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Does God Exist?

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Miles

I was once Christian, and as such, at that time, I believed in God and Jesus. However, as I grew older, my faith started to disappear. Hearing about the big bang theory of creation was the first blow to my belief in god, though I still had a lot of belief left of him. Eventually I stopped going to church not long after I stopped believing in him. I am now agnostic and almost entirely atheist, and though there are small remnants of my belief in god left in my mind, most are gone. Therefor, I do not believe in god or think he exists.


kxrain

of course God really exist, if you have fate with him he exist in your heart and in your mind.


altimit

God exists as long as you believe it in. To extend that, anything can exist for you as long as you believe in it. So, who is your god?

 

It is really as simple as that.

 

Whether or not god exists for you or anyone else should be no issue; everyone is entitled to what he or she believes in. What is unfair is taking your belief system in forcing it down other people's throats. Does your god teach you to disrespect other people's beliefs? No matter who your god is, be it the Chriatian god, or if your god is Science, they tell you otherwise.

 

Here then starts the subjective part of this post.

 

I personally believe that whether or not god exists, it should not matter for me. I try to live my life knowing that if I screw up, no deity is there to rescue me from the hole I dug myself into. Believing the someone (or something) is there, watching you, assisting you, and saving you---it is very comforting; but I think that in the end, people can and should only depend on themselves, instead of idling around waiting for happenstance. I prefer to take action. I prefer to take matters in my own hands and do something to fix the problem.

 

It is the same with religion---do we really need religion to be good? Paraphrasing Einstein, wouldn't it be sad if people only do what is right because they are promised a reward after they die? What kind of a society are we in if that was the case? No. I do not believe that. Religion, I think, is only a guide, nothing more. And choosing whether you want to be in a religion or otherwise is just analogous to whether you want someone to guide you and help you get to whatever direction they are going, or you prefer to follow your own moral compass and go your own way.


srgates91

Of corse God exists!!! Even sciece proves it! For evolutionists, the Big Bang theory describes how the universe was created. There's only one major problem with that... It conflicts with Newtons Laws!!! Energy cannot be created or destroyed!!! How could the universe come from nothing??? There had to be something there for the energy to create an explosion!!! God created the earth in six days and on the seventh he rested.. Evolution is also completely impractical.. We most definately did not come from apes! If we did evolve from apes and it took millions of years to do so, then where are the fossils of the species in between the evolutions? Nine of the twelve popularly supposed hominids are actually extinct apes and not part human at all! Also, the final three supposed hominids put forth by evolutionists are actually modern human beings and not part ape at all. Therefore, all twelve of the supposed hominids can be explained as being either fully ape or fully modern human but not as something in between.
What about the giraffe? It would have been impossible for any creature to evolve into the giraffe! Since the giraffe's heart is so much bigger than it's head, there is a complex valve system in it's neck that would have had to of been in place in its "earlier evolution." The attatched photo shows what would happen if a giraffe attempted to drink water with an evolving valve system in its neck.(Caution: Graphic Picture PETA Members maynot want to view picture!)
So if thats not enough to convince any evolutionists out there that God really does exist, I suggest reading the Bible and praying because your gunna need it... ^_^ Here are some verses from the book of Genesis:

Genesis 1:1-2:3- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morningâthe first day. And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morningâthe second day. And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morningâthe third day. And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. God made two great lightsâthe greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morningâthe fourth day. And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." And there was evening, and there was morningâthe fifth day. And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundâeverything that has the breath of life in itâI give every green plant for food." And it was so. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morningâthe sixth day.Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


OpaQue

Remember your very very young age when you started discovering the world. Think about the oldest time possible of your life after you were born. From then, go ahead slowly and think about all the various incidents in your life (good or bad..) Just remember and feel those moments.Think about the technology and the changes which took place around you. Think about how people grew around you.Do this till you reach this present moment while you are reading this very text on your screen.Close your eyes and ask yourself, From the day of my birth to this present day, Everything around ME has changed (including your body & your mind). But there is one thing that has not changed yet... The observer inside you. The observer who remains unchanged in times of anger, depression, happiness etc. Who is at peace all the time regardless of your emotional state. I define this silent observer as God, who is neither good nor bad. He is the only ONE. He is out of the natures dual matrix of Yes/No, True/False, Right/Wrong...- All the books we read are mystic literatures who are trying to get you to know this observer, So different people will give you different paths to reach the One. Everyone is unique and will have his own path to realize the one. -


OpaQue

Stop putting remarks on each other and arguing about religion. We are talking if God exists and end up fighting who is right and wrong.Who/What is the One?I have explained it in previous post.What is religion?Its a guide to reach the one.Then, Why do you need so many different religions? Because, Each part of earth is different with different habitat. With the changing habitat, We need a much more optimized guide so that you can reach your destination quickly. The journey to the ONE we talk about is not an easy task. It requires a great deal of personal discipline, a good physical and mental health and a good nature. Why stress on good nature?Everything you have done till now leaves imprints in your head. An imprint which you regard as good will give you joy & enthusiasm whereas bad actions (things which you define as bad) will leave bad imprints. These things will repeat inside your head again and again. You know this. :-) I am a Hindu and these deeds are defined as Karma. I request everyone that before you post in this topic, do read your holy book, without any assumptions. I have told you the basics. Each book has its own style of introducing you to this basic truth.For for all those people who still consider God as an external entity outside your body who lives external to you... You are wrong. Science has failed and so shall you in this search for God.


jimmy89

its a bit off topic, but you can see why this is the most debated topic in the world, just on Xisto we have 15 pages on it! ^_^


Sophia The Zombie

God doesn't exist.Everything about religion sounds rediculous and illogical.The bible in itself is full of contradictions and it makes it impossible to follow.


OpaQue

God doesn't exist.Everything about religion sounds rediculous and illogical.

The bible in itself is full of contradictions and it makes it impossible to follow.


True, its filled with contradictions Because Life itself is soo complex and we are soo complex. How many times have you contradicted something which you had decided. (eg. new year resolutions.. ^_^ )

They fall under the category of mystic literatures and they should not be deciphered word by word. Its a book for you to guide you. The message it might teach to your collegue might be way different than what it told you:)

-Shree

hoopa

Wow, I should have expected that this would be a long thread. Before I get onto the actual topic of 'does god exist?', a couple of points.To everyone here who has mentioned evolution / Darwinism, has ANYONE actually read Charles Darwins Origin of Species paper? I'm in the process of reading it just because I wanted to see what the man himself thought. Interestingly one of his remarks was that while he believed that the thoery of evolution explained a lot that was not previously understood, but that it did not explain everything. Before people jump up and down and go "see, evolution doesn't work", one such example is the concept of mutation. From my understanding mutation was a concept add to biology after Darwin's time. You can see in Darwin's paper remarks at this concept, but he didn't understand what it was that allowed species to skip ahead sometimes. For those who have claimed that there is no evidence of the transitional state creatures as shown by evolution:1. Firstly, read my first comment again2. Take your hand and touch your face. You are now touching one of those transitional creatures. There are no fixed states in evolution. Thats what evolution is!!!! It's always changing!!!JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SOMETHING HAPPENS, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE ISN'T A REASON.I think no, God does not exist. I think there may be something/ some event that started everything, but I do not know what. I do not think there is some guy with a white beard (or a guy with a pitchfork) waiting for me when I die. Humans are a scared species that has just enough brains to be dangerous. What humans do not understand, they fear. I think finding a reason for something strange is just a natural reaction to things we don't understand. How else do you explain multiple religions around the world which really have no bearing on each other (Christian, Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Australian Aboriginals, Incas). Common themes in religions are birth, death, the creation of the world, natural phenonena (lightning, floods etc.). They sometime have positive aspects, such as perhaps a closer community aspect, but they must also take blame for countless deaths in history as well.For as much as we think we (humans) know, there is still mountains of concepts that we are yet to wrap our stupid heads around. I have seen comments to the effect of "it's easier to understand god created humans rather than that some rock changed into a single celled organism". I'm afraid that if people were to not ask hard questions like these, we would still think the world is flat.Lastly, I appologise if I have offended anyone. This was not my intent. I simply get frustrated when people start talking about things they do not understand ;)


MeanorDljato

to claim that god exist because we believe in him is perhaps praising the human mind a little too much... but maybe you mean that we can only understand or see god if we try to. if we are sure that good is nowhere then when we look at the world we will not see god anywhere. if we believe in him we might see everything as the result of his act of creation.i think that there are no good proofs for god, but some things can make you wonder. who created this or has it always been? are we the same after death as we were before we were born?these are only words and in themselves they explain nothing. let go of all thought and feel the presence of god.


OpaQue

to claim that god exist because we believe in him is perhaps praising the human mind a little too much... but maybe you mean that we can only understand or see god if we try to. if we are sure that good is nowhere then when we look at the world we will not see god anywhere. if we believe in him we might see everything as the result of his act of creation.i think that there are no good proofs for god, but some things can make you wonder. who created this or has it always been? are we the same after death as we were before we were born?
these are only words and in themselves they explain nothing. let go of all thought and feel the presence of god.


Right said, you don't have to even name it. Just feel your conscience. Close your eyes and imagine that you just died. You have no connection whatsoever with the world. Your role in this world is over and nothing binds you to your name. Feel every responsibility, every relationship, every expectation, every schedule, simply Everything Detached by yourself and let your mind free. Concentrate at the center of your eye brow and don't wander in thoughts but just the inner peace and your presence. Wait.. 15 mins are not yet over. .... (after 15 mins).. Feel the new You. :-)

-Shree

Sohaib1405241555

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qur’an 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.


hoopa

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qurâan 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.


I don't know anything about the Quran, but if this is true then that is pretty impressive before you put a god into the context of that sort of knowledge.

Not wanting to pick on your religion, but I think some of your logic needs expanding to make it a little more water tight.

So, some of my questions are: (some of these might be obvious, I just know nothing about the Quran):
How you know this knowledge was first stated 1400 years ago?
Has the Quran changed in the last 1400 years?
Do you know who wrote the Quran?
How can you prove God was the source of that information?

An interesting article I just read on wikipedia. I'm not going to put wikipedia as a reference,as I have no idea who put this content in, but Im guessing they know more than I do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism

Cheers,
Hoopa

OpaQue

There is simply no doubt about the existence of GOd and those who say that there is no God are just trying run away from the teachings of their religion because in almost every major religion is a concept of life after death.those who say that there is no proof of the existence of God are simply blind.Im a Muslim Alhamdolillah and I truly believe in GOD.

Im happy that people here are atleast dont believe in false gods.there are many versus in Quran which are scientifically proved.like how did the universe came into existence ?How was it formed? we all know about the big bang theory but when did we come to know abt this ? about hundred years ago, Quran mentions it fourteen hudnred years ago.Quran mentions in Surah Anbiya, Ch. 21, V. No. 30, about the Big Bang Theory. Who could have mentioned this in the Qurâan 1400 years ago?some of you say that maybe its a fluke but there are many things mentioned in the Quran.We used to think that the sun is stationary but few years backk... we came to know that its not stationary but it is rotating and revolving.Quran mentions it fourteen hundreds years ago.We did not know about the light of moon, we juzz found out that light of moon is not its own light but it is the reflected light. we came to know about the initial state of universe,about the celestial matter ....but quran mentions this fourteen hundred years ago.Quran speaks about water cycle and many other scientific things.... who could have mention this fourteen hundreds years ago... Ofcourse the God Almight.


Islam says "Our Quran has everything mentioned right from evolution to the date today".

Hinduism says "Our Vedas have scientific knowledge about everything n everything".

Bible also says how it has bought the world in existence.

 

-> So ?? .... <-

 

Spiritual masters have great thinking levels because of their years of meditation / spiritual practice. You cannot compare their intelligence. Each one of them has known "God" or realized "God" or felt "God" and have told us everything about God to the best possible extent they could. God is an experience.. just like swimming. I can teach you the moves, but you will understand and know swimming only when you follow and do it yourself.

 

Everyone says God is everywhere and inside everyone. Why?? How many of us have actually tried to search GOD within yourself. How much of you actually know yourself? When we learn to see ourselves deeply, we will be able to understand God the way it was written about in the mystic literatures (Quran, Bible etc. ) Until then, we will just keep arguing about its literal meaning like fools (or illiterate kids). :-)

 

Only then we can imagine why a great person like Jesus never complained about those who hurt him. How could one be soooo humble and modest? How many of us actually understand him? What do you think Jesus would had said when a person told him about other religions like Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism?


tudor

God may not be provable through mathematical formulae or properties of physics, but we live in an era where the evidence of an Intelligent Designer is all around us. Just look through the Hubble Telescope and peer to the edge of the massive cosmos. View the monitor of an electron-scanning microscope and delve into the intricate world of a microscopic cell. Try to comprehend the massive library of complex information inherent in the digital code that turns a fertilized egg into a human being. Study principles of quantum mechanics and investigate the world of extra-dimensionality. Review the nature of your conscience, subconscious, standards of morality, and thoughts of religion. Then, try to reconcile all of these realities with a basic theory of randomness and chaos.Based on what we know today, I truly believe that atheism (not believing in any kind of god) is a much bigger "leap of faith" than theism (believing that some kind of god exists).I asked my friend, “Have you really thought about some of the evidences for God? Or, are you presupposing a purely naturalistic world, and closing your eyes to some of the possible evidence? If I propose some observational evidence, are you even open to examining it?”My friend asked me to go on. So, here’s my attempt at some basic scientific observations that point to God: -causation. God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe and all that's in it. (The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted in everything that we see.) -order. God provides the best explanation for abstract notions such as numbers, mathematical formulae, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. (The alternative theory is that the chaotic first elements ordered themselves into complex information systems.) -design. God provides the best explanation for the absolute complexity inherent in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems. (The alternative theory is that random chance engineered apparent design.) -encoded Instructions. God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. (The alternative theory is that complex code, such as binary code running computers, can pop into existence without any kind of programming, testing and debugging process.) -irreducible Complexity. God provides the best explanation for fully functioning biological organisms, systems, and subsystems that couldn’t come about through gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary levels. (The alternative theory is that biological systems took huge, unseen leaps from simple to complex without any guided process or forward-looking instructions.) -duality. God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind). (The alternative theory is monism -- only matter exists and the human brain only appears to have a separate subconscious ability.) -morality. God provides the best explanation for the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. (The alternative theory is that unguided materialistic processes evolve higher human consciousness.)


Sohaib1405241555

@ Hoopa.thanks for your appriciation man...actually my english is not good nor I have got excellent communication skills to express what I know effectively.well... I am not a scholer but the question you posed are quite simple to answer.here I'll give you brief answers but I can refer you to some pages where you will get answers of all your questions.your first question was how we know that this knowledge was first stated in Quran.well if it is copied from some other source then that source has to be present.since there is no such source present, we have to believe in it.if we dont believe in it by saying that there must be some other source present somewhere then we will making ourselves fool.But here I would like to tell you that according to our belief, Quran is not the first reveletion from GOD.Prophet Muhammad(may peace be upon him) was not the only messenger of GOD but he was the last messenger of GOD.More than one lac twenty four thousands messengers has been sent by GOD.similerly Quran is not the only book from GOD.so maybe those fact has been previously reveled by GOD but even that is not present in any book.you asked in your second question that whether the Quran has changed or not in the last 1400 hundred years.Quran is the only relegious scripture on the face of earth which has not been changed.it is as pure as it was 1400 years ago.the reason is that Quran is not only in papers but it is in the hearts.it is the only book which is been learnt by millions of people without a single mistake.regarding your third question that who wrote the Quran, Quran is actually God's words reveled to Prophet Muhammad.The Qur’an was not revealed at one time. It was revealed over a period of 23 years in stages part by part.Im not sure but I think Umer Farooq, a companion of prophet Muhammad(PBUH) gave it a book shape.regarding your fourth question, if u saw my above reply I've already given answer of this question that no human being could write this 1400 years ago.there are many other things which proves that Quran is the word of GOD like if u read Quran you will find that it has been written in a very unique style.it has extremly unique style and is very different from other relegious scriptures.another thing which proves that it is a word of God and prophet didn't copy it from some other source is that prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) h was an illiterate and Qur’an testified in Surah Ankabut, Ch. No. 29, Verse No. 48, that those was not able to recite any book before this book was revealed, nor was thou able to transcribe it before this.


hoopa

Tudor: I must have missed something, as you seem to have failed to explain how there is any proof that anything was created by god. In just about every one of your statements, you've managed to state "god is the best explanation for...". You've listed the alternative scientific explanation, but nothing to back up exactly what "god did".

 

Best is only a relative term. Let's assume that god is the best explanation, that doesn't necessarily make it the correct explanation. If all of those scientific theories turned out to be completely true, then I'd be as surprised as you. It is the scientific process that is the important thing in uncovering what is fact, and if that fact is god then the scientific process will eventually resolve to that conclusion.

 

Sohaib: Thanks for your reply, and after doing a bit more reading about the Quran , I've become more impressed in the organisation of the Quran. There was a date around 650 AD where there was a consciouse decision to standardise the Quran. I still have to question the logic of your argument, as I think that you need to take a more objective view of things (i.e. try and step back from your religion for a few moments. I will try to show a few example of what I mean.

 

 

your first question was how we know that this knowledge was first stated in Quran.well if it is copied from some other source then that source has to be present.since there is no such source present, we have to believe in it.if we dont believe in it by saying that there must be some other source present somewhere then we will making ourselves fool.But here I would like to tell you that according to our belief, Quran is not the first reveletion from GOD.Prophet Muhammad(may peace be upon him) was not the only messenger of GOD but he was the last messenger of GOD.More than one lac twenty four thousands messengers has been sent by GOD.similerly Quran is not the only book from GOD.so maybe those fact has been previously reveled by GOD but even that is not present in any book.

a) As I put in my last post, Heliocentrism has been around for quite a while. It did not take me long to find a example that pre-dated 1400 years (about 9 BC). As you say, there may have been other recordings that pre-date Muhammad, but without evidence of that then you are not able to state that the Quran was the first to state the earth was not the center of the world.

 

 

Quran is the only relegious scripture on the face of earth which has not been changed.it is as pure as it was 1400 years ago.the reason is that Quran is not only in papers but it is in the hearts.it is the only book which is been learnt by millions of people without a single mistake.

b.) My only info on this one is from wikipedia, so I'm open to more proof if you have it. I think it is true that the Quran has not changed for 1400 years. I think it is wrong that the Quran has never changed. In order for the Quran to be standardised 1400 years ago, this means that there had to be at least 2 versions of the Quran sometime before that, and it appears that any previous incarnations have not survived the test of time. I looks like the standardisation was to bring the variations of the Quran back into line with the original Quran. So, I have no proof that those other version existed and cannot progress this argument any further. I do not question anyones faith, but I know that humans are not perfect, and quite regularly make mistakes. No proof of the originality of a document can ever be trusted based solely on the word of a human. I'm not a trusting person. I cannot prove that the big bang is real, so I can only trust people know what they are talking about. Likewise, I cannot prove that God talked to Muhammad, so I can only trust that this is correct. One will be shown to be the truth, but only with proof can that be done.

No guarantee on the info, but the source was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran

 

another thing which proves that it is a word of God and prophet didn't copy it from some other source is that prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) h was an illiterate and Qurâan testified in Surah Ankabut, Ch. No. 29, Verse No. 48, that those was not able to recite any book before this book was revealed, nor was thou able to transcribe it before this.

c) I think this means no-one was shown to have known this before they wrote the Quran? I think we covered this one in part a (i.e. there are sources pre-dating the Quran). Another interesting point is that the death of Muhammad is stated to be 632. The standardisation of the Quran was stated to be in about 650 (after Muhammad's death). I do not want to go too far into this as I understand that Muhammad is a sensative topic, but keep in mind that perhaps Muhammad has never actually seen the current version of the Quran (if it is actually different from pre 600 AD.

 

It is not my aim to disprove anything (I can disprove a lot of things), but the important thing is to provide solid objective proof. Until proof arises, then all we really have are theories (big bang, religion etc). If god is the answer, then we should remain open to that as a possibility. Science is not the answer, it is only way of discovering that answer, and that we should all be aware of the distinct possibility that we could all be totally wrong :)

 

Cheers,

Hoopa


skedad

I just wrote a post on "Does Science Answer our Questions" only a few moments ago. And I kept the respect given to the post. But this is a different post and this will be a different response. I am a Christian, and I am proud of my spiritual beliefs. I find it unfortunate for those that do not have a belief to follow. I do not go around judging others, but I also don't do enough to spread the word. I follow God, but I am still a human being walking this earth, so I am STILL IMPERFECT, and I like it like that.I do believe that God exists, but this post will never have the answers that everyone is looking for. This is not an excuse, but it is fact that if you want to know more on the life of Jesus and the existence of God, you don't go to Xisto, you go to church to find out for yourselves.But I led a life without God and it was really truly I time that I didn't know myself. I am trying to keep this post fairly simple and a bit general not to step on toes, and that is sad to think sometimes that beliefs can't always be placed on any text media without criticisms... so this is my short and sweet answer then. I just want to leave with this thought, don't bash what you don't understand... and also, there are many people who will like to give you the answers that you will be looking for. Have fun with the posts here, but it is best to keep open minds in this one!- skedad -


OpaQue

I just wrote a post on "Does Science Answer our Questions" only a few moments ago. And I kept the respect given to the post. But this is a different post and this will be a different response.
I am a Christian, and I am proud of my spiritual beliefs. I find it unfortunate for those that do not have a belief to follow. I do not go around judging others, but I also don't do enough to spread the word. I follow God, but I am still a human being walking this earth, so I am STILL IMPERFECT, and I like it like that.

I do believe that God exists, but this post will never have the answers that everyone is looking for. This is not an excuse, but it is fact that if you want to know more on the life of Jesus and the existence of God, you don't go to Xisto, you go to church to find out for yourselves.

But I led a life without God and it was really truly I time that I didn't know myself. I am trying to keep this post fairly simple and a bit general not to step on toes, and that is sad to think sometimes that beliefs can't always be placed on any text media without criticisms... so this is my short and sweet answer then.

I just want to leave with this thought, don't bash what you don't understand... and also, there are many people who will like to give you the answers that you will be looking for. Have fun with the posts here, but it is best to keep open minds in this one!

- skedad -


I agree, its more of experiencing than reading, writing or understanding.