kasm

1. Even one person die in Iraq has no meaning at all. It brought the terrorist to Iraq. Moreover most of wounded people are also become invald people. Yesterday I saw a short film about an American solider who lost many part of his face and they doing plastic operation to him and put nose and make some musels. How many will use the wheel? 2. The matter are not messured that way. Otherwise why doctor in hospital trying to survive a person and didn't sayt how many people are dying in car accident? Then let that one Plus one. Why we see somtimes costly operation to seperate two children?. Why we make people living long time with machines and don't let them go and say how many are dying from cancer? 3. The situation will not end in Iraq and will be long long time and causualities will be as Vitenam. 4. The Shiati in Iraq are happy that the American Occupation make them in the key element of governement. The same Kurd has their seperate governement and even they don't put the iraq flag. But this wil not last long. Once their aims will be in danger they will act agins America as the sunnis do. 5. The Solution is to return the matter as was before ionvasion but this is impossiple. In life if the police charge one then they can not approve the charges , they release the accused and compensate them. America went their for wmd reason and nothing was found as the inspectors said before invasion. So America has to return the matter as it was. 6. But America removed Sadam and let him in funny trial. Also it resolved the army and that was the big mistake to start from scratch. 7. Moreve they execluded or Bath Party members to participate in the election or governement position. This make a big vacum. And the released army personnel with the Bath Part who are working now in the resistence.

Why Muslims are angry from the quotation of the Pope from Roman Emperor say?In the same time there are lot against Christianity and Jesus [even here in this forum] but people haven't demonstration for that. Before I start I give my background.: - Many time I have mentioned in the forum that I respect Judaism, Islam and Christianity and said they believe in the same God, Abraham's God.. - I have many Muslim and Jews Friends and I am sure that my Muslim friends will understand and confirm what I will say. - I am Australian from 18 years but I immigrated from Egypt. - I am Christian and Coptic not Arab [may be I called Arab by living in Arabic country or because I speaking Arabic]. But I am Copt [ the native people of Egypt before Arab invasion.i.e my ancestors were the Ancient Egyptian.. - We belong to Coptic Orthodox Church Established by St Mark..The Pope of Rome is the head of the church established by St Peter. Both St Peter and St Marks were prosecuted as all Christian in Egypt and Italy by many Emperors until The Emperor Constantine become Christian. - I finished my school in Egyptian Government school [i.e public school].. In school we taught from Koran and in the history subject in we studied: Ancient Egypt history, Islamic Egyptian history and Modern History. Now 1. In Islamic history I was taught about Islamic Conquer حتف Fatah in Arabic . They were proud that they conquer all North Africa, Syria, Philistine, Iraq and Iran [Fares] . Then Bulgaria, Serbia and other Balkan Places. Also they proud that they reached the Islamic parts of former Soviet Union [ Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Turkestan, Tajikistan, Tatars tan, Chechnya,,....]. Also they reached Mongolia , Afghanistan until the fence of China. They invaded Spain and were there about 400 years. They invaded Turkey and changed Agna Sofia Church to a mosque and changed the name of Constantine to Istanbul. They reached the Balkan. The recent war in Balkan [bosnia, Kosove ...] are the results of Turkish in Balkan. 2. Also we were taught in Egyptian Government school that when Arab invaded Egypt ,they welcomed by the native because of the Roman Prosecution so they give the Egyptian 3 options not two[they proud of that]:either convert to Islam, or pay yearly big amount of money as Tax [named Gizia in Arabic] or to be killed. I think my grand grand grand grandfathers were rich that they could continue to be Christian and not converted to Islam or killed. 3. Also I was taught that Prophet Mohamed Has send to the German king saying: "Convert to Islam to be Safe". He was old and died before any conquers. 4. In every city or suburb in Egypt [and may be in other Arabic countries] there are mosque called "Fatah Mosque". Alsol we know that one important faction in Palestinian organisation is Faith Organisation named after the Islamic Conquer. 5. Then why this problem when The Rome Pope [ I belong to Coptic Orthodox Pope of Alexandria] quoted a few sentences what said the last Roman Emperor . He and the Emperor didn't say any false. After few years from that the Roman empire in Turkey was fallen by the Islamic army.

Of course believe in God is a belief. Exactly to believe in evolution is not fact but a belief. Read my page about that and i posted here first:: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/. But that does not prevent millions of Scientist [including me] to believe in GOD too. But please don't accuse anybody believe as "Crazy" or "their mind wasn't right", or "they had brain problems". See my page: I am Scientist but I Believe in God [ http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ ] which posted in this forum last year. I don't know what picture , claims or film you talking about.?.But you have not to jump to your own conclusion and reject others observation. It is not good to consider only yours and others are nonsense. See my page at: When I saw St Mary with millions : http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ which was in this forum too. I don't think Bible was written for pleasure. From where you came with this? They do not scare me too but it is not your choice where you go after death. My ancestor "Egyptian" believed in the life after death before Christian, Muslims or Jews. The believer in God , Soul or life after death will not loose anything if your opinion is right . But the opposite is bad, non believer who will be the looser. The problem that you have changed your living location either it was you decision or your parents or grand parents. Thanks to people to open their country to you. When they greeting you with their best wishes , they don't insult you. Otherwise you have to write on your face something to let them know your attitude. That will be problem. We are trying to make Easy to you and consider it is good from them. If you can not accept that, then it is your problem. Either you to adopt this tiny requirement and if you can not then think seriously to return to the atmosphere that suit your. I don't see any insult if I say that Christian were ordered to bless even the enemies. There is difference between offending and diferentiate yourself and saying why you don't believe in religions believes in human or animals or sun as God. There is not bads that everyone think that his/her relegion is better than [not then] someone else. Otherwise why he/she contininue in this religion .

If somebody says "I will pray for you" , you have to thank him/her because he/she has intention to give you a good present (from his/her point.} and he/she is offering something nice to you. If some body says "God bless you"..it is good from him exactly as he/she say best wishes or good luck. These have not to bother you or offend you but the opposite. Your anger is not justifiable. It is not as you feel "its like everyone hates me". It is not an assumption you are Christian. Christian urged by Jesus to bless even the enemy and not to curse them. He ordered to pray for everyone even the enemies. His disciples ordered to pray to the rulers whatever they are. Because in their opinion, praying to the ruler increase the hope that they will be wiser and take good decision instead of bad ones. Even you said: "most religions have one thing in common, they believe in God" that mean word "God" is not related to the Christian only. When they bless you ,they absolutely don't know that you believe in "evolution" and "ape ancestor" or you don't believe that the earth was created in 7 days or you don't believe in Virgin's Mary or called the story of Adam and Eve is disgusting. While you criticized people for giving the best wishes to you whatever you are, you offend billions by - saying that the story of t Adam and Eve is disgusting. Bilions of Muslims, Christians and Jews are believing in the story of Adam and Eve. - Saying the bible is "a book written for entertainment" . Christian and Jews and even Muslims are believing in Bible. Koran have many stories as in Bible and is respect the Bible. - calling the Christian "just so damb pushy". God forgive you. Don't be offended by this too. You can believe as you wish and you can discuss the differences but without bad words or laughing..Now day even we know it is wrong to worship Cows, we respect Hindus When we meet them. Also we respect the feeling of the people who worship the Sun now as did the Egyptian before the heavenly religions. Even who are not believer at all or worship some historical individual as Buddha are treated with respect. Why then these all negative feelings. I think you are living where the majority are Christian and allow but welcomed all other non-Christian. But did you know how you will be and what the majority will press you if you are in Islamic Country or where pHindos or Budists. Take in mind that China is Communist country and this reduce the actions of Budhism. Do you know why India were divided to three countries. Do you know how the relations between remained Muslims and the Hindos in India?. Do you hear about the daily burning of Temples or Mosques there? Be just. Again please don't be offended by "God bless You" and don't make it complex for you. It is more than saying "best wishes."

.Let we analysis your to see how you are using commonsense. But before I start, I stress that my opinion doesn't mean I support Terrorism nor I like Saddam. I am Christian Copts not Muslim Arab. 1. You said: In fact the war on terror has created more terrorism. Iraq and Al-Qaueda were at odd. Now the terrorism were recruited and came to Iraq by hundreds. Don't say that Al-Zarquwi was living in Iraq in Saddam's time. Living in country or passing or transit THROUGH COUNTRY Doesn't mean terrorism welcomed in that Country. Take example who did 11/9 events were lived and trained in US. Is this your first commonsense? 2. You said:: What is the prove for that? This is the same as the claim of WMD. Even if it is true, why you are responsible to act on behalf of Israel? 3. You said:: What you want to say about Iranian war? Do you know that America and West were blessing that war and providing the weapons to it? The commonsense said that Saddam and Syria were at odd. So it can not transfer these WMD without prevailing that move. The matter can not determined by thought or :Likely". If CIA and other official haven't claimed that because will be another unproven facts. 4. You said:: There are international rules to not get rid from a regime just because you have problem with it. Why US didn't acted against Castro of Cuba for 50 years ?. Why US didn't Git red of Stallin, Khorochov or Breginev of Soviet Union. Why they didn't get rid of Mao of China and North Korea Regime?. Are you happy with Saudi rulers where no right of another religion but their branch of Islam and women can not licensed to drive. 5. You said: You speak about commonsense and forget that those who blow themselves is not killing themselves only but killing hiundred other. Who blow the planes in the Trade center have killed thousand of lives. In Iraq these blows are killing Iraqis and US and British and other soldiers. 6. You said about terrorists acts: : The commonsense doesn't do with "Hope" and dream and "perhaps". extremists will not end with your "hope", dream and "perhaps" 7. You said about war: : Is that"what you view things " is your sixth commonsense" You want people are dying that historian said that was to help economy.. The commonsense says that you are loosing materials, resources for unproven hypothetical economic benefit. 8. You impose your opinion in:: Is this also commonsense that anybody have to agree with your view.

Albus Dumbledore, I didn't mean any insult to u when I have mentioned your age. I was 15 one day in last year of high school learning 3 languages, Newton mechancis, electricity and evolution theory. I was in the university when I was 16 and studying very complecated mathematical theories including relativty theory, nuclear and quantum. All what I said is trhat you are still growing in your body , mind, spirit, attitude and opinion. Your body is still growing and research shows that mind also is growing till 18 of age . Many Scientists and Philosphers [e.g Russel] have changed their opinions by the time. We all are learning from the personal experience and problem we have faced. Age is not only a number. Do you debate why driving licence is after 16 of Age, election right after 18 of age, contract be avoid if one is less than the mature age , sex consents depends on age, marrige allowed for certain ages, military service is after 18 years of age, etc... You by yourself said that you wait the time when "they allow you to join the military. My wishes to you and rember me and I rember you if I will be alive in that time. You alleged that the world is safer now and ignore all the news and restrictions and events in hotels and resorts and levels of warnings. You grandma is lucky one that not mean there are thousands have gone and persons can not take a bottle of water with him. If you fellow the current affair or you asked you will find how much the tourism were affected and how flight companies complain. Then the matter have not be taken by few examples near you. Your grandpa back of Vietnam war and is healthy [you can't discover what in his side and mind] does not mean that thousands haven't return and thousands return with siciological problems. And for what reason?. This is not for protecting America.

This is to 'Albus Dumbledore' and who think about war as him but we need other people say in this matter. 1- You are less than 16 years and you only started the real life. Imagine those 19-21 years old who were killed in vain. 2- The military is not game. If you started it, you can not say I quit . Your commander has the right to kill u instantly if you do that during a battle. Military action is not democratic decision. 3- You use the word screw without necessity and you are confused about who was screw who. The matter is not about the power, weopons and technology. Even they are good in war but sometimes they fail to scratch the enemies. The topic is how US stop this wrong war . They want stop and withdraw but it can not. That was similar to what happened in Vietnam where your enemies won [by your words they screw the Americans]. The same happened where north Korea did 60 years ago. It happened too in Lebanon 20 years ago and Somalia. 4- You suggested that you and other youth to go first to the war and after return to college. Nothing will guarntee that you or they will return alive to go to colleges. Many people who are returned from the first Iraq war are still suffering from sociological disorders. Search about that. SEE on hour news program for John Leherer or CNN and see the photos for the fallen soliders. I am suffering for them and their families. 5- The topic is not "Is the war good or bad?". Normal person consider it bad. The war is not Harry Potter story. It is terrible things either you kill or be killed. 6. By the way the world become dangerous than before that called war on terrors. I have travelled the world and know how it was safe 20-30 years ago. I can not do that now. 7- So please revise your ideas about War it is not a game or venture.

US War in Iraq will not finish for ages. People who said it is call it the 2nd Vietnam war they don't mean the atmosphere, the enemies or the geography. They mean that it will be wrong to continue but it is hard to withdraw. I am really sorry for each American solider killed there. No justified reason for that. Liberation of Iraq or spreading democracy in Iraq is not enough to loose teenager lives. Why then American didn't invade the Soviet Union instead of the cold war?. Why they don't go to China where the West are alleging violating of human right. Why not go to India to give people the right in Toilets?. Why they were silent when the dectator of Pakistan seizedl the authority from a domecratic elected governement. Why they were silent for the Chilian Dectator?. Why they left Kastro of Cuba for 50 years? Shite and Kurds were welcome US because they will help them achieve their objective . A Shite government in Iraq now is like what in Iran and separate Kurdish country to the Kurd. But they will conflict with US latter. The invasion borough the terrorism there. Al Qaeda is against Saddam Regime because the regime declare socialism its objective and because it was secular. Saddam regime had nothing to do with 9/11. But now the US Occupation brought the terrorist there. So USA will not leave for ages. Moreover they produced government will be like that in Iran. . The mistakes that accomplish US in Iraq are: 1. Invading Iraqi for wrong reason. that is the WMD. They didn't listen to the inspector reports. Once they don't find any they have to leave the country and the system as was.We speak about WMD in the time of invasion not about WMD programs in any time. Nobody denies that there were programs for developing them before UN Resolution that put the restriction on arms and flies zones etc... You are not there to punish them on things may be happened during the fight against Iran and Kurds because they acting as if they with Iran towards their dream of independent country as they now with US. So please don't confuse the matter. 2. Believing what Iraqis opposition said about Iraq. They who was living in mass numbers in US and UK. wrong information gathered from hate-red opposition Iraqis in US and UK. 3. Continuing the occupation even after WMD were not found. In life if Police went and search a house for drug as example and if they couldn't find any then they will not charge for finding another reason. If they charged some people and court acquitted them. They will release them and may pay compensation. It wasn't the object to change the system. Saddam is better in human right, women right, minority right than the regimes in Jordan, Saudi, Kuwait , Pakistan and many other countries....In Saudi Arabia, women has no right to drive beside all the other rights. No one church there even for people who are working there. Other Islamic branch has no right as Wahhabi's in Saudi Arabia. But in Saddam regime were Christian, women, Kurds, Shiite in the government. 4. Continuing jailing the old regime members even after WMD were found. I don't know why the Scientists [among of them women] that alleged helping the regime in the WMD are in prisons till now. 5. Repeating wrongly that Shite is majority in Iraq. In Iraq there are Arabs and Kurds. Kurd are Sunnis. The Arab and Kurd Sunnis are the majority. That why for the third time after Saddam the president is Sunni or Kurd. 6.. Canceling the Bath Party was wrong making the democracy to the minority (who were no members in that party or were in exile. Al Quida against the Bath party since Baath has word social in his name and is secular movement. 7. Canceling the Iraqi Army was big mistake .It has bad effect of control borders , driving the army personnel to involve in the Resistance. They who knows how to take the arms from the street and use it in Resistance. They who knows how to use it effectively. It is hard to develop new army from scratch 8. Criticizing Syria that allow terrorist coming from its border. It is up to the enter ant Countries to defend their border. Syria and Al Qaeda at odd. You in USA can not close your border with Mexico and illegal immigrant about 20 millions. My analysis show that they are entering from Saudi Arabia where there are long border and El Qaueda are strong and still active in this Kingdom. But no words about Saudi Arabia. Moreover they closed eyes for people that were coming from Iran (officially or illegally). Do you know that the Sistani who is the spiritual leader to them has no Iraqis citizenship and doesn't apply to become Iraqi. 9. Criticizing Saddam about Kurd? But what Turkey is doing with Kurds is ok. Help Kurd to make their state in Iraq even in the time od the sanction against Iraq between the first and second Iraq war. You against any territories to this state from Kurdish place in Turkey just because it is your Allies and you don't want upset them a little. 10. Trail Sadam for killing 150 shiti after assesenation attempt for the head of state. Every day in average 60 Iraqis are killed. 11. Critising Sadam for abuse and they do more than him.

1. In my first reply I was critisied the media that he has confessed or identify him as killer [see what I have said]: But now I am criticizing who went to the extreme point but in another side. That he didn't do it. His dna shows that he wasn't who sexually acted on the late little girl. But that not mean that he wasn't who killl her. We need another evidence to approve that he wasn't there at all as he claimed as I said previously: 2. You agree with my opinion that :

Yes it should if it approved without reasoning doubt. I know in many countries where the death penalty exist, they executed the rapist especially when victims are children. But the problem is in countries where is no death penalty. How you deal with the matter In Australia there is one who killed more than 30 persons and he is still living. The strange of these countries where no death penalities, some judges discharge rapist for children and said the child can forget this truma. Very very strange. Also in these countries, claiming by the woman for rape can convict the person even though he is innocent. Thank God they don't executed him. So the mistake in this matter is more than the mistake of murdering case. Revenge also happened. For that I agree that in murder and rape, the death penality is applied as long as it is approved without any doubt as the case of child rape [dna can be strong evidence] or one who kill 35 in supermarket before hundereds of shopper. No justification for not applying the death penalities in such cases.

I think we are mistaken if we think that there is no life in other planets or galaxies just because of temperature and the lack of water or oxygen. Think how we die in water without artificial support and how fish die out of the water. Think how plant use CO22 and produce oxygen and we use oxygen and produce CO22. Think how polar bear are living in that atmosphere. Think how we have blood pressure and the plants has another pressure. Think how cows eat bush to produce milk and meat. Can people is living on the grass only? Can Lion and other meat-eating animals survive on grass? All this conclude that creator could create another type of life . I think all these planets and galaxies are not only for one life which is our.

May be and maybe not he is the killer. But I critised the media from the first day because: - they identified him "the killer" - they claimed he has confessed. In fact he didn't confess that he is the killer. All what he said that he was near JonBenet Ramsey and this not mean he is the killer or confession of murder. But there is the possiblity that he was and this need more effort and invstigation. If he will not be approved that he is the killer then this will strengrthn my thinking that he was near JonBenet Ramsey when she died to run away from the investigation and trorture in Tailand for another crime. The media has find a topic to fill their time or space. They could say what he said and suggest that may be he was the murderer. Then they have to wait then cover the trial if he charged after months.

1. Fighting for peace is not necessary a war. You fight for peace by writing , debating, demonstration,..... 2. You can not prove in almost that fighting result in something good. You have to see the resultant and not limit to selective points. Rarely that can be happened: - American civil war produced USA that abuses the world now day. - European have killed American natives and British Empire has killed the aboriginals of Australia. Were that good?. - Hitlers has killed millions . Was that good?. - US has killed thousands in Hiroshima Japan. Was that good? - Alexander or Napoleon have killed many of their expansion. What good were in that?. - Israel has killed thousands in Palestine or Lebanon. What were good in that?. - Demolitions of houses in Palestine or Lebanon will produce thousands of suicide bomber [believe me and remember me after 10-20 years]. - What good you will expect from children who saw their families have gone or their houses have demolished? All we know what US reacted in response of 11 September so why you expect other will accept to be destroyed without revenge. What happened in Iraq is revenge of the Bush the son for the Bush father. US allowed killing in Lebanon for a month is revenge to what happened to them in 1980s. in Lebanon. 3. By the way Arab and Jews are cousins and one day they will reconcile when they will recognize the force will not produce peace.

It is my opinion that:1- You are not guilty before this robber. He has no civil right against you. 2. But you are guilty before the state since you did something not permitted. You have the right to defend yourself in the court and may be it will not charged you. This to make surer that nobody do that against someone else and kill him/her and say that it was breaking house and may be is not the case.

When I replied to this . I didn't think it was from BooZker. Previously, I read BooZker and don't find something to reply. But Suddenley I find something to rectify. I didn't realize who wrote it. 1. I want rectify that not only Catholic talk about Adam and eve story, but all Jews, Moslems and Christian (Catholic, Orthodox, and all groups of Protestants) do. 2. I think who is still believe in flat, earth are uneducated people. Exactly as some people against immunisation which finished many diseases and we disprate to find immunisation for other current diseases [Flu, birdflue, HIV, and cancer] 3. All hypothis to how the world started are hypothis and will hypothes all time because no one can proof any. There are many theories beside this BigBang Theory. I am wondering how we will believe explanation for something assumed to be millions years ago while we are still arguing about something 8000 years ago [As Adam and Eveve Story]. This despite the facts that the geonology between Jesus and Adam can be established generation after generation. From Jesus to David. from David to Abraham and from Abraham till Noah and from Noah till Adam. 4. don't worry about the voting . it is nonsense. If there were no thousands are voted then all this has no meaning.

1. I will not go to discuss the street kids or homeless. You can initiate a topic for us. Only I said that while parents has no right to displines their kids, they are responsibles of the damages their kids do what in my view unjust. 2. You asked me why they call him "Moses the Black" and I answered. He was from Ethiopia then he was pure black not as the Egyptian. If you want reference I can give you but this is not our point.. In that place was many Moses and to distinguish them they use another character (the tall, the black, the fat, etc...). That was not racism. The opposite they upgrade him to become famous Saint. I give the story of "St Moses the Black" as how a murder and bandit can be transformed to be pure and saint by beliefs and religion. 3. The slaves in ancient times has no will and you see how they were treated in US until 50 years ago. How many generation was passed until they got their FREEDOM. Don't till me that if you was you break up in weeks that situation. In history not only black were slaves but the war prisoners and the conquered cities women were sold as slaves and there were market for that. Religions which influenced step by step for their freedom and equality. Islam started to liberate all slaves. Also Islam stopped killing girls babies habits among Arab before among the poor. 4. I am summarizing what Christian and sometimes the Jews believe. Whatever you agree or not. i. Christian believe that people before Jesus Crucifixion were in temporary place and they released after eliminating the original sin (Adam's sin). Jews still waiting the Messiah. ii. God is Love and mercy but also JUST. Exactly as father or the judge in Court. The flood was happened for the sin of people (that what you can read in Bible). Sodom city set in fire because there were no more than 10 persons in the city doing the God's order. Ancient Egyptian also believed on the judgment in the after death life and every has account for his first life. ii. there were many time in old testament, where God order to kill people for their sin and purify the group. Both Christian and Jews believes that were just whatever you agree or not. iv. It is not matter what I see it or you see it. But it is matter of belief of Christian , Jews and Muslim. v. People wasn't need Noah to told them about the wrong things. These were the responsibilities of all parents from generation to generation since the head of the tree (Adam & Eve). Only Noah did the Ark to save his family and samples of the other animals [that was the story]. People some times were needed prohibits or messenger to remind them. 5. You speak a lot about murderer and forget what your citizen in US are doingevery where and how they Justifying what Israel is doing. You repeat that murder is murder but don't till your people to stop doing that. Also executing the murders (I don't against) must me murder too. 6. I already agreed that marriage is human invition and defined as partenership between a male and female . No animal and no any religion contradict that so it is hypothical your question what if their relegion allow that

1. I am not Catholic and wasn't in Catholic Schools but beating students was normal on that time everywhere : who become late, who become not neat who fail spelling and of course who did wrong actions. One time a teacher of mine wanted punish all class for some reasons by biting on hand some times by a ruler. I have refused since I haven't punished before and wasn't guilty in any. The teacher made strike [entering the class without being active] and that continued for week or so until he met my father outside the school who repeat my point of view. That mean beating in school 50 years ago was normal and not only in Catholic School. The teacher-student and parent -kids relations are different now. In fact there are questions of the results with street kids and I will not discuss it here. 2. The answer for the question why St Moses the black called the black is that because he was black in colour. He sometimes called the Ethiopian because he was a slave of a government official in Egypt who dismissed him for theft and suspected murder so he became the leader of a gang of bandits in Nile Valley spreading terror and violence until his repentance and became saint. 3. Glad that you said Jesus was very nice and caring . I repeat, yes Jesus loves everyone and call him/her to purify and abide the rules. I can give you a lot of versus but I am avoiding to quote from bible when i talk to public. But sometimes I explain or say what Christians, Muslims or Jews believe since I am familiar with these three religions.. God is Love and mercy but Just. That why Christian believe that Jesus came specially from a woman to receive the punishment of Adam sin to fulfill the Justice i.e. he loves us and suffer on behalf of the humanity to fulfill justice. That why they call that salvation [it was not political salvation]. Forgiveness is after repentance in this life. 4. I glad that you by yourself said animal do not marry and that is definition of human. That why we oppose gay marriage because marriage is between man and woman. Gay people can come with other name but not marriage. 5. At last you acknowledge that that there are no animals has homosexual cohabitation If it happened it is causual and as you mentioned for showing who is dominate. Exactly for the human sometimes and somewhere. Also some countries used it as torchiering tools.

1. Hitler hadn't told anyone to believe in a God. This is another myth and confusion. 2. You said you have broken some laws. That happened because no one observed or noticed you do that. But if you know that even no one caught you you are guilty and under God judgment, You will be better. 3. Many stealing are viral and secret and haven't noticed. Most of partner cheating are secret and the local laws not criminalized it but the religion considered it bad and sin. 4. What children know is bad is result of the current values and culture which formulated by re legion one day as in USA founders did. Moreover they are influenced by peer, teacher and what they are watching in TV Programs and films . 5. In History of North Africa, there was a murderer and the leader of a gang of bandits who roamed the Nile Valley spreading terror and violence. His name was Moses. He was not convinced of himself and was not satisfied with the things he was doing, so he began to search for the one eternal God of the Universe, and often asked himself if it was the sun until he find a Coptic monk to teach him about God. So Moses confessed all his many sins at the hands of St Makar. Then he was baptized and become monk then priest. He became one of the great saints, St Moses the black. 6. St Paul previously known Saul was killing and prosecuting Christian until he met Jesus individually and converted to be St Paul the Philosopher of Christianity. 7. Simon later named by Jesus as Peter was fisherman and crowd person . He denied Jesus 3 times when Jesus in his way to be crossfire on the cross. After Jesus Resurrection and ascension, he Become St Peter who speak with languages and breached the Christianity to the Roman. 8. Hahha is must be to 'BooZker" who change things 180 degree. Who say that Jesus wasn't lovely peaceful person and oppose bi lions of Christians that believe in that.. Who asked to love enemies and pray for them. Who loves poor and sinner to call them to repents. You can deny Jesus existence but if you recognized him you have to tell what the history said and not as you think. 9. Jesus to the Christian is the savor. Christian believes that [remember you said you believe in freedom so you would never try to convert someone]. For your knowledge and not for the argument because it is belief of mass of people, they believe that Jesus came as the story said without father specially to die on the cross so save us from Adam sin. They believed also that Adam couldn't pay his account for his disobeying God , the Jesus who is from Adam will make the salvation and receive God Justice. They consider that Jesus is "loving person" because he was ready to die on behalf of who belief in him to receive the salvation. 10. Egyptian the origin of civilization and knowledge when they become Christian after Jesus 30 years or so by St Mark, they were ready to die for their belief. Roman Emperors before Constantine , have murdered millions of Egyptian [ the forgotten genocide ] just because they become Christian. The logic says that Egyptian wasn't naive to follow and die for nonsense. 11. I Still waiting to specific one animal has homomesual marriage.

1. There is differnce between "believing in God is logicall" and saying " that religion makes people think in an illogical way" . Read both of them more and see the difference. Of course believing in God is a belief. But that not mean a believer take non logical decisions. The oipposite can happen. 2. We don't discuss here how bad was Hitler, his acts and his plan, We debate whatever the wars were becauso of relegion and I said as examples among many examples that WW1 WW2 haven't started because of relegion. You recognise that in saying: 3. Last time you give us wikipedia and when I said give us a specific page and reminded you that this wikipedia can be edited by any one, now you said: Then why you give us unreliable reference in the first place?. Now you give us links which are the promotional advertising to the books. It was better and productive that you give us a selective example and refer to this book and in which page. This is not only for me but to all members. I and they will not go buy this books for something we are not in urgent need even though if it is exist or available now. We have not the time to read a whole book for discussing a claim. 4. Give us an example in 5-20 lines saying : "This author in the book " Title of the book" told us that he has observed that animal "X": is living in homosexual relation with same sex. Show us why he think that there are homosexual relation . What the author definition of the homosexuality? Was it dance, song, living in group or real *person* relation. Does this animal live with his same-sex partner and refuses a sexual relationship with the opposite sex.[that what we are debating now. It is guy marriage and not casual sex with the same sex in some circumstances. I don't deny existence of the homosexuality but i say it is not normal and it happen in prisons and camp , sometimes as punishment by the stronger or abusing in investigation. Even some use finger to express the insult against other. It is funny I saw in films some women's used this gesture when they are angry. 5. Everyone can publish any book and about any subjects. How many books were published Agassi's Christ. How many books has published on "existence of Shakespeare" . How many books have published on John Kennedy Murder? That it why the new scientific observation, hypothesis or theory has to be review in Scientific Journal or Conference. 6. You describe this book as a scientific book, has the book's key points were published in scientific Journal or had discussed in scientific conference. If not then the claim that it is science is False.- The peer review in disputed matter or discovery is crucial. Scientific methods are impersonal. Any other scientist should be able to duplicate other scientist's work. When a person claims to observe something by some which others cannot observe or duplicate, that person is not doing science 7. Also falsification is essential to claim that something scientific. For a proposition to be falsifiable, it must be at least in principle possible to make an observation that would show the proposition to be false, even if that observation had not been made. For example, the proposition "All swans are white" would be falsified by observing one non-white swan. The following is quoted from : " http://www.synapses.co.uk/evolve/lec1b.html 8. The minimum requirements for scientific material was given in the ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court, 1981. Judge Overton found that science has four essential features: 9. I will give you a recent example of false publication . In January this year and in this Forum a post by Cerebral Stasis in http://forums.xisto.com/topic/32226-what-is-the-human-tail-graphical-content-the-tails-of-12-million-people/ . claimed that there are 12 million people having tail according to Dr X who was published in http://www.wildness.com/features/science/47083 .then I replied saying: During the postings in that thread, the initiator, Cerebral Stasis said: .Then I said: Then "Cerebral Stasis " posted saying: "

1. The debate point is :"has the WW2 was for religious reason?. I said and history support me it didn't. Hitler didn't start the war to kill Jews. It is in result of the war. That why I said you misplaced "cause" and "effect". I also gave examples of 20 million persons from Soviet Republics were killed and Egypt which hasn't declared war was bombed too. 2. The threat is not about Holocaust and the results of that war wasn't only the Holocaust but many suffering and disasters. The threat is not about what actions were in that war. 3. If you don't have any time to give me one example about homosexuality in the animals of the nature, then don't argue. I gave you some examples that lion has a particular space and doesn't allow another one in his space. BEE queens divide the kingdom to not allow two female in the same place. Instead of saying millions in last reply and now saying it was joke and wrote 5 lines having nothing , give me one exampled with reference by page or issue. That the logical discussion. Saying wikipedia and stop is not the answer. You have to post the url by which I visit , read and investigate. By the way for your knowledge "wikipedia" can be edited (including addition) by any one then it is not the final say. Exactly as you accused some by deleting cookies and affect the poll results. But minimum give it to me. I like to add knowledge. 4. I don't comet on the polls because it is statistically wrong (even without cheating) . It don't satisfy the rules of the statistical samples and statistical inference. That why the elections poll are mostly wrong. Morever there are things are not by the poll for example the results of the exams or the outpot of a trial

1. Has WW2 statred because Hitler want to do the holocaust?. This misplaces "cause" with "effect". Be logic. It is funny to put this as reasons for the war. Study the history. Read books and gain knowledge. 2. In WW2, 20 millions from the Soviet Union [which was Russia and other 15 Republics if you don't know]was killed. It is not only the jews were killed, Frensh, Polish and others were killed. Many countries even which didn't declared the war have suffered . For example Egypt where Athe famous Alemin Battele occured. Until now big area from western desert of Egypt full of mines and I wonder why Egpt don't seek compansation from Germany as Jews did and received. Hitler bomped Alexandria[the second city in Egypt if you need add knowledge]. 3. You find the Words "marry" , "married" and marriage in the new and old Bible and also the definition by Jesus and Moses. 4. We know that hurting people is bad because of the values developed by religions and societies that took them , the schools and ..... What about killing animals? What about Plants?. How animal survives without eating either another animals and plants. Read about how the tribes were killing one another. How the war prisiners were sold. Read about how Geneva Convention and Red Cross were established and why. Read how the nurses sucrafies their lives to help soldirs in wars and after to help African nations against diseases. 5. 3 years old knows what the parents show them and not their genes . From the attitudes of the adults, from films, etc 6. Then it is naive method to think by using "1,000,000,000,000" to convice that "Animals can be Gay too. It is not by adding 12 zeros or more you prove your idea. It is abuse of mathematics. I need one case only that "Lion" live with "lion" or male dog" hasa sexual relation with male dog". Enough for me one approved example. and not by words as all your reply did for all points.

1. This is a hypothetical question and never will happen according to voting. 2. It is wrong to think war was only for religious. WW1 and WW2 ware not for religion. 3. Alexander invasion and Jenkins Khan invasions weren't because of religion. 4. Parisian Empire and Roman Empire expansions were not for the religion. 5. Countries as we know now were formulated after wars. Even US was constituted after war. Russia also united by war. Italy formed after war. Even ancient Egypt was unified after wars. All these were not by religious motives. 6. Some wars was for ideology: Nazism, Russian Bolsheviks against Mansheviks for examples. 7. Some wars was for imperialism Remember what continuous wars were between Britain and France. 8. Some wars were for occupation , stealing wealth, securing trade. 9. The funny war was for "Opium" . Britain fought China and took Hong Kong because China forbid bringing Opium to China. 10 The only wars were for spread relegion were the invasion of Arab to many countries to spread the Islam. Also Turkey occupation to Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia. The attepts of Turky to take over Armenia and Greece. Of course this generated many wars and freedom wars as in Spain. The problems of Balkan until now was the result of that. Christianity was not spread by wars. 11. Panning Gay marriage is not only for religion issue. It is because against the nature. Many times I asked people to show me any another animal has *person* marriage. It is also out of the meaning of marriage. Gay can live to gether but is not called marriage and you can name it another name if you want. 12. The religions are the rules of ethics. What bad if they call to not kill, not rape, not lie, not steal. 13. What wrong if most of religion call for love others, help the poor, respect parents, not using your advantage at the moment (force, youth, health ...) 14. It is wrong to say that people went to America for freedom of religion. The opposite they brought catholic belief to most of the South America. In north the motive was the Gold . Don't you heard about Gold rush. Australia were originally to find place to the prisoners. 15. You have to see the big picture . Read history of the world and civilization. Religions organised the society, the family, schools, laws,..... Without it tribes killing one another. Investigate the history of civilisations and how countries formulated.

1. I Speak English. I am Australian for 17 years but my origin is Egypt. I am Copt (not Arab). Copts are the original people of Egypt before Arabs invaded Egypt. I studied English 6 years in school since I was 10 years old as a first foreign language. Then I used English in University, researching and reading Scientific papers and in travel to western countries. I speak English with my family in Australia. 2. I speak Arabic . It is my mother tongue. 3. I studied French as second foreign language and used it during my lecturing Math in one of Algerian University. 4. I studied German for reading scientific papers . 5. I speak Russian . I used it in practice since I was 5 years studying and researching there. I used it in Eastern Europe. I communicate with Russian with my Polish wife until she learned English. 6. I immigrated to Australia to unified the language for my kids. I speak in English even with my family and kids in Australia.

glamour_trash, Instead of using words rubbish and then apologised saying that was no offense, you can speak plainly and clean. You have no right to undergrade other people just because they believe another way than you. You can disagree or agree and say why that as the others do. This is the domacratic dissuction without it you could be prosecuted by the majority. Respect people who give you the right to express your opinion without insulting them that they do rubbish things.