American Citizens Selling Out The U.s. who would have thought

[Saint_Michael 3]

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

Most people knew that the government was selling it's own equipment to make money and allies but it looks our own citizens are really helping fuel the war on terror. I am not talking about Middle eastern American's either I am referring to the rest of the American's.

Our own companies are buying parts from are own weapons and equipment and to make easy cash sell them to terrorists. It is pretty obvious from the article we have many Benedict Arnold's in our country woh rather make cash instead of protecting our country. We already knew that our own equipment was killing soldiers now we find out that our own bombs are killing them.

I am so glad I living in a country where people don't care about others and order to be rich you just have to kill someone. :P .

[Yacoby 0]

I imagine there is a huge demand for American military technology, and where there is demand, people try to supply. It is a pity it is being sold, however some people have the ability to assume that if they didn't pull the trigger, it has nothing to do with them. I can also understand why Iran wants to get its hands of spare parts, as I imagine it is feeling quite threatened by the US at present. In my opinion America isn't going to go to war with Iran any time soon (Or is would be extremely stupid to). The only thing Iran is trying to do is acquire nuclear technology. If America, a country who has used nuclear bombs to take lives has them, I don't understand why Iran can't have them.

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Yes, Saint Micheal, I think that selling arms to be used on a battlefield is wrong. I also agree that Americans selling arms to get their own people killed is beyond treachery, really - it's something far worse.However, I also think that ALL arms sales are wrong anyway, as are ALL wars and such 'legalized' killing. Isn't it time the human race moved beyond this childish nonsense they call 'war'?I think it's time people all over the world realized that we are all citizens of EARTH - time even territorial boundaries disappeared. I don't think it's ethical for a soldier to kill legally 'in the name of his country' and for a murderer to be called a criminal for doing exactly the same thing, except NOT in the name of his country. Killing is killing, period.And I don't think killing is justified, whether it's done by a Muslim jehadi or an American soldier. Who sells weapons to whom is not as important as the fact that it's time that people realized that we are all HUMAN. It's time the human race fell into step together, and started building together, instead of each trying to tear down the other's advancements. That's kind of like frogs in a well pulling each other down instead of helping each other climb out.Too idealistic a view? Perhaps you're right. However, I was trained in in the east in Ninjutsu, literally trained as an assassin (and extremely well trained, I might add), and if I can PUT ASIDE that training, and step forward and take the view that killing is wrong, that we are all brothers, then I think the rest of the world can do the same as well. To be honest, Saint Micheal, in war, people will obtain their weapons from SOMEWHERE - if the jehadis didn't get their weapons from the american contractors you speak of, they'd get it from the russians, who are extremely poor now, and would probably deal with them. I can make powerful explosives, along with detonators, from the most innocent of substances (as a matter of fact I have books of notes on this subject from the time of my training) - and I don't think this knowledge is limited to me - I'm sure the jehadis have enough experts so they could make the bombs if they couldn't buy them. Explosives and such are easy as heck to make and use, and automatic rifles and stinger missiles can be bought wholesale in the black markets of Pakistan, believe me (I've been there - as a matter of fact, I'm in India, just a little more than a hundred miles away from the Pakistani border at this very moment).The core issue is not who gets killed by what, but that WHOEVER was killed, American or Iraqi, was a brother.

[Watermonkey 0]

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

Most people knew that the government was selling it's own equipment to make money and allies but it looks our own citizens are really helping fuel the war on terror. I am not talking about Middle eastern American's either I am referring to the rest of the American's.

 

Our own companies are buying parts from are own weapons and equipment and to make easy cash sell them to terrorists. It is pretty obvious from the article we have many Benedict Arnold's in our country woh rather make cash instead of protecting our country. We already knew that our own equipment was killing soldiers now we find out that our own bombs are killing them.

 

I am so glad I living in a country where people don't care about others and order to be rich you just have to kill someone. :P .

 

Number 1: You assume your government is telling you the truth when they say Iran is nation of terrorists. Some advice for you: Always assume the government is lying to you no matter what they say, especially if it involves international politics or labeling countries friend or foe. The odds are excellent the truth is either something completely different than what they say or, at the very least, what they say only has a shade of truth but the rest is a complete lie. Iran has been America's ally more often than not throughout the past and its people are well educated, pro-western, and most of them are not practicing Muslims. The people of Iran can not be generally labeled "terrorists" any more than the people of this country. (This comes from personal experience.)

 

Number 2: How do you think wars are waged? You have to arm your opponent in order to carry out a proper war. It's helpful if you own the banks that loan money to the countries preparing to fight each other too, that way no matter who wins, you win if you own the bank. If you do some research, you'll see that in every major war in the last thousand years only one or two banks owned by just one family were responsible for arming both sides and profiting from the results. I'm not insinuating the Pentagon or any of its components is acting as a bank. Far from it. They're not incompetent either. They're accessories to the act of increasing the arms supply of a country it knows is its enemy because they couldn't care less about the rules. Rules don't apply to the Pentagon.

 

Finally: As an arms merchant, you've already thrown morality out the window. Now that you've gotten that monkey off your back you can focus on the primary goal: Making truckloads of money. Your customers qualify if they've got cash. Their names mean nothing. You have no loyalties, certainly not to any government and certainly not to international or other law. You run a criminal enterprise that other governments know about and while they don't exactly condone it, they don't go out of their way to stop you either. You're a necessary element in the whole grand scheme of things. You can sell things to people they can't because you're just one little man which makes you quick and hard to detect. They can only sell to a certain clientele because of similar reasons. They're a large organization with considerable clout with other governments and they can provide impressive demonstrations of their wares, you get the point.

 

Yours isn't an unusual reaction to news stories like the one you posted. I do it too. Never fails to amaze me how audacious those high up the military or government ladder tend to be. Their actions rarely carry any kind of consequence like what you and I would expect if we were caught doing something similar. Our lords flaunt their power and parade it in front of their subjects with impunity because the masses are hypnotized watching the football playoffs and dumbed down from the poisonous food they're forced to eat because few of them actually grow their own anymore. Dig deeper and you'll discover things they don't dare flaunt. Things that might actually wake a large portion of their listless slaves from their stupor...

 

Too idealistic a view? Perhaps you're right. However, I was trained in in the east in Ninjutsu, literally trained as an assassin (and extremely well trained, I might add),

 

What does being trained as an assassin have to do with this topic?

 

Nothing.

 

Those who talk too much, often have nothing to say.

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Those who talk too much, often have nothing to say.

Dear me, Watermonkey, in your last post, you've just talked a lot. What was that again about people who do that having nothing to say?


I stand by my views in my post, and maintain that I had a valid point. And I maintain that you ignored that point entirely. And (unlike some of us) I say it politely.

Politeness costs us nothing - I notice that some of the members of this forum who have the most posts (and I'm NOT talking of myself, rather of people with 600 posts and more) are the most polite. Rudeness borders on egotism.

Just a gentle hint. Remember,

'Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.'

Edited March 23, 2007 by jlhaslip (see edit history)

[Watermonkey 0]

Dear me, Watermonkey, in your last post, you've just talked a lot. What was that again about people who do that having nothing to say?

I stand by my views in my post, and maintain that I had a valid point. And I maintain that you ignored that point entirely. And (unlike some of us) I say it politely.

 

Politeness costs us nothing - I notice that some of the members of this forum who have the most posts (and I'm NOT talking of myself, rather of people with 600 posts and more) are the most polite. Rudeness borders on egotism.

 

Uh... You're right. I completely ignored any point you attempted to present in your post. You're also right in that politness costs us nothing, though I, again, don't see your point. Was I being rude in my post to you? Let me clarify because I obviously mis-spoke: Those who talk too much about themselves, often have nothing to talk about. In other words, no one gives a crap that you may or may not be trained in martial arts because it has nothing to do with anything relative to the topic of this thread. And I can tell you as a matter of fact that when someone is a black belt, they never never need or want to tell anyone about it because they're secure. Further, carrying a blackbelt is not unlike carrying a gun: It's an enormous responsibility and you don't want your potential enemies to know how you're armed. Please, if any of this confuses you, don't hesitate to ask me for more clarification. Now, could we get back to the meat of the issue at hand?

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

Hmm, see, I mentioned the ninjutsu thing because it was relevant to that sentence. I said there, if I can step forward and say that killing is wrong, then so can others. If you go back and look, you can see that I'm not boasting, I'm just making a point - if a man trained to kill for years can say, come, let's not kill, then maybe so can others right? That was the point. And I maintain that not only was the mention of ninjutsu relevant to that point, the point would have not been as easy to make without it.

 

You're a very intelligent man, you don't need me explaining this to you.

 

Also, respectfully, nothing I said was detrimental to any other poster on this thread. I was expressing myself. You were expressing yourself. I think we can each do that without picking at each other. You are a champion of individual freedom, in your way, I think you understand what I'm talking about here.

 

 

As a side note: As to the how a karate-ka should behave (utterly irrelevant point, incidentally) - firstly, I am not a karateka, nor a 'black-belt' in the sense that you understand - and I AM very restrained, in my ACTIONS. And I'm restrained NOT because I 'feel secure' or whatever, but because I could easily bl**dy well kill someone if I used my knowledge carelessly. So I'm very careful to handle even an attacker as 'gently' as I can.

And no, I don't care if anyone knows that I am ninja - I don't care because I AM secure. Being ninja is not at all like carrying a weapon that you have to hide - the analogy is incorrect.

 

 

No, nothing you have said confuses me (why on earth did you have to get that statement in?) - and I know that nothing I've said confuses you. We just had very different input on this subject, but to be honest I think we BOTH contributed something - I think there was real VALUE in the fact that our input WAS different.

 

Well, 'nuff said.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Yratorm, LightMage (see edit history)

[Watermonkey 0]

 

And no, I don't care if anyone knows that I am ninja - I don't care because I AM secure. Being ninja is not at all like carrying a weapon that you have to hide - the analogy is incorrect.

I know this is already boring and old, but I just can't let this pass without a comment. First, I never said you were a black belt; I was simply using a term that's easily grasped by our audience if we actually have one.

 

And here's the analogy for you plain and simple: Let's assume for sake of argument I'm an 8th degree black-belt Japanese-trained dedicated world-class student of traditional Aikido. I'm not saying I am; just let's pretend for a moment. Now I can board an aircraft and walk into Federal Court without any trouble because no one knows I'm potentially as capable as any firearm when it comes to stopping a heart from beating. If I were to get into a scuffle at a bar and my attacker ends up not getting up off the floor or if I went out looking for some action and someone ended up getting killed for it, how do you think it'd be prosecuted? I would not be treated as though I were an ordinary citizen. The prosecutor would take into account that I am a lethal weapon through my training. I'm expected to show restraint and composure in my life, to hold myself higher morally because of my martial status. I'd be thrown to the wolves and locked up for many years even if the dead bodies could be construed to have been killed in self-defense. If I'm a lethal weapon and expected to hold myself in a higher moral ground, it's no different than if I was trained and licensed to carry a concealed weapon. The only real difference, other than the range of lethality, is the gun makes a much louder noise (nothing a $C silencer won't take care of) when it goes off than a limp body hitting the ground. I can't go off half-cocked in either situation, pun intended. Furthermore, I'd suggest to you what you should already know: A trained killer is not necessarily someone who has killed. Therefore it's not a big leap for said person to dislike the prospect of killing. I'd go one step further in saying that this person should absolutely abhor and hate the idea of killing. I don't wear a sidearm and go walking to the ghetto looking for some action; hoping I'll be able to knock off a couple bad guys. Some police do that, but I'm not some police. I don't go looking for a fight in bars just so I can demonstrate to my friends how many bodies I can make fly across the room without even touching them. No one I know does either. If I ever had to kill someone to stop them from victimizing another I'd eternally begrudge that person for forcing my hand, causing me to end his life.

 

Knowing how to be an efficient killer of people, while wildly popular in some cultures, doesn't necessarily make you a killer nor does it need to mean you wake up every day hoping to break the previous day's record of dead bodies. And the opposite is true too: Certain politicians who enthsiastically send troops to their certain death couldn't kill to save their own lives yet thousands die at their command. I'm pretty sure these people actually do wake in the morning or whenever and set certain morbid goals.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Watermonkey (see edit history)