loyal

I understand. But this does not answer the questions: -If God wanted to save lots of people, He could keep His religion alive, and many pious people would follow it. God will not save everyone because there are some who hate no matter what and deserve punishment. What is the point of Hell if everyone is going to Heaven? -God is All-Powerful. He can forgive by wishing. -Jesus was only sent to the Jews according to the Bible's gospel writers. So he only saved the Jews.

Hello Christians. Hope you are well. I have some questions: "Jesus dying on the cross is a demonstration of how much God loves us. God wants us to see that, by sacrificing Jesus on the cross, it is a demonstration of His love." This has been a puzzle to me and I would sincerely like to ask you "how"? How does allowing someone to die a demonstration of love? If I am not mistaken, didn't Jesus cry and beg to be saved according to the Bible. "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" {Matthew 27:46} If I had the power to save someone who was bleeding, crying, praying and begging to me to save him or her, I would save them. Not to save them would prove I was heartless, to save them would show I have Mercy, let alone love. Not saving Jesus only demonstrates God does not listen to our prayers, does not have mercy, not even to his prophet according to the Bible. Not to mention discrediting his prophethood to millions of Jews past present and future. Please be logical in your explanation and kindly keep in mind that God is All Powerful and does not need "blood" to forgive sins. One last question to consider in your reply, if Jesus's intention was to be a sacrifice, why would he "Beg" and "Pray" to God to be saved, and if your answer is that Jesus had a moment of weakness, than why say Jesus is 1/3 God, seeing many Christians say "Jesus is God in human form", because Jesus had the power to heal and raise people from the dead and walk on water, why then is Jesus at this moment helpless and powerless and most of all, not wanting to be sacrificed? Wouldn't the point of love from God be to have peace, wouldn't there be peace between the Jews and the Christians, past present and future be a reality if Jesus was saved from the cross as clarified in the Qur'an?? My concern is sincere, I would like to know the logic behind the thinking Sacrafice=Love. If I were in a room full of people and there was one person singled out to be sacrificed so all the other people in the room could be saved, wouldn't the loving thing be not sacrifice at all, understand that if your sin is as large as a mountain, God Created the Mountains and can remove them as well. If your sin is as deep as the Sea, God Created All the Seas in this world and the Universe and can remove them too, God loves and saved Jesus.

WindAndWater, don't finish just send

I am not over the place because i used quotes. Also what you said is what i meant. I thought i made that clear...And i was using muder as an example. Murder is considered wrong now but can be good in the future. I think religion is an opinion. What you believe in, is opinion. What is in that religion is fact. You have to either follow, not follow. That is my point. That society can not be solid while religion is. Society is always changing its views. And even YOU are displaying the typical views of society. Which is sometimes sterotyped. You say that i have been brainwashed into thinking. Well i can also say you are brainwashed into thinking it is good. As for bribes, they are a whole new issue. Actually all history books are written hundreds of years later/decades later. The sources may be primary sources but history does not study 'today'. For example no historian is truly/offically studing 9/11 even though they may be studying it in their free time. And once again you are displaying society's typical views. It is often commonly believed that science is true and religion is a load of nonsence. Well when you say that the religion's Holy Books are just history books you should be clear you are only talking about the Bible. All other scriptures are completely different. I do not want to compare religion to science because that would require a new thread. I got it from a website so it is not my theory. I wrote that down...Anyway i do not want to talk about Jesus in this thread. Though you are proably right about what you said below. Remember it is from a website not from me. I like to verify what i believe in. I was just using that as an example that Jesus was not sinless. Please like i said before, this is not the place to argue it. Like i said to someone else. If you really want to argue about Jesus please PM me and i will have no problems with it there. Here is not right place really... However since there are no posts here, i will respond quickly: But that is the point i am making! I said that the prophets and messengers were made before the existence of universe let alone God. Also: 'King Melchizedek of Salem was an eternal priest with no records of his beginning and ending. (Heb. 7:1-3). No Christian would admit, based upon this stated of "eternal life span", that the King of Salem was God, so how can Jesus be who claimed his existence before Abraham?' It does not state an alternative. Please actually read what i typed. And this is the question i ask you again: Jesus said; "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". When Jesus was asked: "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is One Lord; And you shall LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength."

They do. If we ignore the trinity, then we are left with God the father. They worship the same God. Literally. For example arab Christians and arab Jews used the name 'Allah' for God. They still do nowadays. Muslims took the name 'Allah' and also use it for God. Muslims also agree that they worship Yahweh, which is the same God. This because Muslims believe in the Bible and so hence forth believe in Yahweh. Also Yahweh was given to Moses who is also an Islamic prophet. Yes that is true.

Oh great...warned...stupid quotes! Sigh... " Well they might be crafted...But the main purpose of the article was to convince the reader that the Qur'an has scientific miracles and therefore God exists. It is a bit boring reading through them all. And confusing. Instead the original author has presented them in a more readable fashion. Anyway please counter argue this article...if you can. I think that is true. You can cannot convince atheists that God exists because they do not want to. Yep. Never force someone. I won't. Thanks for advice. There is a new link the mod posted. Not every religion. I am not Christian but many times in the Bible when Jesus preached but the other person did not want to become his pupil, Jesus did not go after him and say "hey hey! i am the salvation! You gotta believe, man!" Usually people just make other people believe forcefully. Lol if you had even bothered to read anything about my post you would have realised i am not Christian. I know about the translating issue and so on. Interesting beliefs you have there. Hey i loved what you wrote. War is not the cause from religion. What about hitler? What about communism in russia? What about atomic bomb? This are just some examples which are not part of religion. Religions like Christianity preach forgiveness. Where is the war in that? Islam says you should never attack except in self defence. Where is the war in that? Buddhism says peace and no harm to living things. Where is the harm in that?

Taken from http://www.themodernreligion.com/ Notice from serverph: use QUOTE tags as neeed. fixed. additional quoted text removed, as embedded codes in html conflicting with IPB forum.originally copied from: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ REVIEW Xisto FORUM RULES & TOS. warning served.

It is allowed to be translated. There are several translations in book also. Wrong. Christianity does not believe God is one. This is debateable though...But i know that Islam adopts ALL of the commandsments in the Bible. See my article on my website for quotes from both books: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ yes they do! Are you telling me you went to all of the married Muslims in the 1.5 Billon population and checked?! Muslims are religious. I am not saying there are no law breakers in Islam. Yes they can. Prove this with a Quran verse. You mispelt prophet And the holy books of Islam is only the Qur'an. Not al-Bukhari! That is a man! His books however are just sayings of the prophet Muhammed, peace and blessings upon him. They are not the Holy Book! Only the Quran is considered the Holy Book. The Bible and Jewish scriptures are considered to be corrupted. Wrong yet again. The Holy Spirit in Islam is the angel Gabriel. Also Adam, peace and blessings upon him, was also created like Jesus. And Jesus did have an ordinary birth. Ordinary as in he comes out like other babies. Wrong again! Jesus is not the creater of birds! Only God is the creator of birds. God gave Jesus the ability to turn clay birds into real ones. It was never Jesus. Jesus in Islam is not the only person without sin. Lots of other prophets are out of sin. What in the world do you mean by number 7? Wrong again! Only God will judge humans. Not Jesus. Stop elevating him to God's level! Well actually there are alot of similarities but hardly any of these are true. Please correct your facts, kasm!

I agree. People need to learn to live peacefully with one another. Some states do not recognise some major religions because they do not want them to exist. They need to change their attitude. Well actually if you had read what i wrote, i said something like: Jesus said taht non-Jewish woman and people in general are equivalent to dogs. Anyway this is not the place to debate on whether Jesus was sinless or not. If you want to debate on that PM me or start a new topic and PM me the hyperlink please. I do not make snap judgements. I do not say the Bible does not stand because I do not want it to stand. It would take me quite a while and a lot of typing to explain why. Would you like me to PM you and show you why it does not stand as the Words of God anymore? God bless you all.

I never said Islam was the greater religion. I was just replying to some people's comments. But in the Middle East it is no longer like the 14th century. Arabs were beginning to go the best full length. They were extremly clever and had many scientists and so on who discovered many things. Gradually the Ottoman empire died and the Western world took over. I would not agree with the 'Bible still stands' but i agree with your comments so far. Not really the Bible that divided the Christians into sects. More the corruption. Now the Christians high in power are not actually corrupt anymore. Thank God. Also when i was talking about Jesus, i was trying to prove a point that he was not sinless.

Look i know about the Kabalah and i warn you not to know it. It is an evil thing. Even the Bible and Qur'an tells the story of how two angels were ordered to give the knowledge to the humans as a test to see if they will use it. Do not use it! Jesus was a natural person with God-given powers. He is a prophet. I warn you to stay away from Kabalah. quoted from answering-christianity: Jesus was defeated by the woman's wisdom: "A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, 'Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession. Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.' He [Jesus] answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.' The woman came and knelt before him. 'Lord, help me!' she said. He [Jesus] replied 'It is not right to take the children's [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Gentiles].' 'Yes, Lord' she said, 'but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.' Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.' And her daughter was healed from that very hour. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 15:22-28)" It's funny how Jesus supposedly in the book of man-made alterations and corruption, the New Testament, instantaneously ABROGATED his views and decision about the non-Jewish woman and people in general being equivalent to dogs when compared to the Jews. It is important to note that the woman, in this corrupted book, from the very start showed that she is a "believer" (what ever that meant back then). So it wasn't a matter of a "disbeliever" or pagan seeking Jesus' help. The woman's wisdom defeated Jesus, the so-called "Creator of the Universe"! Jesus, within a second, changed his racist and trash-mouthed views against her from being a "dog" to a human being who deserves to be helped. "I was sent ONLY to..." clearly and irrefutably means that Jesus initially claimed that he wasn't sent to other than the Jews! So what if the woman failed with Jesus?? It seems that Jesus in the corrupted book of the new testament changed his racist and filthy views only because the woman begged him. I wonder if the woman never did this and instead answered him inappropriately after he called her and all gentiles as "dogs", would the gentiles today still be considered as the Jews' dogs? Most probably yes. It doesn't take much for a racist to go back to his old habits and generalizing evil beliefs. Again, don't forget that the woman initially showed that she was a believer! Jesus rejected her only because she was a Gentile! end of quote That is why Jesus cannot be god. There are LOT of similarties, yes. Lol the biggest similarity has to be worshipping the same god. When Christians do not worship Jesus or the holy spirit, then they worship Yahweh (God) (Allah) who the Muslims also worship. And it is not really shocking that noone understands the trinity because noone understands it. They made it so complicated that it is too hard to be understood. Also the Bible is believed by Muslims to be the corrupted Word of God. The idea is that all the sins of humanity are forgiven. Too bad the guys who are dead and the guys in the future were not forgiven. That is not saying i am god. That is saying God sent him. God sent all the prophets. He saying not to be arrogant. Why would a god hide from some people?! When confronted by Jews; Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58) Perceived by the "man of extraordinary faith": This proves; a) Jesus existed before his birth. Jesus was the same entity who replied to prophet Moses when he asked his God; What was His name? What shall he say to his people? From behind the Burning Bush God replied; "I AM THAT I AM." (Exodus 3:14). Answer: a) Jesus was consecrated (anointed) by God before he was born and so was prophet Jeremiah. The Bible records, God came to prophet Jeremiah and said to him; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Jer. 1:5. God "loved" his chosen prophets before they were born. The Bible confirms; God "loved" Jesus before the foundation of the world. (Jn. 17:24). This act of loving by an entity called God, undoubtedly proves that Jesus was not God "Himself", before he was born or after he was born. Jesus was a distinctly separate entity that was "being loved" by God, records this verse for the people who are upright and open minded. King Melchizedek of Salem was an eternal priest with no records of his beginning and ending. (Heb. 7:1-3). No Christian would admit, based upon this stated of "eternal life span", that the King of Salem was God, so how can Jesus be who claimed his existence before Abraham? The entire concept is based upon a simple conjecture. In the foot notes of Exodus 3:14 the editors of K.J.V. write; "Jesus probably alluded to this name of God in John 8:58, 'Before Abraham was, I AM." The use of phrase "probably alluded" indicates; this does not happen to be an established truth or certainty. The Greek words "ego eimi" are here translated as "I Am". However, the literal translation mentioned in the marginal notes of the New American Standard Bible reads; "I have been". Study Supportive Passage: Repeating the same phrase "I am", Jesus said; "I am (he), and that I do nothing on my own; but as my Father has taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28). God of Moses had no instructor. If he had one, then that entity would be the God's mentor or boss! A question for you: Jesus said; "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". When Jesus was asked: "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is One Lord; And you shall LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." A TRUE DISCIPLE WOULD NOT DIVIDE HIS LOVE BETWEEN "LORD GOD" AND MESSIAH THAT WAS SANCTIFIED BY GOD. Jn.10:36. He can be All Good. Evil is not the opposite of good but the absence of good. And nopolean is just a man of course he could be wrong. He will come back but it depends on what you believe Yes that is entirely true! God gave us free will. We should use that free will to either accept or reject God. Peace is the solution. Peace of the soul. Peace of the mind. Peace of our society.

bad luck brad is know offically the name!

I completely agree. Lol, usual ignorance. First of all the base is not the same. To the Muslims, the base of Islam is submission to ONE God. That is Islam summoned up. Second of all the Qur'an does not say anything about bombing or committing acts of violence except in self-defence. If you want to prove me wrong please try. And it is nothing to do with time. You think people sit around twidding their thumbs all day? They have work, they have a need for food and so on. They are exactly like western people, except they make time to pray. They act religious. This is not the problem. Many Jews and Christians lived under the Ottoman empire for centuries. Just like many Muslims lived under the peacefulness for a few centuries. No, the problem is extremists. People who think they are so religious they have to break the rules to be religious. Like in Irobot, the film, the computer thought she needed to do so much good that she broke her own rules. Abrahamic religions would not agree with you except Judisiam. Christianity believes in the Torah, Old Testament, and Islam believes in the Bible as a (corrupt) Word of God. Not really. Say for example the idea of conventional current. For hundreds of years in physics, people though current flowed from positive to negative. Infact recently it turned out they were wrong. That is an example of where the older is not correct while the younger is correct.Also to make such a claim you need to know the religions and have studied them. Islam for example says that every nation recieved a prophet from God and each time more things were added. It says that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are three different versions of the same religion. It is a test from God. Hindusim used to be like Judisiam. Infact the corrupt belief that they worship idols is incorrect. A knowledgeable hindu knows that they think Brahama is only God. A slightly less knowledgeable hindu will believe idols are the way to contact Brahama. A ignorant hindu will worship idols. Strangely enough though i do not want to create a debate about it in this topic, when you take the 'a' from the end of Brahama and put it at the beginning you get Abraham. Please do not debate about this here. It does not make these books invalid. The Bible whether you believe it is the Word of God, or it is a corrupt Word of God, or it is just a book does not affect the fact that many many prophecies such as Isreal would return to their holy land have come true. Just like in the Qur'an whether you believe it is true or not, cannot affect the scientific knowledge in that Book. It is not always a point of view. Would you say murder or perhaps even rape is wrong? Becuase if you did then you would contradicting your argument. There such a thing as right and wrong but not always. I do not think religions need updating if they are from God but i completely agree with this 'how it preaches'. Ah, but society can be corrupt. For example in the united kingdowm many people think it is harmless to have a one night stand or have sex with someone before marriage. But suggest this to a true strict Christian and they will be horrified. Now i cannot say that sex before marriage because the western society as a whole does not think it is bad. Murder is bad but that may become good. It is impossible to tell someone to judge themselves by society when the society is doing exactly what their religion is saying NOT to do. Yes. [2]And those basically came from Judaism. Have a nice day. Notice from BuffaloHELP: Only 10 of the same bbcode per post. The last one was edited to "code" and the rest of quote tags are shown.

Fruedism is just a theory and philopsical thought. He can only represent the western world because he never knew the history or modern day life of the Middle Eastern world. I do not think sexuality is the only way to fully live your life. Sex is basically right there in the moment and being in the heat of the moment. Or to create offspring. I am not saying it is a useless thing. I am just saying it is not the only way to live your life. I feel my life is pretty full. Well actually you are not allowed to have sex before marriage. But if you mean dating then yeah supposed to. I do not see this as control but rather a privelge. It is hard to explain...But in a more understandable thought, being chaste allows me to fully master my mind without having my thoughts on girls. And if you need to know ANYTHING on Islam, just PM or post something on my forums at my website: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ Anyway i will PM you with info. That is the original difference yes. But now it is different. Shiites believe that only some individuals can understand the Qur'an. Sunnis believe that all can understand the Qur'an. It is not opressive. For you who has always been doing what you want, it is seems harsh. But now i realise it is good for me. For example if a child wants to eat a biscuit which only you know is poisoned, and you can only stop the child from eating, then that is what you will do. The same is with God. God knows the biscuit can look delicious and tasty but in truth would kill me. I try to follow Islam. Not looking at girls for example was hard at the beginning, but gradually the way i thought about this whole issue made it alot easier.

Hello,Me being a Muslim means certain rules apply. I am not allowed to date! You are all probaly all shocked and so on! Infact it makes me laugh .Anyway i suppose you want to know why: It is mainly because of the sex thing. Having sex while not married is quite close in the list of major sins to killing someone. Also Muslims are commanded to not look at the opposite sex. So i am not allowed to look at a girl for example and check if she is 'hot'. Anyway just wanted to see your reactions!