Various Religions, beliefs and conviction discussions of faith and opinions

[truefusion 3]

[1] Well I can't agree with what you say about children... From what I saw children have more 'power' then adults, because they are closer to God then any adult could dream of. Children wich are now born are here to teach our race the same as what Jesus and the other prophets tried to teach us.

This proofs for me that a lot of information is left out systematical.

Why bother to write a few books in wich, they say, most of his life was written and don't write another few books to fill up the rest? Why leave out the most important time of his life, childhood and adolesence, in wich adulthood took shape?

 

[2] Still waiting...

 

[3] Typical... To say many other prophets are false, except your own.

I know Jesus was a real prophet but that doesn't mean the rest weren't.

To me this is one of the parts wich was edited to make sure no one will listen to other prophets.

Wolf in sheep's clothing... What are we, sheep to them? To be honest, when I look around, people are sheep, blindly following whatever what is told to them. They talk about free will, but they only follow the will of the 'elites*'.

Yeah that I allready know, but I asked if that is why we only (ab)use Jesus' and Mohammed's teachings.

Those parables in the Bible and Koran can easily be misinterpreted and changed because the leaders of those religions tell their followers what it means with suggestive thinking instead of letting the followers find the meaning in their own hearts.

 

(* With 'elites' I point out to the various leaders in religions and politics)

 

[1]You mean, greater than Moses? He who witnessed God's glory, to the point where his face would shine. Also, tell about these children. I am intrigued.

You're forgetting that even children can be wicked. They're not as innocent as people say they are.

To include more for your question on Jesus's adolesence, I'm surprised you take favortism on just Jesus. Since when has the Bible needed to write about one's adolesence, to prove something?

 

[2]Well, i'ma tell you now, you're gonna keep on waiting. Cause, I, for one, will not tell you that Jesus, because He's the son of God, became "an adult in a few days".

 

[3]Typical... You talk as if i bashed every other true prophet. Prove to me where i have. "I know Jesus was a real prophet, but that doesn't mean the rest weren't." (Thanks for typing that, saved me some work).

 

Also, since when did i mention i follow these "elites" (various leaders in religions and politics). I for one do not follow politics, for it has become corrupt. The only leaders in religion that i do follow is God, and Jesus. If, they were included in your definition of "various leaders in religion".

 

If you want an answer to your question on why people (ab)use Jesus's and Mohammed's teachings, then question the ones that (ab)use the teachings of Jesus, Mohammed, and whoever else it may be. If you think I've abused them, prove it to me, and i'll take it into consideration.

Edited April 23, 2006 by truefusion (see edit history)

[MaverickFang 0]

Personaly, I think it takes guts to come on here and say "I do not believe in God." The fact of the matter is everybody believes in some form of deity. You have to make what you want of it. Its all of you radicalists that cause the problems with who believes what. Personaly, I say screw the God damned situation, because all it does is cause a loss of friends, and even more problems. Get a life, aside from telling people their wrong, because guess what, by telling them their wrong, you yourself are also wrong.

[truefusion 3]

[1]Get a life, [2]aside from telling people their wrong, because guess what, by telling them their wrong, you yourself are also wrong.

 

[1]I would not be talking to you if i didnt have a life.

 

[2]You seem to be excluding the others. We've been told that our beliefs are wrong, so, we declare otherwise. But, when that happens, we get accused of "pushing" our religion on them. Even if they started it. Many will agree when it comes to morality, what is wrong is wrong. I understand that this can go the same for us, but sometimes, it's not our fault.

[Joshua 0]

Can there ever be a forum about religion where Christians don't come along and Bible bash or spout 'wisdom' from the Bible and try to 'save' everyone. This thread was originally about religions in general and it has ended up being Christians mouthing off how sinful we are and if we only believed in Jesus, we will all be saved. Please! My soul is perfectly fine, thank you.

And for the record, Jesus was NOT without sin - he was guilty of wrath (one of the seven deadly sins for those of you playing at home).

 

I need to post to keep my site, just like you, I'm not out to insult anyone, I'm just posting on what I know best, present a different perspective, and trying to be respectful of everyone here. I'm not speaking with any hidden agenda, this stuff is always on my heart and at the forefront of my mind. I speak out of conviction, I have held the Gospel and the Bible up to years of criticism and have heavy-duty confidence in its reliability. I speak because I have the best news on planet earth for anyone. If you or anyone else doesn't want to hear it, that's fine, don't listen and if you ask me I won't bother you. Obviously it works a little differently here since this is a public board and whatever I type goes to whoever chooses to read it.

 

And the 7 deadly sins are not a Biblical concept any more then most of Catholocism's other concepts.

 

I am also a non-believer. I don't question the fact that there was a men called Jesus, I just question his divine nature. For this topic I remembered a quote from Marx (I know he isn't the most popular figure, but he really does have a point):

 

Religion is the opium of the people

 

Of course what Marx and communism didn't understand is that people do need religion, but not for the divine reason, for a more earthly reason. They need hope, they need something to believe in. Hope makes people get throught the worst circumstances. They rejected religion and of course the result is well known.

On the other hand too much believe is as good, maybe even worst, then not believing. That is I think the difference between Christianity and Islam... too little believe and too much believe.

My history teacher once told me the reason why Christianity has spread so fast throught the Roman Empire and I think he was right. The new religion was far better the their old one and not because it was real, but because it made people wait for a reward in an afterlife, not in their life as the old religion. As I seeit religion is a method of control even if it is called Christianity or Islam.

 

An interesting view, however, what about those who die for Jesus? And not merely die, but die without fighting back while forgiving their enemies and doing good to those that harm them? There are many all around the globe who fit that description and are dying even now! If it was simply about being a good person then you could control people. But what if you gain the treasures of eternity not by being a good person, but simply repenting and trusting God to save you by what Jesus already did? What if you focus more on relationship then religion? What if instead of living for God because you have to, you do it because you WANT to? What if you live for God not because someone's holding a stick over your head but because you've really experienced life transformation that has made you into a new person with new desires?

 

Hmmm it's somewhat weird how they managed to write down Jesus' life.

It starts when he was born and suddenly he is an adult! Could it be that he did some things during his adolescence (typo) and young adulthood? Or what did happen what is left out, so we don't know? Please don't give me excuses about he was the 'son' of God and was an adult in a few days, because we all are children of God and it took me 21 years to grow up

 

And another paradox, Jesus was a prophet, just like Horus, Quetzapatl, Tutankhamon, Boeddha, Krishna, Mohammed and many more... It is even thinkable that they are one and the same 'entity', why do we only (ab)use Jesus' and Mohammed's teachings? Is it becuase they used metafors instead of facts, so what they wanted to teach us could be misformed and edited to our will? Or is it because the others used facts and proof wich couldn't be changed into whatever the worldleader want us to think?

 

Whatever Jesus' early life, those who knew Him best not only accepted that He had lived sinlessly, but were willing to stake their lives on it. To find 12 men who would die for a cause is not hard, but how many ever died for a lie? But all the apostles save John died horrible deaths for the sake of their Master and even before then faced the threat of death constantly for their strivings to proclaim the Gospel. James the brother of Jesus was among them and was ready to stake his life on the fact that the fellow Son of his mother was indeed the sinless Son of God Himself! The Gospel prevailed so well because the Gospel writers could point to eyewitnesses and those who knew Jesus personally, and could verify that He was all they claimed Him to be. The apostles had such confidence in that common knowledge that Paul said even to the Roman governor that even he must know of such things, for they "were not done in a corner."

 

If Jesus was "one" with such others, why did He say He was the only way, truth, and life, and that no one can come to God the Father but by Him? (John 14:6) Jesus specifically said He was the Messiah, in other words, the culmination of thousands of years of waiting by the Jewish people and thousands of years of prophecies fulfilled. It is Him who was foretold would bring peace back to the world one day and judgement to His enemies, who would obtain forgiveness of sins for those who obeyed Him, and who would lead Israel in glorious triumph over her enemies. There are some 400 Messianic prophecies concerning Jesus, some written 1500-2000 years before He was born. Psalms 22 even gives a graphic description of the crucifixion hundreds of years before the Roman empire even existed to invent it.

 

When I first said that Jesus DID sin, I said that most likely some Christian would come along and say that it was righteous wrath and predictably a christian has. I find it fascinating that so many religions spout what you should and shouldn't do and then break those rules themselves all under the guise of righteousness or divine guidence. Just like the parents who killed their child because "God told them to". They thought they had a divine and righteous reason to commit murder. But I suppose a Christian will predictably come along and tell me that those parents weren't true Christians or they were a bit looney. Well if that's the case then what's to say that ALL Chritians aren't looney? George W. Bush said that God told him he should go to war. Sounds like the same thing as those parents, only he's ended up killing thousands of innocent people all in the name of righteousness. But hey, they were only Muslims right? (Remember the crusades?)

adriantc has a very good point. If you look at religion from a sociological/psychological point of view Religion meets some very fundamental human fears - fear of being alone (you belong to a group), fear of the unknown (with God you need not fear anything), fear of death (the afterlife) and insecurity (religious texts tell you what to do). The fact of the matter is, many people fill themselves with religious beliefs because they are fearful and insecure. Which is why the majority of religious people are poor and/or uneducated. You have a lower percentage of relious people in the rich and/or educted. That's not always they case, just proportions and percentages. Another interesting statistic is the number of people who turn to religion - many of them have had a bad life or had some traumtic experience so that they feel lost and alone, making them susceptible to the 'benefits' of religion. Christians will call it saving that person, or showing them the right path but the reality (and statistics) are they are just taking advantage of someone who at that point in time is mentally compromised and emotionally needy. It works on a large scale as well. If you have a restless or rioting population you install strict religious edicts and give people a sense of righteousness and reward for 'good' behaviour.

And as Horus pointed out, what about Jesus' adolescence?

What about the fact that so many of the Bible's stories sound exactly the same as stories that predate the Bible? e.g. The great flood and the story of Gilgamesh which predates the Old Testament by 2000 years.

The Jews spent about 60 years in Babylon where they were taught writing and written language and after leaving started on the Old Testament which as I said, has stories remarkeably similar to Babylonian ones. Looks like plagiarism.

 

Indeed we do all fall short of God's glory as Romans 3 says. The issue is not about being a good person, but being a forgiven person. There's none righteous before God, and all our righteousness is like filthy rags. It's not about being better, but admitting we're not and just trusting in Jesus to save us. As for the religious, those that want to do evil things will use whatever guise works, and religion works quite well as an excuse. That does not however mean the actions meet up with the religion. Jesus in Matthew 7 said many would come to Him in the last day claiming to be His only to be told they never knew Him. The Bible says there are many fake Christians out there! It sounds to me, though, like you're going for a straw man fallacy. Whether many emotionally compromised people or many poor people are Christians is irrelevant. Why not examine the claims themselves and the validity of them? As for the flood, there are flood legends on every liveable continent to my knowledge. If anything it should lend credence to the Bible's historicity. If it's a worldwide event, wouldn't it make sense to be known worldwide? Why assume plagiarism if the words aren't exactly the same?
Edited April 24, 2006 by Joshua (see edit history)