turned towards God and yet i AM blessed. I got a job at 17 that i LOVE and I am a Senior Web Developer, I have had the best parents ever (that are not religious), I have a perfect girlfriend and been going out for over a year that I met out of high school, and I graduated from high school 2 year early. Now how am i cursed? I do not believe in it at all?

Now who said your life was done?

Christians are so forsaken smug as the post SHOULD say

Alright then. I guess I have my right to have an opinion. Just don't generalize.

The problem with me is when religion starts affecting public policy.

Hey genius, America was founded by the Puritans, what do you expect? Most of Europe is secular so maybe it'd be a better place.

So now you are going to try to see which one is better. Who killed more? Which one was faster? Either way, religion was the cause.

Well, that's the cue for me to get out of a stupid and pointless argument. Apparently you're too ignorant to take another's point of view, even in secular topics. Consider me out of this "conversation". Edited October 6, 2007 by dre (see edit history)

[Carson 0]

There are always people who will go off about religion. Just because you get mad at them, doesnt mean you have get made at everyone who is an atheist, just because they are different to you. Im an atheist, and in the first post I was told to shut up because I dont know everything. I dont believe I said anything to you... Dont generalize. There are always people, religious or not, who will act like this. The majority of people don't anyway.